Breaking in a leather Brooks

[Broccoli Cog]

I have decided to take the plunge into the world of leather saddles with the purchase of a Brooks B17. I am in search of one now and decided to buy used. There is a variety of information regarding proper break in. I have read using mink oil, baseball glove oil and various other methods some of which seem like gimmicks. I am more into the keep it simple approach of applying a good reputable oil and simply going out and riding. The only way to break it in is time. Can anyone share their real world experience with breaking in a leather saddle?

[Tim Gavin]

DO NOT USE A SOFTENING OIL like neatsfoot (baseball glove) or similar.  The leather will stretch significantly, often past the point of recovery by the tension screw in the nose.

The best treatment is a couple applications of Brooks' own Proofide, or my (and Riv's) favorite, Obenauf's LP (cheaper, too).

Then you have to earn the rest of the break in.  You can re-apply the Proofide or LP monthly if you want to accelerate it a tiny bit.  But any product that softens the leather will take years of life off your Brooks.  

I applied neatsfoot oil to my first Brooks, a Flyer.  That saddle has almost an inch of "hammock" drop in the middle now, and it squeaks like the dickens.  NOT RECOMMENDED.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Broccoli Cog <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have decided to take the plunge into the world of leather saddles with the purchase of a Brooks B17. I am in search of one now and decided to buy used. There is a variety of information regarding proper break in. I have read using mink oil, baseball glove oil and various other methods some of which seem like gimmicks. I am more into the keep it simple approach of applying a good reputable oil and simply going out and riding. The only way to break it in is time. Can anyone share their real world experience with breaking in a leather saddle?

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[Ryan Fleming]

Might want to use some sort of rain cover as well

Also, the leather in  B-17 standards with the small silver rivets does not seem to be as thick as say, Champion ,  Professional or Select saddles , so they will break in faster and be less durable. These are perfectly OK saddles. Eventually , leather saddles conform to your anatomy.

[Austin ^]

Keep it simple. Ride often. Use a cover if you're going to be riding in very wet weather, but if you don't it's not the end of the world. I apply Montana Pitch Blend to my saddle every thousand km or so, or if it gets very wet, once it's dried out. I don't feel Brooks saddles need a pre treatment beyond whatever they've already had done to them.

[dougP]

Proofhide then just ride on it.  Over the years, I've used 3 Brooks B-17s.  Only one took longer than a couple of weeks to become comfortable, and that one perhaps a month.  A rain cover is a good idea as they don't like to get soaked. 

dougP

[Joe Bernard]

As others have said just Proofide or Obenauf's initially with a new saddle, but I wouldn't worry about it with used. Anything you buy will likely have been treated when new, so just hop on and ride. The only need for it later will be to apply a bit if the leather looks like it's starting to dry out.

[Steve Palincsar]

True, but it's not like a B.17 needs all that much in the way of break-in.  Especially not compared to the Team Pro.   Do your initial application of Proofide / Obenaufs top and bottom, and go ride.  I found (back when B.17s were working for me) that straight out of the box they were good for rides up to maybe 50 miles, and after a few rides they were good to go for all distances.  By way of comparison, it has taken me up to 500 miles or more before a Team Pro was truly broken in.

[Jay Connolly]

I bought a blue Brooks to match my first-ever bike build some years ago. Rode it for an hour, then took it off because it chafed. A month later, I tried again. Maybe a couple of rides. Still hated it. This went on for a couple of years, until I had three or four hundred kilometres on the saddle. Then, one day, I put it on and headed down the road . . . and suddenly thought, "Hey, NOW I get it." All those rides--maybe 10 or so--and I had inadvertently broken it in. I recently broke in another on my Appaloosa, only this time I had the sense to tolerate the relative discomfort for the required duration. I'm heavy, so a Brooks probably comes around a little more quickly for me than it might for a lighter person.

Patience. Use the saddle cream on yourself, not the saddle.

Jay

[LBleriot]

I'd go easy on the Proofhide, and would not use it until you've ridden the saddle a bit.  The "new" B17 uses a less thick hide than the older version IMHO, so they tend to break in quicker.  Also, resist the urge to touch the tension bolt.

