Holiday Saddle question

[Surlyprof]

I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout.  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any thoughts comparing these 3 choices?

Thanks,

John

[Eric Karnes]

I purchased a Selle Anatomica last year. I was pretty disappointed at the finish quality when I took it out of the box. Much lower quality leather and general detailing than the cheaper Brooks B-17 it replaced. But I figured a saddle was meant to be saddled, so I wouldn't be seeing it much anyway. So installed it and it was fantastic...for about a week. And then it sagged (and I tightened the bolt) and sagged (and I tightened the bolt again). This went on and on until eventually I just gave up on it. It was surprising as I'm not super heavy. About 160lbs, so well below the recommended rider weight limit for the X Series.

I replaced it with a C-17 Carved and have been very happy with it. It doesn't completely disappear under me the way the SA did (for the week it worked properly), but it's the best overall saddle I've used. That said, some people can't stand it. Saddles more than anything seem to be a personal preference. So just my two cents...

Eric

[Joe Bernard]

I think the S-A is poorly designed. There's no logical reason for the edges to be sticking straight into your legs instead of rolled down.

[Fullylugged]

I have Selle Anatomicas on all 4 of my bikes. RBW used to sell them and that was where my first one came from. They do stretch at first and then they stop if you follow the instructions and don't over tension. They also sell a longer replacement bolt for extra life on a worn saddle. Their comfy from day 1 but do not wear as long as a Brooks. You can drill them and stitch the edges together, but the edges have never bothered me.

[Paul Y]

I have this issue with my SAs too (X and NSX), the sides do not taper downwards like on a Brooks and they cut into my inner thighs.

[Steve Palincsar]

Me too.

[Steve Palincsar]

Rivet had in the past and may still have a "try it and if you like it,
buy it" program. I took advantage of it and tried the Pearl and the
Independence and learned that neither worked for me; I then by
arrangement with Rivet passed the Indy on to a friend, who liked it and
bought it. I think it cost me $25 to try the two saddles, well worth it
and much cheaper than the usual "saddle merry-go-round".

[Les Lammers]

I recently got the X-Series https://selleanatomica.com/products/x-series The edges are not rolled but I'll drill holes and use zip ties. Years ago I sent them a B-17 and they did a cutout. I still have it and like it but the Sell has longer rails and is more adjustable. You do get a 30 money back policy. YMMV.

[Tony DeFilippo]

I destroyed an SA 'X' saddle in a single century ride a couple years ago... To be fair I was pushing their stated weight limit at about 240lbs but it was clear to me the saddle wasn't for me.

I've had a second hand Rivet for about two years now and love it, much thicker leather and overall a more robust design. B17's, B67's and C17 saddles all work fine for me to.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Well this is a topic near and dear to my heart!  :)   I love Brooks saddles but ventured into SA due to good reviews on the net.  As usual I went over board and bought like 4 of them (I own a bunch of bikes).  After riding them and getting the sag I tightened them and the skirts of the saddle spread out flat, I don't know, a turtle shape or something.  So except for 1 I haven't adjusted they are all off the bikes and in my bike parts tub.  I talked to the SA rep at the Philly Bike Expo in November and described my problem and he said that was to be expected because the leather is not wet when molded (I hope I got the explanation correct) and to send them in to SA to have the sides punched and tied together as mentioned above.  Given that I have a lot of Brooks that I like and work well for me, I'm not inclined to go to the effort.  Note - none of mine were slotted and they were the X or NSX which is the more robust saddle.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Oh, I should add that I did buy one during that sale mentioned which is a good savings off the regular price but I personally am not going to buy another.  I've seen the Rivet saddles in person and they look lovely but have never ridden one.  Appears to be quality made (the Rivet).

[Clayton]

I had a Brooks Special and could never get real comfortable on it, even after ten years. I tried a Selle Anatomica and now have them on all three of my bikes. Once they get a little beausage, they look better. I only had the sides of the saddle bother me in technical single track. After an hour, the inside of my thighs got a touch irritated, but not enough to cancel the blissful comfort the rest of the time. I had to set my saddles a little nose high, more than the Brooks. It supports like a hammock. By tilting the nose a little high, you sit in the sweet spot, with no damage to the junk. The saddle should be set a little on the loose side. Not loose, but not drum tight. This will prevent over stretching. I'd say try one....I just bought another to replace the old long rail SA's (that were crap).  

