Using Gmail with PBM
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WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 8:26:35 PM12/20/20
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I have a faint recollection of somebody posting on here about how proud he was that he could access gmail through PBM. But my searches here show up a lot of hits that don't look relevant. I think that's because people with gmail accounts were posting on some other topics & my search decided the occurrence of the E-mail address with @gmail.com in it was a valid result for my search. If the person who is using gmail from PBM is still listening here, do please point me to your instructions for making PBM work with gmail. Thanks.
Bob
Dec 20, 2020, 10:06:51 PM12/20/20
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** Reply to message from WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> on Sun, 20 Dec 2020
17:26:35 -0800 (PST)
Try this
--
Robert Blair
17:26:35 -0800 (PST)
--
Robert Blair
WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 10:10:53 PM12/20/20
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Ummmm..... Bob........ My x-ray vision isn't working too well tonight. I can't see "this." Or are you still writing your post?
Carl Miller
Dec 20, 2020, 10:13:31 PM12/20/20
to polarba...@googlegroups.com
You have to setup the GMAIL side of things first, since PBM isn't supporting OAUTH authentication when connecting:
Once you follow those steps, you should be able to connect with PBM to GMail.
Carl
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 10:10 PM WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> wrote:
Ummmm..... Bob........ My x-ray vision isn't working too well tonight. I can't see "this." Or are you still writing your post?
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Bob
Dec 20, 2020, 10:20:10 PM12/20/20
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Try this https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7104828?hl=en.
What I do is to forward my gmail account to one of my email addresses which I
pop.
--
Robert Blair
WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 10:42:09 PM12/20/20
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Thank you both. I have some reading to do. I've only just a few hours ago activated the gmail account attached to my Google ID that I've had for years. I'm still getting used to the web-based gmail interface but I'd rather not learn it & stick with PBM. So I'm hoping I can do the stuff you guys are giving me. Wish me luck.
WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 11:27:14 PM12/20/20
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Well, I have mixed results. I was able to get PBM to access my gmail account via a POP3 input server. The last critical step that was buried several layers deep in the discussion was to enable less secure apps, which is not a Gmail setting but a Google account setting. In other words, it's a setting at a higher level. I also had to close & reopen PBM completely once. But after I retrieved the E-mails that were there, which were all duplicates of what I already had already retrieved earlier from my fuse server, they disappeared from the Gmail server. I did see a Gmail setting for deleting or not in the POP settings & I thought I had requested that they not be deleted. But they were. And why were they duplicates of what I had already received at fuse? Because apparently, even though I have my Groups setting so the connected E-mail address is my fuse address, Groups seems to be echoing all activity to BOTH E-mail destinations. Oh well. I can live with this.
IMAP4 isn't working at all. The PBM Java log just says, "Can't log on." Again, I think I followed your instructions. Maybe there's one additional step that isn't obvious that I need to do. It would be nice to get this working as well but at least POP3 seems to be more or less functional.
By the way, I keep seeing errors in the PBM Java log saying I can't save Settings when Preview is open, & I can't open Preview when Settings are open. I was very careful about this because I already knew Preview & Settings like to argue with each other. But the errors occur anyway. They don't seem to indicate any sort of problem because the changes I made in PBM Settings all took. I opened PBM Settings a few times to make sure.
WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 11:34:30 PM12/20/20
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Weirder still, the web interface to Gmail is currently saying I have some messages in my inbox but the PBM POP3 Preview says it's empty. I'm going to be REALLY careful with this.
WildWilly
Dec 20, 2020, 11:41:36 PM12/20/20
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And I have things under Social & Promotions that I can't delete. They actually have tags that say Ad but I can't delete them. And there's no way I'm opening them just to see if that enables deletion. They can sit there. I'm really good at ignoring junk.
WildWilly
Dec 21, 2020, 3:55:07 AM12/21/20
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On more careful inspection, I see that it's only PBM's POP3 Preview that thinks my Gmail inbox is empty. When I go into the web-based Gmail interface, the E-mails are actually still there. Why would PBM make it look like retrieved E-mails are immediately deleted from the server when web Gmail still shows the messages in my inbox? On a hunch, I closed PBM completely & relaunched it. POP3 Preview of my Gmail account still shows empty. My fuse account doesn't act like that. I know about the PBM setting that says to delete E-mails when they are retrieved. I do NOT have that checked. And I must have done it right in the Gmail settings since retrieving the E-mails into PBM did NOT delete them from Gmail, no matter what PBM POP3 Preview is showing me. Or rather, failing to show me. This is most perplexing.
WildWilly
Dec 21, 2020, 4:08:13 AM12/21/20
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Here's something else that's weird. I mentioned above that I was getting duplicates of all my posts to Groups. It seems like if I use Preview to get them from fuse & then from gmail, I get duplicates. But if I get them from gmail & then from fuse, they don't show up at fuse. I'm not 100% certain of this, though. I'll need some more experience with this before I decide definitely this is what I'm seeing.
WildWilly
Dec 21, 2020, 4:09:53 AM12/21/20
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Nope. Scratch that idea. I think I just observed one odd occurrence earlier & it's not repeating.
WildWilly
Dec 22, 2020, 8:19:27 AM12/22/20
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No, it's repeating but intermittently. I have my membership settings in the group set so that the E-mail that is supposed to be used is my fuse address, the one you can see beside my ID above my posts. But sometimes I get posts I make here at my fuse address & sometimes I don't. Similarly, sometimes I get posts at my gmail address & sometimes I don't. I don't know what to do.
