Atlantis Rebuild Ideas

[jjss]

Hey all!

I'm about to rebuild my Atlantis as more of a cruiser partly so I can use it for more of a cruising around bike and partly b/c my girlfriend will ride it and I think she might like this configuration better since she's not a big rider.  I'm attaching a pic of my current configuration which has served me well for quite a while  in New York City and LA.  It's a clear coat over the frame.  One of the early ones that riv did like this, I believe.

I'm going to list my plans below w/ questions and I'd love any good spirited ideas for how to improve on my plans.  Interested and both functional and aesthetic input!  Thanks so much!!

• Change Bars to Choco Norm bars.
• Which orientation should i use?
• Any reason not to go with these?

• Replace shifter with Silver Shifters
• I've just always wanted these.  Was thinking of using thumbies but I'm a sucker for the simplicity of barends.
• Need new brake levers
• Probably will go with the silver shimano mtb levers.  Anyone have  a strong recommendation for how to improve on this choice?  
• New cabling  (http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-metallic-braid-derailleur-cable-kits.html)
• thought this stuff looked pretty slick.  Any reason not to go with it?  Other suggestions?
• New Skewers
• As long as I'm making changes I want get some silver ones.  Anybody got a recommendation for some cool ones to buy, new or old that will go with the overall bike?
• New Cranks etc
• Hoping for something to protect the pant legs from grease since this will be used for tooling around
• Was going to go with these:  https://www.rivbike.com/collections/cranks-bbs/products/sugino-xd2-wide-low-double-crank-40t-x-26t
• Anything else I should thing about here?
• New Grips
• Need grips for the new bars. really don't know what to do here.
• Any reason not to go with these in Gum: http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/leather-goods-handlebar-grips/constructeur-rubber-grip.html 
• My local bike store loves these:  https://www.amazon.com/ESI-Grips-MTB-COL-Chunky-Grip/dp/B00554FMUY
• anything else I should look at?
• Coating / paint
• I love the clear coat but I'm buy the beach and I've seen some bits of rust turn up.
• Anyone know if there some kind of spray clear coat that I can use to give it a once-over?  Just want to seal it up and I like the rough looking finish.

Any other cool ideas?

[Chris Lampe 2]

The next time my bike is at an LBS, I'm going to have them install those chunky grips.  I've heard nothing but good things about them.  

I like the clear-coated bare frame Atlantis.  I didn't know any models besides the Bombadil got that treatement.  

[dougP]

Couple of thoughts:

Think again about thumbies.  On upright / flat bars, IME&HO, thumbies are more natural & intuitive.  Another consideration is the sticking out bar ends get in the way sometimes.  You can check to see if Paul's thumbie adapters will work with Silvers but they work with the levers for Shimano bar ends. 

Check out Ergon's line of handlebar grips.  The basic GP-1 is great for casual riding:

http://www.ergon-bike.com/en/product.html?a=griffe

About $30 at REI & maybe less somewhere on Amazon.  Have used these for years & love 'em.  Comfort is king.

dougP

[panog]

I'll give you an idea and that is before you go all out with a new groupset try the Albastache first to see how you like the more upright setup. These bars will put you close to where the Choco will and you don't have to change anything else to try them out. Your levers, barcons, derailleurs, etc will work just fine with the Albastache. There is a very good chance that you may like them enough to keep them on.

Pano

[dougP]

Now there's a sensible idea.  Never tried them myself but the Albastache is well regarded.  +1 for having to change everything.

dougP

[masmojo]

Well, I think you really need to decide who you are doing this for first, because you say you GF is going to ride it, But seem to be making choices based on what YOU like!?
If it was for you I would second the Albastache recommendation, but if it's for the GF, I'd go Albatross. I've had both on my Atlantis and while I prefer the stache, but if it was for someone who apparently does not ride a lot the Albatross would be better.
Along those lines, Silver shifters are great, but honestly some sort of index shifter option might be better, depends a little on the GF.

[jjss]

Thanks for the great replies!  

As I think about it and talk to a few folks I do keep hearing arguments against the bar ends on this setup.  So now the next question is, if I go with thumb shifters, what should I get?