[Dave Small]

I echo what others have said:  Sparingly use Proofhide (or something similar) and then just ride it.  I do recommend covering it in the rain; wet leather stretches much more easily than dry leather, and riding a soaked saddle will misshape it.  I keep a $3 shower cap in my repair kit, and it works well.  

[Justin, Oakland]

I have an older THICK Black b17 that I think I'm ready to part with. If you're interested.

- Justin, Oakland

[Ron Mc]

JUST SAY NO to breaking in Brooks saddle tricks.  You will find they are plenty soft and will be broken in by 50 mi.  

If you play any games with them, you will shorten the life, and IMO they don't last long enough.  

My Brooks never need breaking in  - the newer the better.  

[Joe Bernard]

Remember the method in one of the first Readers? Something about dipping it in a bucket of water, then...I can't remember the next 8 steps. Don't dip it in a bucket of water!

[Broccoli Cog]

I'm glad I checked here with you guys first. I had a feeling that there are no shortcuts. I ended up buying a new B17 Standard in Honey. I also picked up a Nitto S83 seatpost to help make saddle tilt easier. I already have a rain cover. I can't wait to get it mounted so I can try it out. Keeping my fingers crossed that it will right for me! 

[Evan E.]

Proofide contains beef tallow. Obenauf's LP doesn't. Some people who work with leather professionally say that tallow is good for leather. Other say that tallow goes rancid and that it's bad for leather. After spending at least two hours reading the arguments and testimony of professionals and hobbyists, I, for one, have concluded that Obenauf's LP (which is mainly beeswax and bee propolis) is a good saddle goop. Huberd's Shoe Grease might be good, too. It's also made with beeswax, but it includes pine tar. I haven't tried it yet. 

Whatever goop you choose, go easy, as others have said. (Apply it once a month maximum, if you live in a dry climate. Otherwise maybe once quarterly?) 

If you want to go down a leather-treatment rabbit hole, here's one place to begin:

http://dalehavencox.weebly.com/huberds-shoe-grease---best-ingredients-and-best-price.html 

Enjoy your B17!

 

[Doug Bloch]

I've had a good experience with both Proofide and Obenauf's. But the best is to ride!

Doug

[Ron Mc]

Right now I have a spare Swallow Select that I bought on $99 closeout.  I use proofhide on that to keep the leather from drying out in storage.  

On my bike's, I use Obenauff's, but I use it sparingly.  Nothing time based, just as it seems to need it.  

I keep them polished with chamois.  

Running Swallows on two drop-bar bikes, and B17 Select on two more upright bikes.  

I also use Randi Jo's saddle covers to cover them for transport, and for weather emergencies.  

Protect them from rain - they're probably going to get enough water with sweat.  

[REC]

"they're probably going to get enough water with sweat.  "

Is sweat something to be concerned with an untreated saddle?  Currently, my saddle is untreated.

Broccoli Cog--not that I'm an expert, as I've had my brooks (B-17)  for 2 months--150 miles.  I was a little sore after my first ride, fine since then.  Still, every time I get on I think "this is so hard, how can it be comfortable?"  Yet, it is.

Roberta

[Ron Mc]

Hi Roberta, 

not too concerned, but wet saddles stretch a bit while they're wet and loaded.  

Here's a B17 Select that's been high-mileage through 4 south Texas summers, and you can see it's not sagging and hasn't ridged - it started off the color of the new Swallow Select on the right.  

Here's a B17 Standard that both sagged and ridged on me, even that you can solve with lacing and get a few more seasons.  

The stretch bolt on B17s seems to promote ridging - a high narrow crown in the back of the saddle - use stretch bolt sparingly on these.  

Swallows take really well to the stretch bolt - I have a high-mileage Swallow that every time I tighten the stretch bolt, I like the saddle better.  

I give the top of all my saddles one good Obenauff's treatment, where I use a blow drier to melt the Obenauff's and let the saddle absorb it.  Then I just use it occasionally after that.  

When my saddles are dry, I buff them well.  

[Cameron Murphy]

There's a ton of conflicting information out there, so I'm not going to pretend this is gospel.  That being said, I've had a half dozen Brooks saddles of varying ages from new to 40 years old, and have even re-covered two Brooks Professional saddles with new custom formed tops.

