So many Rivs on the chopping block

[Daniel Jackson]

Why so many great Rivs for sale on the list recently? What are folks moving to this riding season and why? 

[Philip Kim]

No replacement for me. Mine was to near future stuff in my life not bike-related

[Jeff Lesperance]

I've kept one Riv in the bike stable (my Rosco v2), but my recent sale of my Hillborne was in favor of a similar style of bike, but one that takes disc brakes, an All-City Space Horse Disc. Previously, when I wanted to add a rougher-stuff bike to my bike stable, oversize tires and, again, disc brakes were a requirement, and I added a Surly Troll and subtracted a Romulus. In both cases a Hillborne/Appaloosa and a Hunq would have worked, if disc brakes were an option.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why so many great Rivs for sale on the list recently? What are folks moving to this riding season and why? 

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[Eric Norris]

I still have two Rivs in my stable–I recently sold a bike that was more or less a duplicate of another that I ride more often.

I’ve also started tending toward riding my Alex Singers more often, particularly now that I have one with a little more beausage. As Grant would likely predict, having a bike that’s not quite so perfect makes me feel freer about getting it out in the real world. Ditto for my Riv Road, which has not paint other than a home-applied clear coat over bare metal.

--Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

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[Addison Wilhite]

I adore my Riv Allrounder and all of things I can do with it.  And Riv continues to make gorgeous bikes of course.  But I think the lack of disc brakes hurts them as far as being a practical option, at least in this area Sierras/Reno with our rocky trails.  I've done years of "underbiking"  but at this point if I'm going the places I want to go for a sub 24 hour or day trip, I want the stoppers. Curious if others are migrating in that direction...anyway, here is my riv in various forms of riding builds.  All wonderful and fun! 

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/01/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all.html

Addison Wilhite, M.A. 

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”

Educator: Professional Portfolio

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

[drew]

Selling a Sam (and eventually a hunq), but have an order in for a 650b Atlantis. More of a minimalizing my life decision. Trying to get down to one bike and be satisfied. If I had tons of space, and a slightly better income, I'd have one of each riv model. I still think I'm gonna eventually pick up a mixte

[Chris Lampe 2]

Love the Allrounder!  What size frame?  Are the wheels 26"?  I don't know if I've ever read that all the Riv Allrounders were 26" but I've assumed they were.  

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 9:06:43 AM UTC-5, Addison wrote:

I adore my Riv Allrounder and all of things I can do with it.  And Riv continues to make gorgeous bikes of course.  But I think the lack of disc brakes hurts them as far as being a practical option, at least in this area Sierras/Reno with our rocky trails.  I've done years of "underbiking"  but at this point if I'm going the places I want to go for a sub 24 hour or day trip, I want the stoppers. Curious if others are migrating in that direction...anyway, here is my riv in various forms of riding builds.  All wonderful and fun! 

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/01/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all.html

Addison Wilhite, M.A. 

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”

Educator: Professional Portfolio

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Eric Norris <campyo...@me.com> wrote:

I still have two Rivs in my stable–I recently sold a bike that was more or less a duplicate of another that I ride more often.

I’ve also started tending toward riding my Alex Singers more often, particularly now that I have one with a little more beausage. As Grant would likely predict, having a bike that’s not quite so perfect makes me feel freer about getting it out in the real world. Ditto for my Riv Road, which has not paint other than a home-applied clear coat over bare metal.

--Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

On Jun 21, 2017, at 4:32 AM, Jeff Lesperance <jeff.le...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've kept one Riv in the bike stable (my Rosco v2), but my recent sale of my Hillborne was in favor of a similar style of bike, but one that takes disc brakes, an All-City Space Horse Disc. Previously, when I wanted to add a rougher-stuff bike to my bike stable, oversize tires and, again, disc brakes were a requirement, and I added a Surly Troll and subtracted a Romulus. In both cases a Hillborne/Appaloosa and a Hunq would have worked, if disc brakes were an option.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why so many great Rivs for sale on the list recently? What are folks moving to this riding season and why? 