I haven't tried any other leather cutout saddle, so..... I have a bias. 

Claytonious Q

Bend

[Surlyprof]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm glad I asked.  Between the lukewarm to bad reports on the SA and the glowing reviews I found in previous posts about Rivet, I think I'll hold off and spend the extra money for the Rivet.  I was leaning that way anyway since I had met the woman who runs Rivet at NAHBS and she was really great.  The whole company seemed similar to Riv in their values.  Guess I should have followed that instinct instead of getting cheap about something so crucial to a positive biking experience.  Get what you pay for and all that...

Thanks again.

John

[Kieran J]

Among other saddles, I've tried the B17, the Rivet Pearl and the regular S-A (not X) from a couple of generations (although not one of their current 'plate logo' versions). My impressions are that the Rivet is a nice composition in feel between the B17 and S-A. It combines elements of each, and it's pretty nice. 

I still really like the S-A. It is my go-to commuter saddle, and I have probably 10,000km logged to my oldest one. Yes, the tension bolt is almost maxed out but as another poster mentioned, don't over-tension it and it will last. I have noticed the splayed out skirts of the saddle at times on my inner thighs, but even so it is still the only product that will virtually "disappear" underneath me. Almost everything else gives me real arse problems, including the Rivet.

I never got along well with the B17. It's a classic saddle and I really wanted to, but the hardness and proximity of the back rivets to my butt cheek didn't work out.

KJ

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:

[Les Lammers]

Kieran,

I may drill my SA, it's the newer one rated for 250 pounds, and use zip ties to keep it from splaying. YMMV.

[Kieran J]

I've considered doing the same thing. No better candidate than an old, spent saddle! ;-)

KJ

[Bill M.]

John,

I own and have ridden B17's, a Rivet Pearl Ti and an first-year-of-production SA.  They are quite different, and for me suit different purposes .  

The Rivet is narrow through the waist and nose, which eliminates a lot of thigh rub, but also makes it ride like a narrower saddle than the others though they measure the same at the widest point.  For me, that was great for my road/sport bike with bars a bit below the saddle, but doesn't work for me at all on a bike with something like Albatross bars and an upright position.  I rode the Pearl happily for several years though I'm trying something very different right now on the road bike (an SMP).

On the road bike the wider nose of a B17 gets in my way, but sitting more upright that becomes less of a problem.  I have one on my Clem (actually a Flyer at the moment) and it's pretty comfortable there.  I also slot the center of my Brookses and lace the skirts in tight, I can't ride one unmodified.

As delivered the SA was horrible for thigh rub, so it didn't take long for me to drill and lace mine.  It's made to fit like a hammock, so I can't ride it at all on the road bike, too much nose pressure.  Sitting very upright it became very comfortable for me.  The leather stretched a lot but finally stabilized.  Unfortunately I set it too far back on a seatpost with a short clamp, and the result was bent rails.  After bending the rails back twice I have now retired the saddle.  The are supposed to have improved the rails since mine was made, I can't vouch for that personally.

So, IMO, choose carefully based on your use and position on the bike - forward lean and pelvis rolled forward => Rivet, upright => SA.  Either way don't be afraid to carve or lace to suit.

Bill

Stockton, CA

[Ron Mc]

I ride B17 Select on upright and semi-upright moustache bike.  I ride Rivet Indy on my drop-bar road bike.  

Went through two S-A saddles and each lasted 6 months to the end of the stretch bolt.  

[ian m]

I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, X, &c.) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.

I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience thigh rub, &c. I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:

[ian m]

The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer

Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even though I don't own one.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I realize sagging is part of their design but when you get a saddle whose shirt goes from (nearly) vertical to horizontal - I have a fit problem with that.  Believe me, I wanted to like the saddle and am no stranger to leather ones.