Plus I have been completely unable to attach files or insert photo attachments using this lousy new groups interface. Got any ideas on that?
carlp...@gmail.com
Dec 22, 2020, 9:30:19 AM12/22/20
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When I use the "groups" interface, along the bottom there is a paper clip that allows attachments.
I normally use the GMail web app which is much richer in functionality.
Did you look at these settings in GMail? https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#settings/fwdandpop
You may have to tweak them to support what you're trying to do with POP3.
Lastly, there is a lot of non-standard stuff going on w/GMail to the point where the JavaMail API library has specific classes to manage GMail. It's likely that it would require integrating these classes into PBM to obtain the level of support you're looking for within PBM.
Carl
WildWilly
Dec 22, 2020, 3:57:45 PM12/22/20
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> ** Reply to message from "carlp...@gmail.com" <carlp...@gmail.com> on Tue, 22 Dec 2020 06:30:19 -0800 (PST)
> When I use the "groups" interface, along the bottom there is a paper clip
> that allows attachments.
Yes. Exactly. And it doesn't work for me. When I click that, I'm expecting to see some kind of file selection dialog. All I get is a blank page with a spinning circle in the middle. It never gets to the next stage. I've let it sit for several minutes & it never gets any further.
> I normally use the GMail web app which is much richer in functionality.
And much more cluttered up than PBM. And much more mouse-intensive. I can operate PBM strictly from the keyboard for all composing, sending, & receiving. Settings might be a different story but everyday stuff I can do mouselessly.
> Did you look at these settings in
> GMail? https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#settings/fwdandpop
Yes. Those were mentioned in the instructions you pointed me to.
> You may have to tweak them to support what you're trying to do with POP3.
Which settings on that page might I tweak? To the best of my ability, I did what it said in those instructions. I've got it set, for example, with "When messages are accessed with POP" to "keep Gmail's copy in the Inbox." But doing a retrieve from the PBM POP3 Preview causes them to no longer be listed in the Preview. Gmail still does indeed have them in its Inbox but PBM can henceforth not see them. It's like PBM gets one chance at them and that's it.
> Lastly, there is a lot of non-standard stuff going on w/GMail to the point
> where the JavaMail API library has specific classes to manage GMail. It's
> likely that it would require integrating these classes into PBM to obtain
> the level of support you're looking for within PBM.
Oh great. In other words, if you have time & motivation, perhaps some day we'll get improved Gmail service with PBM. OK. I appreciate the work you've put in on PBM. I appreciate it's kind of hobby for you & whoever else works on PBM. I'm not complaining. I just have to live with things as they are, I guess. It's certainly better than being forced to use their web interface for everything.
As for which E-mail address gets the E-mails from Groups, in the delivery that included your message I had a mix. Your message went to both fuse & gmail. I am subscribed to one other group. I got a handful of posts from that group at fuse & some others at gmail. None of them went to both addresses. It's so weird.
> When I use the "groups" interface, along the bottom there is a paper clip
> that allows attachments.
> I normally use the GMail web app which is much richer in functionality.
> Did you look at these settings in
> GMail? https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#settings/fwdandpop
> You may have to tweak them to support what you're trying to do with POP3.
> Lastly, there is a lot of non-standard stuff going on w/GMail to the point
> where the JavaMail API library has specific classes to manage GMail. It's
> likely that it would require integrating these classes into PBM to obtain
> the level of support you're looking for within PBM.
As for which E-mail address gets the E-mails from Groups, in the delivery that included your message I had a mix. Your message went to both fuse & gmail. I am subscribed to one other group. I got a handful of posts from that group at fuse & some others at gmail. None of them went to both addresses. It's so weird.
WildWilly
Dec 22, 2020, 3:59:40 PM12/22/20
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Oh. One other thing. Any ideas about IMAP4? It simply does not let me log on.
WildWilly
Dec 22, 2020, 5:42:41 PM12/22/20
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I finally remembered I hadn't tested sending from PBM with smtp.gmail.com. I tried with both an SMTP Outgoing Server defined in PBM and an Auth SMTP Outgoing Server. They both fail to connect. The PBM Java log just says:
Mail failure, Unable to connect
Bob
Dec 22, 2020, 6:00:42 PM12/22/20
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** Reply to message from WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> on Tue, 22 Dec 2020
12:57:44 -0800 (PST)
< snip>
> Which settings on that page might I tweak? To the best of my ability, I
> did what it said in those instructions. I've got it set, for example, with
> "When messages are accessed with POP" to "keep Gmail's copy in the Inbox."
> But doing a retrieve from the PBM POP3 Preview causes them to no longer be
> listed in the Preview. Gmail still does indeed have them in its Inbox but
> PBM can henceforth not see them. It's like PBM gets one chance at them and
> that's it.
As I recall that is the normal PolarBar operation so it does not retrieve the
same email multiple times.
PolarBar retrieves email by ID. When it has retrieved the email it no longer
shows the email in the list. Try changing the options at "Incoming Server" ->
"POP3" -> "Options". See "Retrieve new mail only" and "Mail server supports
the UIDL command". Change one and then check the results, some combination may
work the way you want it to work.
--
Robert Blair
12:57:44 -0800 (PST)
< snip>
> Which settings on that page might I tweak? To the best of my ability, I
> did what it said in those instructions. I've got it set, for example, with
> "When messages are accessed with POP" to "keep Gmail's copy in the Inbox."
> But doing a retrieve from the PBM POP3 Preview causes them to no longer be
> listed in the Preview. Gmail still does indeed have them in its Inbox but
> PBM can henceforth not see them. It's like PBM gets one chance at them and
> that's it.
same email multiple times.