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[James Warren]

When Riv started, 26" for All Rounder was THE way to go. It was almost the only way to get good tires with 2" width. So like with the 26" Bridgestone XO's, I always considered the supreme All-Rounders as synonymous with 26" wheels. When Riv started getting more bikes built in the later 90's, they indicated that a large frame like a 63 cm couldn't be made to look good with 26" wheels and wouldn't do it. (The late 90's All-Rounder in large sizes were listed as for 700C wheels, with a statement nearby saying that the tire selection in this wheel size was improving. The very first Riv frame catalogs - pages of Reader #2, for example - had indicated that all AR's would be 26" and I hadn't considered that the largest would change that.) This caused a bit of a stir among us taller people, because we saw Riv as one of our large frame purveyors but in considering an All-Rounder, many of us wanted 26" wheels, because we had grown accustomed to thinking that's where the good wide tires be.

Shortly before the Atlantis, 700C x 2" options started to get better and by 2000, things were changing a lot. I got my Atlantis in 2001 with zero qualms about tire width availability. 650B was revived a few years a later.

[Deacon Patrick]

I ride my Hunqapillar in all weather and conditions and on steep mountain trails, including bikepacking. I have disk brakes that also happen to be rim breaks. I stop and slow just fine.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 8:06:43 AM UTC-6, Addison wrote:

I adore my Riv Allrounder and all of things I can do with it.  And Riv continues to make gorgeous bikes of course.  But I think the lack of disc brakes hurts them as far as being a practical option, at least in this area Sierras/Reno with our rocky trails.  I've done years of "underbiking"  but at this point if I'm going the places I want to go for a sub 24 hour or day trip, I want the stoppers. Curious if others are migrating in that direction...anyway, here is my riv in various forms of riding builds.  All wonderful and fun! 

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/01/rivendell-allrounder-jack-of-all.html

Addison Wilhite, M.A. 

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”

Educator: Professional Portfolio

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:43 AM, Eric Norris <campyo...@me.com> wrote:

I still have two Rivs in my stable–I recently sold a bike that was more or less a duplicate of another that I ride more often.

I’ve also started tending toward riding my Alex Singers more often, particularly now that I have one with a little more beausage. As Grant would likely predict, having a bike that’s not quite so perfect makes me feel freer about getting it out in the real world. Ditto for my Riv Road, which has not paint other than a home-applied clear coat over bare metal.

--Eric N

www.CampyOnly.com

CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com

Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

On Jun 21, 2017, at 4:32 AM, Jeff Lesperance <jeff.le...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've kept one Riv in the bike stable (my Rosco v2), but my recent sale of my Hillborne was in favor of a similar style of bike, but one that takes disc brakes, an All-City Space Horse Disc. Previously, when I wanted to add a rougher-stuff bike to my bike stable, oversize tires and, again, disc brakes were a requirement, and I added a Surly Troll and subtracted a Romulus. In both cases a Hillborne/Appaloosa and a Hunq would have worked, if disc brakes were an option.

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Daniel Jackson <daniel.se...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why so many great Rivs for sale on the list recently? What are folks moving to this riding season and why? 

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[James Warren]

Ditto to all of that. If I streamlined to one bike, this would be it.

-----Original Message-----
From: Deacon Patrick
Sent: Jun 21, 2017 8:59 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] So many Rivs on the chopping block

[Garth]

It seems most people who are selling one have multiple Riv and/or other bikes. I find 2 bikes to be about right, I can after all only ride one bike no matter how many I could possibly own.

The disc brake mentions have me wondering aloud, what did people do before disc brakes ? Of course we all know the answer. I do find it rather odd how the whole "gravel bike" thing is associated with disc brakes. My oh my..... I have ridden gravel roads since the 80's and somehow I and others all survived and thrived. People will say anything to sell a new product, and that's what the parts mfrs. want you to believe disc brakes are a requirement to riding a bike. Reminds me of mobile phones and now smartphones, that somehow you cannot exist without constantly being tethered to something to keep you occupied. Now I need disc brakes they say, or else I am in danger from not controlling this that and the other condition, obstacle or circumstance. Frankly, I need nothing to be being, since to be anything I must first and absolutely be being.

[Chris Lampe 2]

Thanks for that bit of Riv history.   

[Jock Dewey]

Good points, Garth. 

One of our heroes (some of us here anyway), Jobst Brandt, likely pedaled hundred and hundreds of miles on gravel wearing tubulars and Campy modulators rather than brakes...as did thousands of hardy TdF riders BITD. But trends do gain momentum, I suppose. 

It seems to me also quite likely the concept of 'gravel bike' was created by brilliant bike industry minds looking for ways to sell more stuff. I'd probably be concerned if I thought the availability of the disc brakes we have been using so capably and safely for 80 or 90 years (much of that on gravel for sure) was going away, but clearly it isn't...nor will it anytime soon, thankfully, IMHO.

BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

[Daniel D.]

I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Are you listening?
Plastics.

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The disc brake mentions have me wondering aloud, what did people do before disc brakes ? 

...

They didn't swap wheelsets with different diameters and wildly different width tires in a matter of seconds, or at all, with caliper, canti or v-brakes. 

Arguing that one brake stops better than another in all possible situations with all possible riders is a not likely an argument worth making, regardless of the brake that you'd represent. 

The ability to swap wheel sizes and tire widths in ways that was not previously available to me was not my original focus in moving to disc brakes, but, it has become a great feature, when selecting the right bike frame, to be able to maintain fewer complete bikes with an extra wheelset or two, to be able to satisfy a wider range of riding situations. 

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

 

[EasyRider]

Can you describe the wheelsets/swapping you do? I have a disc bike, and with high-quality tires in the 650b x 40-50mm range, I don't anticipate swapping very often, if at all.

[Jim Bronson]

Agree, if that's the only reason for preferring discs, it's a solution
in search of a problem.

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[iamkeith]

Funny - to me, the abilty to swap wheel sizes has ALWAYS been the best selling point of disk brakes, but that might be because im primarily a mountain biker. That said, i admittedly swap less than i could, if even at all. I prefer my fat 26" front wheel to the 29er front wheel so much in general, that im willing to live with the few disadvantages the rest of the time. On the other hand, im planning to get a second set of 27x3 wheels for my wife's snow bike (to replace the 26 x 4.8) for summer use, which will essentially allow it to serve as the "regular" mountain bike that she doesn't otherwise have at the moment.

The real selling point for disk brakes now though, is rim availability. There's just not enough available in the widths i prefer, and i worry about there being even less in the future. Not unlike the concession to finally use 700c wheels on the all rounder, i wonder if Riv will eventually be forced to use disks on their more off-roady models.

Not saying i prefer disks (i don't ), or that i think that's why there are so many used bikes for sale. ( i dont... However i DO think that a common desire for the ability fit wider tires and rims might have something to do with it.)

[franklyn]

I haven't owned a riv in 5 years. The last one I had was a Bleriot. I really preferred the low-trail front end geometry, and Bleriot was too stout and didn't have enough tire clearance. I have 5 bikes, and might trim down to 3 or 4 one day. All of them use rim brakes and 650b wheels. 42mm tires are the skinniest I ride these days. I have two bikes that will take up to 55mm knobs with fenders, so clearly I have bikes to ride quite a different varieties of terrains. 

Given all that, the benefit of disc brakes for me is one based not on functions per se, but on availability of nice rims. There are less than a handful of lightweight and well-made 650b rim-brake rims, whereas the selection for 650b/27.5 disc-only rims is huge. Given that I have 5 bikes to ride and also have horded several spare rims, market forces aren't likely push me to switch to disc brakes any time soon, but it's a nagging concern for sure.

Franklyn

[Garth]

     While I understand the surface appeal of swapping out wheels for wildly different tires, I wonder though, what about the handling with such varying sets ?   For example, I ask myself...... would I want to ride my Bomba with really fat tires and road tires ?   No.   And would I want to ride really fat tires on my road bike ? No.   I say this because bike frames are designed with a certain handling and feel within a relatively small range of tire widths. This includes not just the dimensions of the frame itself but also the type, shape and gauge of steel. Then you have handlebars and how controlling the bike will feel with vastly different tires.

   I get "the sell" of a chameleon do-it-all like bike, but myself I don't spend alot of time thinking about my bikes when I'm not riding, nor do I want to. When I want to ride I just want to ride, the less tinkering the better.  Even swapping wheels means I still need another set of wheels, same as on another whole bike. I live with 2 different bikes and like that I have distinctly different bikes ready to go at-hand.

  For the while minimal-ism thing, would not one bike and one bike alone be "minimal" ?  Adding another set of wheels make it minimal +1 ..... oh well . what's a little fudging in a "standard" that cannot be ever be met ? Ahahahahaha ! 

 
   Different strokes for different folks of course, and so no one can be more/less right/wrong than anyone else !

 
    ( this Google groups formatting when trying to compose a message is uh ..... wonky at best !)

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 1:17:43 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:

...

They didn't swap wheelsets with different diameters and wildly different width tires in a matter of seconds, or at all, with caliper, canti or v-brakes. 

