Non-commercial industry?

[david_c]

Hi all,

This is a bit of a long-shot, but I was wondering ...

How about trying to form a discussion circle for people interested in
the idea of "non-commercial industry"?

The "gift economy" is practiced every day in people's private lives -
at home, amongst friends, etc.. Might the reason it hasn't really
flourished be that it doesn't exist in _industry_?

I set up a Google group a few months ago for discussion of this and
related topics: http://groups.google.com/group/insync-discuss/about .
I'm thinking of changing the name to "NCI" (for "Non-Commercial
Industry") - or something like that.

I have recently discovered Google Plus, however. Maybe that would be a
more suitable venue for discussion? (or Diaspora - or
sharedearth.net?)

Incidentally, is there any point in working towards a post-scarcity
society if it remains a commercial one? (I mean ... There's no point
in telling someone they're living in a "post-scarcity" society if they
can't afford the supposedly "abundant" goods, is there?)

Something like a LinkedIn platform for "non-commercial industry"
people would be cool, no?

(Oh, well - one can dream! :))

Greetings to all
David Collins

[Patrick Anderson]

Hi David and everyone,

> is there any point in working towards a post-scarcity
> society if it remains a commercial one?

i doubt we can reach our goal instantaneously, and so envision this as
a long and imperfect journey from where we are now.

We each have our own ideas about how this should play-out, and
probably even differ in what we think the end-goal really is as far as
day-to-day consequences, and what will be 'expected' of each of us to
make sure that goal is retained (is not re-captured by the current
system or some other system).

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see commerce (exchange itself)
as being the actual problem, but more of a 'symptom' of the problem.

I believe the problem is being caused by a mis-allocation of property
ownership caused by our misunderstanding and mistreatment of Profit.

For example, the owner of a milk-cow does not buy milk, because he
owns it even before it has been harvested.

Similarly, if the co-owners of a dairy are the consumers of that milk,
and accept that Product as the return for the risk of investment, then
there is no buying/selling of the milk, because it is already in the
hands of those who will use it.

There are more details, but I will stop for now...

Sincerely,
Patrick Anderson
http://SocialSufficiencyCoalition.BlogSpot.com

[Nathan Cravens]

David,

No doubt life needs and comforts for zero price are ideal.

In regard to general discussion, the nearest I've found is the G+
group Post-Scarcity Warriors, recently followed by Open Manufacturing
at G+. If you start a G+ group, Open Manufacturing will follow you. :)

Post-Scarcity Warriors
https://plus.google.com/u/0/108518263530170635868/posts

A good question to ask: What is needed for a zero price outcome?

0. Open Data
1. Public Resource Interface. Like ‘The Solar System: Explore Your
Backyard’ meets Freecycle meets Facebook meets TinkerCAD.
* Production Engine
** Provides a design platform to create a novel design or uses
ready-made designs
** Determines where product and product parts are made
* Distribution Engine
** Alerts automated vehicles to retrieve and deliver materials or products
2. Common Land. (i.e. La Via Campesina and Rajastan)
3. Materials Commons. Free material for product construction. Start
with dumps before exploring extraction.
4. Industrial Commons. Places to go to make, learn, or have them made.
(i.e. Open Source Ecology and Wikispeed)
5. Robotics Network. For transport, manufacturing, and service. Robots
are divided into three types:
* Fabots - make things
* Servibots - feed materials to fabots and distribots or people
* Distribots - deliver materials to or from factory and user location
6. Transport Commons. Distribots are registered for non-commercial use
for free to use road or rail built to last
7. Labor Commons. People willingly, and with a sense of purpose, work
for free, and find such work fulfilling.

We nearly have everything for mainstreaming true gift economy. Its
possible today and will only become more practical as technology
develops; or better; as technology itself becomes easier and more
interesting to develop.

Free Distribution
Autonomous vehicles, without needing a driver, enables the
streamlining of distribution: shipping a product from the factory to
the end user, removing the need to staff or waste space as warehouses
or retail shops. The Edison 2 four passenger hybrid vehicle boasts a
very impressive 350mpg. Have vehicles chain together during transit
and this could prevent vehicles from refueling, having batteries
charged from tire rotations (and solar panels if needed) as the
vehicle(s) in front pull the train.

Automated Distribution Systems
http://p2pfoundation.net/Automated_Distribution_Systems

Free Production
ABB is preparing 1 million robots to replace 1.2 million Foxconn
workers; and those put out of work would find the gift option more
attractive than other options. ASIMO's latest demostration shows the
best in tactile robotics today, for instance, the ability to twist and
remove the top lid of a cup and pour liquid into another cup, almost
as quickly as a person can, is rather impressive. Bosch is training a
PR2 how to use its power tools. ROS recently launched the
ROS-Industrial platform.

Free Space & Materials
Here it is a matter of establishing the space and raw materials within
it as a free resource. How to persuade land owners is a very good
question to answer. Difficulty may increase if a material is rare or
quantity of demand is high. Homesteading provides one answer; reviving
local food production; distributing the homesteader's surplus locally
by means of perhaps a Segway-based robotic delivery system able to
carry multiple containers to homes in the neighborhood. Community
supported agriculture (CSA) platforms are another option, where people
buy shares that ideally pay for food production, equally distributed
come harvest. For a non-commercial scenario, all the farmer's material
and labor needs are gifted by the local community in return for great
food. When this idea was mentioned to my CSA director friend, he was
cynical toward the idea, but if we have improved online interfaces
helping people gift stuff in the way Kickstarter and Indiegogo gifts
money, then the coordination ability of our hypothetical public
resource interface (able to visualize the once 'invisible hand')
ensures the farmer gets what the farm needs for free for the benefit
of the farmer's community.

Conclusion
Common sense expects a free-commercial hybrid form at first. Like
Linux, most of its developers are paid, but the product does well
because the code is open and free: it reduces development redundancy;
a problem solved for one company is solved for another user with the
same challenge; further reducing costs and increasing efficiency and
quality. Commercial firms producing hardware with several parts will
begin to fund free/open hardware parts to replace elements of
commercial products for competitive advantage: a better quality, less
expensive product than rivals in the marketplace, until common space
and material rights are standardized and robotics software and
hardware become more flexible and creative to render any commercial
element of products obsolete.


Best.
Nathan

[david_c]

Hi Patrick. Hi Nathan. Thanks both for your input.

I appreciate your honesty Patrick. I try not to be dogmatic about my
stance on this issue. I imagine there is some overlap between what we
have in mind, so perhaps we can work together anyway. In one sense,
perhaps it's unfortunate I have resorted to the term "non-commercial"
- as this only defines what I _don't_ want.

Nathan: those are valuable insights. Incidentally, I was thinking of
autonomous cars only this week. There's lots of food for thought in
your comments, and I won't try to respond in detail now. It's great to
see you're thinking along those lines though. Also, I agree that a
hybrid "free/commercial" paradigm seems likely in the future (I have
tended to refer to it as "semi-commercial" practice, but I think we
mean the same thing.)

Regards
David

P.S. Do you think it would be ok if I mentioned this on the Open
Manufacturing list?

On May 6, 4:46 am, Nathan Cravens <knu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Post-Scarcity Warriorshttps://plus.google.com/u/0/108518263530170635868/posts

> Automated Distribution Systemshttp://p2pfoundation.net/Automated_Distribution_Systems