S24o Kit Evaluation

[Justin August]

Doing the s24o thing this year. I'm wondering about my kit and what I'm missing or taking extra.

- Grand Trunk Ultralight Hammock
- Marmot Sawtooth (good to 15F)
- Caldera Cone with Fosters Keg
- GSI Soloist
- Helix Dripper
- Cheap camp mug
- Kleen Kanteen hot thermos
- KK Insulated Cold (on the bike)
- Water Bottle Squeezable
- Nalgene 32oz
- Ibex Woolies 2 3/4 tights & 1 long johns
- Darn tough socks for camp
- 2-3 upper layers (wool, polartec)
- Patagonia Nanopuff jacket
- Wool beanie
- Birkenstock clogs for camp
- Various on bike top layers

My questions are:
Will I freeze without a thermarest or similar pad in my hammock?
Rain fly?
I'm thinking of bring ramen, salami, cheese, baguette and bars/peanut butter.

I have it all except food crammed into my Carradice & Fromt Basket. I have a Tubus Tara and Ortliebs to use if need be.

Any advice for a first timer?

-Justin

[Palmer]

Hi Justin,
I have been using a hammock for 15 years and insulation under you depends on temperature. If it is very warm, the hammock cools you nicely. On the other hand, I am always cooler in a hammock vs the ground. Here in Michigan, even in summer, I have insulation. There are lots of hammock camping forums that cover this as much as we do tires, helmets, and planing.
Hope you like the hammock as much as I do.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

[Bob K.]

I've only done a bit of bike camping thus far--more backpacking--but in my estimation you're bringing way too much clothing. The weight and bulk add up quickly, and I've come back from far too many trips with unused clothing in the bottom of my backpack. I would, however, definitely add a sleeping pad.

YMMV, etc.

Bob K. in Baltimore

[Jeff Lesperance]

I just started hammock camping this past year with a Hennessy hammock, which is more of a suspended tent than a hammock, so I'm already carrying a fairly hefty shelter vs. your ultralight hammock. I've brought along my Thermarest pad all but once, and I never regretted having it, and the one time that I didn't bring it - smack in the middle of the summer in the mid-Atlantic, I felt cool, but not cold in the middle of the night. This comes with a caveat that I was using my Big Agnes sleeping bag that doesn't have any padding or insulation on the bottom, rather it has a sleeve to hold a pad, so it's more of a blanket with a pocket for a pad.

I've looked at options for adding an insulation or barrier layer to the underside of the hammock itself vs. using the Thermarest. Hennesy offers this for their hammocks and it looks like I could get away with something lighter and less bulky than a Thermarest with this style of solution.

I think I also agree with Bob's comments on clothing, particularly for an s24o. I do like comfort, but for an s24o I've gotten right with the idea that it's okay, maybe even good, to find myself uncomfortable on occasion. I was a Boy Scout in my youth and the motto of "Be Prepared" is in my DNA at this point, so it's almost a moment of self-rebellion to not pack an extra-extra pair of socks, and shirt, and pants, and... but it's nice to get by with the clothes on your back and a decent pocket knife sometimes - always have the pocket knife, and means to make coffee.

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

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[Scott Henry]

For kayak camping I will use one of the silver emergency blankets, the ones folded about the size of a deck of cards, in the hammock between the hammock and the sleeping bag.  

Cheap, easy and quick.  

My sons taught me the trick.

Scott

[Pondero]

Justin,

Your list looks a lot like mine, and my trips usually work out pretty well. I'll echo what the other guys have already said. You might want all the clothes if you anticipate a big temperature change. Sometimes I roll out with a short sleeve t-shirt, but haul long woolies, etc. for the chill of a long winter night.  But if no big temperature swings are anticipated, you can almost take no extra clothes.  Regarding the hammock insulation, I'm a Texas guys and don't tolerate cold well. So I take my thermorest pad when night temperatures are expected below 70.  I find that it works well for me down to the low 30s if I add some additional insultation protection at my shoulders and upper arms.

