Armed Rebels Seize Michigan Statehouse

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Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 8:59:22 PM4/30/20
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Let's get one thing straight: when you show up with guns of any sort, never mind military-style weapons and paramilitary combat dress, to intimidate legislators and public officials with the threat of violence, you're not Americans engaging in peaceful "protest" as guaranteed by the First Amendment -- "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

You're violent rebels engaging in armed insurrection. You're attempting to overthrow democracy, the rule of law, and the Constitutional order.

Armed demonstrators storm Michigan State House over stay-at-home order

April 30, 2020 | 4:46pm




Hundreds of angry demonstrators, some of them armed with rifles, stormed Michigan’s State House on Thursday to protest stay-at-home orders — terrifying lawmakers who wore bulletproof vests to protect themselves.

The protesters forced their way into the Capitol in Lansing to urge Michigan officials to end a state of emergency as the Wolverine State continues to battle one of the worst COVID-19 outbreaks in the country.

Thursday’s event reached a terrifying climax when Capitol police were forced to protect lawmakers as protesters tried to storm their way into the chamber, the Detroit Free Press reported.

In one frightening scene, several men armed with rifles made their way into the public gallery and began shouting at senators on the floor beneath them, according to an account by one lawmaker.

“Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us,” Michigan State Sen. Dayna Polehanki wrote on Twitter, sharing a photo of the demonstrators.

“Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today.”

In another video posted online, protesters, most of them not wearing masks, started chanting to be let into the chamber, yelling, “This is the people’s house, you cannot lock us up.”

View image on Twitter

Michigan has been rocked by protests and unrest for weeks after Gov. Gretchen Whitmer declared a state of emergency and imposed a restrictive shutdown on the state’s economy.

Facing a wave of criticism and armed protests outside her home, Whitmer eased restrictions to allow some people to return to work as many feared the stay-home order would ruin small businesses.

A state of emergency remains in place until the middle of May but many state Republican lawmakers are mounting efforts to restrict Whitmer’s power.


herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:07:55 PM4/30/20
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Sorry, Lobo, but on the thread right below, one minute ago, I told btdt the nypost is not a credible source, so I'll post this article from the bbc., maybe more.  (Again, the timing is extraordinarily weird/funny/ironic/awful/something....)


Gun-toting protesters against Michigan's coronavirus lockdown have rallied in the state capitol building.

Hundreds of demonstrators, a few of them armed, gathered in Lansing and many did not wear masks or socially distance.

Police checked their temperatures before some were allowed into the capitol, where lawmakers were debating.

Governor Gretchen Whitmer, a Democrat, extended her stay-at-home mandate earlier this month until 15 May.

Michigan is one of the US states hardest hit by the coronavirus, with 3,788 Covid-19 deaths.

More than 41,000 infections have been recorded across the state, with most found in the Detroit metro area.

Thursday's protest, dubbed the "American Patriot Rally", was organised by Michigan United for Liberty. It called for state businesses to reopen on 1 May in violation of state orders.

It is legal to bear firearms inside the statehouse, and several demonstrators were openly carrying guns in the Senate gallery.

But some armed protesters reportedly tried to enter the floor of the chamber, and were blocked by state police and sergeants-at-arms.

One state senator said several of her colleagues wore bulletproof vests.

Footage of protesters outside the building showed them chanting "Let us in!", "Let us work" and "This is the people's house, you cannot lock us out".

"Governor Whitmer, and our state legislature, it's over with. Open this state," said Republican congressional candidate Mike Detmer.

"Let's get businesses back open again. Let's make sure there are jobs to go back to."

"The virus is here," one demonstrator, Joni George, told the Associated Press. "It's going to be here... It's time to let people go back to work. That's all there is to it."

The rally is believed to have been the largest of its type since one on 15 April when Michigan protesters sat in their cars in order to create traffic around the statehouse.

President Donald Trump threw his support behind demonstrators at the time, tweeting "LIBERATE MICHIGAN". Some critics said his tweets were an attempt to foment insurrection.

Senator Dayna Polehanki
@SenPolehanki
Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us. Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today. #mileg
View image on Twitter
29.1K
12:38 PM - Apr 30, 2020 · Lansing, MI
16.9K people are talking about this

On Thursday, the Republican-controlled legislature refused Governor Whitmer's request to extend her emergency orders.

They also cleared the way for her to be sued over her handling of the pandemic. She hit back that she does not need legislative authorisation for the extension.

On Wednesday, the governor accused Republicans of treating the virus like a "political problem", rather than "a public health crisis".

Many US states - including Georgia, Oklahoma and South Carolina - have taken steps to loosen virus mitigation restrictions.