PolarBar retrieves email by ID. When it has retrieved the email it no longer
shows the email in the list. Try changing the options at "Incoming Server" ->
"POP3" -> "Options". See "Retrieve new mail only" and "Mail server supports
the UIDL command". Change one and then check the results, some combination may
work the way you want it to work.
--
Robert Blair
Bob
Dec 22, 2020, 6:27:12 PM12/22/20
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** Reply to message from WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> on Tue, 22 Dec 2020
14:42:41 -0800 (PST)
Check if the gmail server requires SSL/TLS.
My email server requires that I have SSL/TLS set on to be able to sent emails.
PBM does not support SSL/TLS so I use Stunnel for those services.
--
Robert Blair
14:42:41 -0800 (PST)
My email server requires that I have SSL/TLS set on to be able to sent emails.
PBM does not support SSL/TLS so I use Stunnel for those services.
--
Robert Blair
WildWilly
Dec 22, 2020, 11:41:40 PM12/22/20
to Polarbar Mailer
Bob, I am most grateful for you effort to help me.
When I use PBM POP3 Preview on fuse (my ISP), I can retrieve any given message any number of times should I choose to do something that silly. If I do a retrieve from fuse & just refresh the PBM POP3 Preview window, the same messages are still listed. It isn't until I explicitly tell it to delete messages that they disappear from the Preview window. Gmail is different. I tried all 4 possible combinations of the 2 Incoming Server settings you suggested. Made no difference. PBM continues to get just one shot at retrieving from Gmail. Even though the messages are indeed still in my inbox when I use the Gmail web interface, it appears that Gmail refuses to let PBM see them after they've been downloaded. It never even gives the PBM Preview a chance to delete the messages. Gmail presents PBM POP3 Preview with an empty inbox after I retrieve whatever is there.
I reread the instructions & noticed some discussion of ports that I had missed earlier. Not exactly sure why. Anyway, I changed the port number in my PBM definition of the IMPA4 incoming server & in the definition of the Auth SMTP outgoing server for Gmail. On the IMAP4 thing, attempting to log onto that server filled up both my polarbar.log files, possibly more than once each, with errors. Essentially, it wouldn't log on. This is progress. It at least is attempting to communicate on the right port now, which it was not before. On the Auth SMTP thing, it simply fails to log onto the server, saying "Mail failure, Not authorized." Just one line in polarbar.log for that.
The instructions you pointed me to do say that TLS/SSL is required. I have a feeling that when I change ISPs (that's the motivation behind all this, I am planning on changing my ISP), I'm just going to end up abandoning PBM. With large tears in my eyes. But it looks like there's nothing for it but to do that. I'm planning on going to this Gmail account instead of whatever my new ISP offers so that I won't have to go through the headaches another time that I'm going to have this time telling the world my new E-mail address if I should change ISPs yet again further into the future.
Bob
Dec 23, 2020, 12:11:39 AM12/23/20
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** Reply to message from WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> on Tue, 22 Dec 2020
20:41:40 -0800 (PST)
> Bob, I am most grateful for you effort to help me.
>
> When I use PBM POP3 Preview on fuse (my ISP), I can retrieve any given
> message any number of times should I choose to do something that silly. If
> I do a retrieve from fuse & just refresh the PBM POP3 Preview window, the
> same messages are still listed. It isn't until I explicitly tell it to
> delete messages that they disappear from the Preview window. Gmail is
> different. I tried all 4 possible combinations of the 2 Incoming Server
> settings you suggested. Made no difference. PBM continues to get just one
> shot at retrieving from Gmail. Even though the messages are indeed still
> in my inbox when I use the Gmail web interface, it appears that Gmail
> refuses to let PBM see them after they've been downloaded. It never even
> gives the PBM Preview a chance to delete the messages. Gmail presents PBM
> POP3 Preview with an empty inbox after I retrieve whatever is there.
I had some problems trying PBM set up so I could access gmail which is why I
changed gmail to forward all of my email to one of my email addresses at a real
ISP.
> I reread the instructions & noticed some discussion of ports that I had
> missed earlier. Not exactly sure why. Anyway, I changed the port number
> in my PBM definition of the IMPA4 incoming server & in the definition of
> the Auth SMTP outgoing server for Gmail. On the IMAP4 thing, attempting to
> log onto that server filled up both my polarbar.log files, possibly more
> than once each, with errors. Essentially, it wouldn't log on. This is
> progress. It at least is attempting to communicate on the right port now,
> which it was not before. On the Auth SMTP thing, it simply fails to log
> onto the server, saying "Mail failure, Not authorized." Just one line in
> polarbar.log for that.
>
> The instructions you pointed me to do say that TLS/SSL is required. I have
> a feeling that when I change ISPs (that's the motivation behind all this, I
> am planning on changing my ISP), I'm just going to end up abandoning PBM.
> With large tears in my eyes. But it looks like there's nothing for it but
> to do that. I'm planning on going to this Gmail account instead of
> whatever my new ISP offers so that I won't have to go through the headaches
> another time that I'm going to have this time telling the world my new
> E-mail address if I should change ISPs yet again further into the future.
searching for a responsible ISP. I use pair.com to host my domain name, it is
about $100 a year. No problems when an ISP sells its network to another which
has happened four or five times over time, I only use them for internet access.
