Roadini at RBW

[Jim M.]

Stopped by RBW for a few small things today and got to try the proto-Roadini. Here's an album with some pics: https://goo.gl/photos/uNuwi6pGPSEJf71w5

It is a very comfortable bike to ride, as are all Rivs. 46cm chainstay on this 57cm, so it's longer than a Roadeo and shorter than Clem, etc. Rides very smooth, corners confidently, and it's easy to envision the miles easily rolling away under the wheels. When I got on, I checked the barends for shifters. Not finding any, I reached for the downtube, but what do you know, it has brifters. This proto is set up with a rapid rise XT derailer, which I like.

Interesting new fastback seat lug. Cool headbadge. Grant's shin in one of the shots. And at the end is the top secret Riv proto carbon fiber fixie, badged as a Calfee to keep it incognito.

jim m

walnut creek, ca

[Patrick Moore]

Pretty nice for a budget bike! 

Why the tigg'ing at the head tube instead of elsewhere? I suppose it has to do with the economics of building, but can someone explain how this choice affects costs?

Also: any ideas why the socketed seat tube cluster instead of some other design? Is this one for style? (Nothing wrong with that, btw.)

And I wouldn't mind that Calfee! (But would prefer my 2 Riv custom fixies.)

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[Austin B]

If that Calfee were actually a carbon fiber Riv proto, I'd have to sell my Sam out of principle.

[Orc]

So you could afford the plastic Riv?

-david parsons

[Kai Vierstra]

That seat lug is a smart step for simplifying construction across a lot of sizes. With the Clems the smaller frames had very curved seatstays whereas the largest are straight. It must've been a pain to bend all those tubes to spec, we'll probably not that big of a pain, but pain enough. With these socketed lugs, cut everything straight and braze to secure, easy peasy...
-Kai
BK NY

[Philip Kim]

Well you need two lugs for the head tube and you also have to get various sizes depending on headtube angles changing depending on sizes

[Kai Vierstra]

Isn't everything else TIG'd?
-Kai
BK NY

[Christopher Murray]

I think it looks great! I don't think it'll be competition for the Rodeo as some have speculated.

Cheers,
Chris

[Joe Bernard]

I dig it. With the steel grey paint, modernish road double drivetrain and black-center rims, it's very "Mark's Bike." I think it should have a small decal on the inside of the left chainstay that says that :-)

[Belopsky]

Pretty bike. Love the headbadge.

As always, 0 need for me..

46cm chainstays? wo.

[Eamon Nordquist]

I love it. The headbadge is the bee's knees as well.

[Grant @ Rivendell]

Flyer has more information. TIG-welding saves tremendous costs and allows the $800 (or so) price...but we can't do all-tig (google Rudy Altig, see if he comes up)..so we have our crown and the new seat lug. The parts on the prototype were "things we had laying around" for the most part--far more that than an indication of new directions or how we'll spec' it. The idea was (as Flyer sez) to offer a Mod and Trad kit, but we already know we'll offer some kits as starting points, with unlimited flexibility to personalize. We'll be happy to HELP you pick. A "Mark's bike" might not have any tig and would likely have shorter chainstays...but Mark does like the bike, and 'twas he who nixed the kixtand plate. I'll still put a kixtand on mine,thogh--with the Pletscher Putty Pad thing we sell, to avoid chainstay hurt.
To keep super abreast of the Roadini, you gotta sign up on the list listed on Flyer. Roman made the lion on the badge! Olivier did the decals.

[Michael Cambron]

The socketed seat tube lug can be standard across various frame sizes so long as the seat tube angle remains the same. Seat stay attachment is simplified.  Seat post binder bolt is integrated so this eliminates a joint.   Trek did something similar back in the late '80's.  The reason for tig welding the head tube comes down to cost.  It's cheaper than lugs both in terms of time and materials (lugs + filler metal).

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 8:01:00 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

Pretty nice for a budget bike! 

Why the tigg'ing at the head tube instead of elsewhere? I suppose it has to do with the economics of building, but can someone explain how this choice affects costs?