[clayton bailey]

I just installed my fourth new SA. In my last comment I neglected to say, I had to do some prep work on my last saddle. I took coarse sandpaper and sanded down the edges to provide a rounded edge. I also carefully peened down the edge of the name plate so it won't tear up my shorts. Some mink oil on the edges of the leather fixes the destruction. I found the key to setting up mine is to set the nose a little high, and LIGHT tension. I haven't over stretched mine.... In my thirty years of riding, this is the most comfortable saddle I have tried. With beausage, they looks great. 

Claytonious Q

Bend 

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[Bruce Herbitter]

Thanks Ian.  I was feeling like the Lone Ranger.    

Sent from my iPhone

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[Tony DeFilippo]

For me it wasn't the sagging of the SA it was the bending of the super long rails over a century distance ride that did me in... I did find the saddle to be pretty comfy.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Daniel D. <dddo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's uncomfortable. I'm not sure which came first the excessive sagging or their customer service response of "it's supposed to sag and warning about  over-tensioning":p.

yes out of the box it's more comfortable than a brooks.  But a brooks gets more comfortable over time a SA gets less comfortable.  Brooks, Berthoud, or Rivet for my next one.

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[Daniel D.]

Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's uncomfortable. The company line that it's supposed to sag a lot IMO seems more like an excuse than an actual design choice.  

yes out of the box it's more comfortable than a brooks.  But a brooks gets more comfortable over time a SA gets less comfortable.  Brooks, Berthoud, or Rivet for my next one.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 6:25:23 AM UTC-8, ian m wrote:

The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer

 If I remember correctly, you're not a big guy either.

[ian m]

If the leather is taut with no slack it doesn't hammock your sit bones. If it doesn't hammock your sit bones each side wont move independently of the other. That movement combined with the slot to relieve perineal pressure are what make the saddle comfortable. Like I said I purchased my first SA saddle after meeting the previous owner (who now operates Rivet) and talking with her about the design and trying the demo saddle. These things are very much intentional design elements. I've managed to make my saddles work to where they don't sag too much and I still have plenty of room to tension more if I needed. Obviously one saddle design is not going to be perfect for every human's butt, body shape is pretty wildly variable. Doesn't make the saddle the problem.

[Eric Karnes]

I actually preferred the looks of the SA. It looks just right on a slim-tubed steel bike like a Riv. Even the looks of the 'hammock' was fine by me. But one of mine would routinely sag so severely that I could (just barely) feel the top of the seatpost while riding. Not comfortable. Maybe I got a defective one? I've been told the quality of SA saddles has decreased dramatically since the founder's passing. Or maybe--as always--saddles are a profoundly personal choice. 

Eric

[Daniel D.]

I'm not debating that point.  My brooks have some sag.  It's the amount or tendency of the material to sag that's the problem.

[Glen]

I must be one of those that the X fits, I call it my "taint hammock" and it is by far the most comfortable saddle I've ever been on. B17 on my Atlantis with Albas and the X on my Noodled Ram.

[Eric Karnes]

Hahaha. Love it!

[Ron Mc]

OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  

This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  

I have 10,000 mi on a B17 Select and took just a little stretch bolt in the summer when I was sweating heavily.  

I'm also pushing that distance on my Rivet Indy.  

It's one of the first Debra made and developed the problem of a ridge behind the slot, I think because the radius of that rear hole was too small.  

She solved this problem by increasing the diameter of the rear slot hole - I think at my recommendation.  

Finally this year, I just took one of my very sharp knives and sliced the ridge off.  

It's working great.  This is a very cozy high-mileage saddle.  

I think for most people, B17 is the wrong shape for a drop-bar road bike - it certainly is for me.  I think B17 works best on your sit-up touring bike, and also works fine for me on an upright.  

And I agree, for the greatest range in riding positions, S-A is the most invisible saddle ever made.  But matching a B17 or Rivet to its correct riding position (for your tush) is equally invisible.  