Sometimes I go fairly simple/minimalist with my food, and other times I'll haul some extra items and savor the cooking experience.

Have a great time!

Chris Johnson

Sanger, Texas

[GAJett]

Never done an S24O but a long time backpacker and long distance tourer.  My comments...
You don't say where you're going or the expected weather.  Has great bearing on gear selection.  My not knowing that, here I go.

- Caldera Cone with Fosters Keg

Are you experienced with this system?
 

- GSI Soloist

 Take only those pieces you will actually use.  I generally take only a single pot and lid for cooking.  For an S24O simply bag up when done and take home to clean.

- Cheap camp mug

Eat out of this, clean with baguette, then your coffee as you drink it. (I use tea) It's now clean!
 

- Kleen Kanteen hot thermos
- KK Insulated Cold (on the bike)
- Water Bottle Squeezable
- Nalgene 32oz

FOUR water bottles!??  Are you dry camping?  Why two insulated bottles.
 

- Ibex Woolies 2 3/4 tights & 1 long johns

Probably can get away with only one of these over an S24O
 

- Darn tough socks for camp

Only one pair for an S24O unless you expect to get wet feet.
 

- 2-3 upper layers (wool, polartec)

What do you mean by "upper layers"?  I follow this pattern:
* Base layer (something the equivalent of your Ibex bottoms
* Intermediate:  long sleeved camp shirt with roll-up sleeves. Nylon or poly for quick drying.
* Outer Layer:  Your Nanopuff.  I personally prefer wool or fleece (polartec).  If you go with wool or polartec, loose the Nanopuff.
* Waterproof layer (if will be really wet): Looks like the Nanopuff will handle routine mist/fog/light rain though.

- Patagonia Nanopuff jacket
- Wool beanie
- Birkenstock clogs for camp

 

- Various on bike top layers

Follow Grant and ride in what you would regularly wear off the bike (with the possible exception of undies).

A cycling jersey makes a very good base layer.
 

My questions are:
Will I freeze without a thermarest or similar pad in my hammock?

Probably.  The down will compress completely and provide essentially NO insulation.
 

Rain fly?

At an absolute minimum pull a light groundsheet over you so it doesn't slide off.  You will likely want to keep the dew off you bag.   Can make morning packing quicker.  If any chance of rain or fog I would recommend a lightweight rainfly.  (Unless camping extensively above treeline I always carry such a fly.  My whole shelter kit, with room for two, weighs less than a pound.)
Cheers,
GAJett

[Philip Kim]

when doing an s24os i tend to overpack and realize a lot of it is unnecessary. i've been paring down each time. you'll probably have to experiment with what works for you.

like others have said, i always bring a insulated pad for hammock if it's below 50 degrees or higher altitudes. you lose a lot of heat very quickly through the bottom of the hammock. i believe jeff might be talking about underquilts or downquilts, which are definitely nicer and lighter, and a bit more pricey, but if you foresee a lot of hammock camping, then i think it's worth it, as pads can move around while you sleep in the hammock and bulky to pack.

i always bring a rain fly, it doesn't weigh much, and if you get caught in unforeseen rain, it can make your night very cold and very miserable. if it's cold, i'll just set it up fairly close to my hammock, to trap some of the heat and block wind.

i usually like to bring cheese, crackers/instant oatmeal, whiskey, dried meats for dinner so i don't have to cook after riding all day. and then eggs, peppers, onions, more cheese, leftover dried meat to make omelet and coffee in the morning before heading out. i sometimes pre-cut everything.

i'm an avid coffee drinker, and found i need a lot of water to replace the diuretic effect of coffee.

i also always bring a rope, and try to hang all my food high and away from the campsite. i usually just put all my food in one bag or pannier and use that to hang up. may or may not be necessary, but just habit for me.

small dry bag for your phone and wallet!

