Trimming Razor dependencies' dependencies

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Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 3, 2012, 8:56:03 AM4/3/12
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I'd like to give a quick heads-up and update on what needs to be trimmed within our dependencies. Razor ideally functions within a pure-qt environment, so we always assume our users don't want GTK/GNOME/KDE dependencies.

 - Lightdm is an annoying one. Its end-dependencies are slim, but it requires a lot of crap in order to build. I filed the following bugs for it but it's not enough:
It also assumes a lot of gtk-related rt deps. Ideally, we should coordinate with the lightdm devs here to have something nicely platform-agnostic but I don't know any of them. Anyone up for the task?
 - Oxygen is an awesome theme which a lot of users want to use, but it depends on KDE. I know there are some old kde-less builds floating around... it would be awesome to have someone work on keeping a good one up to date. Even better would be to contact the devs -- I tried that in the past without much success, oxygen feels like a secretive underground dev community.
 - Kwin needs to lose its dependencies on KDE. Martin is working on that and keeping in touch with Petr. Yay :) It would be cool to have Martin frequent this mailing list, too.

A last one worth mentioning is volumeicon. I'm planning to get it ported to Qt as soon as I can, but I heard there was an effort from someone else to build a qt volume icon from scratch. Is that still ongoing?

Александр Соколов

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Apr 3, 2012, 12:38:34 PM4/3/12
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3 апреля 2012 г. 16:56 пользователь Jerome Leclanche <ady...@gmail.com> написал:

I'd like to give a quick heads-up and update on what needs to be trimmed within our dependencies. Razor ideally functions within a pure-qt environment, so we always assume our users don't want GTK/GNOME/KDE dependencies.

 - Lightdm is an annoying one. Its end-dependencies are slim, but it requires a lot of crap in order to build. I filed the following bugs for it but it's not enough:
It also assumes a lot of gtk-related rt deps. Ideally, we should coordinate with the lightdm devs here to have something nicely platform-agnostic but I don't know any of them. Anyone up for the task?
It might be a good idea to push our razorqt-lightdm-greeter to the upstream. At the weekend I watched them qt-greeter - it's awful.

 - Oxygen is an awesome theme which a lot of users want to use, but it depends on KDE. I know there are some old kde-less builds floating around... it would be awesome to have someone work on keeping a good one up to date. Even better would be to contact the devs -- I tried that in the past without much success, oxygen feels like a secretive underground dev community.
I want to write your own theme based on the plastique.
 
 - Kwin needs to lose its dependencies on KDE. Martin is working on that and keeping in touch with Petr. Yay :) It would be cool to have Martin frequent this mailing list, too.

A last one worth mentioning is volumeicon. I'm planning to get it ported to Qt as soon as I can, but I heard there was an effort from someone else to build a qt volume icon from scratch. Is that still ongoing?
Aris, do you have any news?
 

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Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 3, 2012, 1:14:51 PM4/3/12
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Has slim been looked into for display managers? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SLiM

What are the advantages of lightdm over slim?

J. Leclanche

Petr Vanek

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Apr 3, 2012, 2:12:50 PM4/3/12
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On Apr 3, 2012 (Tuesday), at 7:14 PM, Jerome Leclanche wrote:

Has slim been looked into for display managers? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SLiM

What are the advantages of lightdm over slim?

none :)

except that lightdm becomes "standard" in current distros. It starts in ubuntu, fedora follows...
Please don't ask why. I don't know.

chri...@surlykke.dk

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Apr 3, 2012, 4:16:39 PM4/3/12
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2012/4/3 Jerome Leclanche <ady...@gmail.com>

I'd like to give a quick heads-up and update on what needs to be trimmed within our dependencies. Razor ideally functions within a pure-qt environment, so we always assume our users don't want GTK/GNOME/KDE dependencies.

 - Lightdm is an annoying one. Its end-dependencies are slim, but it requires a lot of crap in order to build. I filed the following bugs for it but it's not enough:
It also assumes a lot of gtk-related rt deps. Ideally, we should coordinate with the lightdm devs here to have something nicely platform-agnostic but I don't know any of them. Anyone up for the task?

