some tutorials

[loeken internetzme]

recorded these a few days back to help a friend getting started, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj8EOFaxOgsS63cd1YZjc56p2brTyIRUF feel free to use the videos whereever you want, for whatever you want.

[Andrew David Wong]

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Thanks, loeken! These look great!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[drew....@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 22:24:59 UTC+11, loeken internetzme wrote:

recorded these a few days back to help a friend getting started, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj8EOFaxOgsS63cd1YZjc56p2brTyIRUF feel free to use the videos whereever you want, for whatever you want.

Are they meant to have any sound so you know what's going on and what the person is doing?

Just I don't get sound from the videos, so I'm asking.

Other than that they are not too bad at all. 

However, in Windows 7 install, there is one thing I need to point out, when installing, UPDATES should be set to 'Ask me Later', this is to avoid a bug in Windows Update and the wusa services.

Setting it to Automatic or Important Only causes the service to have a memory leak after booting, and it will cause the guest to go super super slow or even crash.

There is a patch for it...

http://www.freenode-windows.org/resources/vista-7/windows-update

View that URL for more information on the bug and how to patch it.

Does not affect everyone around the world, but it affected many people and we spent days getting that worked out.

But as I say, having updates on initially can cause that bug with Windows 7.

[Marek Marczykowski-Górecki]

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On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 07:54:39AM -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
> On 2017-01-10 03:24, loeken internetzme wrote:
> > recorded these a few days back to help a friend getting started,
> > https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj8EOFaxOgsS63cd1YZjc56p2brTyIRUF
> > feel free to use the videos whereever you want, for whatever you want.
> >
>
> Thanks, loeken! These look great!

Thanks, loeken!

Andrew, can we get them listed at https://www.qubes-os.org/video-tours/
? This would be nice addition to the current one, especially because
also cover the installation and also few other detailed use cases.

- --
Best Regards,
Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
Invisible Things Lab
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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[Andrew David Wong]

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On 2017-01-17 06:58, Marek Marczykowski-Górecki wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 07:54:39AM -0800, Andrew David Wong wrote:
>> On 2017-01-10 03:24, loeken internetzme wrote:
>>> recorded these a few days back to help a friend getting
>>> started,
>>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj8EOFaxOgsS63cd1YZjc56p2brTyIRUF
>>> feel free to use the videos whereever you want, for whatever
>>> you want.
>>>
>
>> Thanks, loeken! These look great!
>
> Thanks, loeken!
>
> Andrew, can we get them listed at
> https://www.qubes-os.org/video-tours/ ? This would be nice addition
> to the current one, especially because also cover the installation
> and also few other detailed use cases.
>

Yes, I've been meaning to do this. Added!

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[loeken internetzme]

I have added another part to the playlist ( Qubes/Windows 7 dualboot).

The way to multiboot described in the documentation always gave me an error message that my windows boot was damaged (but when booting off the windows disk directly, it booted without problems). That was one of the most asked questions on the video tutorials so far, "how to get dual boot working", maybe somebody should take a look at the documenation, if that part is outdated or something, all i basically did was use a slightly different /etc/grub.d/40_custom

A few suggestion on the side:
I personally like the docs, I did notice that some parts seem to be outdated and havent been tested/updated with a recent version. I dont know about the cms you use but might it be possible to add 2 types of information to each documenation post?
1.) The date/author who wrote this ( so we the user have an understanding of how "up to date" this documenation is, or who to contact in case we find some problems worth updating, maybe even add a mailto:upda...@qubes-XX.org href there, or whatever you use )
2.) Which version of qubes this has been tested with

Most users that are familiar with qubes probably know roughly when which parts got added etc, but for the new user i think it might be a good indication to know how "fresh" this documentation is.
For example there is a documenation which talks about how to build prop nvidia drivers and it contains kernel versions 2.6*, so it is clearly outdated, and it did not work for me at all.