--
Robert Blair
WildWilly
Dec 23, 2020, 6:24:39 PM12/23/20
to Polarbar Mailer
I was perhaps a bit hasty in saying I'll have to abandon PBM. I truly do not want to do that. PBM POP3 Preview does access my Gmail inbox, even if it's not quite the way it ought to be. PBM IMAP4 Preview doesn't seem to work at all but that isn't really an issue. IMAP4 works properly on fuse & I never use it. I would expect to continue never using it on Gmail. The only thing not working is smtp.gmail.com for sending E-mails from PBM. I've done some further searching online for articles about using smtp.gmail.com for sending. As a result of what I've read, I've turned on 2-step verification on my Google account (which I may turn off if it ends up benig too annoying) & I've obtained an app password just for my smtp.gmail.com outbound server definition in PBM. I've fooled around with setting the port number to either 465 or 587 but neither works. Everything I read says I need both SSL & TLS security. There's checkboxes for those in the outbound server definitions in PBM but they are grayed out. I can't turn them on. You said something about how that doesn't work in PBM anyway so I think I'm stuck there. But if I get a new ISP, they'll have an SMTP server so I don't really need PBM to be able to send via smtp.gmail.com. So I should be able to stick with PBM after all. At least, I should expect to be able to configure PBM to use my new ISP's SMTP server. Let's hope it's not as finicky as smtp.gmail.com. So I'm actually feeling greatly relieved.
Bob
Dec 23, 2020, 6:58:27 PM12/23/20
to polarba...@googlegroups.com
** Reply to message from WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> on Wed, 23 Dec 2020
15:24:39 -0800 (PST)
SSL/TLS was never implemented in PolarBar. Most email servers are now
requiring SSL/TLS, I use 4 email servers and only 1 does not require SSL/TLS.
Since PolarBar does not do SSL/TLS I use Stunnel to give me that service.
Stunnel is not too difficult to set up, if you have questions ask here.
--
Robert Blair
15:24:39 -0800 (PST)
requiring SSL/TLS, I use 4 email servers and only 1 does not require SSL/TLS.
Since PolarBar does not do SSL/TLS I use Stunnel to give me that service.
Stunnel is not too difficult to set up, if you have questions ask here.
--
Robert Blair
WildWilly
Dec 23, 2020, 8:11:26 PM12/23/20
to Polarbar Mailer
Stunnel. I'll have to remember that. I am not particularly close to this ISP switch yet so it will be a while before I even need to think about. it. I appreciate your kind offer to help. No doubt I'll need it. As for SSL/TLS, the fuse outbound server doesn't appear to need it. It still works with PBM. Maybe I'll get lucky when I switch ISPs. And oh by the way, I also needed to put my special app password into my PBM inbound POP3 server definition for Gmail. It was a momentary surprise when the PBM POP3 Preview for Gmail that had been working for the past few days suddenly failed, but I easily corrected things right away. At least there was a meaningful error message in polarbar.log so I didn't have to hunt around for an explanation. The error message was in the response from Gmail & PBM just included it in the log entry. So they've got some things right.
Carl Miller
Dec 23, 2020, 10:42:16 PM12/23/20
to polarba...@googlegroups.com
PBM in fact does support SSL/TLS using the JavaMail driver. I use it to communicate to my own smtp server. Well, I don't have TLS selected, but SSL is checked.
Carl
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 8:11 PM WildWilly <wild...@fuse.net> wrote:
Stunnel. I'll have to remember that. I am not particularly close to this ISP switch yet so it will be a while before I even need to think about. it. I appreciate your kind offer to help. No doubt I'll need it. As for SSL/TLS, the fuse outbound server doesn't appear to need it. It still works with PBM. Maybe I'll get lucky when I switch ISPs. And oh by the way, I also needed to put my special app password into my PBM inbound POP3 server definition for Gmail. It was a momentary surprise when the PBM POP3 Preview for Gmail that had been working for the past few days suddenly failed, but I easily corrected things right away. At least there was a meaningful error message in polarbar.log so I didn't have to hunt around for an explanation. The error message was in the response from Gmail & PBM just included it in the log entry. So they've got some things right.
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Carl Miller
Dec 23, 2020, 10:51:39 PM12/23/20
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The thing you have to understand is GMail is non-conforming with any standard. It's the "google" standard. Worse than MS and their adoption of "standards". There are special things that have to happen at the lower layers to properly work with GMail as you expect it to work. The latest JavaMail API's have what's needed to manage all that, it's a matter of exposing that functionality within PBM itself. e.g., like many other email apps, PBM needs to have a "GMail" account type driver, which would only work with GMail.
I've been too busy with actual work to be messing w/PBM. The latest code is broken in a bad way (threading issues) and I've written a JUnit tester that exposes the problem, just need to get back to it and fix the issue that fails in the tester. I'll be more motivated to work on it once that issue (issues?) is/are resolved.
Carl
WildWilly
Dec 24, 2020, 2:18:43 AM12/24/20
to Polarbar Mailer
> ** Reply to message from Carl Miller <carlp...@gmail.com> on Wed, 23 Dec 2020 22:51:27 -0500
> The thing you have to understand is GMail is non-conforming with any
> standard. It's the "google" standard. Worse than MS and their adoption of
> "standards".
You are a brave person. You know MS is going to send someone to your door to box you severely in the left ear. And Google is going to send someone to your door to box you severely in the right ear. I hope you have a high threshold of pain.
> I've been too busy with actual work to be messing w/PBM.
I just hate it when real life interferes with my playing.
Now on to more frivolous topics . . .
I tried defining both a JavaMail POP3 incoming server & a JavaMail IMAP4 one in PBM. Neither one connected to Gmail. No big deal. I have a regular POP3 incoming server defined & it works fine with Gmail except for the odd one-and-done behavior I've already described. In case anybody is interested, my POP3 definition shows pop.gmail.com as the server, my Gmail account name as the userid, & my special Google app password for the password. Check boxes selected are Prompt before preview & Use SSL connection. The port is 995. On the Options page of PBM settings the only checkbox I've selected is the one for UIDL.
