WTTry: MKS Toe clips and leather straps

[Deacon Patrick]

Anyone have a beat up pair of toe clips (and mounting hardware) and leather straps I could try? I’ve got big feet (12 in summer, 14 in winter with boiled wool socks), but wear minimalist shoes, so not sure what that means for sizing on the toe clips. I presume bigger is better, but part of this test is to get a sizing reference.

Thought I’d check here before I buy a test pair new and get my first purchase all wrong. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[ted]

I’ll suggest the soma deep two gate toe clips size large, work well with my keen sandals, albeit only size 11.
I suspect normal toe clips are going to give you an eronious poor opinion of what clips and straps can offer.
If your sandals are thin soled and you want to try normal height clips I have a pair of unused soma dual gate clips size large (I’m fairly sure on the size) I could send you.
Do you particularly want leather, as opposed to nylon toe straps?
Also, the mks urban pedals are great for no cleat shoes and toe clips. Much nicer than sylvans and such. Particularly after you cut off the tabs on the crank side of the pedal platform.

[Patrick Moore]

Patrick: I foresee ... the beginning of a slippery slope to Look Keos and Time XPros and what have you. Or perhaps to old Duegis and track pedals and slotted cleats. Beware.

Seriously, I think indeed it's worth trying clips and straps, even if you don't like them. If you can't find a pair of leather straps with your used clips, LMK and I'll look around (I may have cut mine down to use with saddlebags, but I do have a bagful.) You are welcome to any I have, as I need just 1 pair, for the Dahon.

As for size, you can always shim them out with spacers; I wear 10s, but like my clips far from my toes, so I do this with Large MKS clips. I also bend my metal ones to give a higher clearance over the instep of the shoe.

Let us know how they work for you.

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[Ron Mc]

Hey Deac, 

I have some decent cyan-blue nylon XL toe clips I can offer you (will have to check on straps, but may still have these blue somewhere).  

you definitely don't want beat-up leather straps - either the reinforced Christophe fabric type, or the really good Binda-repro $70 straps.  

  

what you discover with the cheap leather straps is they turn around against your shoe when you're trying to ingress your foot and will make you reject clips and straps right away.  

The good reinforced straps are stiff enough to hold their shape and provide a donut that your foot easily gets through.  

[Ron Mc]

2nd rule of clips/straps - you need shoes with good shanks.  

(don't have to be these, Chrome Kursk et.al. will do the job)

With clips and pista or touring pedals, you ride so totally on the ball of your foot that without proper shoes, part of your pedal energy goes into straining your arch, and you'll wake up after a long ride with plantar fascitis.  

[Patrick Moore]

I feel obliged to offer a different experience. I rode cheap (no lower than Avocet; Christophe and other middle class ones, mostly, and very often well used) straps in boat shoes -- though nice ones -- for years without problems of this sort, even with straps kept permanently semi-tight. The only reason I don't use this sort of combination now (apart from using them on the short distance Hon Solo) is that they don't hold my feet in tightly enough; I need slotted cleats if I use clips/straps.

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[John Phillips]

Did the Hold Fast Straps not work out for you?

John

[Deacon Patrick]

Hold Fast are still on testing. Among the questions: heartiness, floppyness, and desire to compare.

[Deacon Patrick]

Thank you all!

I’ve got used with life remaining quality leather straps on the way through the generosity of a lister. Thank you! Thank you Ted and Ron for the generious offer of various toe clips. I LOVE this group! I’m going to stick (at least for now) with MKS steel, so will pass, with gratitude. With my flippers, it looks like I need the XL, possibly the cage or extra deep, and still may be figuring out how to extend it.

Ron, what traditional bike shoe companies do you know of? I’m only finding ones in England. I’m far from convinced that a strong foot (as nearly all feet used to be) needs stiff shanks; however, I am also convinced stiffer shanks may improve effeciency. The trick is my feet are far from shoe-last shaped (they’re foot shaped), so EEEE width, which is challenging to come by. I may post another thread asking this same question as folks may not be following the minuta of my pedal experiments. Grin. Contemplating 1/8” plywood inserts to test this out with my existing shoes, but that’s a LOT of hand sawing. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Ron Mc]

I had some really pretty Ale Inox (stainless) XL with Italian flag markings, but traded them for a cappuccino and pastry to my buddy Tad, who needed them 

of course he could use a brake, too

[Ron Mc]

Speaking of Ale

how's this for spiffy?  

[Lester Lammers]

I have a pair of new men's large Size 10 and up Forte black poly/plastic clips with hardware and Christophe straps that were hanging on my water heater for years. Send me an address and they are yours.

Have you looked at touring shoes? Not very expensive and there are some nice ones out there.

[Clayton]

My Campy Euclids and Deore XT pedals with homemade laminated straps and homemade buckle pads.  Both are important. I found that laminating or buying a laminated strap makes an important safety feature. The leather moulds to your foot, and the stiff lamination holds the opening open. The thick buckle pad kicks the strap away from the side of your shoe slightly, to help prevent binding. I highly recommend not using a one strap opening toeclip. The strap binds on your foot. Use a mountain clip with two strap 'prongs'. It keeps the opening open, and provides much safer release as the strap is less likely to bind on your foot. I don't use toe clips anymore, but in twenty years of use, I rarely had my foot stuck in the pedal. I used clipless for a couple of years and went back to toe clips because I loved the art of using toe clips. Ned Overend blew my mind at a race I was at back in the day. He flicked the pedal with his toe hard, and while spinning fast, slipped his foot in. It is an art, and he is the master.  I practiced and practiced, but could never hit the opening like he could. I miss using them.......sometimes..... It is more connecting to the earth than clipless. It is like slipping your foot into stirrups, rather than hi tech ski bindings. They are Rivendellian. 