If I'm most interested in the best function and happy with friction, what would folks suggest?  Silvershifters on the Paul mounts?  IRD?  Microshift?  I like the idea of being able to shift the back to index but I care most about super smooth action and functionality on the upright bars.  

Thanks!

[jjss]

Ha.  Fair enough...  Realistically I will still ride it more than her.  I'm moving by the beach so I want this set up as my day to day commuter and grocery bike that she can then ride on the weekends.  B/c I'll probably be figuring out another bike for myself with a "faster" setup, I like the idea of pushing this in the choco norm / albatross direction.  

Fair point about the shifting but I figure if all she ever knows is friction...  

[Philip Kim]

microshift are great as all of them have friction options as well as index options.

i really like paul thumbies and shimano bar ends, and running them inverted, so the thumb levers side beside the bar and not on top of the bar. allows your handlebars to be relatively free

[Philip Kim]

here's a picture to better show what i mean

[Surlyprof]

Philip,

I was trying to set mine up the way you have it and worried that the cable might get in the way when I grab the front curves of the bar.  Has that been a problem for you with this set up?

John

[Philip Kim]

not really. i guess the "curves" area is where i probably could touch the bar end cables, but when riding in that position, i let my palms rest and didn't wrap my fingers around the bar. it worked fine, any hairy handling required wasn't going to come from that hand position anyways.

if you like to wrap your fingers are the bar, then you could have the bar end cables go through on top of the bars and give it more cable to give you some space. i did that for awhile, but liked the way i set it up better.

[Justin, Oakland]

Not to over judge your plan BUT...

If you are building this up to be a "cruiser-ish" ride that your partner can use on the weekends, I would not build your second bike to go "faster" if you plan to ride together. It sounds like you ride more than they do. I have found that you may be on the end of some bad feelings and reluctance to ride if the plan is to ride these bikes together. Only speaking from my experience but it's something to think about!

Another option is to think about the MAP/Ahearne bar. I have it on my Saluki and my wife's Betty Foy. It's cruiser-ish enough to go slow and aggressive enough to dig in and go hard (and even offload!) when needed.

-Justin, happily cycling with his partner in Oakland, CA

[gordo]

I second Justin's suggestion of the MAP/Ahearne bars.  I'm running them on my cruiser-ish Atlantis with Paul thumbies and they are perfect for commuting, rambles and short overnighters.  It also makes handling a typically overloaded front rack/basket very easy.

- Eric in SF

[jjss]

I curious to know if anyone has experimented with both these bars or the jinensha bars (are they exactly he same?) and the Choco-norm bars and have a sense of how the would compare.  The Chocos would just be even more upright?

[Justin August]

The MAPs are different from the Jitensha. They have more rise and a longer grip area. Plus you can get them in a much wider width (that I have not tried). And they are rated OK for MTB use and do not have a sleeved grip area.

-Justin

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/-wZ7XAPPkP8/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[drew]

Choco bars come way way back. Further than albatross even. The map bar are a good suggestion for an uprightish bar on a bike without a super long top tube.

[jjss]

Ugh!  Now I'm really starting to worry that I need to rethink.  I've always been happy w/ my hands just over my brakes on the noodles just at its set up in the picture.  Seems like the chocos might be too far back.  

[drew]

Maybe ease into it. I suppose the transition to full super upright would look like noodles-albastache-map/ahearn-albatross-choco-bosco.

[jjss]

I just called Riv and they do seem to say that the Chocos come back about 3cm more than the Albatross which is pretty significant.  I am tempted to go Map, but I really wanted that swept back / upright feel and I don't love the curviness of the Albatross.  I prefer the lines of the Choco.  Maybe it'll have to Albatross anyway...  Thanks for al the great input!

[Kai Vierstra]

I'm against cutting anything off of any of my handlebars, but that's me. I filed off the ridge on my ergon grips so they could slide forwards on my choco bars, so now I've got about an inch protruding back from the grips. My point is you could easily lose those 3cms and still leave room for comfy grips on the Chocos.
-Kai
BK NY

[jjss]

Hey all,

Though I'd post an update w/ some pics of the rebuilt bike and 2 questions for the group.  