Speaking of the app password, the Google page that gives it to you actually advises you NOT to write it down or save it in a file. It's a good thing I've used a computer for longer than 10 minutes. That is such ridiculously bad advice, perhaps even dangerous. Of course I saved the password somewhere I could find it again if I needed it. I needed it. Several times during these experiments. Be warned.
On the sending side, I defined a JavaMail SMTP outbound server in PBM. My settings are server=smtp.gmail.com, userid & password as above for POP3. Checkboxes selected are Use SSL, Use TSL. The port=465. I gather that port 465 is for SSL & port 587 is for TLS. I don't know if I'm doing something weird, not useful, or what by selecting both security protocols. All I can say is the settings show port 465.
IT WORKS!
The first time I tried it, I nearly fell out of my chair when PBM said it had successfully sent the message. In a daze, I thought I should verify it in polarbar.log. I discovered that the logging for this server type is a bit deficient. It's not showing as much information as what I'm used to seeing with regular (not JavaMail) POP3 & SMTP servers. Might be something to look into when the time comes.
My test message was just a dummy that I sent to my fuse address. When I retrieved it, I noticed a couple of rather odd things. The Return-Path header shows my gmail address as does the From header. The original specified my fuse address in From. This just means that I need to make sure I don't use smtp.gmail.com to send any E-mail until I actually switch to that as my only E-mail address.
Another thing in passing. In all of this, I've been very careful to make sure I use PBM Preview & Settings in a mutually exclusive manner. Despite this, I keep seeing error messages in polarbar.log that say either I shouldn't open Settings when a Preview is open or I shouldn't attempt a Preview when Settings are open. Ir's nice that the checking is there but I think it's a bit overzealous. It looks like it logs the error message even when the error hasn't occurred. Something else to look into when the time comes.
Bottom line: I'm happy with how it works. As far as I'm concerned, it works well enough & I won't be trying to change anything further. Thank you both for all your help. Happy Holidays!
> The thing you have to understand is GMail is non-conforming with any
> standard. It's the "google" standard. Worse than MS and their adoption of
> "standards".
> I've been too busy with actual work to be messing w/PBM.
Now on to more frivolous topics . . .
I tried defining both a JavaMail POP3 incoming server & a JavaMail IMAP4 one in PBM. Neither one connected to Gmail. No big deal. I have a regular POP3 incoming server defined & it works fine with Gmail except for the odd one-and-done behavior I've already described. In case anybody is interested, my POP3 definition shows pop.gmail.com as the server, my Gmail account name as the userid, & my special Google app password for the password. Check boxes selected are Prompt before preview & Use SSL connection. The port is 995. On the Options page of PBM settings the only checkbox I've selected is the one for UIDL.
Speaking of the app password, the Google page that gives it to you actually advises you NOT to write it down or save it in a file. It's a good thing I've used a computer for longer than 10 minutes. That is such ridiculously bad advice, perhaps even dangerous. Of course I saved the password somewhere I could find it again if I needed it. I needed it. Several times during these experiments. Be warned.
On the sending side, I defined a JavaMail SMTP outbound server in PBM. My settings are server=smtp.gmail.com, userid & password as above for POP3. Checkboxes selected are Use SSL, Use TSL. The port=465. I gather that port 465 is for SSL & port 587 is for TLS. I don't know if I'm doing something weird, not useful, or what by selecting both security protocols. All I can say is the settings show port 465.
IT WORKS!
The first time I tried it, I nearly fell out of my chair when PBM said it had successfully sent the message. In a daze, I thought I should verify it in polarbar.log. I discovered that the logging for this server type is a bit deficient. It's not showing as much information as what I'm used to seeing with regular (not JavaMail) POP3 & SMTP servers. Might be something to look into when the time comes.
My test message was just a dummy that I sent to my fuse address. When I retrieved it, I noticed a couple of rather odd things. The Return-Path header shows my gmail address as does the From header. The original specified my fuse address in From. This just means that I need to make sure I don't use smtp.gmail.com to send any E-mail until I actually switch to that as my only E-mail address.
Another thing in passing. In all of this, I've been very careful to make sure I use PBM Preview & Settings in a mutually exclusive manner. Despite this, I keep seeing error messages in polarbar.log that say either I shouldn't open Settings when a Preview is open or I shouldn't attempt a Preview when Settings are open. Ir's nice that the checking is there but I think it's a bit overzealous. It looks like it logs the error message even when the error hasn't occurred. Something else to look into when the time comes.
Bottom line: I'm happy with how it works. As far as I'm concerned, it works well enough & I won't be trying to change anything further. Thank you both for all your help. Happy Holidays!
WildWilly
Dec 24, 2020, 2:46:46 AM12/24/20
to Polarbar Mailer
Late update. I decided 2-step verification was indeed far too annoying. Even after I checked the box that said don't do 2-step verification again on this device, it did it again anyway. So I turned it off. Suddenly my lovely PBM server definitions for Gmail failed. No problem. Switch the password in both server definitions back to my regular Google password, which is of course shared by Gmail, Groups, YouTube, & anything else on Google. I haven't thrown away my special app password. I don't know when or if I'll ever need it for some unforeseen reason but I'm keeping it. So if it's so annoying, why did I turn on 2-step verification in the first place? I read something during my search for more information that said to do it. Thinking back now, that the particular thing I read might have been special instructions valid only at a particular company. Whatever. Live & learn.
Carl Miller
Dec 24, 2020, 8:32:56 AM12/24/20
to polarba...@googlegroups.com
It very well may be that Google is forcing your GMail address into the headers. Not certain as that's just a guess.