[Philip Kim]

Good points, I think bikers gotten along just fine with rim brakes before disc brakes came along. And I also think that since then, the options for the kinds of terrain that can be ridden on a bike have really opened up.

You can easily bike on sand, snow, rock gardens pretty easily. Of course some of these routes and terrain have been traversed by rim brakes, but aren't we here because the idea of biking comfortably appeals to us? Sometimes that comfort can come in disc brakes, whether really wide tires dictates, or whether we feel it has predictable stopping power regardless of weather / terrain conditions. Sometimes it can come in the form of suspension forks. 

I regularly took my canti brake VO Camargue out the local mtb trails which are very rooty and rocky, and while it was fun the first couple of times, I stopped going as it became less and less so.

My first run-in with disc brakes were about 10 years ago, and I was not impressed. However, when I test rode a Crust Evasion with Paul Klampers, I was very impressed.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/21/2017 02:56 PM, Philip Kim wrote:
> Good points, I think bikers gotten along just fine with rim brakes
> before disc brakes came along. And I also think that since then, the
> options for the kinds of terrain that can be ridden on a bike have
> really opened up.
>
> You can easily bike on sand, snow, rock gardens pretty easily. Of
> course some of these routes and terrain have been traversed by rim
> brakes, but aren't we here because the idea of biking comfortably
> appeals to us? Sometimes that comfort can come in disc brakes, whether
> really wide tires dictates, or whether we feel it has predictable
> stopping power regardless of weather / terrain conditions. Sometimes
> it can come in the form of suspension forks.
>
> I regularly took my canti brake VO Camargue out the local mtb trails
> which are very rooty and rocky, and while it was fun the first couple
> of times, I stopped going as it became less and less so.

How will disc brakes make riding a rooty rocky MTB trail more comfortable?

[Jim Bronson]

There was a long thread on the 650B group about the continued
availability of rim brake 650B, what with the popularity of "27.5"
disk-specific rims. I think the final conclusion was "not to worry,
they will remain available".

[Max S]

On the topic of rim availability... Has anyone tried using a "disc brake rim" that has a reasonable wall profile and thickness with rim brakes?.. (I think there are enough folks on this list that don't care too much about machined brake tracks that would be fine letting the brake pads and road grit take care of that...) 

- Max

[iamkeith]

Brakes dont make it more comfortable but those fat tires and wide rims, which aren't available with rim brake compatibility, sure do.

[iamkeith]

Max, the velocity cliffhanger is exactly what you describe.

[Ed Carolipio]

Three thoughts:

(a) I read your title as: "So many Rivs on the chopping block ... but none in my size." :)

(b) I think summer is peak bike selling season: I get more interest when I sell in the summer, and it makes sense that folks want to play with their shiny new toys right away.

(c) This thread is starting to go off the rails on the disc brakes thingy

[RJM]

I sold all my Rivs...had three at one time. (Roadeo, Sam Hillborne, Atlantis)

What happened to me was getting heavily involved in mountain biking and I moved away from commuting by bike. I don't even bike camp anymore, so the ability to tote a bunch of stuff on my bike just isn't a selling point for me anymore. It really is just a priority change. I could purchase a Riv again if they came out with a mountain bike specific frame that wasn't just a touring bike built burlier...and I would prefer disc brakes. I know Riv doesn't do them, but for what I ride and for how I ride, hydraulic disc brakes are far superior to cantis or even v-brakes. But, I could see getting a "mountain mixte" custom Rivendell made. There was one in a Riv Reader a few years back that I could see duplicating for some of the trails I ride. I currently have a full suspension bike (Santa Cruz Hightower)  and a rigid steel hardtail (Niner Sir9) set up single speed, both 29ers and both ride great for what I'm riding. Lots of smiles on those bikes.

My since sold Sam Hillborne with v-brakes could easily be a competent modern day gravel bike. I rode that bike all over on the gravel and cannot see much besting it. The Roadeo was a really great road bike; in fact I just had someone ask me about it the other day and said how awesome it was. Gorgeous bike that rode great. I'm just not much into riding on the road anymore...too many people out to kill you with their cars around my area which has scared me off the road. I'm not too proud to admit it.

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 5:51:16 AM UTC-5, Daniel Jackson wrote:

[Ryan Fleming]

Amen to that, brother about road riding in general...