[Patch T]

Great advice all around, but Phillip really nailed it -- over time you'll figure out what works for you and what's important to you, and part of the fun is slowly pairing down (or bulking up!) your camp kit.

That said, I almost always put a pad in my hammock.

Oh, and parachute cord.

Love

Patch in LA

[drew]

not much to add. seems like youre in a good place to start seeing what works for you. like Patch said, one of the most fun things is trying it out-seeing what works- getting rid of what doesnt work-buying new stuff to try out- repeat. 

my only note would be about hammocking in general. here in so.cal, finding a good set of trees for a hammock is pretty rare. (too much or too little distance between. too shrubby. too suspended over spiny plants. too far up a hill covered in brush).  if you're at a state campground, in a smallish designated area, even rarer to find something workable that isn't in use. ive never been able to use mine in a hiker/biker site.  i got a hammock some years ago but almost always bring a bivy or a tent because more often than not there isn't a place for a hammock.  its been one of those murphy's law things where when i bring it, there is no good placement for it, and when i don't, there are many.  i guess if youre going to more forested areas, this wouldnt be an issue. 

the issues that people are bringing up about loss of heat through the bottom echo my experiences too. even with thermarest, its kinda hard to stay on it in the hammock and some weird part of you will be hanging off and cold.

[Deacon Patrick]

Hey Justin! Awesome! You're going to learn a lot! And change what you take and why. That's the beauty of s24o's. Grin. Take what you have, don't buy anything new, and learn. It's one night. What's the forcast for the night where you are going? If it was wet and 20˚F colder could you survive the night with what you have? Than you're golden! I experimented decades ago with ultralight backpacking. I learned a lot and part of what I learned was ultralight is great if you don't mind expensive equipment getting destroyed by mother nature and then having to endure cold wet nights in the open delighted that shivering generates body heat for hours on end. Some people are fine living that close to the edge. I am not. 

I haven't read many of the responses and I'm too much of a bumpkin's simpleton to know what 3/4s of what you list is.

My experience with hammocks is that a sleeping bag is fine down to freezing, then additional layers to insulate below are needed. If windy, that threshold is higher. (this and the need for trees in the right places are why I use a tent). I don't remember where you live, so presuming you are somewhere that is at less risk of having winter hit year round? With rare exceptions in July/August, I have to be prepared for all 4 seasons on a day ride, which means I carry nearly as much on a day ride as I do on an S24O. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Justin,

There is a lot of good advice here, but for accuracy it would be most helpful to know where you plan to camp and ride. Micro climates will dictate much of what you need for where you are camping. Micro climates are determined by elevation, amount of day time sun and shade, next to water in a valley, a slight hill above settling cold air, or on a mountain. 

A few things that add some weight I see missing: headlamp, first aid kit, paracord. I assume you plan to take a spoon, camp knife, fire starter as well as stove light. 

Having no fly/tarp I can't fathom. Even if you are 100% sure it won't rain, it could still be windy. If you plan to stay warm, you need some way of keeping the majority of wind off the hammock. A sil-nylon 8x10 tarp barely weighs a pound. Stakes and cord might add 3 oz. 

I regularly camp with 2 hammockers (tried it, but I'm a tent guy). We are all in our 60s, so low metabolism and easy to feel cool at night. They both use a hammock under-quilt for nights under about 55F. If you haven't hammock camped, i recommend giving a test run in the backyard beforehand. My friends found it hard to keep a pad under them in a hammock. As you move around the pad tends to slide around. Some pads may slide more than others. YMMV. 

Have fun!

Cheers,

Bill in balmy Roswell, GA 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 12:01:53 AM UTC-5, Justin August wrote:

[William deRosset]

Dear Justin,

Comments inline.

Justin August

Doing the s24o thing this year. I'm wondering about my kit and what I'm missing or taking extra.
- Grand Trunk Ultralight Hammock

Is the hammock reasonably waterproof?