Basically, your new B17 has leather that is smooth, strong, and relatively rigid.  For best service life, you want it to stay that way, but conform to your backside. The best bet is to use a damp cloth over the rear of the saddle, and let it sit there for an hour or two until the leather is damp too.  It will still be fairly stiff, but will be a lot more conformable and flexible than the dry leather of the nose and midsection.  Then go out and ride it until you start to get some indentations in the sit bone area. Once it's comfortable, stop riding, and let it dry for a day or two. You can then give it a light coat of proofhide or other dressing. You now have a fully broken-in saddle that should last for years.  (The B17 is kind of thin, so it's not going to last you decades like a Professional, or some of the older B17s from the 60s)

The idea behind dressings like Proofhide or Obenauf's is to replace some of the oils and fats that were originally worked into the leather during the tanning process, but that are continually lost to oxidation / evaporation / crosslinking to various varnishes, etc.  If you don't use any dressing, eventually the leather will dry out, harden, shrink, and crack.  (Eventually means years or maybe even decades.).  Dressings won't completely stop the effects of aging, but will help quite a bit.

You really want to avoid any sort of softening oil like mink or neatsfoot, or even heavy applications of dressings.  Too much oil will saturate the fibers, allowing them to slide past each other, which leads to premature stretching and a very short useful life.

Lastly, the tension screw is really only to correct for a sagging midsection -- It's hard to avoid a bit of sag, but you don't want it to turn into a hammock either.  Ideally the top will be hard enough that the sit bone indentations will only sink a bit below the level of the rest of the top.  If the top is too soft, the sit bone indentations will continue to collapse, while the central ridge running from the nose to the rear won't. Taken too far, this leads to the dreaded "Ass Hatchet" effect.  :-(     The best way to correct sit bone indentations that have gone too far is to de-tension the nose, then soak the saddle underwater for an hour or so.  Once it's saturated, you can press the top back into shape, then let it dry.  You might need to stuff the inside with something to maintain it's shape, but I haven't needed to the 5 or 6 times I've done it to various saddles.   Once the saddle is dry, you can give it a light dressing again.  I've found the wetting / drying process usually stiffens up the leather a bit.  Apparently the drying tends to force oils out from the fibers towards the surface -- hence the re-dressing when dry.   I've put thousands of miles on saddles that I acquired with various asymmetries, or excessive indentations that were essentially reshaped to a like new shape that held up just as well as actual new saddles.  The only failures I've had were with saddles that were already deeply cracked across the rear cantle rivets -- even then I got a year or two of use out of a saddle that looked to be on death's doorstep.

Cameron Murphy

San Marcos, CA

[Tim]

Lon Haldeman (ultra cycling legend, who, quite likely, has ridden more miles on leather saddles than possibly any other human), in his blog in 2011, wrote about how to break in a Brooks using the hot water method. He claims to have broken in over 300 Brooks saddles this way for riders on his PACTOUR rides.

http://pactour.blogspot.com

When I first began using Brooks, in 2011, I a lot of pain and difficulty in getting them broken in. I used this method twice. The first time it worked great and I experienced a lot of relief from the, for me, extreme discomfort of the new saddle. In fact, I wouldn't have continued to ride it had I not done this. Afterward, the saddle "disappeared" beneath me. The second time I was too impatient, and after the initial 10 minute ride while wet, rode the saddle later in the day, before it had fully dried, and ruined it (at least for me), because it was visibly sagging. I was berated in this group by someone when I related my experience.

I've had 2, maybe 3, new Brooks since then, and didn't use anything but Proofide or Obenaufs, and didn't have the issues I had when I first started riding them. I guess maybe I was used to them enough by then. So, to sum it all up, I think those directions work if followed closely (or perfectly).

Oh, one other interesting aside, I've had two B17 Standards, and on both, the rivet that is furthest left on the rear of the saddle, rubbed a blister on my butt. I had to use a Dremel to file it down on the outside edge. Weird. The B17 Special, with the hammered copper rivets, does not do this to me (and they look nicer too) so that is my saddle now.

Peace,
Tim "whose butt probably isn't smooth as a baby's butt but at least it doesn't have a blister" Kirch

[alan lavine]

While we're on the topic, don't some B17's break in easier than others?  Of all the various leathers available, which is the best and which is the worst?