 . I'm just not much into riding on the road anymore...too many people out to kill you with their cars around my area which has scared me off the road. I'm not too proud to admit it

Which may be a very good reason why gravel road/offroad riding appeals 

And a few people have mentioned age and accident related injuries which unfortunately changes how you ride and what works for you back on the topic of Rivs on the chopping block

[Mark in Beacon]

Yes, indeed. I second most of the points Garth has made about discs in general and about swapping wheels. But, this whole debate over discs, and man, if Riv would only make a disc bike, I would buy it in a minute, and that's why I sold mine, or whatever--hasn't it already been well-covered? Are we adding anything new? I know forums like iBob and RBW do have their perennial topics, but I confess I find this one particularly unproductive. And there's this:

RBW Owners Bunch - Dedicated to the discussion of Rivendell Bicycles and products
Ride reports encouraged, as is a respectful, supportive and polite tone in all posts.
This group is not endorsed by Rivendell Bicycle Works.  You don't need to own one - just an interest in RBW designs is enough to join in.

So why keep beating this poor old dead horse?  I think we can all agree: There are those who would like Rivendell to make a bike with discs. 2.Right now, Rivendell does not make disc bikes, and has not announced plans to do so. 3. Ergo, technically, disc bike discussions are off topic on this list. 4. I realize that is a drastic interpretation, but still...can we stifle ourselves a bit?

Mark "Remaining Polite But Feeling a Touch Grouchy" in Beacon

P.S. I admire RBW for remaining a No-Disc Zone. But I would still admire them if they felt the need to release a disc model. In fact, I sometimes wish they would, if only to nullify these thread drifts!;^) .

[drew]

Well I sold my Sam today, so that's one less riv for sale.

[Dan A]

FYI I think the Riv tandem can accept a rear disc brake.

Dan

[Philip Kim]

Yep

[Hugh Smitham]

In my experience, speed modulation on a dime so you don't hit that obstruction and become uncomfortable in a thicket.

~hugh

[Garth]

 
    And back to the topic at hand , I look at it as keeping the frames circulating. Frames like being ridden , to run wild, like a horse !  Yee-haw !!!  Let 'em run, let 'em run !

 The disc brake thing is relevant here since it may be a reason why some Riv's are being sold.  It also just happens to be topic in general these days among all cyclists.

 

 If find this group to be the least contentious of the many I have seen and participated in. Quite respectable, even in dis-agreements. I always ask myself," would I want to speak to myself in this manner ?" , because in every sense I am . 

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 6:38 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

 
    And back to the topic at hand , I look at it as keeping the frames circulating. Frames like being ridden , to run wild, like a horse !  Yee-haw !!!  Let 'em run, let 'em run !

I like this idea a lot, and have been practicing something along this line via a phrase that I borrowed from fellow list member Marty (G?) whom I met up with in-real-life to purchase a Handsome XOXO frameset - to whom I swore that the bike in question ought to be something akin to a semi-holy-grail bike to which he responded in kind with something to the effect that he "practices catch and release with even the best of bikes"

I was already in possession of a Sam Hillborne at the time, that I swore was "the best bike I'll ever own" and went on to add an A Homer Hilsen and Romulus along his side. At the rate that I had been acquiring bikes, always out of want vs. need, I came to an agreement with myself that I had to trim the collection to a reasonable number and that I would not keep any bikes that I can't or won't ride regularly. I categorized all of the riding that I prefer to do and figured out how many bikes ought to be able to satisfy that range of riding, comfortably, and settled on 5 bikes to do the job. So I set out to "release" some of the "caught" bikes and identify the bikes that satisfied a riding category but could be improved upon, and I set out in the next phase to release those bikes.

When I acquired my Rivendells, they were all holy grail bikes for me. I established an emotional bond with all of them. I was comforted in releasing them with the thought that their next owner may establish the same bond with them, and hopefully ride them as much or more than I did. It just so happens that one of my riding needs is well satisfied by a Rosco v2, and "I'll never get rid of it as it's not only great, it's one of only a dozen or so..." - time will tell the truth.

[Joe Bernard]

I sold my Appaloosa partially to cover a big bill, and partially because I mostly ride ebikes now. As Garth referenced, I feel rather strongly that Rivs should be ridden so I moved it along to a nice lady who would ride it. Will I have another Riv eventually? Probably!