On Wednesday, a Michigan court ruled that the governor's lockdown orders were not unconstitutional, as five state residents had claimed in a lawsuit against the governor.

"Although the Court is painfully aware of the difficulties of living under the restrictions of these executive orders, those difficulties are temporary, while to those who contract the virus and cannot recover (and to their family members and friends), it is all too permanent," Michigan Court of Claims Judge Christopher M Murray wrote in a ruling.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:09:57 PM4/30/20
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Self-centered assholes.  Maybe they're deliberately trying to infect people.

A protester screams in a cops face

Navy

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:11:26 PM4/30/20
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Get back to us when they step over the peacably assembling in protest mode.

Did one of them say they dream of blowing up the White House like slut Madonna did? 

Stop freaking and start listening.


On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:59:22 PM UTC-6, Lobo wrote:
Let's get one thing straight: when you show up with guns of any sort, never mind military-style weapons and paramilitary combat dress, to intimidate legislators and public officials with the threat of violence, you're not Americans engaging in peaceful "protest" as guaranteed by the First Amendment -- "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

You're armed rebels engaging in armed insurrection. You're attempting to overthrow democracy, the rule of law, and the Constitutional order.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:12:45 PM4/30/20
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That photo isn't "peaceful", navy.

That right-wing trumpster asshole looks to be trying to infect the law enforcement agent who is doing his job.

A protester screams in a cops face

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:27:56 PM4/30/20
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<<Sorry, Lobo, but on the thread right below, one minute ago, I told btdt the nypost is not a credible source, so I'll post this article from the bbc., maybe more.  (Again, the timing is extraordinarily weird/funny/ironic/awful/something....)>>

What did you find wrong about the NY Post story? The BBC story includes more detail, but I don't see where it contradicts the other.

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:34:50 PM4/30/20
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<<Get back to us when they step over the peacably assembling in protest mode.>>

They stormed the statehouse with guns, to intimidate lawmakers with the threat of violence.

<<Did one of them say they dream of blowing up the White House like slut Madonna did?>>

Did Madonna storm the White House with explosives?

<<Stop freaking and start listening.>>

You might humor a person pointing a gun at you, but you only "listen" to them until they can be disarmed and taken down. If these people have something to say, then they should say it the peaceful, democratic, Constitutional way.


On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 9:11:26 PM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

Navy

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:51:00 PM4/30/20
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Having a firearm is only threatening if they are pointing it at you. 

It is a right to bare arms in this country. Or did you forget that?

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:51:57 PM4/30/20
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I didn't even read the nypost article.  On the other thread, however, I had impugned the overall credibility of the nypost, so I figured I should acknowledge what I had just done and post something from another source.

You and your thread were caught in the crossfire, so to speak.

My apologies.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 9:57:54 PM4/30/20
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It's intimidating, which is the point of bringing one.

As for whether they may legally bring firearms into a statehouse:  that's not a right granted by the Constitution ("the right to bare arms").  It's a legal right determined by the legislatures of each state.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:00:17 PM4/30/20
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Typical rabid right-winger bully:

ImStillMags Mags

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:00:46 PM4/30/20
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what is the point of carrying guns into a statehouse???    

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:05:59 PM4/30/20
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So much for any pretense of "spontaneous" protesting....


...The slow reopening of state economies around the country has taken on political overtones, as Republican politicians and individuals affiliated with Trump’s re-election promoted such protests in electoral swing states, such as Michigan....

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:23:40 PM4/30/20
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...Many people at Thursday’s “American Patriot Rally”, including militia group members carrying firearms and people with pro-Trump signs, appeared to be ignoring state social-distancing guidelines.

Members of the Michigan Liberty Militia were at the protest, armed with guns, and one member said that the group was there as a “security detail” for the event organizers, MLive.com reported. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors American extremist organizations, includes a “Michigan Liberty Militia” among its list of extreme antigovernment groups....

Other speakers at the event, which had different organizers than the Operation Gridlock protest, questioned the deadliness of Covid-19. They also said Whitmer’s stay-at-home order violated constitutional rights, and urged people to open their businesses on 1 May in disregard of her order....

A militia group stands in front of the governors office.

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:24:14 PM4/30/20
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<<Having a firearm is only threatening if they are pointing it at you.>>

Not when someone is making demands with their gun. Especially when they bring their guns and other paramilitary accouterments for the very purpose of intimidating you. The legislators at the Michigan statehouse certainly felt very threatened, with good reason.

Are you saying that you would not feel threatened if some big guy walked up to you in a parking lot and demanded your money after showing you his gun, even if  he didn't point it at you?

