CSJ: Non-moose Boscos

[cam starnes]

Just noticed that the 2016 Clems (one of which is my anxiously awaited/still awaiting 52c green pre-order) are shipping with normal, non-bullmoose Boscos. I suppose it's silly to be disappointed, but I have always liked the integrated look of the various bullmoose variants, and also thought the added stiffness would be good, generally, and especially good for yanking that long, stout bike around while hauling my commuting load. Any thoughts?

CS (Cam S., not Clem S.)

[Bill Lindsay]

How have you determined that Clem-completes are now shipping with non-bullmoose bars?  All of the Clem Completes in the "ready to ride" section of rivbike.com have bullmooses.  The catalog sure says it's bullmooses.  Is it possible that you might be looking at photos of bikes posted by people who bought a frameset only?  I don't have a dog in the fight, and I could think of reasons why I would want bullmoose and reasons why I would want non-bullmoose.  After listing the pros and cons, I'd still prefer to have bullmoose boscos.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[cam starnes]

The actual order page makes no mention of it, but this page notes the 2016 batch is non-moose: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-clemsmith.htm.

[Joe Bernard]

Well there ya go. This might be good for some buyers, those wayback-and-wide Boscos are an acquired taste. It'll be cheaper to try a new bar this way.

[iamkeith]

Cam, having the non-bull moose version on my clem, I tend to think it is mostly a positive. I ended up with and prefer the ends rotated downward much more than the fixed position on the b.m., primarily because it makes the 3rd grip position (at the downward curve) usable and comfortable. If the main grip section is set more horizontal, you have to contort your wrists oddly to grip the curve, and your hands will want to slide forward. I also found i needed a longer stem extension than the b.m. would have provided. I got the 130 which is the longest riv sells, but would (and may) prefer 140 or 150 if i can find one. Likewise, i much prefer the negative rise of a normal stem. The 120mm /90 degree effective stem on the b.m. would be too high and way too close for the amount of rise and reach-back those bars have.

On the other hand, i do agree that the loss in rigidity is a negative. I find my riding technique restrained by the flex of the bar (technically, i think its more of a "torsion" than a "flex"), and am reluctant to perform out-of-the-saddle sprints unless I'm gripping the curve part mentioned above. Other than the regular bull moose, it's the only adequately-wide bar riv sells, in my opinion, and i think the lack of stiffness is the tradeoff. Great bar overall.

[Mark in Beacon]

I noticed this when Grant posted pics of the tape job on his new mustard Clem L., with NBMB. At first I thought maybe he got a frameset, but then I noticed the tell-tale gray saddle. Maybe it was in response to people just not being comfortable these days with not being able to adjust the bar angle. I guess I just got lucky, as I find the original stock bar fits me fine. I did give it a good couple of months to get in with the bars, but the angle was never an issue. I still ride my Miyata Ridgerunner with the original Bullmoose bars, too. I love my articulated limbs, highly adjustable!

[scott]

I called on Monday with a few questions about my Clem that had just arrived. They in fact do not have the moose anymore and it is because, as Mark explained, it was a pain to fit it all into the shipping box. I was relieved to get a regular stem because I like to angle my bars down more than a moose would have allowed.
    

[cam starnes]

Interesting. Thanks, Scott. Guess that makes sense! If I could ask, when did you place your preorder? Trying hard to be patient and not bug Rivendell folks with better things to do about where my Clem is in the queue!

[cam starnes]

Thanks for this - that's exactly my quandary. I like the adjustability (have heard several folks say they like their Boscos at more of an angle than the moose version) and the additional real estate next to the stem for the forward grip, but I do worry about flex. 58cm Boscos + 120mm stem = a lot of potential for wiggly metal under load, and I tend to dislike that "torsion" feeling. I'm not exactly a featherweight dude, plus I like to use my bike to carry stuff - commuting loads, full growlers of beer, 750mL bottles of whiskey (okay, so there's a trend there), both of which I fear will exacerbate the flexiness. I know I could spring for a bullmoose version separately, but there are so many other bikey accessories and such that I'd rather buy... Guess we'll just wait and see how it goes. Thanks again.

[Kai Vierstra]

My Clem came last Wednesday, with non-bullmooses. I rode them for a day and switched them up for some Choco-mooses I purchased ever so slightly used on this list. I assume there's going to be plenty of different Bullmoose type bars coming up for sale, what with all the Clems and Appaloosas rolling about getting up and down grades, so swap and play. Buy the TIGged versions and lay in some brass over those joints for bonus points!
Enjoy
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[LLM]

Cam, I placed my Clem preorder April 12.  It shipped last Friday, August 5.  New Bike Day tomorrow!

Linda

[cam starnes]

There's a thought - I do love a good handlebar swap! To me, no single part changes the personality of a bike quite so drastically, which can certainly keep things fun and interesting. I want to give Boscos a good fair shake first, in light of Zed Martinez's excellent Clem review and the fact that GP seems to have had Boscos specifically in mind when he designed the bike. But, because you've already piqued my curiosity, how is the Clem with Choco bars? That likely extends your reach quite a bit as compared to Boscos, yes? Also, when did you place your Clem preorder? Trying to subtly gauge how soon mine might ship... I ordered July 2.

Cam S.

[Kai Vierstra]

I placed my order in January, being way too excited for a big&tough bike to wait for details (like specific sizing). I don't think the reach is that much different between the Bosco and the Choco, it's the height that sets them apart, and the slightly more useful forward section on the Choco bar. The Boscos are great, I used them for a good while, but already owning a brazed moose version I wasn't looking forward to having two around, so I'm happy to have the non-moosed around as an option.
But the real reason for going Choco-moose??, it's so my mustard Clem can properly impersonate a higher class Appaloosa from afar...
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Picture?                      Jim D.        Massachusetts

[Kai Vierstra]

Pictured, the Clempaloosa, this morning at 12:30am, at 242 st./Van Cortland Park, tired and waiting for the 1 train to take me homeward. Lots of loose strings and wires, running a broken headlight held together with zipties, powered by 4xAA's in the bag (working out my dyno-wheel needs). And wrapped Ergon grips (very tricky, kinda crappy, extra grippy, supremely comfortable). And last but not least, 2.35" Schwalbe Big Ones with fenders (need to "rinko" the front to get adequate clearances)
Glamour post to follow...
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[Joe Bernard]

I love it, Kai. You managed to make a brand new Clem look like it just got back from a world tour. Nice!

[Michael Morrissey]

Looks great!  What fenders are you using?

m

[Kai Vierstra]

SKS 65's, P65 is the designation I think? They've been on a shelf for 6 months waiting for that bike. They're not really big enough for the "Big Ones", but they're big enough that I had to trim them due to rubbing from the chain when in low low low gear. Now that I've trimmed the fender the chain rubs the tire if I'm that low, which I'm rarely in. Still plenty of room between the 2.35"ers and the frame and fork. I should measure those to see what the real width is on the massive Alex DM24 rims (which look like they might be tubeless compatible but Riv says they don't think so and Alex rims isn't very good at returning my email).
-Kai
Brooklyn NY

[cam starnes]

Very nice, and those Chocomoose bars look right at home. Now you're tempting me into a bar swap and my Clem isn't even here yet! Will be on Wednesday by end of day, however, FedEx promises...