You can get way more debug info in the logs than you'd ever want to see with the JavaMail driver by checking the "Debug Mode" checkbox in the settings for a JavaMail driver. This is required as the underlying code isn't PBM per se, it's from the JavaMail API library (now known as Jakarta Mail) and it requires this flag to produce verbose output in the log.
Carl
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WildWilly
Feb 14, 2021, 6:26:23 PM2/14/21
to Polarbar Mailer
I tried defining a JavaMail IMAP4 incoming server in PBM for GMail today. I must have done something wrong the other time I tried it. It didn't work that time, as I reported in a post upthread. Today it works, after a fashion. My settings in PBM are:
Mail Server imap.gmail.com
Userid my ID
Password my password
Prompt before preview checked
Use SSL Connection checked
Ignore SSL Cert errors checked
Use TLS checked
Use OAUTH checked
Disable not checked (duh)
Debug Mode not checked (although I would certainly check it if anybody wanted to see what this gives in Polarbar.log)
Refresh interval 1
Maximum size 0
Connection timeout 60
Attempts 1
Port 993
This connects. I must have made some sort of mistake in these PBM settings the earlier time I tried this but this works today.
I did say "after a fashion." When I have the PBM Preview refresh the display, it shows messages in my GMail Inbox. When I retrieve messages then do not delete them via PBM, then simply refresh the display, the messages remain displayed. This is not what I've been getting using POP3 to look at my GMail Inbox. With that, once I download a message, PBM POP3 Preview no longer displays the messages I have downloaded. But with JavaMail IMAP4 Preview, the messages continue to be displayed. This PBM Preview now allows me to delete messages out of my GMail Inbox.
But the only folder displayed in this PBM Preview window is Inbox. My experience with IMAP4 on other servers is that it displays a whole folder tree on the left. GMail has a bunch of folders, like Sent, Outbox, Spam, Drafts, Trash, and more. The PBM JavaMail IMAP4 Preview shows ONLY Inbox. Well, this is better than what I was getting, but I don't think it's complete. It's correct, just not complete.
So I'm happier now. What I am finding, though, is that when I send E-mails from PBM through the GMail AuthSMTP server, the messages land in the GMail Sent folder. I would have expected that if I had composed & sent the message using the GMail web interface, not when I send using PBM. But that's what happens. I don't think this is at all a PBM issue. This appears to be simply the way GMail works. I also find that E-mails sent to me do not always go to the GMail Inbox. Sometimes they go in GMail's Important folder instead. I emphasize, they are in Important and NOT Inbox. I also find there's messages in a GMail folder called All Mail. So a proper folder tree from the PBM JavaMail IMAP4 Preview would be really nice to have.
WildWilly
Feb 15, 2021, 4:58:51 AM2/15/21
to Polarbar Mailer
I've been doing some Googling & I've found some things that look like they may be of interest to the PBM developers.
https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/imap-extensions
This page was only barely within my ability to understand, and I may be flattering myself that I did understand any of it. I think it is precisely describing the ways in which GMail is peculiar. They quote some RFCs at the bottom of the page. These RFCs are housed at tools.ietf.org. This appears to be some sort of international standards organization but I don't know if it's actually part of ISO. I've never been that far inside programming an E-mail client. "That far?" I haven't been any distance at all inside such a thing. But I believe at least one person reading this has. I believe this web page & these RFCs could be used to make PBM play very nice with GMail. Specifically, this appears to be instructions for coding IMAP4 clients to display the GMail folder tree. Meaning, the PBM JavaMail IMAP4 Preview. And, of course, for programming said client to manipulate messages in the tree, like copying/moving messages from one folder to another, and so on. I know I, for one, would appreciate such improvements in PBM. I stand ready to test any changes you make in this area of PBM.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/livemail-files/configure-gmail-imap-folders/024b948a-5991-4a70-bc79-973eb6040da8
This page prompted me to adjust a couple of my IMAP settings within the GMail "Forwarding and POP/IMAP" settings. Specifically, I changed these:
Under "When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted," I changed Auto-expunge from on to off.
Under "When a message is marked as deleted etc." I changed the setting from the default to Move to Trash.
I'll give it a couple of days to see what impact, if any, these settings changes have.
https://developers.google.com/gmail/imap/imap-extensions
This page was only barely within my ability to understand, and I may be flattering myself that I did understand any of it. I think it is precisely describing the ways in which GMail is peculiar. They quote some RFCs at the bottom of the page. These RFCs are housed at tools.ietf.org. This appears to be some sort of international standards organization but I don't know if it's actually part of ISO. I've never been that far inside programming an E-mail client. "That far?" I haven't been any distance at all inside such a thing. But I believe at least one person reading this has. I believe this web page & these RFCs could be used to make PBM play very nice with GMail. Specifically, this appears to be instructions for coding IMAP4 clients to display the GMail folder tree. Meaning, the PBM JavaMail IMAP4 Preview. And, of course, for programming said client to manipulate messages in the tree, like copying/moving messages from one folder to another, and so on. I know I, for one, would appreciate such improvements in PBM. I stand ready to test any changes you make in this area of PBM.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/livemail-files/configure-gmail-imap-folders/024b948a-5991-4a70-bc79-973eb6040da8
This page prompted me to adjust a couple of my IMAP settings within the GMail "Forwarding and POP/IMAP" settings. Specifically, I changed these:
Under "When I mark a message in IMAP as deleted," I changed Auto-expunge from on to off.
Under "When a message is marked as deleted etc." I changed the setting from the default to Move to Trash.
I'll give it a couple of days to see what impact, if any, these settings changes have.