- Marmot Sawtooth (good to 15F)

Don't buy anything new, but do you plan to do a lot of deep winter camping? Is it that cold where you live year-round? You may want a sleeping pad with a hammock--they run cold.

- Caldera Cone with Fosters Keg
- GSI Soloist
- Helix Dripper
- Cheap camp mug
- Kleen Kanteen hot thermos
- KK Insulated Cold (on the bike)
- Water Bottle Squeezable
- Nalgene 32oz

Lotsa cooking equipment. Perhaps add a spoon, a water filter (a Sawyer inline is plenty), a handkerchief, and cut the pots and pans in half? I carry some heating mechanism, a pot, sometimes a lid, and a cup of I have company. Gourmets may choose differently.

- Ibex Woolies 2 3/4 tights & 1 long johns
- Darn tough socks for camp
- 2-3 upper layers (wool, polartec)
- Patagonia Nanopuff jacket

You are equipped for the Arctic, almost. Where are you going?

- Wool beanie
- Birkenstock clogs for camp

May I suggest a pair of down booties, or just the comfy shoes that brought you?

- Various on bike top layers

More clothes? Do you live in Alaska?

>Any advice for a first timer?

My most serious advice: go for it, don't over think it, bring a lighter, a small first aid kit, a space blanket, a short itinerary, your sense of humor, and enjoy.

One good friend did the CO trail race with a wool poncho, work clothes, boots, and peanut butter. He finished second, despite cracking his fork, only to disqualify himself a year later when he realized he had left the course on a long-cut.... It really is about getting out there and being in the world a bit.

It is a short outing. In the worst case, you have something amusing to look back on wistfully. You'll find your comfortable load out with a couple of trips.

I predict it will be roughly a half or a bit less of your current plan. Expect to forget something "vital" that you want, but do not turn out to need.

Eventually, I pare things down to the point that I miss something badly (or I forget my toothbrush or something), and the creature comforts start leaking back in...

Cheers,
Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

[Justin August]

I am thankful to be part of a group who knows how to critique without being critical!

Changes I have to make:
- Hammock is out (park regulations)
- Sleeping pad + Bivvy are ready

Changes I will make:
- Cut cookware in half (leaving the Fosters keg, keeping the GSI soloist)
- Drop water bottles. 1 bike, 1 nalgene?
- cut down on the clothes. I hate being cold. But I can manage a Marin night on less I guess. SWRVE modal short sleeve, IBEX spoke jersey, one extra layer and my Nanopuff. I really hate being cold. I do like dry socks so I'm bringing an extra pair for camp and night wear.

Comments
- Someone asked about the rating on the sleeping bag going down so low. It's what I bought about 17 years ago when I was going to college. My mom thought I might need it. Which is weird given how much I paid for room and board.
- I'm nursing a strain in my upper back/arm from weight lifting. I can't ride without some crazy pain up there! I'm hoping it works itself out by Saturday or you'll find me in my east oakland Backyard camping instead.

Thanks much for the feedback.

Anyone in the Bay Area want to plan any other short Friday or Saturday night overnights with this newb?

-Justin

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

+1 on the clothing, that puffy should suit u fine for the campsite (that's pretty much all I bring for extra clothes on an S240...beanie if it's below 60 overnight). The beanie will go a long way keeping you warm.

I always bring a lightweight folding saw.

throw a couple boullion cubes in your mess kit. It's nice to warm up with some broth around the campfire.

Have fun!!

[Deacon Patrick]

For context, I plan on a low of 20˚F even at the height of summer for nearly all my trips. I know it's a balmy morning when there isn't frost.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Robert Keal]

It's interesting to note that location, perhaps even more than season, dictates what we pack. 

For example, it makes a ton of sense for DP to plan for worst case scenarios given that he's camping (I'd guess, at least) at, near, or above the tree line in the Rockies. 