Overall I'm loving the feel of the albatross bars and the general rebuild.

Questions:

1.  I'm getting a lot of chain suck and chain falling off in the front if I shift quickly.  My bike shop said the mountain triple der. might need to go.   Any thoughts on how to fix this?

2.  They built is with the CrMo Albatross bars and I had sort of wanted the Aluminum.  I've read on the forum but can't find anything definitive.  Is this worth switching out?  I'm willing the pay the extra $$ and the idea of something stronger or better looking sounds good but I'm not finding much to say that it's really worth it.  Thoughts?

Any other suggestion for tweaks?  

Thanks!

On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:16:00 AM UTC-7, jjss wrote:

[dougP]

"My bike shop said the mountain triple der. might need to go.   Any thoughts on how to fix this?"

Did you change the FD?  Or the chainrings?  If not, it seems odd to get chain suck.  If so, maybe go back to the previous parts, assuming they worked.  Maybe you changed the sizes of the chainrings & have more difference between them than before?  Or put a new chain on old, visibly worn chainrings & now it's hanging up?

dougP

[Garth]

Thumbshifters and bar end brake levers are my preference for swept back bars, hands down. What I find useless about regular mtb levers is you cannot use some of the most valuble hand space. Thumbshifters located just inside the top curve and bar end brake levers frees up all that space. I have large hands so it matters, it sounds like you don't so it may not. Plus with bar end BL you can brake with only a pinkie or the next finger, it's amazing what strength of grip is there with just the one or two. The levers don't stick out like shifters and keep clear of knees, perfect.

Swept back bars are of way more potential than just keeping your hands set at the bar ends with a small grip.

[Tim Gavin]

MTB and Road front derailleurs have different cable pull standards.  But, if you're using thumb shifters (or downtube shifters, or bar-ends), then the difference is just a matter of lever throw.  Either FD can work fine with friction shifting.

Chain suck is usually a problem with interference with the back of the next bigger chainring.  So, it's either the chain's fault, or the chain rings.  This may be solved by a bottom bracket with a longer spindle.  Have your shop measure the chain line to find out.

Chain falling off the outside of the big ring means your "High" limit screw on the FD needs to be screwed in a bit further.

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thumbshifters and bar end brake levers are my preference for swept back bars, hands down. What I find useless about regular mtb levers is you cannot use some of the most valuble hand space. Thumbshifters located just inside the top curve and bar end brake levers frees up all that space. I have large hands so it matters, it sounds like you don't so it may not. Plus with bar end BL you can brake with only a pinkie or the next finger, it's amazing what strength of grip is there with just the one or two. The levers don't stick out like shifters and keep clear of knees, perfect.

Swept back bars are of way more potential than just keeping your hands set at the bar ends with a small grip.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

[RichS]

I'm in the midst of a rebuild for my Atlantis as well. Some similar changes to yours:
1. Drops to Albatross bars (CrMo version). Cut 1.5" from the ends. Unless you're concerned about rust or weight I don't see an advantage to the aluminum bars.

2. Front der shifter is now on the down tube, Paul thumbie with Shimano shifter for the rear (8 spd).

3. Paul canti brake levers.

4. RynoLite rims with 41mm Compass tires (noticeable improvement in the ride).

5. SKS fenders.

One observation/question re: the drive side pic you posted. The chain looks a bit slack. Perhaps a factor in the chain suck problem?

I'll post pics of my revised Atlantis when I'm finished.

Best of luck with you "new" Atlantis!
Richard

[jjss]

Is there a pic of the setup you are recommending? Not sure I'm getting exactly what you are describing. Thanks!

[jjss]

Thanks for the great replies. To be clear, I changed the front setup to match the default Sugino w/ the guard that Riv sell. The big chain ring is 40T.

I'm hearing to have my bike shop check chain tension and alignment but that I don't need a different der. Sound about right?

[R Shannon]

Attached are images of the handlebar, braking and shifting setup. I'll post more pics when all the changes are completed. So far so good.