[Clayton.sf]

Adding my $0.02

I like discs for mud and for "real" MTB applications:

- For mud because that is when rims get more chewed up by rim brakes,

- For MTB applications because it allows me more easily to run WIDE rims with big fat tires. 

For Stopping in dirt situation I have generally found caliper brakes to be perfectly adequate. I break traction way before I reach maximum braking power anyway. 

For general riding (road, commuting, country riding, fire roads, touring) I much prefer traditional rim brakes (cantis, sidep, centerp, etc) for numerous reasons:

- Needs less overbuild in frame and fork = more compliant

- Easy to SEE how much pad life is left since they are out in the open

- Work well with quick releases since the forces are less. For good disc braking experience through axle is the the only way to go unless you resort to RWS skewers IMO

- More margin betw. rim and brake to adjust for rub. Disc brakes usually have much tighter clearances and make it a much more fiddly affair to get rid of rub (applies mostly to hydros)

- Typically lighter weight

- Less wheel dish for the same hub width

- Pads tend to last longer

- No fade (although new ice tec rotors fade negligibly) 

Of my 4 bicycles only the Jones Plus has discs and for that bike they are perfect. For my Boulder, Cheviot, and Bob Jackson I am much happier with rim brakes.

That being said, the selection of quality rims and 135mm rear hubs for rim brakes is not growing. There is still a good amount left and no need for panic, but it is noticeable.

Wheel size swapping is nice to have I guess but not a big selling point for me. I would rather ride the "right" size for a given frame.

Clayton Scott

SF, CA

[Belopsky]

Gravel bike

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVn0L7rDCX7/?taken-by=belopsky

[Mark in Beacon]

It's relevant to this post if it is the reason someone sold their Riv. In my opinion it was veering beyond that. And there are lots of "general topic" bike forums. And I am not saying anyone, myself included, is being disrespectful--just agreeing with Ed that the the thread was drifting. And yes, I know the Hubbub can take a rear disc, thanks. I still feel comfortable classifying  Rivendell as a bicycle company that does not do disc brakes. And sure, I'm being a (good-natured, I promise) crosspatch.  And apparently I am in the minority as well. Carry on! I shall let go of my little pet peeve and bow out of the DISCussion...

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Someone on the list recently was talking about pricing, with respect to the fact that Riv has been in business for many years now and produced many bikes, increasing the supply and somewhat regulating resale prices. I think the same increase in supply could be a big factor in this apparent uptick in FS bikes. It's pretty common for avid cyclists to sell and buy new bikes at a regular interval, and although Rivs are nice there's always that shiny new thing just out of reach. 

Also disc brakes are the literal worst

JUST KIDDING

But seriously I've had terrible luck with discs and won't go back until there are drastic overhauls of available mechanical disc systems (if that ever happens). 

[Patrick Moore]

I see no sin in saying on this list that one would like a Rivendell with disc brakes, as long as one doesn't become tiresome about it and as long as one asserts this thought simply as one's preference. I'd like a Hunq with disc brakes. 

Riv eventually accepted tig welding, despite early promises that it would never do so. Discs: maybe one day?

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30% Supply and Demand discount, listmembers only, on all resume, LinkedIn, and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's more! 10% kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price contract. And still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, or frame and parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 to 1961. See my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.

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Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten

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[Orc]

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 2:10:24 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:

 

So why keep beating this poor old dead horse?  I think we can all agree: There are those who would like Rivendell to make a bike with discs. 2.Right now, Rivendell does not make disc bikes, and has not announced plans to do so. 3. Ergo, technically, disc bike discussions are off topic on this list. 

It's unfortunate that Riv frames are pretty expensive, because it would not be all that difficult to modify one to take disc brakes.   The fork would be the stumbling point, because even though Riv forks are pretty stout you'd still need to braze/weld a rib along the back of the caliper blade and that takes it from an easy afternoon project to a couple of days of cutting & fitting so that the rib will actually work and not end up peeling loose to be shortly followed by the blade jackknifing over the remains.

