Progress

[Patrick]

G'day everyone!

Progress on QS has been pretty slow lately, what with all of us having other (more important - sniff sniff!) things to be doing.
Rob and I have been discussing a few things off list, so I thought it would be a good idea to share them now:

* v1.2.0 release

I've just been through all the latest (build 400D) crash reports, and I can't see anything that's specifically related to this version, so I think we might be bood to go with it
If anybody has any objections, speak now otherwise I forsee us (being Rob, if he has the time!) releasing it by the end of the week

 
* Future progress

Speaking on behalf of myself and Rob, we've both now got less time for QS as we've moved on to new jobs. I feel that if either of us stopped all together with our user support/code changes, then QS would die a slow and painful death (not that it hasn't been doing that for the past 7 years...)
There is some good news though; we have a decent sum of donations money (~$3000) and i don't see any point in us just sitting on it, so I think this is a wise time to start spending it to ensure the QS project is supported.
Now Rob has suggested that since he's billing clients by the hour in his new job, he could technically bill QS and work on the project. I think this sounds like an excellent idea - as he put it: People are donating because they want to see progress/continued life, and that takes development work.
If not Rob, then we could probably higher somebody else, but I'm inclined to think that a) they might be more expensive, b) would be much less familiar with the (messy) code base, and our codes of conduct

      * Close-future work:
            
               The most pressing things we need to work on are Yosemite support
               I'd also like to try and make Localization a priority. It's one area that once we've got set up, there will be little to no work required from us devs, but it will help a) increase the volunteer community (with translators) b) improve QS
               This brings me to the point that we probably need to be looking into how we can maintain a volunteer group right now. Developers come and go, but at the moment none are coming. What can we do?!


* T-shirt competition

Yeah, that needs doing! Any volunteers to mastermind the ordering/printing. I know I've been hopelessly useless at finishing this off. I'm willing to work with someone if anybody else is keen

[Patrick Robertson]

One more point:

* Meeting

Another of Rob’s suggestions, he also thought it would be a good idea if at least some of us developers met each other - over the phone or Skype etc.

If we did this, we’d also be able to discuss managing our time collectively, so that all of us can be online (e.g. IRC) at least 1 hour a week together. I feel that if we are all online together (and refrain from discussing intangible topics like rewriting QSLib…!) we could really make some progress.

I’d be happy to once a week create a list of ‘top priority’ jobs that we can check off in our weekly session.

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[Rob McBroom]

On 9 Sep 2014, at 7:33, Patrick wrote:

If anybody has any objections, speak now otherwise I forsee us (being Rob,
if he has the time!) releasing it by the end of the week

Maybe not that soon, but yeah, just some small things to get merged.

Now Rob has suggested that since he's billing clients by the hour in his
new job, he could technically bill QS and work on the project. I think this
sounds like an excellent idea - as he put it: People are donating because
they want to see progress/continued life, and that takes development work.
If not Rob, then we could probably higher somebody else, but I'm inclined
to think that a) they might be more expensive, b) would be much less
familiar with the (messy) code base, and our codes of conduct

I suggested we “hire” Patrick for a week or two, but he can’t do it. It’ll be a few months probably because I need to get settled in my new job, but yeah, I’d do it cheap.

        This brings me to the point that we probably need to be

looking into how we can maintain a volunteer group right now. Developers
come and go, but at the moment none are coming. What can we do?!

Good question. I wonder if anyone wants to reconsider my suggestion to charge a small amount for the automatic in-app update system (3-5 USD per year). We tend to have around 100,000 users. If even half of them got on board, we could support a full time developer. Probably two. And an occasional freelance designer.

To review, we wouldn’t charge for the app or direct manual downloads of the plug-ins. We’d only charge to enable the in-app plug-in download system.

• T-shirt competition

Yeah, that needs doing! Any volunteers to mastermind the ordering/printing.
I know I've been hopelessly useless at finishing this off. I'm willing to
work with someone if anybody else is keen

All those people that say they don’t know how to program, but they want to help? This is the sort of thing they should be doing. :-) Maybe we should ask for volunteers on the users’ list.