[Ron Mc]

Also want to add that my history with B17 Special and B17 Champion is equally glum - 

- both stretched and developed bad ridges to the point that I had to lace them 

S. Texas summer sweat could be a factor in this, but doesn't show up in a Select.  

[Chris Birkenmaier]

The B17 Select is one of my favorite saddles which was why I was so bummed when Brooks discontinued making them.  I've had good luck with B17s, B-67s, B17 Specials, and the B-68.  The Pros are gorgeous and I can ride them but not my favorites for comfort.  I have a B17 Narrow which I can not ride on - hurts my butt.  Oh and the C-17 Cambium is also a no-go.  Too rounded on the top/back.

[Ron Mc]

I grabbed a spare at $140 when we heard this, and it was timely for me.  But I've also heard since that Brooks is not discontinuing the Select.  

[ian m]

Here is a pic of my saddle for comparison

My sit bones are well behind the seatpost so no threat of sagging until they hit. There is no problem and nothing wrong with this saddle.

[Ron Mc]

I wouldn't call that not stretching past the end of the stretch bolt.  

On my Rivet, the saddle really did stabilize and quit stretching after 100 mi.  

[ian m]

Huh? There is half the bolt length left to further tension the saddle if I felt like destroying it. The bolt hasn't been turned for at least a year, I have no need to tension it any more as it is perfect the way it is

[ian m]

I just realized the picture I posted is strangely squished, don't know how that happened. Still not sure how that would equate to thinking it was stretched beyond the tension bolt

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Now that is one sagged saddle!

[Les Lammers]

John,

The Brooks Imperial is a B-17 with a cut out. I recently got the SA X with cut out for $99. I think I will have to drill it and use a zip tie to fine tune it. If you like the b-17 check out the Imperial.

[stonehog]

I am on the side of thumbs up for SA. I'm a mostly commuter, sometimes rando/bikepacker.  I've tried B17 (good shape, pretty), Rivet Pearl (good shape, too stiff), and Selle Anatomica X (old writeup here: https://stonehog.com/2012/08/02/leathersaddles/), and replaced all my saddles with the Selle Anatomica at this point.  Comfortable from the get go.  I weigh in around 165lb, and have skinny legs, bony butt, so this saddle fits me well.  I've put 300k on these in the rain, and while they may sag, they are comfy.  I can do the B17 for about 100k - anything more, and I will get numbness and soreness.  On the Rivet, I eventually did the Lon Haldeman Brooks break in method (https://stonehog.com/2013/05/29/soften-the-rivet/), but ended up giving the saddle away when that didn't really make things better.  Every butt is unique - everyone needs to try saddles to find the one that works for their butt, distance, style.  

Brian Hanson

Seattle, WA 

[George Schick]

If the B-17 is the wrong shape for drop-bar riding, what about the Team Pro?  I've had several of those over the years on road bikes and the only thing I didn't like about it was the lack of bag loops (which can be rectified by an add-on device).

[Kieran J]

S-A also did an interesting crowdfunded project to make a leaf-dampened full carbon version of their saddle, for you weight weenies out there. 

It looks nuts! And it costs $400.

KJ

[Ron Mc]

that's exactly what Team Pro is for - it's shaped very different from B17

[Bill M.]

It's fine if I click on it to display it in another window.

Bill

[Bill in Roswell GA]

I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side. 

Years ago, I found a 1978 B17 on ebay for $32. I really wanted to try one out without the break-in period. It was like putting on an old pair of bluejeans. Being of thicker leather that Brooks used back then, it is still going strong (it's on my coffee shop bike, ridden 3-5 miles a few times a week in nice weather - never rain!). 

Hope to get a C17 soon as I can find one on sale or have a coupon. 

Cheers,

Bill in Roswell, GA

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I have a Berthoud Mente on my Seven Cafe Racer and I like it just fine. It is thick leather but broke in nicely within a reasonable amount of time. That said, I am thinking of swapping it out for one of my B17 Select spares I have. Not much on the web about them and I agree they seem to be a lower profile option

[Ron Mc]

we just did - good job... I think Berthoud are fine saddles, and it's all my buddy rides.  I've never sprung for one, so couldn't give a review.  

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/08/2016 10:48 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles
> any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more
> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for
> not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as
> I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side.