Also, Phillip is sure to bring rope for a bear bag, which makes sense given that he's on the East Coast (I think?) and in black bear country. My good buddy from Northern CA, on the other hand, had never even heard of a bear bag before this past summer when we went on a trip in VA. Food storage and safety around Grizzlies is an entirely different issue. (Or is it? Deacon, do you use bear bags when wild camping?)

In other words, all of our needs are different, and it's important to do research on possible "snags" you might hit given your location and the time of year. And if you are truly headed into the wilderness, ye olde Boy Scout motto, "Be prepared," most certainly applies.

On a related note, here's a winter bikepacking packlist just released by bikepacking.com, a very cool site.:

http://www.bikepacking.com/plan/winter-bikepacking-packlist/

I think they have a three-season list somewhere, as well.

Bob K. in Baltimore

[Patch T]

Once, bundled in a hammock up at Hawk Camp up above Rodeo Beach, after a sublimely sunny hot Marin Headland dirt and pavement ramble, I awoke in the middle of the night to what I first thought was moderate rain, but then realized was the incessant dripping of condensation collected on the tree branches above due to the chewable fog that had of course rolled in. And it wasn't just drip and drop here and there. It may as well have been actual rain.

I ended up curled up under a picnic table on a mound of gathered pine needles, after determining that while I could technically fit inside the critter locker, What if it latched closed and I got stuck inside? Moral is, when hammock camping in the summertime in Marin, bring a rain tarp!

Love

Patch in LA

[Deacon Patrick]

I do not use a bear bag (though I have one). As trail use climbs, that may well change. IF all users practiced clean camps, bears wouldn't get conditioned to humans = food. As it is they still stay away from humans where I go. Bear sightings (and a few mountain lion too) are regular occurrences.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Clayton.sf]

Earplugs help for that too. the inconsistent dripping on the tarp can drive one insane.

[GAJett]

Don't know what happened to my previous post (which I deleted as nothing was added).

I just wanted to celebrate the collective wisdom of this group in their generous advice to Justin.  What an incredible community and resource!
Cheers,
GAJett

[nathaniel nichols]

Justin there is an invite floating around for the Boyz on the camping trip from Sf to sam p Taylor this weekend on Feb 4. That would probably be a good place to meet some nice peeps and get ideas on others gear.

[Matt C.]

I have done a fair amount of backpacking and bike camping in the past and one trick that I have always done is to evaluate my gear when I get back.

Since you already have a list for what you are bringing, when you get home write down everything you actually used. Then if you have unused items, ask yourself why yor brought it and if you should bring it next time.

For instance: You go camping on a beautiful clear night of 50 degrees. When you go through your gear upon return you realize you didn't use a poncho, tarp, and smoothie maker. Well if the weather turned the poncho and tarp would have been nice, so keep those on the list for next time and drop the smoothie maker. Or bring an extension cord next time.

[Justin August]

Nathaniel-
That's what this is for. ;)
However my shoulder strain isn't getting better fast enough I don't think.

-J

[Mark in Beacon]

It would be totally unnecessary (and silly!) to drag along an extension cord...

[christian poppell]

Hey Justin, I just did some camping in Marin last weekend and this is what I brought:

Cookware:
Alcohol stove. Made from a 12oz Hiniekin keg can. Quite possibly the greatest thing I've ever made.
2 pots. Nesting snow peak ti. Used one for water and the other for food. I can use the larger one as a lid.
Bike water bottle
Hydroflask. I like to ride with coffee. Only downside is it doesn't keep your hands warm.
Plastic fork and spoon cause I forgot the real ones at home

Sleeping:
20° down bag. It probably got into the mid to upper thirtys in the early morning. My feet were a little cold. I figure since I comfortably sleep Ina house most nights of the year it's a pleasure to be mildly uncomfortable for a few. Makes for a better experience. Plus I enjoy the stars.
3" sleeping pad. I perfer the inflatable variety as I am a side sleeper.