<<It is a right to bare arms in this country. Or did you forget that?>>

Even the Roberts Court didn't create an absolute right to bear arms anywhere, anytime, under any circumstances. They certainly didn't create a right to threaten and intimidate legislators with guns. As I said, that is NOT peaceful protest as guaranteed by the First Amendment. It's armed insurrection; an overthrow of democracy; forcing your views into law at gunpoint. Whatever you think the framers' reasons for the 2nd Amendment, that definitely wasn't it.


On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 9:51:00 PM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

Navy

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:26:12 PM4/30/20
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Are you intimidated when you sea a police officer with a gun on him/her? Or a hunter? Or a sharpshooter practicing? 

Stop being dramatic.

They are protesting peacfully...showing they will not allow their rights to be trampled on. 

It's the purist form of decent. Not your cup of tea I get it. You prefer pussy hats and rioting against the man.

To each there own.

Navy

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:26:51 PM4/30/20
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To announce they take allof their freedoms seriously.

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:32:35 PM4/30/20
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They're thugs, being egged on by thugs.


On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:05:59 PM UTC-4, herman wrote:

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:34:52 PM4/30/20
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These people are most definitely NOT law enforcement agents, who are trained to operate within the law and to adhere to certain rules.

These people are thugs.

I-think4me

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:34:53 PM4/30/20
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Are you intimidated when you sea a police officer with a gun on him/her?


--------
Do you dare not follow the orders of that police officer with a gun? If I walk into a bank with a gun and demand the teller give me all her money am I peacefully robbing the bank?

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:35:31 PM4/30/20
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Their rights are NOT "being trampled on".

The court has settled that.



On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:26:12 PM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:36:40 PM4/30/20
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To intimidate.

They can assemble without guns and still make the point they take their (but not our) rights seriously.

This has already been settled by the court, navy.

Troll hunter

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:52:51 PM4/30/20
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They should be shot on sight...Fuck the them they are nothing but scumbags of the lowest order ...

Troll hunter

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:53:16 PM4/30/20
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Bullshit....

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:54:12 PM4/30/20
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<<Are you intimidated when you sea a police officer with a gun on him/her?>>

If he's telling me to do something against my will? Of course I am. It's why he carries a gun. But at least he's a peace officer; someone society has authorized to use force if necessary to enforce laws.

<<Or a hunter? Or a sharpshooter practicing?>>

If a hunter or a target shooter or anyone else came up to me and made demands of me after showing me his gun, of course I would feel intimidated. If he's strongly implying that if I don't do what he says he'll shoot me, how could I NOT feel intimidated?

<<Stop being dramatic.>>

Armed gunmen forcing their way into a state capitol to make demands is dramatic. Not talking about it.

<<They are protesting peacfully...showing they will not allow their rights to be trampled on.>>

Demonstrating with arms is violent by definition.

<<It's the purist form of decent. Not your cup of tea I get it. You prefer pussy hats and rioting against the man.>>

Whether armed insurrection is the purest form of dissent or not -- and that's what threatening lawmakers with guns amounts to -- there's nothing decent about it. It's how they do things in third world banana republics, not liberal democracies.



On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:26:12 PM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:54:37 PM4/30/20
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Thugs and scumbags who don't give a damn about infecting other Americans.

Thugs and scumbags who don't want to obey laws.

Thugs and scumbags who themselves are dupes for powerful and super-rich rabid right-wing interests.

Susiejoe

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:55:50 PM4/30/20
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spermie, the BBC is not a credible source for anything but gov propaganda  

Find another.  

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:56:40 PM4/30/20
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Show me.

Post its rating from irie's mediabias site.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 10:59:06 PM4/30/20
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Ooop....Btdt strikes out again!

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/

High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information.

Libtards hate America

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Apr 30, 2020, 11:01:20 PM4/30/20
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American citizens exercising their constitutional rights.

herman

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Apr 30, 2020, 11:05:45 PM4/30/20
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American citizens' intimidating other Americans.

American thugs and scumbags who don't want to follow the law, mark.

Lobo

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Apr 30, 2020, 11:06:35 PM4/30/20
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<<the BBC is not a credible source for anything but gov propaganda>>

If it were, what conceivable interest would the Boris Johnson government have in what's going on in Michigan?

Or did you mean the US government under Trump? Or perhaps the Michigan state government?


On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:55:50 PM UTC-4, Susiejoe wrote:

Libtards hate America

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May 1, 2020, 7:36:48 AM5/1/20
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American citizens exercising their constitutional rights.

A concept foreign to libtards.