Best,

Richard

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:11 AM, jjss <jona...@jonathansilberberg.com> wrote:

Is there a pic of the setup you are recommending?  Not sure I'm getting exactly what you are describing.  Thanks!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/-wZ7XAPPkP8/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Leif Eckstrom]

Garth, I like what you're saying about bar end brake levers, but are there good levers to buy?
I've tried the tektro 3.2x or whatever they're called, but I ran out of lever pull with cantis, side pulls, and centerpulls. NB, these were all vintage calipers, so perhaps these Tektro bar end brake levers are designed for modern dual pivot side pulls.
I'd like to hear more about specific lever and brake caliper pairings and performance if possible. I'd love for BEBL to be a real build option in the future but I've largely written off the tektro levers for underwhelming performance.
Thanks,
Leif
Chicago

[Garth]

Leif, The levers I have are Tekto RX 4.1. The cable pull for canti brakes is the same as sidepull, you can use them for both, just as plain road levers also work fine with canti brakes. My canti brakes are the common Shimano BR-M732, BR-MC70, and Sun Tour XC Pro. The ST are decidely low profile type and the Shimanos are medium profile.

Cable pull has not changed for all but the most recent Shimano shifter/brake combos. Those are different, but all "regular" sidepull brakes can use any "regular" lever. Regular in the sense of referring to what has been around for decades.

As for the Tektro levers you tried, an exact model number would be helpful since I am not sure if you are referring to road or mtb levers.

Any more questions are welcomed !

[Patrick Moore]

Regarding chain suck/dislodging: I think it's a subtle fd adjustment problem. From the photo, you may not be able to drop the fd, but if you can, it looks as if there is room to do so, and this might make shifting more precise. Second, and I think even more important, the proper fore/aft angle of the cage around the seat tube will minimize overthrow (to coin a new meaning if not a new word). Most of my chain dropping/overshift/undershift problems have been cured by getting this angle right (leaving out my early ignorance of the reality that not all cranks take the same length bb spindle). 

A front triple ought to work just fine with this crank; after all, it works fine with the same crank when you have the 3d ring on it. When I switched my Fargo from a 3X7 to a 2X9, I simply swapped the outer ring for a guard, bumped the middle ring from 36 to 38, adjusted the outer limit screw, and went riding. I didn't even lower the fd on the seat tube. It worked fine -- which I expected, since it worked fine before.

XD2, LX bottom pull, same bb spindle, no change to chainline (after all, the middle ring was -- in the middle).

I did have chain drop and suck problems while it was a triple, but after a catastrophic incident (bent middle ring at 45*), I took it to a shop: they adjusted the fd and put on a chain catcher, but after this adjustment I apparently didn't need the chain catcher, since the problem disappeared. It was with the FD in this same position the shop put it in that I left it when switching to a double setup -- the weird looking height of the fd seemed to make no difference at all to performance.

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 7:50 PM, jjss <jona...@jonathansilberberg.com> wrote:

....

Questions:

1.  I'm getting a lot of chain suck and chain falling off in the front if I shift quickly.  My bike shop said the mountain triple der. might need to go.   Any thoughts on how to fix this?

2

....

[Patrick Moore]

Sheeit. I meant: "A front double ought to work just fine ..."

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...

A front triple ought to work just fine with this crank; ...

[Leif Eckstrom]

Thanks, Garth, this is helpful. I have the same levers as you, the RX 4.1 for road diameter bar ends. Your response confirms that all of the brake calipers I tried these with levers were likely a poor fit and that the fault of the misfit likely resides with the caliper and not the lever, or with my setup of the calipers, perhaps. I used the tiny Diacompe cantilever (model number escapes me, but 80s production, and inferior to the design of all the cantilevers you mentioned, i.e., not the good 986 diacompe or the NGC cantilevers), universal side pulls (I've now read that these calipers required a good deal of lever pull even by vintage standards), and dura ace center pulls with these levers and had mediocre results. I do like how little real estate they occupy, however, and didn't really want to give up on them for future builds.

Best,

Leif 

Chicago