Clothes:
Pants
Extra pair of wool socks cause I like a fresh pair after riding all day.
Wool sweater
Rain jacket
I rode in shorts, tee shirt, wool socks, and approach shoes. The extra pair of socks doubled over work great as gloves when your hands are frozen in the morning.

I also had a pocket knife, headlamp, Bike tool kit, and a lighter. All of this and food(except the sleeping bag and water bottle) fit in a Carradice Nelson long flap.

Try to take as little as possible. See how far you can get with what you've got. Think of it as undercamping. The most important thing is getting out there and doing it without worrying about gear. You'll have a great time!

[Mark Reimer]

Hey this is fun to see everyone's approach!

Here's what I usually pack for a summer overnighter... hope it helps. 

The Home:

- Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 Platinum tent with ground sheet. This tent is so small and light that I bring the ground sheet and rain fly no matter what. The rain fly adds a few grams of weight and packs to the size of a deck of cards, so why not?

- NeoAir inflatable matress

- Mountain Equipment Co-op -5 down bag. This bag compresses down to about the size of a small cantaloupe. 

- Inflatable pillow. hey, a good night sleep is invaluable. I need a pillow to do that. 

The Kitchen:

- Usually I bring a little MSR burner and fuel cannister, but have also used the trangia alcohol stove as well. Either way, I stuff the stove inside my GSI soloist pot. No bowls etc required. 

- My go-to meal is Pad Thai, which I partially prepare at home first. I cut up all the veggies and keep them in a zip lock bag. Pre-make the sauce, and that's in a little plastic screw-top container. All I do at camp is heat water, drop in noodles till they're read, then mix it all up together. Yum! Fast, filling, tasty. 

- Coffee stuff. helix plus a small hand grinder. Though to be honest, I often pre grind and leave the grinder at home. Basically all my kitchen supplies and half the actual food fits inside my pot.

- Snacks!

- Beers!

Clothes:

- Usually just the clothes on my back plus one long-sleeve layer for evening. I wear wool underwear and socks, usually a wool blend t-shirt, and denim cutoff shorts. My evening long sleeve layer will either be a down jacket, or a wool sweater. Don't really need anything else for an overnight. 

- Head lamp

- Two water bottles for drinking, and one for cooking. Unless I'm camping near a water supply, then just the two. 

That's it! I can easily fit that in my dual carradice camper setup without using the long flaps. The back has the tent, sleeping bag, air mattress and cooking stuff. The front is half empty, just has my jacket, snacks, a camera, maybe a rain jacket. 

I look at how I packed my first time compared to now... I probably had at LEAST double the stuff I have now. I can't even remember what I was packing, it was absurd. You definitely need way less than you first expect. 

[doc]

Call me soft, but I carry a chair.  I've got a Helinox that runs about 2 pounds, fits in the front basket with the tent, and sets up quick.  Once I get camp set up and a fire going, I like to sit, stretch out the legs, and read or talk or whatever. 

[dstein]

Mark - is your 'dual carradice camper setup' what it sounds? two carradice campers one as a saddlesack and one on the handlebars? If so how is that large bag/weight on the handlebars?

[Deacon Patrick]

Me Too! My chair goes with me wherever I go. I can deploy it simply by sitting down, wherever I want, often in places otherwise too small of lesser, greater chairs. I can sit in any position I want and even lay down. I've yet to be found without it, as it stays with me at all times and I've yet to find a place I want to sit without ground to sit upon. My chair is specially designed to build and maintain core muscle strength just by using it. Floor living is spectacular! No need for anything but the rear God gave me. Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Clayton.sf]

I have been bringing a "sit pad" as of 2016. essentially just a small piece of cutoff a thermarest. weighs almost nothing, but keeps my butt dry, warm, and cleaner than just sitting in the dirt.

enjoy!
Clayton Scott
SF, CA