WildWilly
Feb 16, 2021, 1:08:27 PM2/16/21
to Polarbar Mailer
Things are working as well as can be expected given the diminished state of PBM's understanding of GMail's idiosyncrasies. Messages stay in Inbox until I delete them explicitly in PBM's JavaMail IMAP4 Preview. But I've also learned a bit about how GMail works. When you use their interface, either on the web or on an Android phone, when you delete a message from Inbox, it is synchronously deleted from their quirky folder called All Mail. But All Mail is one of the folders that is NOT displayed in our Preview. I should quote the whole label on the line I shortened with etc. in my preceding post:
When a message is marked as deleted and expunged from the last visible IMAP folder:
Well, there's the problem. The All Mail folder isn't visible in the PBM Preview. So deletions from Inbox aren't being synchronously reflected in All Mail. GMail apparently is aware that the PBM Preview isn't displaying All Mail, and presumably all the other folders that are visible in the proprietary GMail interfaces. Apparently, there are a few other non-Google E-mail clients out there. One is, of course, from Microsoft. I think there might be several from Microsoft. But there's a few others whose names I didn't recognize so I don't remember them. But if you're Googling around on this subject, you'll stumble upon them easily enough. I did.
So I await the next flurry of development activity on PBM with great anticipation. At least I won't have to clear that flurry off my car no matter what time of year it occurs.
Bill Wild Willy Kredentser
Feb 16, 2021, 2:12:42 PM2/16/21
to PolarBar Mailer Google Group
Forgot one thing. Although I am now able to use the PBM Preview to delete messages from the GMail
Inbox, it's a bit quirky. Here's the steps I have to go through:
Refresh the Inbox in PBM Preview. Assume there's new messages.
Retrieve them into the PBM Inbox.
Request deletion of those messages in PBM Preview.
Doesn't delete them.
Refresh the Inbox in PBM Preview. Shows the same messages again.
Request deletion of them once again in PBM Preview.
This time it works.
I don't know if this is a restriction of GMail or just a quirk of the way PBM works now. If it's
the former, I guess there's nothing you can do about it. If it's the latter, you'll surely figure
out how to do it correctly once you come back to working on PBM.
WW
GO HABS GO!
Configuration: Windows 7 64-bit, AdoptOpenJDK build 11.0.7+10 (2020/4/14), PBM 1.27 dev CI-799 build 2329
Inbox, it's a bit quirky. Here's the steps I have to go through:
Refresh the Inbox in PBM Preview. Assume there's new messages.
Retrieve them into the PBM Inbox.
Request deletion of those messages in PBM Preview.
Doesn't delete them.
Refresh the Inbox in PBM Preview. Shows the same messages again.
Request deletion of them once again in PBM Preview.
This time it works.
I don't know if this is a restriction of GMail or just a quirk of the way PBM works now. If it's
the former, I guess there's nothing you can do about it. If it's the latter, you'll surely figure
out how to do it correctly once you come back to working on PBM.
WW
GO HABS GO!
Configuration: Windows 7 64-bit, AdoptOpenJDK build 11.0.7+10 (2020/4/14), PBM 1.27 dev CI-799 build 2329
Bill Wild Willy Kredentser
Feb 18, 2021, 7:33:37 AM2/18/21
to PolarBar Mailer Google Group
Following up on a couple of things I said above . . .
Via Googling I found some advice on how to essentially disable GMail's rather annoying habit of
marking nearly every incoming message for inclusion in the Important folder. The solution is a
simple filter. I tried it & it works. Even though there is a setting in GMail that looks like it
ought to stop it from marking things as Important, that turns out to be either a setting that
doesn't work correctly or a setting that doesn't work at all. The filter is what stopped
everything from going into Important.
As for my E-mails sent via PBM landing in the GMail Sent folder, my experience with the Important
deal above inspired me to create my own filter from scratch. I had my doubts whether I had done it
right but after a few days I can say it works fine. My GMail Sent folder has been empty since I
instated my filter. My messages sent from PBM are now cluttering up my GMail Trash folder.
Altogether now: So what?
Via Googling I found some advice on how to essentially disable GMail's rather annoying habit of
marking nearly every incoming message for inclusion in the Important folder. The solution is a
simple filter. I tried it & it works. Even though there is a setting in GMail that looks like it
ought to stop it from marking things as Important, that turns out to be either a setting that
doesn't work correctly or a setting that doesn't work at all. The filter is what stopped
everything from going into Important.
As for my E-mails sent via PBM landing in the GMail Sent folder, my experience with the Important
deal above inspired me to create my own filter from scratch. I had my doubts whether I had done it
right but after a few days I can say it works fine. My GMail Sent folder has been empty since I
instated my filter. My messages sent from PBM are now cluttering up my GMail Trash folder.
Altogether now: So what?
WildWilly
Jun 2, 2022, 11:59:43 AM6/2/22
to Polarbar Mailer
Back around the end of April, I got an E-mail from Google with this ominous Subject:
You may lose access to some of your third-party apps
The body of the message started with this:
On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in technology
A pox on Google & the horse they rode in on! A monkeypox. Well, May 30 passed & it
was like nothing happened. It took until June 2 before they tightened the screws. But I
have managed to navigate their stupid labyrinth & PBM still works with their new regime.
They completely de-implemented the old Less Secure Apps option. Gone. Poof. No longer
available. They insisted that I re-enable 2-step verification. What a pain in the ass.