Maybe I should volunteer, as I'm the one who pulled this mess into Razor :-)

Looking through the lightdm-qt code it seems that there is a dependency on glib. Other dependecies seem to come from packaging, either at Launchpad or at the variaous distributions, so we should be able to work around those (hopefully).

The question is: Is the glib dependency acceptable? If not, we should probably remove the lightdm-greeter from razor. 

br. Chr.

  

Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 3, 2012, 5:42:23 PM4/3/12
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There's nothing bad in giving lightdm a good qt greeter. Though if we want to stick to non-glib software, then Slim might be a better option (seeing as most other DMs depends on gtk). I've been experimenting with it and quite like it... more on this later I guess.

J. Leclanche



  

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Alec Moskvin

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Apr 3, 2012, 6:36:42 PM4/3/12
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You can't really avoid glib, considering how basic FreeDesktop tools
like pkg-config, desktop-file-utils and shared-mime-info depend on it
(and I'd be surprised if there were any distros where libQtCore itself
is not linked to it.)

> br. Chr.
>

Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 4, 2012, 4:48:50 AM4/4/12
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Uh, half of those are shellscripts, not glib.

Still, glib is good to avoid, but as I said the issues are much deeper than that with lightdm. It's very tied-in with gnome. If someone wants to take up the task, feel free :)

Another one I forgot to mention is a port of pavucontrol. There are no qt-based proper pulseaudio controls to my knowledge (as in, a proper pavucontrol-like one). Anyone up for that one?

chri...@surlykke.dk

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Apr 4, 2012, 6:14:41 AM4/4/12
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2012/4/4 Jerome Leclanche <ady...@gmail.com>

Uh, half of those are shellscripts, not glib.

Still, glib is good to avoid, but as I said the issues are much deeper than that with lightdm. It's very tied-in with gnome. If someone wants to take up the task, feel free :)

 
One may like lightdm or not, but is that a problem for Razor?  If people have lightdm (the server) installed, we offer them a decent-looking qt-based greeter. If they don't have lightdm - the cost is that razor comes with an application that is not used. 

I think it is a bit like this: I am not a great fan of pulse-audio and prefer a pure alsa-setup, so I would not be happy if Razor required me to install PA, but obviously I would not mind that Razor had apps to control PA (like a mixer-app).

br. Chr.

LM

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Apr 4, 2012, 7:40:58 AM4/4/12
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On Apr 3, 1:14 pm, Jerome Leclanche <adys...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Has slim been looked into for display managers?https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/SLiM

Another option is Qingy:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Qingy

Tried it for a while and it wasn't bad, but finally settled on logging
in directly with getty. If someone's wanting to put together a
lightweight desktop using razor, I think it would be nice to leave as
many choices as possible up to the user. The nice part about LXDE is
that you can use all of it or just the pieces that work best on your
machine. It would be nice to have that for a qt based system. I also
think the list of qt applications is very helpful. Even if they're
not officially a part of razor, giving users lightweight qt (and even
X based) software choices so they can put together a system the way
they want can help encourage people to adopt and use razor on more
machines.

Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 4, 2012, 7:53:02 AM4/4/12
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Most of us feel the same way about part-reusability and it's definitely a goal to port improvements upstream, give the user as much freedom as possible in the software and keep things very split (not end up a behemoth).



J. Leclanche

Jerome Leclanche

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Apr 4, 2012, 7:54:08 AM4/4/12
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That's exactly why we'd like to push our qt greeter to Lightdm, and hopefully only have a theme to store :)

J. Leclanche

Alec Moskvin

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Apr 4, 2012, 11:08:39 AM4/4/12
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> Uh, half of those are shellscripts, not glib.

Nope, you're probably confusing it with something else. The three
packages I mentioned don't even contain shell scripts.

> Still, glib is good to avoid, but as I said the issues are much deeper
> than that with lightdm. It's very tied-in with gnome. If someone wants

Just because it links to a non-GUI library created by gnome, does not
make it "very tied-in with gnome" ;)

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