[Deacon Patrick]

Lester, thank you. Private reply sent.

Clayton, I always love seeing your handiwork. Excellent. Several questions: is another way to describe “binding,” “twisting”? Yes, I can see how the straps need to be stiff and open and not bind/twist for easy in/out.

My two biggest concerns with the Hold Fast straps are 1) that my foot, even in the touring pedals, wedges in snug to the point that pre-loosening is required prior to easy exit and 2) fraying for trail abrasion. A toe clip takes care of #1, and I think the leather straps would tuck in well and avoid most trail abrasion. Hoping that works!

Thanks again all!

With abandon,
Patrick

[Clayton]

Patrick, twisting is a better word, but if the strap is too soft and your pedal too narrow, it can catch on the side of your shoe and stop withdrawal. I have had three knee surgeries, so getting stuck in toe clips and twisting my knee wasn't an option. I obsessed (like normal) in getting them safe as possible. 

In the late eighties, I had a bike mechanic friend who made a BMX mountain bike (20" wheels), fully derailleured, with brake cable and housing used as toe clip straps on big BMX bear traps. I smirked ('cause I was a dick), but I started to talk to him and he humbled me. He found the spiral wound housing (with plastic cover peeled off, with a non-stretch cable inside provided instant release and never hung up on his shoes. The round steel just slid off. The opening was always wide open, and the internal cable could be bent to the shape of his foot. The big ding, is they were not adjustable. Those stuck in my mind when I put mine together.  Those taught me a big stiff opening is important with toe clips. He rode technical stuff in the desert rocks where there were frequent falls. His foot never hung up as he dabbed. His set up worked better and was far safer than my stock clips, straps and pedals.

 I only like really wide pedals to keep the straps from having to go around the edge of my soles and hanging up. The fat buckle pads helps as it kicks the strap out farther to the side. I could cinch them down (but not too tight), but still get my foot out instantly. My home made laminated straps, using a leather and nylon strap sewn together was a bitch to get through the strap holes on the clips. There are laminated ones on the market that are thinner. I used a heat gun to open the plastic strap holes when I molded the clips to my shoes and it was still tough (I found the Nylon clips won't change shape with heat).  Having the straps so tight in the clip holes, kept the strap from sliding side to side, which was an unexpected benefit on foot hole stability. 

Soma makes a metal two prong toe clip for boots, which I like. They are extra long too, compared to the tiny clips from other companies. I don't like my toes pinched. If you want to mold plastic ones to your shoes, or open up the toe, a heat gun does great.....on the right kind of plastic. I would recommend you ask for their toe clip bucket to root through, because you might over heat a few...ahem.  The photo attached shows my heat molded plastic and the Somas in profile....

I am surprised that toe clips haven't become the new thing in bikepacking. They have retention so you won't get bucked off your bike. They have the ability to have float (on pedals without pins which is so nice on long rides). There is one less mechanical thing to break and you can wear your COMFORTABLE hiking shoes. Flats with pins have displaced my toe clips, but I dislike the lack of float. Zero. Finding my foot position is a pain. "Lift foot, reposition. Lift foot, reposition". Ugh. My XT SPD's have more float. With toe clips my feet are free to slip and slide and still stay on the pedals. They are more secure than flats (as far as your foot bouncing off), more comfortable than being clipped in and so frigging cool, with a talented flip of your foot.

Somewhere I lost the romance and the desire for the art of "flipping the clip" like Ned Overend and went back to SPD's. On my Atlantis, I swap out clipless and flats and my other bikes all have Shimano SPD's. 

If you'd like I can send you the XT pedals to try for the summer. In the fall you can send them back. I want to keep them. 

Clayton

DirtDance

[Deacon Patrick]

Clayton, Thank you for the generious XT offer, but for the sake of the pedals and our friendship I’d best pass, lest I botch ‘em! My plan is to try the Sylvan Road as my next pedal. Do I need the spikey grips? They seem to not do much on the Touring pedals, the ridge bar itself doing the work. Side to side motion is a near non-issue, but will the smoother Road pedals make it an issue? I’ll find out. I like the idea of outer support for the foot, absent on the Touring. Also looking at the BM-7.

Hmmm. I wonder about threading brake cable through standard straps to stiffen them up? I’ll what issues I encounter when I get the toe clips set up.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Clayton]

Deacon, if you have large feet, you might find the shorter platforms of the road pedals don't allow your foot to go deep enough into the clips, depending where you prefer the pedal spindle to be under your foot. Aluminum spacers might be needed. I wear a 10-1/2 and use large mountain pedals with xtra large toe clips to get deep enough. I prefer the spindle behind the ball of my foot a bit though...

Have fun. Be safe. 

Clayton 

DirtDance

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Clayton. I’ve puzzled that through. The Touring (what I’ve been riding with the Hold Fast straps) is 94W x 63L while the road is 5mm wider and 2mm shorter. Interestingly, I seem to prefer ball of the foot over the spindle. Feels more natural to barefoot running that way.

With abandon,
Patrick