Thanks,

Alan

NYC

[Steve Palincsar]

B.17s -

They have one - aged- that is pre-worn & already broken in when you get it.  It comes pre-drilled for lacing, and you'll need to lace it after but a very short time.

The standard / champion special in my experience is good for shorter rides right out of the box, and good for centuries after maybe 50 miles. 

The Select, which as far as I can tell appears to be discontinued now, takes longer to break in as it's leather is much thicker.  I've no personal experience with them.

There's also a model with a cutout, the Imperial.  It's pre-drilled for lacing, which strongly suggests that lacing will in fact be required.

-- http://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/saddles.html

I can't imagine anyone needing to resort to hot water baths or any other weird techniques to break in a B.17.  Now some Team Pros are very, very hard to break in and can be very challenging to ride long enough to break them in.  But we're not talking about Team Pros here.

There's a lot of weird, bizarre and downright wrong advice on breaking in saddles on the internet.  Some of it might come from famous people.  You'd be well advised to stay away from such advice.  If you see anything mentioning Mink Oil or ball peen hammers, run the other way as fast as you can, fingers in your ears saying "La la la la" all the while. 

And by the way, if a saddle really hurts chances are good that the shape of it is wrong for you, and no amount of breaking in is going to fix that.  There are many brands of saddles, and within each brand many models of different widths and often different shapes.

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[Tim]

Mink Oil and the Ball Peen Hammers would be a killer name for a rock band!

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/22/2017 05:37 PM, 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Mink Oil and the Ball Peen Hammers would be a killer name for a rock band!

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I also agree with not resorting to all sorts of saddle torture to break in the Brooks. I cringe when I see the water or put it in an oven advice. Just ride the dang thing. The Pro is much thicker leather. I have a number of the Selects and like them knowing that they should last a good long time. They look fabulous too

[Broccoli Cog]

As the OP I am happy to report I received my new Brooks B17 Standard in the mail today. Put the saddle on and went for a ride. I can't say it was instantly comfortable but I feel like the shape of the saddle is correct. I just need to have a little give where my sits bones meet the saddle. I rode 12 miles in just regular shorts no chamois. Still many miles to go before break in but I am optimistic that it is going to be right for me. 

[Joe Bernard]

BC, if you're anything like me you won't need padded shorts after the saddle is broken in. I rode many years with padded shorts on many saddles, and even after I got a B17 - which was better - I was still getting saddle sores. One day I said screw it and bought wool underwear and unpadded shorts from Riv..problem solved. All that padded squishiness between me and the saddle just got in the way and caused problems. It was the shock of my life when I discovered that going with no buffer was the right plan.

[David Banzer]

The water method works if you follow specific directions that Lon Haldeman has written. Technically this method is simple leather wet forming and if done properly, it should stretch out the leather very much - it's just making a form to your backside by wet forming. The key is to make sure it is absolutely dry before riding it again. I've done it with a couple  of my B17 standards that were a little stubborn in breaking in and was pleased with the results, though getting miles in would eventually do the same thing.
One thing to note is that this method will likely change the overall color of the saddle. My honey brooks got darker, not as dark as the brown brooks - this also would occur through use, but the water method speeds the worn in color faster as well.
I'd really only recommend this method if you're impatient, like me - I had a bike with a new saddle that I was taking on a trip and wanted to make sure the saddle was broken in. The water method (if followed correctly) shouldn't do anything different than a few hundred miles of riding would do.
David
River Grove

[RandoNate]

I've found that different Brooks saddles require different treatment to break in.

My first Brooks was a B-17 flyer. This was basically comfortable right out of the box. I initially and occasionally applied proofide and it was very comfortable by ~200 miles.

My second Brooks is a B17 select that I got from fellow lister Will Ashe. You can check his previous posts about not being able to break it in despite a year of riding and 1000 or more miles. I can say that Will was not exaggerating. This thing felt (and sounded) like a hard piece of wood. I tried proofide plus 100 miles and found no improvement. I decided to go nuclear and used the Sheldon Brown neatsfoot oil method. The saddle was immediately more comfortable, but not saggy. With 50 miles it was close to perfection. I've got maybe 700 miles on it since with no sagging. The color was completely changed, but this was definitely worth it.

Nate