Another suggestion would be to allow users to comment the documenation ( such as "warning I tested the installation of nvidia drivers, but i failed, the documenation is outdated" ). That would probably satisfy users a lot by not spending a lot off time on the same problems, coming to the same conclusions. I understand that you prefere google groups for your workflow. Maybe just link in a google group post like this to every documenation, that would allow users to give their input and you guys(and girls) to keep using your workflow with google groups

And my last suggestions since im already bashing the doc hard ( altough i do like it ;) ). The troubleshooting sidebar on the right. It would be better to disable that on mobile devices, it takes up half the screen on my mobile.

peace - loeken

[Daniel Moerner]

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On 01/22/2017 09:23 AM, loeken internetzme wrote:
> I personally like the docs, I did notice that some parts seem to
> be outdated and havent been tested/updated with a recent version. I
> dont know about the cms you use but might it be possible to add 2
> types of information to each documenation post? 1.) The date/author
> who wrote this ( so we the user have an understanding of how "up to
> date" this documenation is, or who to contact in case we find some
> problems worth updating, maybe even add a
> mailto:upda...@qubes-XX.org href there, or whatever you use ) 2.)
> Which version of qubes this has been tested with

+1, I think this would be a very good addition to the docs.

Daniel

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[Andrew David Wong]

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On 2017-01-22 06:23, loeken internetzme wrote:
> I have added another part to the playlist ( Qubes/Windows 7
> dualboot).
>
> The way to multiboot described in the documentation always gave me
> an error message that my windows boot was damaged (but when
> booting off the windows disk directly, it booted without problems).
> That was one of the most asked questions on the video tutorials so
> far, "how to get dual boot working", maybe somebody should take a
> look at the documenation, if that part is outdated or something,
> all i basically did was use a slightly different
> /etc/grub.d/40_custom
>
> A few suggestion on the side: I personally like the docs, I did
> notice that some parts seem to be outdated and havent been
> tested/updated with a recent version. I dont know about the cms
> you use but might it be possible to add 2 types of information to
> each documenation post?

All the docs are Markdown files hosted from the qubes-doc GitHub repo,
and the site is built with Jekyll. You can read about this here:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/

The documentation is almost entirely a volunteer effort. You're more
than welcome to contribute!

> 1.) The date/author who wrote this ( so we the user have an
> understanding of how "up to date" this documenation is,

There's an open issue for the timestamp part:

https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/2169

Haven't figured out a good way to implement this. Help wanted.

However, this actually isn't much of a problem, because you can
already easily click through to the source page on GitHub (a
convenient "View Page Source" link is provided on every doc page) to
see the last commit date and who authored the commit. You can even see
who contributed each part of the doc.

> or who to contact in case we find some problems worth updating,
> maybe even add a mailto:upda...@qubes-XX.org href there, or
> whatever you use )

If you find a problem, please edit the page! There's a convenient
"Edit This Page" link on every doc page that takes you directly to an
editor in GitHub. You can then submit a pull request to have your edit
merged.

I appreciate the suggestion regarding an email address, but frankly, I
think that trying to do accept doc updates via email would be
*extremely* sub-optimal relative to our current pull request model,
since it means that someone would have to monitor this email address,
people would try to submit doc updates in all manner of possible
formats, and the maintainer would have to somehow convert these
formats into a format compatible with our system. It would make the
process much more labor intensive while simultaneously encouraging
low-quality submissions, which would be very inefficient and
unproductive overall, IMHO.

(I've added a link to the Documentation Guidelines page to the
sidebar. I hope that this will make it easier for users to find out
how they can contribute to the docs.)

> 2.) Which version of qubes this has been tested with
>
> Most users that are familiar with qubes probably know roughly when
> which parts got added etc, but for the new user i think it might
> be a good indication to know how "fresh" this documentation is.
> For example there is a documenation which talks about how to build
> prop nvidia drivers and it contains kernel versions 2.6*, so it is
> clearly outdated, and it did not work for me at all.
>

Generally, the docs are supposed to apply to whichever Qubes versions
are currently supported, but I agree that it's better, in many cases,
to explicitly state which version of Qubes a certain set of
instructions has been tested with. (We already do this on many
important doc pages, such as the pages on updating Fedora templates
and emergency backup recovery.)

