Appaloosa build - beta version

[Bob Lovejoy]

Even though I am still figuring out some crankset/BB issues on a preferred set-up, I could not stand it and built the bike up and went riding!  This is very much the beta release, though the basics are certainly there.  It will, I think, end up with Berthoud fenders, racks (Tubus Cosmo rear, Nitto 27f up front), a B&M LED mounted to the front rack (all from the last of the nice parts stash) and maybe even, at some point, a fancy Rivendell saddle bag?! 

Current build:

Mavic A719 rims, SON front hub, Phil rear, older but very nice 8-speed (12-32) cassette, Schwalbe Mondial tires (700x45 (marked 700x47))

Nitto Bullmoose bars, Tektro City brake levers, Silver shifters mounted on Paul Thumbies, Ergon GP1 cork grips

Old school XT derailleurs

Brooks Cambium C17 saddle - slate

Currently XT M770 triple mountain crankset - eventually will be Sugino AT triple

I love it!!  These words do not come easily but I do believe this is my last real bike and build.  It seems my knee is checking out before the rest of me so the ongoing succession of bikes I have had will slow or end here.  But here, with the Appaloosa as the last, that seems much better than it could be.

Impressions so far...

At times it seems like a big bike, especially when getting it out the door(!), as it is longer and wider than some other bikes.  But standover is perfect though I am accustomed to big bikes.  This is a 58cm and I have a pbh of ~89cm for reference.  I would never be able to ride 62cm though, at least not with the larger tires these bikes call out for.  That said, at times it seems small as well, as it is light on its feet and very maneuverable even at slow speeds and great for exploring.  The Bullmoose bars help with that I think but I have to say I was surprised to find the bars so,  well, relaxed!  I would have thought they would feel a little more aggressive down as low as they go but they are about level with the saddle and feel a little higher than that.  The Appaloosa is just designed to get the bars up high without craziness.  A Nitto stem with other bars could probably lower things if needed, not that I need.  My other preferred bars these days are MAP/Ahearne's but I am not so sure they would be much different than the Bullmoose though experiments are always possible.  I am only guessing but I also believe I could ride this bike with drop bars if I decided (probably with a dirt drop stem), again not that I think I will.  Good to have options and ways to experiment though.

One thing that really worked out well, at least for the moment, is the 8-speed shifting with the Paul Thumbie mounted Silver shifters.  They just work perfectly, intuitively, and beg the question on how shifting could be any easier.  I have always been a friction shifting guy but these take it all to a new level.... perfect for what I wanted.  For reference I am using the special base adapters for using the Silver shifters with the Thumbies.

Anyway, like I said, this is only the first, get it on the road, build.  Apologies for the far less than great pictures as well... more to come and better I hope.  I am lucky enough to have a very special Cheviot as well, so one day I will get pictures of that bike up to Flickr. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21182339@N05/albums/72157682579281726

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[Sky Coulter]

Bob,

It looks great! Seeing it makes me second guess my decision about getting a 55cm.  Hope your knee gets better.  One of the guys i bike across canada w was 68 and had had knee replacement surgery a couple years before.  He was a strong rider and felt like he shoulda had the surgery years earlier.

Sky in new west

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[dougP]

Bob:

Congrats on a beautiful build.  The silver is especially pleasant, and creme head tube a subtle touch.  Nice choice of parts.  I think you're going to appreciate this bike more & more as you spend time on it.  Comfort is king.

dougP

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Sky and thanks...

Except for the strong rider part, I may very well resemble your friend!  I laugh even as I type it, but, yeah, I should probably at least go see(!) a doctor to get their opinion.  I have been so lucky most of my life (and am now 64, so a good run...) that I always believe either self healing or ignoring the problem is the answer.  Worked before, why not now?

Let me know if you want any measurements from my frame or set-up.  I also have a few Nitto stems (including a dirt drop) and bars I could put on to measure things.  I probably would not make it rideable (changing cabling, etc.) but the measurements could be done.  I might do it just to compare reality with perception.  I will say, I had given a little too much weight to reports of long, long top tubes or so it feels at the moment.  Or... maybe some experiments will prove that out.

I was thinking about your idea...  One thing is, if you want bars lower than saddle height, then the smaller frame will definitely help with that.  Also, and people are welcome to laugh at and correct as needed, and I will probably misuse terms, but the effective top tube or reach should increase with more seat post showing.  People always remind that a higher stem height reduces reach so it seems to me a higher seat post should increase that reach.  Maybe negligible, but still...