Troll hunter

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May 1, 2020, 9:25:31 AM5/1/20
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You mean like Fox DDT ? An incredible source of dis information for the Chump masses...LOL you are such an idiot, no wonder Mags took pity on you,

Troll hunter

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May 1, 2020, 9:28:05 AM5/1/20
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Remember Iraq, Vietnam, all those would be soldiers that carry guns over here being cannon fodder for the real soldiers LOL...Jesus, a bunch of rednecks walking around looking Macho...I be the Dork has lots of pictures in his mobile garden shed that he lives in of these Macho men...and my camel of course that he has abused....

herman

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May 1, 2020, 5:13:51 PM5/1/20
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Forget your notion that objecting to having people with guns in the statehouse is "being dramatic".  This guy - who was there - says they're intimidating:


Lansing, MI (WLNS) – Michigan Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey is taking to social media to voice his position on some of Thursday’s protesters who gathered inside and outside the Capitol Thursday.

Sen. Mike Shirkey
@SenMikeShirkey
My statement on so-called protestors who used intimidation and the threat of physical harm to stir up fear and feed rancor. I condemn their behavior and  tactics. They do not represent the Senate Republicans. At best, those so-called protestors are a bunch of jackasses.
View image on Twitter
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3:20 PM - May 1, 2020
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Even while other protesters roamed the Capitol Thursday, chanting and crowding the halls, Shirkey did have discussions with a number of people in the Senate gallery.

The protests Thursday were held on the Capitol lawn where a line-up of speakers addressed the crowd, estimated by police to be between 800-1,000 people.

Groups were later admitted into the Capitol where the protests continued.

They were calling for Governor Whitmer to relax her “Stay Home – Stay Safe” restrictions, currently scheduled to remain in place until May 15.



On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 10:26:12 PM UTC-4, Navy wrote:

Libtards hate America

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May 1, 2020, 5:22:54 PM5/1/20
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herman

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May 1, 2020, 5:28:31 PM5/1/20
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No one has said they don't have the right to protest, mark.

What I've said is this:  bringing arms into the statehouse, whether it's legal or not, as part of a protest makes no sense.  Bringing arms on this venture is an obvious show of intimidation.


Lobo

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May 1, 2020, 5:50:47 PM5/1/20
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<<American citizens exercising their constitutional rights.>>

Righties have some pretty bizarre notions about what constitutes constitutional rights and what doesn't. It's probably best summed up by the fact that Michigan GOPers, kowtowing to the craziest of crazies at the NRA, made it legal to bring guns into the state capitol building to violently intimidate legislators with -- to make laws the way they do it in unstable banana republics -- but outlawed demonstrators peacefully bringing in protest signs!

In GOPerland, the Constitution begins and ends with the second half of the 2nd Amendment, interpreted to mean something the authors of the amendment never intended. But the 1st Amendment is apparently moot.

Bring your guns, leave your signs: Michigan Capitol rules in spotlight at Second Amendment rally
Updated Jan 20, 2019; Posted Oct 10, 2013

(Jonathan Oosting | MLive.com)

Joe Droelle of Redford at a Second Amendment rally at the Michigan Capitol on Oct. 9, 2013.

LANSING, MI -- Second Amendment advocates exercised their legal right to carry pistols and rifles into the Michigan Capitol on Wednesday, but they had to leave their signs -- and some might argue, their First Amendment rights -- at the door.

Michigan Capitol Committee rules prohibit hand-carried and hand-stick signs in the 135-year-old building due to concerns that they could accidentally scratch the decorative paint or be dropped from upper floors onto unsuspecting tourists on the rotunda floor below.

Michigan State Police who work at the building regularly enforce the sign rule, but there is no rule or law preventing gun owners from carrying their weapons into the Capitol.

"It's always been on the books -- even before the last constitutional convention -- the right to open carry in Michigan," said Sgt. Jeffrey Held of the Michigan State Police. "Nobody's ever changed it."

Capitol facilities manager Steve Benkovsky, who is in charge of maintaining the historic structure, acknowledged it seems "bizarre" that the some of the same activists allowed in the building with guns are required to drop their signs before entering.

If he had his way, long rifles wouldn't be allowed in either.

"We just worry about damaging the walls, because on the decorative paint, a sign turning the wrong way or even a rifle can gouge the thing," Benkovsky said. "Until one of the legislators comes up and says let's make this a weapon-free zone, or they put in some stipulation like you can't bring long rifles in here but you can wear sidearms, I've got to live with it. It's not a fun thing though. It's tough."