Well, let's correct that. A few years ago B.17s and Team Pro's stopped
working for me. I'd tried a Berthoud Aspin and found it worked, and did
some unsuccessful experimentation with Rivet & SA. I tried the Rivet
Pearl & Independence, and neither worked for me. I bought a used SA
from a friend, tried it and found it OK for a 30 mile ride, but then
obtained a new one and found it bloody horrible: sharp edges at the
sides of the saddle really cut into my thighs. Over the course of the
next three years ended up switching all six bikes to Berthoud saddles, 5
Aspins and one Aravis. In many ways the Berthoud is a big improvement
over the Brooks design. The leather is better - thicker and more
consistent, tensioning is much easier - allen key fitting rather than a
made-on nut requiring a special S-bend wrench, and the made-on bag
attachments - moulded in eyelets and a Klickfix mount - are vastly
superior to Brooks' metal loops (or nothing). It takes longer to break
in an Aspin than a B.17 because the leather is much thicker and firmer.
Unlike SAs, Berthouds don't stretch much - at least, not the regular
unbutchered ones; I haven't tried the newly introduced slotted models.

Regarding slotted saddles: they don't always work for everyone. On that
broken-in SA I never even noticed a slot was there. Another friend
tried that same saddle when it was on a bike, before I bought it and was
inspired to buy a new one; by the time we got to the 30 mile mark on a
50 mile ride she was in such pain she bought a roll of duct tape to tape
the slot over. It was acting like a lobster claw, pinching her on both
sides of the area slots are intended to protect.

There is no panacea when it comes to saddles.

[George Schick]

"...There is no panacea when it comes to saddles..."

Amen to that.  Also, things change over time.  When I started leaning toward "serious cycling" back in the early 70's I road bikes that the saddle jacked way up higher than the handlebars. It more or less had to be if one wanted to stick to the popular "groupo" of the day because Cinelli bar stems were too short to allow for much vertical adjustment.  So the saddles of choice were the narrower models like the Cinelli's.  Things progressed that way through the mid-90's when they more or less culminated with the Selle Italia Flite, a particularly stiff and narrow model.  About the time the turn of the century when the past-50 blues started playing, I discovered Grant and his various bike fitting methods and recommendations.  Now I ride with the bars level with the saddle and have been using a B17 ever since - far fewer aching back and neck pains after a ride.  

[Les Lammers]

Here are some pics from and old post that compare the B-17 and Berthoud Aspin.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/flickr_lee/sets/72157625777465234/

[Daniel D.]

I think it's about price more than anything.  Berthoud saddles start at what ~$200?  If you saw them on sale for $99 more people would be giving them a try.

[George Schick]

Speaking of price, I surfed around to find out what they (Berthoud's) do cost and the first place that popped up was Wallbike.  But the site just contained an announcement saying that Bill's hanging it up as of Dec. 2nd and easing into retirement.  I hate to see him close down - it always felt like you were doing business with a personal friend whenever you ordered something from him. Best of luck in the sunset years, Bill!

So...it appears that Peter also sells them and, yes, they are rather pricey.  But it's kinda like that post I made last week about the way people object to the price of an Atlantis frame - it's all what you're willing to spend in order to get the quality you want.

[Steve Palincsar]

A couple of things are quite clear in those photographs:

- the Berthoud Aspin is much narrower and cuts inwards sooner than the B.17 as you transition from the widest point in back to the narrow point of the nose

- There's more usable rail space in back

What's not obvious is that although there does not appear to be more rail space in front to allow you to shove the saddle back further, in actual use it feels as though there is more because the shape of the back of the saddle lets you sit farther back.

Those views also show very well that the skirts of the Aspin don't spread out nearly as far as the B.17 (and nothing at all like the nearly horizontal skirts of the SAA).

As for the Aspin's rails being narrower - this isn't anything you notice.

Things to note: that is an early production Aspin, lacking the "rail reinforcement" bracket seen here:

and the saddle shown is new, apparently never been used.  The top is absolutely flat.  Once broken in, the shape becomes more like this:



That's a far cry from the "hammock" you see with SAA or many B.17s, but it's also a long, long way from straight/flat.

