Updated whonix templates

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,

Mar 10, 2015, 8:32:19 PM3/10/15

to qubes-users, Jason M

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,

I've uploaded new template packages for Whonix on Qubes to
templates-community repo. Those packages include many improvements done
by nrgaway over past few months, as well updated qubes packages. Also
the package layout was improved so further updates will be much easier.

New packages are:
qubes-template-whonix-gateway-experimental
qubes-template-whonix-workstation-gnome

To install new packages, you need to remove old one first. This means
you need to temporary switch your Whonix AppVMs to some other template
(no need to start them in such configuration).

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJU/40LAAoJENuP0xzK19csEfEH/29mygTWMhFJvi1frzLLsm3z
CTja94wkn8ShZYMjbnycEOsLzYJ4ITt8btcKYMe17cXZxccSbdk+9Ud9O6hQFLrq
IdIyXrz8teuP+kLU3PyXOaXeoCmirfxi7ZO2nv5EkgQKt7GI9pMhBIV8jhalBjqu
gaaQi0hpad1WpvjYdH0m7d2viNY7VX4Xr8tqkClhGd/aebJTK6zE9Rxcu5No3qjr
6VDOrj7082x4XBrfStAt+J5S9Mj/4JOxpjleqrBkCBoDvBIUSnRy87JwbyzwOzZf
WfLTSnjMuFfmEAIPFtOWUDCzvyQRec9zH9ctjBZsm8CPQIQxna4MQEXYwLa2hKM=
=MmDm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 11, 2015, 9:11:19 AM3/11/15

to qubes...@googlegroups.com

Awesome. Thanks!! :)

Mirrored to Whonix Qubes forum:

https://www.whonix.org/forum/index.php/topic,1012.0.html

Working on developing new official documentation on the Whonix wiki now:

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Qubes

WhonixQubes

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 1:07:57 AM3/13/15

to qubes...@googlegroups.com

Regarding Gnome based Whonix-Workstation...

What's the advantage of including Gnome by default in a Qubes VM?

I thought Qubes did not need or use the AppVM's desktop environment
anyway.

It seems to add considerable weight (+1GB) on top of the Whonix
template.

WhonixQubes

Axon

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 1:13:58 AM3/13/15

to WhonixQubes, qubes...@googlegroups.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Maybe I'm severely misunderstanding something, but I'm pretty sure we
*do* use the AppVM's DE inside of AppVMs. By default, we're running
KDE in dom0 and Gnome in AppVMs.

As for whether this is *necessary*, it's probably not. However,
several users have noticed that trying to install KDE in a standard
TemplateVM runs into a conflict with a Qubes package, so maybe that's
why Gnome was chosen. (FWIW, the conflict can be worked around with
- --skip-broken, and the result seems to work fine.)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=sPIp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 1:39:05 AM3/13/15

to ax...@openmailbox.org, qubes...@googlegroups.com

On 2015-03-13 5:13 am, Axon wrote:
> Maybe I'm severely misunderstanding something, but I'm pretty sure we
> *do* use the AppVM's DE inside of AppVMs. By default, we're running
> KDE in dom0 and Gnome in AppVMs.
>
> As for whether this is *necessary*, it's probably not. However,
> several users have noticed that trying to install KDE in a standard
> TemplateVM runs into a conflict with a Qubes package, so maybe that's
> why Gnome was chosen. (FWIW, the conflict can be worked around with
> - --skip-broken, and the result seems to work fine.)

Maybe I too am severely misunderstanding something as well, but...

I don't see usage of Gnome's DE for seamless mode VMs, Whonix, Fedora,
or otherwise.

All I see is the Dom0 KDE that all VMs display their windows on via X.

Sure, a big number of extra Gnome apps are installed on the filesystem
of the AppVM, but the Gnome desktop doesn't seem to be utilized by
Qubes.

Maybe I'm fundamentally off base?

Wondering about reasons for choice of the double-sized Gnome based
Whonix.

Thanks!

WhonixQubes

Axon

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 1:48:01 AM3/13/15

to WhonixQubes, qubes...@googlegroups.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

WhonixQubes wrote:

Hm... Well, isn't it possible to install those Gnome apps *only* by
installing the "Gnome base"? That's how it seems to work with KDE.
When I needed to install a particular K* app in one of my templates, I
had to install practically all of KDE along with it as dependencies.