The gun owners at the Capitol on Wednesday where preaching a different message. They were visiting their local lawmakers and asking them to support several bills, including one measure that would remove restrictions on where you can carry a concealed weapon in Michigan, including schools, churches and other "gun-free" zones.

Republican Gov. Rick Snyder vetoed a similar bill last year in the wake of a fatal school shooting in Connecticut, but activists hope that lawmakers will advance the proposal again this session.

"There's going to always be crazy people out there that aren't going to follow the law," said Joe Droelle of Redford. "So regardless of what laws you change to make it tougher on the law abiding citizens, the crazy people are still going to do crazy things. There's no getting around that."

Droelle, who wore a rifle strapped across the front of his chest, acknowledged that he received an odd look or two when he walked through the Capitol. But he noted that he passed a group of school kids on a building tour without incident.

Capitol facilities staff call schools who have scheduled field trips when they know that open-carry advocates are going to be on the premises, giving teachers the option to reschedule or the ability to prepare their students so they are not frightened.

State Police also station additional troopers inside and outside the building.

"The only problems we get are from people who aren't expecting to see them at the Capitol when they come to visit," said Held. "And so that's where the tension has been in the past. People not knowing the law and seeing that on a school trip. We kind of like to have a couple extra guys around for a calming effect, in that regard."

Many of the activists gathered at the Capitol this week had attended a larger rally at the building in March and already knew they'd be allowed to bring their guns -- but not their signs -- inside. Others were surprised by the rule.

Ari Adler, a spokesperson for House Republicans, said the long-running sign prohibition was inspired by past incidents -- such as individuals taping signs to the walls or swinging them around and injuring others.

State Police have made exceptions to the sign rule, allowing individuals to wear them around their neck or secured to their body.

"You can open carry in the Capitol, but you can't brandish," Adler pointed out, explaining that gun owners cannot draw their weapons inside. "You can have it slung over your shoulder or on your hip. So in comparison, yeah, it's actually less dangerous to have a gun in the Capitol than a sign. You brandish a sign, but you can't brandish a gun."

Jonathan Oosting is a Capitol reporter for MLive Media Group. Email him, find him on Google+ or follow him on Twitter.

herman

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May 1, 2020, 5:57:39 PM5/1/20
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including one measure that would remove restrictions on where you can carry a concealed weapon in Michigan, including schools, churches and other "gun-free" zones.

Republican Gov. Rick Snyder vetoed a similar bill last year in the wake of a fatal school shooting in Connecticut, but activists hope that lawmakers will advance the proposal again this session.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today, a Goper-controlled state government would probably figure the optics of NOT allowing guns in primary, elementary, and high schools would be worse.

herman

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May 1, 2020, 5:59:34 PM5/1/20
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Droelle, who wore a rifle strapped across the front of his chest, acknowledged that he received an odd look or two when he walked through the Capitol. But he noted that he passed a group of school kids on a building tour without incident.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What kind of "incident" did he envision?  Children charging him and grabbing the rifle and pointing it at him?  At each other?


Lobo

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May 1, 2020, 7:47:46 PM5/1/20
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Rep<<What kind of "incident" did he envision?  Children charging him and grabbing the rifle and pointing it at him?  At each other?>>

Throw spitballs, call him funny names, laugh at him behind his back... no telling what terroristic acts those brats might pull. But if he had to take down a few of them with his assault rifle, he was ready to Stand His Ground for God, Trump, and the Second by god Amendment, by god!

Sic semper, dude! MAGA! The Jews Will Not Replace Us...!


Domestic Enemy Trump

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May 1, 2020, 9:59:28 PM5/1/20
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This is terrorism plain and simple. He white trash revolt won't work, and might get a lot of people killed. Law enforcement should be showing up in full force with several SWAT teams to deal with those terrorists.

Lobo

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May 1, 2020, 11:33:32 PM5/1/20
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<<This is terrorism plain and simple. He white trash revolt won't work, and might get a lot of people killed. Law enforcement should be showing up in full force with several SWAT teams to deal with those terrorists.>>

I hate to imagine what they'll do when he loses the election, and Trump incites them to violence. Michael Cohen, who knows Trump better than anyone, says that "there will never be a peaceful transition of power" if he loses.

Since George Washington, nothing has been more fundamental to our experiment in self-government than that transition, which has always been done peacefully no matter how disappointed, frustrated or angry the losers. But Trump thinks solely of himself, and his hardcore followers are insane.

Troll hunter

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May 2, 2020, 10:56:16 AM5/2/20
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Chump bleeds, that is all what matters, The secret service have sworn to protect the President, When Chump loses, he will no longer be President..Two in the head should be enough...
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