That reminds me, I recently heard about Cotton Bureau. I wonder if it’d be good for us. You only need 12 orders to get the design printed.

--
Rob McBroom
http://www.skurfer.com/

[Howard Melman]

On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:10 PM, Rob McBroom <mailin...@skurfer.com> wrote:

> I wonder if anyone wants to reconsider my suggestion to charge a small amount for the automatic in-app update system (3-5 USD per year). We tend to have around 100,000 users. If even half of them got on board, we could support a full time developer. Probably two. And an occasional freelance designer.
>
> To review, we wouldn’t charge for the app or direct manual downloads of the plug-ins. We’d only charge to enable the in-app plug-in download system.

Hadn’t heard of this before. Seems like a reasonable idea, but I wouldn’t have my hopes on half the users subscribing. I’d suspect hopefully 5%, more likely 1%. If the goal is to hire a full time engineer based just on this, you might want to adjust the price.

Howard

[philostein]

Speaking on behalf of myself and Rob, we've both now got less time for QS as we've moved on to new jobs. I feel that if either of us stopped all together with our user support/code changes, then QS would die a slow and painful death (not that it hasn't been doing that for the past 7 years...)

Sad news indeed (for us selfish Quicksilver users). The prospect of the 'Quicksilver is dead/dying' meme rearing its ugly head again makes my blood run cold…

A big thank you for all the hard work you guys have put into Quicksilver over the years. With all the time it saves, Quicksilver genuinely makes mundane computing a joy.

 

There is some good news though; we have a decent sum of donations money (~$3000) and i don't see any point in us just sitting on it, so I think this is a wise time to start spending it to ensure the QS project is supported.
Now Rob has suggested that since he's billing clients by the hour in his new job, he could technically bill QS and work on the project. I think this sounds like an excellent idea - as he put it: People are donating because they want to see progress/continued life, and that takes development work. 

If not Rob, then we could probably higher somebody else, but I'm inclined to think that a) they might be more expensive, b) would be much less familiar with the (messy) code base, and our codes of conduct

I feel confident the users would agree to using donations for continued support of Quicksilver.

      * Close-future work:
            
               The most pressing things we need to work on are Yosemite support
               I'd also like to try and make Localization a priority. It's one area that once we've got set up, there will be little to no work required from us devs, but it will help a) increase the volunteer community (with translators) b) improve QS
               This brings me to the point that we probably need to be looking into how we can maintain a volunteer group right now. Developers come and go, but at the moment none are coming. What can we do?!

Can we publicise this thread on Twitter? It might generate some help.

 

* T-shirt competition

Yeah, that needs doing! Any volunteers to mastermind the ordering/printing. I know I've been hopelessly useless at finishing this off. I'm willing to work with someone if anybody else is keen

Choose a winner first. :) Then make an announcement alongside 1.2's official release, which could include a call for support for all aspects of Quicksilver's upkeep.

I support Rob's idea of some form of IAP for development funds, though it could open a whole new can of user-support worms…

[Ahmad AlTwaijiry]

First I would like to thank you very much for your time and work in QS

I didn't see anyone suggested it so I will say it, why you dont charge for QS subscription/download. this is not a bad thing to do if you have good product and this will help to speed the development.

maybe 1 payment for download or yearly payment for VIP plugins/access.

it will still be open source "code" but something similar to other open source software such as Redhat Linux and many others software companies. this will make a good revenue for QS to pay for full time staff and also help fans to have up to date QS with a lot of new features.

people will hate me :) but this is a fact: having a good quality software require a lot of time and money, this idea I believe will tell you if QS worth working on it or not (do you have actually fans or just people love to have free stuff regardless of the quality)

[Rob McBroom]

On 12 Sep 2014, at 8:58, Howard Melman wrote:

> Hadn't heard of this before. Seems like a reasonable idea, but I
> wouldn't have my hopes on half the users subscribing. I'd suspect
> hopefully 5%, more likely 1%.

