Lanky 'Lantis Thought Thread on the FB

[Cyclofiend Jim]

There was a shortish thread on the RBW Group over on Facebook, in which a photo of the NewLantis and it's lanky chainstays brought a few comments.  I posted a response over there, which doesn't really fit the tone of any threads over here.  However, since the discussions in FB tend to be a bit short and at times brutish, I'm posting it here as well - just wanted it to be a part of our body of work as well.

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Been thinking a bit about Beth's Atlantis post, and some of the comments which followed. Not sure if any of my thoughts are fully formed, but since strong reactions always seem to follow GP's design evolutions, and I'm enjoying a nice afternoon tea after two days of Quickbeam loops, it just feels like a topic worth exploring.

I've been following Rivendell since I first saw a sage green custom at a booth at Interbike. That was a couple months after a co-worker who shared my interest in the then-dwindling number of steel frame makers gave me a heads-up that I ought to pay attention to what Grant was doing with "this Rivendell thing" and shared the first few Rivendell Readers with me.

The business at that time consisted of a lot of Suntour and other unique NOS part batches and bespoke frames bearing the Rivendell headbadge.

People kind of got grumpy when the bespoke frames became actual models, dropped the more ornate lugs, became the Atlantis and the Rambouillet. Folks thought the whole 650B thing was silly. Or that something like the Hilsen was ridiculous because it had a kickstand plate and huge tire clearances (accommodating tires which didn't even exist at the time). The Bombadill and Hunqapillar had too many tubes, as did anything with a twin top tube. Appaloosa's sweep bar focus created a bike that continued to confound.

My thought is that none of these came to be without Grant and others riding proto's, noting what they liked and what they didn't and revising and refining and drilling down. Most of those ideas were heresy, then grudgingly accepted and then sort of taken for granted. It's always struck me as the Henry Ford quote that if he'd asked folks what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse.

On the other hand, how do you stay solvent in retail these days? How to you deal with an ever-dwindling number of suppliers for the raw materials? How do you properly fit normal people (not thoroughbred 135 pound, bird-boned pro-gene type bike riders) on a variety of frames without stocking 15 sizes per model? That strikes me as a darned tough equation.

So, you design frames that are a bit more forgiving in fit, maybe you have to have a few more degrees upslope and lugs that can be used on more than one frame size and style. Maybe TIG'ing a BB shell keeps you in business.

And then there is the whole how-do-I-get-this-built part of the equation. You have designs that aren't like anyone else's, so you can just have Giant or someone paint some frames with your logo. With steel's resurgence, most of the competent brazers are ekeing a living with their own line. Or you have to have a good relationship with Waterford and put up with their delivery system.

To distract myself from these trains of thought, I decided just for kicks that I needed a new bike. On the RBW site, I find a couple I would love and a couple I'm not drawn to. A Hillborne and a Hunq would be fun to build out for very different lifestyles.

But I also feel lucky that I stretched a bit at the time and put down my deposit on a pre-order QB and did the same when the Hilsens came around.

By the same token, if one wants the lean and light road machine, one could put a deposit on a Roadeo and get that in the queue. And I do wonder how many of the folks who loudly lamented the Rambo going away or the Bombadil being back-cataloged or... heck... even the Atlantis (USA) being changed actually stepped up and purchased one. That's not a value-judgement on anyone having an opinion, but after a good chunk of life in retail, I have definitely run across folks who always want you to stock the newest, most expensive model but never actually buy anything from you. And that group really isn't us here, so please don't take that in any way personally.

Here's the thing. I want Rivendell to be successful. They protected the brittle spark of non-racing-influenced designs for a long time until it once again became a resolute flame. They have contributed mightily to the development of equipment that matters for most of us. I am ultimately fiercely loyal to them. Any time I've visited Walnut Creek and ridden something that looked kind of weird or seemed kind of bizarre, I've always rolled back going, "oh... ok... I see what you did there." I'll give Grant the benefit of the doubt until I ride one of his designs and don't find it works for me. So far, that has not occurred.

[iamkeith]

Thanks for posting.  I've never followed anything on facebook too closely (even before the current dust-up), so I wouldn't have seen this.  I thought that page was more about pictures than conversations.  From a quick read, it didn't sound too inflammatory or troll-ish, thankfully.  Mostly a bunch of hand wringing over such crucial things as:

"Should the new Atlantis have been called something else because it is built in Taiwan and has a sloped top tube, in order to avoid 'diluting' the brand?," and  

"I suspect that long chainstays will be a liability in singletrack... even though I've never tried them."

All pretty benign in the grand scheme of things, and I suspect that the reason most people comment is because they actually care about Rivendell.   Some are just less aware of how critical sounding their comments actually come across.   Others are just curious.    

I've been thinking recently about how vocal I myself have been on this forum over the years, about frustrations over how a particular model was not  made in my size, or in saying that "if only it had X feature, then Rivendell's Y product would be perfect."  I'm not sure my intentions or good will are always clear.  So what's funny about the new Atlantis is that it has now evolved into the EXACT bike I've been screaming about, and it rectifies every criticism, and it eliminates every excuse I've ever had for not getting one:  Because of the sloped top tube, there is now a size that fits me;  I can afford it;  It has a better, more nimble wheel size for my intended use;  It eliminates toe clip overlap;  It will be less twitchy and more stable.  Put that frame together with the forthcoming new "wider albatross" bar that I and others endlessly whine about wanting, and Riv basically just released my dream bike at a non-custom price.

So for everyone who laments the changes, there's probably someone else like me who couldn't be happier, and who will actually spend their money.  Whoever posted that collage on the other thread, about the Porsche 911 chronology,  said it perfectly in so many words.  Remember how people freaked out when it became liquid cooled?!  Bottom line was that the car remained geared toward a specific type of driving, and toward a specific type of customer.   The fact that the Atlantis continues to evolve and innovate is precisely what makes it the timeless classic that it is.   What would be silly is NOT changing it up once in a while.