I really don't want to be right about this, BUT...

[fuzzy wozzy]

let's face it...
you still need lisp/prolog if you're gonna do some serious ai programming,
and apl or at the very least fortran, for serious number crunching,
but... but,
it seems to me that everywhere I look, at least when it comes to web programming,
(and I hope that experts in their respective fields will prove me wrong), javascript is the King.

could shen or common lisp help improve on the web programming that cannot be done in javascript?
maybe... perhaps... most likely?
ruby rail via ruby... phoenix via elixir... are they a quantum leap from where javascript is?
or a mere convenience in a sense that you could continue using ruby or elixir while doing web
programming that could be just as finely be done in javascript? is this a progress or reinventing the wheel
with some prertty gui's?

no one will stop you if you claim that this is indeed progress or even an evolution in the computing revolution that got
started some half+ century ago, sure, whatever makes your world feel a little more safe for a little while longer...

but, really, in all seriousness, what does shen or prolog contribute to the quantum evolution-ness of web designing
that javascript has not already proven to be capable of a thousand times over? just my two...

[Antti Ylikoski]

This is an aside, but see the following ones:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Introduction-Neural-Networks-Java-2nd/dp/1604390085

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Java-Artificial-Intelligence-Programming-Algorithms-ebook/dp/B01A766DJS

Dr AJY

HELSINKI

Finland, the E.U.

[Brandon Adams]

Hi,

Semi-casual observer and never a contributor here, but I've experimented with writing some of the hairiest parts of my webservice using fully typed-checked Shen and calling the Shen code from the webapp written in Clojure (I greatly prefer Clojure's syntax to that Shen's, but that is a personal aesthetic). This isn't too difficult, and helps alleviate the need to develop things like HTTP parsers or template generation libraries in Shen (which seems like wasted effort IMO). I don't see a reason why you couldn't also do this from Javascript, Python, or Common Lisp. If there is some part of your application that could greatly benefit from Shen's type system, there isn't much to stop you from treating Shen as a DSL and embedding it. 

- Brandon Adams

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[Mark Tarver]

Shen was implemented in Javascript a long time ago.  The REPL is available from the home page.

Mark

[fuzzy wozzy]

that's probably *exactly* my point, I mean, probably...
shen is so advanced that it could probably take us to the moon and back,
and yet.., and y...e...t...

in my amateurish uninformed opinion, I think we need something like "euler's 1000 problems in shen", why?
it's, of course, obvious to see "why", let's face it... maybe I had a tiny-little to do with the birth of the shen PROFESSIONAL,
ok, maybe a lot, even... when it comes to dr. tarver, you'd have to be a hopeless fool to believe that we're dealing with
an *ordinary" genius, and I do emphasize the word "genius", but be that as it were, even among "lisp" languages, we're
definitely *NOT* dealing with *ordinary* lisp... are you with me so far? good, because if you ARE, then you will quickly
REALIZE that everything I say here deeply and irresistably resonates with you, but I digress (perhaps too much), but my
point, pointless as it were, is that, sure, it's great that there are close to (or over, by now) 500+ subscribers to shen PROFESSIONAL
by now, congrats, etc... but... but!

it's a smart move, in my opinion, to offer a watered-down version (until all you taste is WATER, which is alright, water is good too),
of shen PROFEASSIONAL, but still, I firmly believe, you need to entice and encourage the newcomers, perhaps to the complete
idea, or dare we say, the shenanigans, of functional programming, let alone lisp-family langauge that you've always known about and loved,
because it's easy enough to say, aww, well, five years or ten years down the line, who knows, and who cares... but perhaps those who eat,
might...

shen might be where clojure is technically-speaking (maybe, maybe no, you be the judge), but it's not nowhere near where clojure is
if richie hickey was able to raise enough funds to sustain himself and the langauge of his love while he was working on XYZ features of
clojure, which may not be where shen can claim to be up to par with... so I don't know where I'm going with this thoiught, but you shenturians
are purportedly the smart ones, so I'm sure not only will you figure it out to a T, but tell me and correct me as to where I was right on or off...

thank you.

[Mark Tarver]

so I don't know where I'm going with this thoiught

Me neither.  I think the important point is that Shen is developing fast and we've found a model that works.  People will soon get a chance to support this work at a reasonable monthly rate that keeps Shen alive and provides them with something in return for their contribution.  Seems sound to me.

Years into the future the entire SP tool chain will probably go OS because I'm not immortal.   So people who decide to fund SP will essentially be helping humanity in the longest term as well as themselves.   

The job of educating the programming community in Shen is a lifetime's work.   Shenturians like Aditya are doing that.  My job is to leave with you a body of work that you can pass on.

Mark

[Robert Herman]

Pardon my confusion here, but are you calling into the JS, Clojure or JVM port of Shen?

Sounds interesting. I am just learning Clojure, and the Luminus framework. I love Shen, but I haven't found how to use it in my work just yet.

Rob

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