>
> Wondering about reasons for choice of the double-sized Gnome based
> Whonix.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> WhonixQubes
>

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 2:19:03 AM3/13/15

to ax...@openmailbox.org, qubes...@googlegroups.com

On 2015-03-13 5:47 am, Axon wrote:
> Hm... Well, isn't it possible to install those Gnome apps *only* by
> installing the "Gnome base"? That's how it seems to work with KDE.
> When I needed to install a particular K* app in one of my templates, I
> had to install practically all of KDE along with it as dependencies.

Yeah, I've had similar experiences with individual apps being dependent
upon full DEs.

But, for example, the previous ITL compiled Whonix-Workstation 2.1.7
(whonix-workstation-experimental) did also have Gnome's Nautilus file
manager installed, but not the full GDM package, and was less than half
the size as this 2.1.8 (whonix-workstation-gnome) one's RPM package.

0.9 to 2.1 GB increase.

WhonixQubes

Jason M

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 3:15:33 AM3/13/15

to qubes...@googlegroups.com, ax...@openmailbox.org, whoni...@riseup.net

@Unman has created a more minimal template for Debian that I am also going to try to apply to Whonix as well when I get some time to work on it again.

The full gnome desktop environmnet is not installed, doing so would increase the file size to about 4GB as it does with Wheezy and Jessie. The file size may have grown since I switched the method of installing the base packages to the same used by Debian as well as some additional packages that existed in a regular gnome installation but not the Debian based templates. The reasons behind this was to provide greater reliability, especially when it cam to the graphics rendering which tended to display graphic artifacts on some types of video hardware.

I did do a lot of research into the mattes I mentioned and it could be that the file-size of the template became collateral damage. So here's hoping the more minimal template helps with this.

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 6:27:31 AM3/13/15

to nrg...@gmail.com, qubes...@googlegroups.com

On 2015-03-13 7:15 am, Jason M wrote:
> @Unman
>
> *has created a more minimal template for Debian that I am also going to

> try
> to apply to Whonix as well when I get some time to work on it

> again.*The

> full gnome desktop environmnet is not installed, doing so would
> increase
> the file size to about 4GB as it does with Wheezy and Jessie. The file
> size may have grown since I switched the method of installing the base
> packages to the same used by Debian as well as some additional packages
> that existed in a regular gnome installation but not the Debian based
> templates. The reasons behind this was to provide greater reliability,
> especially when it cam to the graphics rendering which tended to
> display
> graphic artifacts on some types of video hardware.
>
> I did do a lot of research into the mattes I mentioned and it could be
> that
> the file-size of the template became collateral damage. So here's
> hoping
> the more minimal template helps with this.

Sounds good.

Thanks,

WhonixQubes

Marek Marczykowski-Górecki

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 6:14:49 PM3/13/15

to WhonixQubes, qubes...@googlegroups.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'll build other types of templates later (including the one without
gnome tools), but first I need to finish QubesBuilder changes (mentioned
on qubes-devel ML). And make some free space on my disk...

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVA2FSAAoJENuP0xzK19csH3MH/00f9esbY17IZwhZWY1XliP/
aaAR1LIgfIpULhUDKZ4Ltw/B1QReiDMl6+bd+tXknNRdz6C54dBgMv4wSMUjLC0i
UTPtrGiAq7GjoFHUVSJPDLXO4ahaUozpr6JteeAiq78AIV+1xio/dARLMhGvlJfi
x1G4tkRkiii+aVM0NvplmrbkJjOZmrwmbzYoeLhxff8YQe6p+trpX2N2bWdcIkq2
Q8Cn39c+/YZxHR9Ros/T7UwusYYppQFHAzSnHX4INkbrL632R3UVp0eAqD91FDbn
qYqkaHDo913i7aPMXaphtxdCNcIP9ArG8gkcAE7miM2BYsk+L8YuPY03h3pHJM4=
=RGPv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

WhonixQubes

unread,

Mar 13, 2015, 6:25:11 PM3/13/15

to marm...@invisiblethingslab.com, qubes...@googlegroups.com

Sounds good... Yes, I saw that thread, and the QubesBuilder changes
sound nice!

WhonixQubes

Reply all

Reply to author

Forward