Anyway, let me know if you want me to measure stuff.  When do you get your frame?? 

Bob

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks!  And I do totally agree about the comfort part.  I might experiment more with handlebars, but only to work out more hand positions and possible lean angles.  We have more than our share of wind here so having ways to work with that might be a good thing.  That said, the bike is absolutely comfortable and fun.  I came home from a short ride with the idea of doing chores or whatever... I came in, I looked at the bike, then outside at the sun, and just went back out for another ride.  The chores waited patiently until I returned... :>)  

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

It's on a truck for delivery to a post office box in blaine. I live across the border in the lower mainland bc, so I'll have to drive down to pick it up.  It should be delivered Tuesday and I'm hoping to get a chance to get down there Wednesday or Thursday.  No need for measurements yet -- I'll be taking my time to set it up. In the end if the fit doesn't work, then I'll probably offer the frame up on the list at a buyer's remorse discount.  But I'm still hopeful it'll work out they way I hope.

Sky in new west 

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Bob, our last names and our Appaloosa builds are likewise similar. Glad to hear you're also enjoying your bike.

- Stuart Lovinggood in Austin

[Andrew Huston]

Can someone speak to the stand over, particularly on a 55? I have one on order now. I did some looking at an old post by Sky and see a SOH of 83.x. I'm a bit worried because I'm on the low end for sizing at 84 PBH. Riv does not list it. I don't think they have any 51 completes now so I'd be in a pinch, literally. I figured the top tube slope would make it a non issue but maybe it could be.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Stuart,

Not only does your bike look perfect but you take much better pictures than I!  Your saddlebag looks great on it, ready for errands or adventure. I actaully lived in Austin way, way, back when, before tech moved there along with other jobs.  When I was there, you either worked for the State or for UT.   I can remember riding my bike on a Sunday shortly after I got there, just riding and riding, then thinking I had "discovered" Lake Travis...  In a way, I suppose I had!  Of course, racing back to tell people of my "discovery" was a little anticlimactic, but hey...

Enjoy the weather and rides - and congrats on the new bike!

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

I asked Will about standover. He measured the 55cm at 83.5cm with the stock tires (40mm i think). I did notice a 51cm silver appa framset on portlands craigslist tonight.

Sky in new west

> On Apr 17, 2017, at 4:18 AM, Andrew Huston <firsttolast...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can someone speak to the stand over, particularly on a 55? I have one on order now. I did some looking at an old post by Sky and see a SOH of 83.x. I'm a bit worried because I'm on the low end for sizing at 84 PBH. Riv does not list it. I don't think they have any 51 completes now so I'd be in a pinch, literally. I figured the top tube slope would make it a non issue but maybe it could be.
>

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Andrew,

I cannot speak to the 55, but on a 58, I measure ~85cm just in front of the saddle, ~86.5-87cm mid-tube, ~89cm at or near the head tube.  That is with Schwalbe Mondial tires, marked 700x47 and sometimes sold as 700x45.  I measure actual tire height (for these) at just a little over 45mm.

Hopefully that is right and also hopefully people can provide measures for the other sizes.

Bob

[Jonathan D.]

I just got a 55 Joe and I don't have much extra for stand over. My PBH is 85. Great bike.

[RichS]

Congratulations on your new Joe! Looks like you're off to a great start. Love the closeup image of the thumb shifter and bell.

Comfort is definitely king in my book too. 

Regards,

Richard

[Philip Kim]

anyone with a joe and fenders know what bolt to use to attach fender L-bracket to the fork crown mount? is it just an M5 bolt? what length do i need?

On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 2:48:50 PM UTC-4, Bob Lovejoy wrote:

[Bob Lovejoy]

I am probably misunderstanding, and definitely let me know if this all sounds wrong, but the fork crown "mount" or hole (front to back of the fork crown) on an Appaloosa is not threaded as far as I can tell and is relatively quite large- an M6 fits.  The depth of the fork crown mount, not taking into account any recesses at the mount point, is 33mm, so maybe 40-42mm?  I would think it would be just a nut and bolt situation, with correct washers (as needed) to protect things. 

Apologies if I am way off on this one...  My eyes and hands know a lot more than my head in these situations.

Bob

[Philip Kim]

thanks bob! that is the info i needed! 

yes u usually have a rack that is mounted through the fork crown hole that allows me to just use the supplied washer and nut to secure the L-bracket. This is the first time that to not be the case.