-david parsons 

[Austin ^]

When I first got (back) into riding a number of years ago the sam hillborne was pretty much my dream bike. I rode several bikes, enjoyed them, saved my money and eventually got my sam. A couple of years passed and riv released the cheviot, and I acquired one. After some time on both bikes I started to feel like they were functionally too similar, despite my enjoyment of both I knew I wanted something with a little more teeth but still rivvish, as my perspective hadn't changed that much. I sold the cheviot to fund a romanceur, philisophically in the same department but with a few changes. I feel like it's the best of both worlds, I can take out a low trail fatter tire disc brake romo with sporty components or I can bring out my fendered, rim brake, triple front derailer, fully racked hillborne depending on what my ride is going to look like, and either way I'm picking a fully lugged steel workhorse that I know I can depend on no matter what. The crust takes hundred mile days of mixed pavement, flooded gravel, and singletrack without blinking. The riv drinks up road miles whether they be back country blacktop or fire roads in the mountains for days and days. But both are different enough that I don't feel like I have redundancy and I'm glad I have the variety, but they're both really similar bikes at their cores. I can definitely see if someone has many rivs and wants even greater variety, decisions have to be made. We're in a really good time for bikes right now, there has even been talk we're orbiting into another golden age, and variety is the spice.

[Doug Bloch]

Here's one that popped up locally on Craigslist. Practically my dream bike, but so far out of my reach cost-wise.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/6179737154.html

Doug

[Nash Taylor]

I dont think anyone has said they need disc brakes to stop. Most people have bikes with both types of brakes. Its just something different and while not everyone will choose them, they do stop more quickly and easily. Is that a requirement? No. Will some people choose it? Yes. Will some people decide they dont need or want it? Yes.

I have had bikes with disc brakes and as a mechanic have worked on many many, of all quality. I prefer rim brakes because I prefer to deal with their drawbacks than the drawbacks of disc brakes, of which there are a few, in my personal opinion. But its a strange all or nothing argument that pops up around this issue. I dont think that makes any sense

[Matt B.]

For folks interested in a disc-braked rivendell, take a look at the Crust Romanceur.  It's lugged steel, has 1" threaded steerer (bonus in my book), and definitely rivendellian geometry, though perhaps more 90's to mid-2000's riv than current.

[Patrick Moore]

I get a trail of 38 mm; rather lower than that of Rivs, no?

Otherwise, it looks very nice. 

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[Matt B.]

Fair enough. Was thinking more about the longish chainstays, slack STA & lowish BB, (e.g. size-up-able geometry) than of fork offset. 

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

I get a trail of 38 mm; rather lower than that of Rivs, no?

Otherwise, it looks very nice. 

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Matt B. <matthi...@gmail.com> wrote:

For folks interested in a disc-braked rivendell, take a look at the Crust Romanceur.  It's lugged steel, has 1" threaded steerer (bonus in my book), and definitely rivendellian geometry, though perhaps more 90's to mid-2000's riv than current.

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 12:04:28 PM UTC-4, Nash Taylor wrote:

I dont think anyone has said they need disc brakes to stop. Most people have bikes with both types of brakes.  Its just something different and while not everyone will choose them, they do stop more quickly and easily.  Is that a requirement?  No.  Will some people choose it? Yes.  Will some people decide they dont need or want it? Yes.  

I have had bikes with disc brakes and as a mechanic have worked on many many, of all quality.  I prefer rim brakes because I prefer to deal with their drawbacks than the  drawbacks of disc brakes, of which there are a few, in my personal opinion.  But its a strange all or nothing argument that pops up around this issue.  I dont think that makes any sense

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[Matt B.]

P.S. I've also read on this list about folks who've modded their Rivs with higher offset forks from e.g. Tom Matchak with reportedly satisfactory results, so if there happens to be any overlap in interest with disc brakes...  :)

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

I get a trail of 38 mm; rather lower than that of Rivs, no?

Otherwise, it looks very nice. 

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Matt B. <matthi...@gmail.com> wrote:

For folks interested in a disc-braked rivendell, take a look at the Crust Romanceur.  It's lugged steel, has 1" threaded steerer (bonus in my book), and definitely rivendellian geometry, though perhaps more 90's to mid-2000's riv than current.

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 12:04:28 PM UTC-4, Nash Taylor wrote:

I dont think anyone has said they need disc brakes to stop. Most people have bikes with both types of brakes.  Its just something different and while not everyone will choose them, they do stop more quickly and easily.  Is that a requirement?  No.  Will some people choose it? Yes.  Will some people decide they dont need or want it? Yes.  

I have had bikes with disc brakes and as a mechanic have worked on many many, of all quality.  I prefer rim brakes because I prefer to deal with their drawbacks than the  drawbacks of disc brakes, of which there are a few, in my personal opinion.  But its a strange all or nothing argument that pops up around this issue.  I dont think that makes any sense

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