Help a so-so mechanic with rear derailed issues

[Tim]

Here's the deal: I've adjusted my derailers often but I can't get the rear shifting right on my Hilsen. I have DuraAce bar ends which I've been using in friction mode for about a year and a half. I have a brand new rear cassette, 9-speed, brand new chain and chain rings. I use Sheldon's method when setting things up. I shift to the highest gear (when the cable is loosest) with the cable disconnected. I pull the cable until it is just snug, then tighten the bolt. I leave about 1 available turn on each barrel adjuster (there are two for the rear cable) to loosen the cable if need be, which leaves the much more room for the barrel adjusters to tighten it. I can't seem to get the shifting to stay still in the lowest 3 gears. It skips back and forth. It will be ok if there's not too much of a load on the pedals but it wants to wander when I'm climbing. This is the case in all three chainrings. What gives?!? I keep tightening the barrel adjusters 1/2 turn at a time and can't seem to get it right. I loosen and that's no help either. When I go to the very lowest gear (requiring the most cable tension) it stays in place fine. So what do you all think, is the cable too tight or too loose?

[Jim M.]

What happens when the cable is disconnected? Does the derailer stay in high gear? You may need to adjust the high gear limit screw to allow the derailer to travel freely to the small cog. Another possibility is the b-tension screw adjustment. Loosening that screw can make the shifting better, but you don't want it so loose that it bumps into the large cog. If none of those work, my next thought is that the derailer hanger is a little bent. You may want to get the alignment checked. Good thing it's a steel frame. 

jim m

wc ca

[Bill Lindsay]

If you are using friction then the cable tightness or looseness is not relevant.  Either you put the shifter in the wrong place when you shifted into that gear in the first place (user error) or the shifter itself is slipping, not providing quite enough friction to hold the derailer in place.  

If it is just simple user error, then the slipping would be equally likely to wander to a smaller cog or wander to a larger cog.  In both cases you moved the shifter to an intermediate position.  If it is the latter, where the shifter is slipping, then that can only happen in one direction, wandering to a smaller cog, because it is the spring in the derailer winning a tug-of-war with the friction in the shifter.  

If it is user error, you could test it by switching to index.  Once you've got indexing adjusted right, you can't put the shifter in an intermediate position.  Of course you have to get it adjusted right which means getting the cable tension right.

If it is the shifter slipping, you can eliminate slipping by switching to index.  Or you can snug up the friction part by tightening the screw that holds the shifter in place. Just a little bit.  You should be able to feel the difference when you shift.  Don't abuse it and really overtighten it.  

Best of luck.  For what it's worth, many people find 9-speed is really sensitive to perfect friction shifting.  Some say it's no problem, others say it's always a problem.  Some have mixed results.  

On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 5:22:38 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

It sounds as if you are turning the adjuster the wrong way. Perhaps back it off, ensuring that the small cog stop screw is properly adjusted.

I find it hard to imagine how a friction setup will cause problems, unless the cable is too tight, or unless there is something preventing the cable from relaxing fully.

One remedy: toss the DA shifters and install Silvers. Absolutely the best I've used, including Retrofriction and PowerRatchets, and IME, better for frictioning 9 by bar end even than by down tubers. On my Fargo, with a bastard 13-27 9, composed of orphan cogs and 9 sp spacers, the Silver BES's shift precisely all up and down the cassette.

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 6:22 PM, 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Here's the deal: I've adjusted my derailers often but I can't get the rear shifting right on my Hilsen. I have DuraAce bar ends which I've been using in friction mode for about a year and a half. I have a brand new rear cassette, 9-speed, brand new chain and chain rings. I use Sheldon's method when setting things up. I shift to the highest gear (when the cable is loosest) with the cable disconnected. I pull the cable until it is just snug, then tighten the bolt. I leave about 1 available turn on each barrel adjuster (there are two for the rear cable) to loosen the cable if need be, which leaves the much more room for the barrel adjusters to tighten it. I can't seem to get the shifting to stay still in the lowest 3 gears. It skips back and forth. It will be ok if there's not too much of a load on the pedals but it wants to wander when I'm climbing. This is the case in all three chainrings. What gives?!? I keep tightening the barrel adjusters 1/2 turn at a time and can't seem to get it right. I loosen and that's no help either. When I go to the very lowest gear (requiring the most cable tension) it stays in place fine. So what do you all think, is the cable too tight or too loose?

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[carne...@bellsouth.net]

Your new cassette does not happen to be an IRD/Riv 9-spd.?
David

[Tim]

No, the new cassette is SRAM 9 speed. And Mr. William Lindsay, sir, you have solved my problem. I only took a quick ride, but the early returns show that by switching back to index shifting, the problem is solved! There was no need to adjust anything else. I guess that means that there is a spring that will not hold tension when I am in friction mode? I was ready to pull the trigger on the Silver shifters if this didn't work. I'm still not sure that I won't go that route but for now I'm in good shape. Thanks Bill!

[Bill Lindsay]

Great news, Tim.  I'm glad that helped.  The downside of index is just that the cable tension does need to be correct, but it's not rocket surgery. 

[dougP]

" it's not rocket surgery.  "

I tried to surger a rocket once; don't try this at home! 

dougP

[Joe Bernard]

If you're happy with index, enjoy, but if you want to go friction again Silvers are the thing. I've tried Shimano bar-cons in friction mode and they suuuuck. That little ratchety thing in the Silver shifters is magic.

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 6:15:37 PM UTC-7, Tim wrote:

[Tim]

I used my Shimano in friction for a long time, and actually preferred it until this recent problems so I'm pretty sure I'm going to order a set of Silvers. From looking at the Riv site, I'm pretty sure they will fit the bar end pods I'm using with my Shimano, right?

[Tim Gavin]

Yes, Silver shifters from Riv fit on standard Shimano bar-end pods.  Be aware that they're longer and may hit the frame with the handlebars turned (especially with moustache bars).

I recommend adding a pair of replacement plastic washers to your order.  It's cheap insurance ($1) for that rare time when one breaks on tour (speaking from experience).  You can hodge-podge a temporary replacement from a metal washer, but the shifters have better feel with the plastic ones.

Tim

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 4:28 AM, 'Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I used my Shimano in friction for a long time, and actually preferred it until this recent problems so I'm pretty sure I'm going to order a set of Silvers. From looking at the Riv site, I'm pretty sure they will fit the bar end pods I'm using with my Shimano, right?

[Surlyprof]

...went to a rocket surgeon once to have a warhead removed.