Probably not half, but I would hope more than 5%.

> If the goal is to hire a full time engineer based just on this, you
> might want to adjust the price.

That’s pie-in-the-sky, but I feel like we have to try something. The
alternative looks a lot like 2008.

[Rob McBroom]

On 13 Sep 2014, at 9:10, philostein wrote:

> Sad news indeed (for us selfish Quicksilver users). The prospect of
> the 'Quicksilver is dead/dying' meme rearing its ugly head again makes
> my blood run cold…

We’re not there yet. Honestly, the work you do probably sends more of
a message than what we do. So first, thanks! Second, keep it up as long
as you can.

> Can we publicise this thread on Twitter? It might generate some help.

Of course.

> I support Rob's idea of some form of IAP for development funds, though
> it could open a whole new can of user-support worms…

Maybe. I don’t think we should try to make an unbeatable system to
prevent free updates. It should mostly be on the honor system.

[Rob McBroom]

On 16 Sep 2014, at 15:17, Ahmad AlTwaijiry wrote:

> I didn't see anyone suggested it so I will say it, why you dont charge
> for QS subscription/download. this is not a bad thing to do if you
> have good product and this will help to speed the development.

Many people have suggested that over the years, but the people working
on it now don’t “own” it. No one really does. So no one really has
the right to take money for the product itself.

[philostein]

On Tuesday, 9 September 2014 20:33:31 UTC+9, Patrick wrote:

* Future progress

      * Close-future work:
            
               The most pressing things we need to work on are Yosemite support
               I'd also like to try and make Localization a priority. It's one area that once we've got set up, there will be little to no work required from us devs, but it will help a) increase the volunteer community (with translators) b) improve QS

 On Friday, 12 September 2014 12:10:36 UTC+9, Rob McBroom wrote:

I suggested we “hire” Patrick for a week or two, but he can’t do it. It’ll be a few months probably because I need to get settled in my new job, but yeah, I’d do it cheap.

Question: will Yosemite support be added to Quicksilver before any new payment and billing systems are introduced?

 

 I wonder if anyone wants to reconsider my suggestion to charge a small amount for the automatic in-app update system (3-5 USD per year). We tend to have around 100,000 users. If even half of them got on board, we could support a full time developer. Probably two. And an occasional freelance designer.

Perhaps a number picker that defaults to, say, $10, with options for $5, $20, and even $50. Sounds a lot, but some users are donating these amounts. (Thanks to everyone who does!)

 

[Ahmad AlTwaijiry]

Hi Rob,

I'm assuming QS is an open source.

So developing and Selling QS by the team is not an issue. similar to many other company using open source development as a main income for the company, I'm not talking here about forking QS and close the source code, but selling a binary version of QS and keeping the source code available for anyone (best ever example is Redhat company)

[Rob McBroom]

On 19 Sep 2014, at 20:33, philostein wrote:

> Question: will Yosemite support be added to Quicksilver before any new
> payment and billing systems are introduced?

I’m not sure there’s agreement that we should do it at all. In any
case, implementation of anything is way off.

So, yes.

> Perhaps a number picker that defaults to, say, $10, with options for
> $5, $20, and even $50. Sounds a lot, but some users are donating these
> amounts. (Thanks to everyone who does!)

Yeah, I agree. Offer multiple amounts with some minimum.

[Levee Breaks]

Den tisdagen den 9:e september 2014 kl. 13:33:31 UTC+2 skrev Patrick:

               I'd also like to try and make Localization a priority. It's one area that once we've got set up, there will be little to no work required from us devs, but it will help a) increase the volunteer community (with translators) b) improve QS
               

I'm the Swedish translator of Quicksilver and the coordinator on Transifex (currently translated to 100 %). What I miss right know is parts of the preference window and all the plugins. If you put those strings up on Transifex I will happily translate them.