-

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/09/2016 11:18 AM, George Schick wrote:

"...There is no panacea when it comes to saddles..."

Amen to that.  Also, things change over time. 

No kidding.  I used Brooks Team Pros for close to 40 years, and B.17s for more than a dozen years with perfect satisfaction, and then one day they started to not work anymore.  It wasn't the saddles that changed, either: I changed.  Position didn't change, fit didn't change, but one year the saddles that felt great now started hurting around the perimeter, especially in the area where the saddle starts to narrow.  Quite a shock, and quite an expense, too.  I'd thought for years that the "saddle merry-go-round" was finally over for me, that I'd found the answer for life; the only major perturbation was the scare when it looked like Brooks was going out of business.

When I started leaning toward "serious cycling" back in the early 70's I road bikes that the saddle jacked way up higher than the handlebars. It more or less had to be if one wanted to stick to the popular "groupo" of the day because Cinelli bar stems were too short to allow for much vertical adjustment.  So the saddles of choice were the narrower models like the Cinelli's.  Things progressed that way through the mid-90's when they more or less culminated with the Selle Italia Flite, a particularly stiff and narrow model.  About the time the turn of the century when the past-50 blues started playing, I discovered Grant and his various bike fitting methods and recommendations.  Now I ride with the bars level with the saddle and have been using a B17 ever since - far fewer aching back and neck pains after a ride. 

And certainly, major changes in fit can call for major changes in saddles.

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[Steve Palincsar]

I've bought several from an ebay store located in Montreal Canada for under $200 and have nothing but good things to say about them.   Clearly not a replacement for Bill Laine, but a worthwhile resource nonetheless.  Also worth knowing about: if you have a question about Berthoud saddles you can contact Berthoud directly via the contact form on their web site, and they will answer you, and they speak English as well as French.

I don't think it's feasible to expect Berthoud saddles to cost $99.  The leather they use is scarce and hard to get, and other than the cleverness in labor savings via automating or mechanizing part of the saddle production process seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7G5RQieccI (the latter quite short) I see zero evidence of any corner-cutting, cost-cutting or penny-pinching going on.

-

[Les Lammers]

I sent my unused SA back today and bought an Aspin with the cutout Bill/Wall Bike has on the auction site. I have an older B-17 that I sent to SA years ago to have the cut out done. It was magic for me. Still like it but this thread pushed me over the edge, :-)

[Daniel D.]

I mentioned $99 SA sale price in the context of people willing to give the saddle a try rather than value.

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 10:00:30 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:

I don't think it's feasible to expect Berthoud saddles to cost $99.  The leather they use is scarce and hard to get, and other than the cleverness in labor savings via automating or mechanizing part of the saddle production process seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7G5RQieccI (the latter quite short) I see zero evidence of any corner-cutting, cost-cutting or penny-pinching going on.

On 12/09/2016 12:30 PM, George Schick wrote:

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[John Hawrylak]

ian m

Is this a SA or a Rivet??

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 11:11:44 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:

[Ron Mc]

SA, definitely not Rivet

[velom...@gmail.com]

Those are definitely NOT Rivet rivets! Not a Rivet, for sure!

- Elton Pope-Lance
Natick, MA

> On Dec 11, 2016, at 4:06 PM, Ron Mc <bulld...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> SA, definitely not Rivet

[Tony DeFilippo]

My old 'wright' leather saddle must have been listening to me rave about the Rivet and decided to give up the ghost...  I think it could have been avoided if I'd tightened up the nose screw a bit but it gave me very satisfactory service this year.  :)  I swapped the Rivet from the Bombadil over to the Saluki as I'm performing a cockpit change on the Bomba right now anyway.  This tear happened about halfway through my return commute on Friday, definitely noticeable but I was able to ride fine with it for the rest of the trip and a couple quick outings in the neighborhood this weekend.

[Ron Mc]

     

high mileage Rivet

[Ron Mc]

Tony, that saddle would develop a worse ridge by tightening the nose screw.  

Only hope would be lacing it.  

[Ron Mc]

oops, just saw the tear - my eye went right to the ridge...