Also: any ideas why the socketed seat tube cluster instead of some other design? Is this one for style? (Nothing wrong with that, btw.)

And I wouldn't mind that Calfee! (But would prefer my 2 Riv custom fixies.)

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Jim M. <math...@gmail.com> wrote:

Stopped by RBW for a few small things today and got to try the proto-Roadini. Here's an album with some pics: https://goo.gl/photos/uNuwi6pGPSEJf71w5

It is a very comfortable bike to ride, as are all Rivs. 46cm chainstay on this 57cm, so it's longer than a Roadeo and shorter than Clem, etc. Rides very smooth, corners confidently, and it's easy to envision the miles easily rolling away under the wheels. When I got on, I checked the barends for shifters. Not finding any, I reached for the downtube, but what do you know, it has brifters. This proto is set up with a rapid rise XT derailer, which I like.

Interesting new fastback seat lug. Cool headbadge. Grant's shin in one of the shots. And at the end is the top secret Riv proto carbon fiber fixie, badged as a Calfee to keep it incognito.

jim m

walnut creek, ca

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[Grant Petersen]

The new seat lug doesn't care what the seat tube angle or any of that it--it rotates to accommodate. That is a convenience, but in the rotation dept it's no diff than a standard side-braze. The original Trek lugs from '78 or so were totally fixed angles, as were the dropouts, and each size had its own set, and they didn't require mitering (the internals accepted straight-cut tubes) The initial investment was high, but it allowed Trek builders to braze up to 40 frames (per builder) per day.

The ENTIRE purpose of the ball-socket seat lug is to eliminate shear forces, which is does 100 percent. The cost to braze each joint is the same or a bit higher. The tooling investment can't possibly pay for itself in any kind of economical cost savings. The opposite---we already have several seat lugs (like, eight) and seat stay plugs (three) which we've now made obsolete, even though the molds are good for another 50 years worth of frames at our rate.

Not once that I can think of have we (I) ever made a decision based on its ability to save us money. We've not made stuff that cost too much (fully lugged tandem....). We often can't afford something. But if we were concerned about saving a dollar or even fifty dollars, even a hundred dollars on a frame, we wouldn't use ANY lugs or fork crowns or cast dropouts.

Here's a cost savings thing--not to go back on what I just said--but it's the way I'd prefer it, anyway (with my fondness for asymmetry). ON the Roadini/new seat stay caps, we wanted both 14mm and 16mm. But I don't want to pay for two molds, and each mold could fit only two caps. So, genius of the obvious, I said rather than do a left and right side 14 in one and a left and right 16 in another, just do a left 14 and a right 16 in the same mold, and when they make 100 bikesworth of 14s, (200 14mm caps) they also make 100 bikesworth of 16s--whether we need them or not. This saves the $2,500 (cheaper than a lug or crown mold!) or so tool cost for separate L and R for both 14 & 16, but we pay for the others even when we don't need them yet.

The actual real and only significant cost savings is the TIG-ing instead of LUG-ing on the other joints.

The dropouts cost less per pair, but as you'll see when you see them, we made up for that with higher labor costs in the way they made the joint. Both front and rear. So again, it all comes down to TIG saves $$$...and then not having to cream the head tube area, too.

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[Doug Bloch]

I stopped by yesterday but at 100 degrees it was too darn hot to test for me. Still the bike looked pretty and I snapped a pic of some other Roadini frames in blue. The silver/gray is sharp but so is this blue. This might end up being my first Riv bike!

Doug
Alameda CA USA

[Belopsky]

When are these expected btw? I think I'm on the mailing list..

[Daniel D.]

Last word was august...

[Chris Birkenmaier]

So are these the final color choices or just on the prototype?  I'm on the mailing list too for updates but haven't heard anything in a while.

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 2:12:08 PM UTC-4, Daniel D. wrote:

Last word was august...

[LBleriot]

That looks like Bleriot blue to me.

[Joe Bernard]

The new newsletter has some pics of the Roadini and inquires about the provenance of the decals. I'm calling it: Heron!

[Geeter]

This is great. It's exactly what I want in a road bike at this stage of the game.