I'll try to share pictures as well!

[Bob Lovejoy]

Evolution... Now with racks and front, low bags and a basket!  I was playing around with a decaleur hack (a few pics in the Flickr album) but, to a bit of surprise, I did not like it.  A case of the bike quietly saying how and what it wants to be I think.  For lack of the right nuts and bolts, I used the higher mounting on the rear rack, though the lower eyelets might have put the rack too low.  Someone in a previous thread said to be aware that the the various mount eyelets shift between M5's and M6's and they were exactly right.  Take a look and check before assuming anything if you mount racks or whatever.

Anyway, the current status, and likely to stay close to this for awhile.  Turns out the bike has not yet decided whether it wants fenders...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21182339@N05/33968050652/in/album-72157682579281726/

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

Bob,

What front rack is that and where did u pick it up?

Thanks,

Sky in new west

[Bob Lovejoy]

Sky,

It is a Nitto 27f and I have now bought a couple from Ben's Cycle.  They are available other places I'm sure, but Ben's is close enough to me for good service and a somewhat local feel, if from afar...!

http://www.benscycle.com/p-2096-nitto-campee-27f-front-rack-700c.aspx

I have one on the Cheviot and one now for the Joe.  If you order (from wherever), be aware you will also need short Nitto rods since the 27f defaults to mounting to the cantilever mount points.  With the rods, you can use the eyelets that are below the cantilevers on the Joe.  I think I bought the shortest Ben's had but I can check the length and let you know.

Off to ride just a bit before the rain gets here...  I really do love this bike!

Bob

[Sky Coulter]

Thanks Bob.

Glad you're enjoying it. My frame arrived yesterday and i drove down after my night shift to pick it up.  It's really quite nicely made and the paint job is terrific.  I put wheel, a saddle and a cokpit on to compare the size/fit with my saluki.

It looks like it'll work exactly the way i wanted it to so far.  I'm excited but not sure if it'll be a slow or fast build yet.

--

[Bob Lovejoy]

That is excellent!  I will look forward to seeing the build as it progresses.  I know having the time and the pieces and parts all together in the same solar day is harder than it looks.

Not that I have had that many really nice bikes, a handful really, but I love riding this bike more than any other I can remember, maybe back to being a kid on my 2-speed kickback Stingray.  It seems it is the perfect bike for me just now and coming at a perfect time.  I walk by it and just want to go out and ride, to wander aimlessly, to explore...  And, the best part, then I do!  If only a tour of the neighborhood, up and down some hills and driveways, maybe down a street I have wondered about... It's a gift, this bike, and I am grateful...

Best to you and congratulations on the new project!  Keep us posted...

Bob

[REC]

Bob,

The silver is a lovely color (the one I lusted for...) and the bike looks beautiful!!!!  Do you notice a difference in riding feel between the Cambium C17 and the leather B17?    Also, how do you like the titanium lock?    I had read some good things about it. 

As my father would say "ride it in good health!"

Roberta

[Bob Lovejoy]

Hi Roberta... and thanks!

I will say that the B17 and C17 do feel different, but both can work great.  The C17, for me, has a better chance of working well and not hurting me right out of the box.  The B17's can take some time to get to that point,  The other side of that is the C17 will most likely always be the same, where the B17 should improve over time and miles.  There are also leather treatments (Proofide, Obenauf's, etc.) that can help the improvement process along.

The other thing I do like about the Cambium's versus the leather saddles is that the Cambium's are not hurt by wet weather or certainly not hurt the way a leather saddle can be.  Wet does not necessarily hurt the leather but riding it when it is wet can.  That's where saddle covers or even plastic bags come in handy but I was forever forgetting to have one with me. The recommended leather treatments help with all of that but I would still use a cover or whatever if needed.

Not that I am still in the market, but I have wanted to try one of the C19's (wider than the C17 but same construction) for more upright bikes but I have not had one .

Also, I really like the Tigr lock!  It is light, fairly strong, easy to carry.  I don't trust any lock to keep a bike safe for long, unattended periods, but the Tigr lock is so light I always have it with me, either in its clip or in my bag or pack.  I bought a pair when they had their Kickstarter and if I am being especially careful I can use the two to lock both the frame and the front wheel separately,  Even with the two locks, they are much lighter than one big heavy lock.

Hope that helps and thanks for the good wishes!  

Bob