I've added a point in the doc guidelines encouraging contributors to
do this:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/#contribution-suggestions

>
> Another suggestion would be to allow users to comment the
> documenation ( such as "warning I tested the installation of
> nvidia drivers, but i failed, the documenation is outdated" ). That
> would probably satisfy users a lot by not spending a lot off time
> on the same problems, coming to the same conclusions.

It's already possible to do this, and users are encouraged to do so!
As mentioned above, anyone can edit the docs and submit a pull
request. This includes adding a note with a link to a discussion
thread, indicating that the user had trouble on a certain version of
Qubes.

However, let me warn you about something that I have seen commonly
happen: A user will *incorrectly* try to implement a set of
instructions, conclude that the instructions (rather than the user
himself or herself is at fault), and submit a bug report or doc edit
stating that Qubes and/or the docs are broken. Obviously, we would
like to avoid these kinds of spurious reports and updates, since they
waste valuable time, so there is an advantage to not having *too* low
of a bar for people submit claims of this kind.

Having said that, I've also added a point in the doc guidelines
encouraging contributors to add such comments after thorough testing:

https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/doc-guidelines/#contribution-suggestions

> I understand that you prefere google groups for your workflow.

(Google Groups is just for the mailing lists.)

> Maybe just link in a google group post like this to every
> documenation, that would allow users to give their input and you
> guys(and girls) to keep using your workflow with google groups
>

Users are free to make threads in the mailing lists about
documentation issues (and many do). I think it makes more sense to
create threads and link them in the docs only when there is something
to talk about, though.

> And my last suggestions since im already bashing the doc hard (
> altough i do like it ;) ). The troubleshooting sidebar on the
> right. It would be better to disable that on mobile devices, it
> takes up half the screen on my mobile.
>

The website uses a pretty standard responsive design scheme that
automatically moves the side bar to the bottom at narrow screen
resolutions. It sounds like maybe you have an "in-between" resolution
that doesn't trigger this. What resolution is your mobile device's
screen? Maybe we need to tweak the thresholds.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[loeken internetzme]

Oh,
I somehow missed that fact that we can edit parts via git :) - yes then the email makes no sense if the docs are user driven. I ll read up on the documentation-part ( and maybe commit some improvments ), it sounds straight forward. thanks for all the details Andrew

About the phone its a oneplusone ( a bit larger phone). According to the app "Screen Resolution" i have a 1920x1080. https://owncloud.internetz.me/index.php/s/w7V2CdhqZuo1msM this is how the site looks like, so 1/3 of the whole site is unused cause of the sidebar on the right.

greetings loeken

[Andrew David Wong]

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Hash: SHA512

On 2017-01-23 05:14, loeken internetzme wrote:
> Oh, I somehow missed that fact that we can edit parts via git :) -
> yes then the email makes no sense if the docs are user driven. I ll
> read up on the documentation-part ( and maybe commit some
> improvments ), it sounds straight forward. thanks for all the
> details Andrew
>

Sure thing. Thanks for contributing! :)

> About the phone its a oneplusone ( a bit larger phone). According
> to the app "Screen Resolution" i have a 1920x1080.
> https://owncloud.internetz.me/index.php/s/w7V2CdhqZuo1msM this is
> how the site looks like, so 1/3 of the whole site is unused cause
> of the sidebar on the right.
>

How does it look now? I've just improved the responsiveness of the
sidebar.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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[loeken internetzme]

Much better readability. there is still this line element left over, maybe hide that aswell. but the text is now much better to read

https://owncloud.internetz.me/index.php/s/SVjEy5zuNvec4W4

[Andrew David Wong]

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Fixed. Thanks.

- --
Andrew David Wong (Axon)
Community Manager, Qubes OS
https://www.qubes-os.org
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