[philostein]

I linked to this thread on Twitter, and there was unanimous support for some form of payment to help with Quicksilver's continued development:

https://twitter.com/lovequicksilver/status/514165552269369344

[C. R. Oldham]

On Friday, September 26, 2014 1:39:58 PM UTC-6, philostein wrote:

I linked to this thread on Twitter, and there was unanimous support for some form of payment to help with Quicksilver's continued development:

https://twitter.com/lovequicksilver/status/514165552269369344

As a Quicksilver user since I got my first OS X machine, I am 100% in favor of that idea, or any other idea that will help Quicksilver stay alive.

 

[Guy Manchester]

Totally behind this - and what’s more I’m pretty sure if you tell people their donations are going directly towards development there’d be a spike in contributions - I’ve never donated before (sorry!) but I would in a heartbeat if I knew it was guaranteeing a brighter future for my favourite and most used software!

Giving people an option to make regular monthy / annual direct debits would be a splendid idea too!

 

On 26 Sep 2014, at 20:39, philostein <phild...@gmail.com> wrote:

I linked to this thread on Twitter, and there was unanimous support for some form of payment to help with Quicksilver's continued development:

https://twitter.com/lovequicksilver/status/514165552269369344

[Rob McBroom]

So basically, one person, who hasn’t contributed dick in over 3 years didn’t like the idea. So we never tried it.

I’m still not sure what will happen (if anything), but it’s good to know we aren’t likely to piss everyone off. My new employers make a living on open source stuff, so I might take them to dinner and get some advice.

Thanks for the responses.

[Howard Melman]

I don’t know about this, but I figured I’d throw it out there as an idea:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/xiki/xiki-the-command-revolution?ref=nav_search

This guy raised $84K to work full time on a command shell. Duplicating this would not be easy but I think Quicksilver could have a larger audience since they wouldn’t need to be command-line geeks. You’d need some definite plans of how’d you improve quicksilver with some interesting features. Also such a Kickstarter campaign takes a lot of work to manage.

He did do interesting things with pledge amounts. Low amounts for access to videos and votes for features and t-shirts and other swag and higher amounts for pair-programming sessions. He offered some expensive tiers geared towards companies and while he didn’t get many takers, he got two $10K backers.

All of this seems easily transferable to Quicksilver; feature votes, dev video access, new plugins, help with people writing their own plugins or even support sessions for users and plugins for corporate apps with advertising on blog as a sponsor.

Howard

[Patrick Robertson]

> I don't know about this, but I figured I'd throw it out there as an idea: …

I know about Kickstarter, but hadn’t thought about it for QS. Unless someone new and with lots of energy takes up the project, I don’t think it’d work. Seeing as it’s taken over a year (and still counting...) for us to (collectively) sort the t-shirt competition printing, I don’t think we’d be able to manage a Kickstarter project between ourselves ;-)

[Patrick Robertson]

Following on from Howard’s suggestion, Django (an open source Python web framework) have created a Kickstarter-style campaign [1] for a specific task.
They have a much wider audience, but have raised the required €4000 in about 7 hours!
I think this model *could* work if we had a specific goal in mind (like they do) - so basically, if someone on the development team (or anybody else) wants to do something specific with Quicksilver, and the dev team endorses it, then I don’t see why we couldn’t do it

[1] https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/multiple-template-engines-for-django

[Chris Koerner]

I just heard of this news, so apologies for being late to the party.

As others have mentioned, the idea of a Kickstarter-type fundraiser would be an idea I could get behind. Maybe even create you're goals around features. If you raise $x you'll add y feature. The more you raise, the more cool enhancements to be added. Think of it as a crowdsourced roadmap*.

Another idea is something like Pateron (http://patreon.com). It might not be enough to sustain a full-time developer, but could generate a relatively consistent income stream.

I'm not a developer, but I can help with promotions, writing, demos, etc. Let me know if I can lend a hand.

*Does QS have a roadmap? That would be neat to put together regardless. Maybe poll folks via some sort of voting mechanism to help foster a roadmap that matches to the communities needs/wants?