Now I have to check my phone any time I log into Google Groups on my computer. My
computer now depends on my phone. They are 2 independent devices. They shouldn't rely
on each other in any way. But it is once again my error to be applying logic to a
situation. And what do people who don't have a cell phone do? I've had a cell phone for
barely a year so I am keenly aware that this is a serious question. I'm not so decrepit
that I have forgotten what it was like to live without a phone in my pocket. In any
case, once I turned on 2-step verification, I was then able to access the section of my
Google account settings where I could generate an app password for mail on my PC. Of
course, I took their advice & didn't save their app password anywhere. Yeah right, I
fell off the turnip truck yesterday. So I pasted this app password into both my PBM
Incoming JavaMail IMAP4 server definition & my PBM Outgoing JavaMail SMTP server
definition, replacing my regular Google password, which is still my Google account
password in all other contexts. Poof. Magic. PBM continues to work. At least I don't
get a text message on my phone every time I refresh the PBM Preview or send an E-mail.
No, that happens now only if I log on here to Groups. I suppose some people would say
this is simply the inexorable march of progress. I say it's the inexorable trend of
disregard for user convenience. At least I am able to continue to use PBM. Thank
goodness for small miracles.
You may lose access to some of your third-party apps
The body of the message started with this:
On May 30, you may lose access to apps that are using less secure sign-in technology
A pox on Google & the horse they rode in on! A monkeypox. Well, May 30 passed & it
was like nothing happened. It took until June 2 before they tightened the screws. But I
have managed to navigate their stupid labyrinth & PBM still works with their new regime.
They completely de-implemented the old Less Secure Apps option. Gone. Poof. No longer
available. They insisted that I re-enable 2-step verification. What a pain in the ass.
Now I have to check my phone any time I log into Google Groups on my computer. My
computer now depends on my phone. They are 2 independent devices. They shouldn't rely
on each other in any way. But it is once again my error to be applying logic to a
situation. And what do people who don't have a cell phone do? I've had a cell phone for
barely a year so I am keenly aware that this is a serious question. I'm not so decrepit
that I have forgotten what it was like to live without a phone in my pocket. In any
case, once I turned on 2-step verification, I was then able to access the section of my
Google account settings where I could generate an app password for mail on my PC. Of
course, I took their advice & didn't save their app password anywhere. Yeah right, I
fell off the turnip truck yesterday. So I pasted this app password into both my PBM
Incoming JavaMail IMAP4 server definition & my PBM Outgoing JavaMail SMTP server
definition, replacing my regular Google password, which is still my Google account
password in all other contexts. Poof. Magic. PBM continues to work. At least I don't
get a text message on my phone every time I refresh the PBM Preview or send an E-mail.
No, that happens now only if I log on here to Groups. I suppose some people would say
this is simply the inexorable march of progress. I say it's the inexorable trend of
disregard for user convenience. At least I am able to continue to use PBM. Thank
goodness for small miracles.
Carl Miller
Jun 2, 2022, 9:48:22 PM6/2/22
to polarba...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for posting your solution Bill.
Carl
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WildWilly
Jun 7, 2022, 6:15:13 AM6/7/22
to Polarbar Mailer
It turns out I was wrong about one thing. On the day I turned on 2-Step Verification, it sent me a text message on my cell phone with a secret code that I then had to enter here in Google Groups on my PC. But that's the last time I've had to do that. I think doing that once got them to recognize my PC as a trusted device so I don't have to go through the annoying text message rigamarole every time I log in here. I've got a pretty strong password & I haven't yet had my identity stolen. I know that's always a danger but so far, so good. So 2-Step Verification has been less of an inconvenience than I feared it would be. I suppose if I reboot at some point, there's a decent chance, not guaranteed but possible, that I'll lose my DHCP-assigned IP address & they might do the text message thing again. But I expect it will once again be a one-time thing . . . until I reboot yet again. I generally reboot only when I get a certain type of software update, like to my video drivers or the engine (not the signatures) of my antivirus. Otherwise, I don't reboot for weeks at a time. So, it's working, & I'm happy.
chocola...@gmail.com
Jun 8, 2022, 8:09:49 AM6/8/22
to Polarbar Mailer
That's an interesting discovery. I shall be interested to hear how it turns out.
chocola...@gmail.com
Jun 9, 2022, 6:18:12 AM6/9/22
to Polarbar Mailer
WW, I assume you followed these instructions (which are, I must agree, are not easy to find):
Create & use App Passwords
If you use 2-Step-Verification and get a "password incorrect" error when you sign in, you can try to use an App Password.
- Go to your Google Account.
- Select Security.
- Under "Signing in to Google," select App Passwords. You may need to sign in. If you don’t have this option, it might be because:
- 2-Step Verification is not set up for your account.
- 2-Step Verification is only set up for security keys.
- Your account is through work, school, or other organization.
- You turned on Advanced Protection.
- At the bottom, choose Select app and choose the app you using and then Select device and choose the device you’re using and then Generate.
- Follow the instructions to enter the App Password. The App Password is the 16-character code in the yellow bar on your device.
- Tap Done.
Graham.
On Tuesday, 7 June 2022 at 11:15:13 UTC+1 WildWilly wrote:
Bill Wild Willy Kredentser
Jun 9, 2022, 6:57:44 AM6/9/22
to PolarBar Mailer Google Group
Yes, of course. Those are the instructions they pointed me to in their E-mail at the end
of April that I mentioned above. The instructions weren't hard to find. The link was in
the E-mail I received. In step 4, I selected my PC. Since I was logged into Google at
the time, a necessary prerequisite to being in my account settings, they automatically
recognized my PC as a connected device. They also listed my cell phone because, of
course, I have the GMail app running on my cell phone. But I do that only because PBM
does not yet fully support the IMAP4 view of the GMail folders. I used to use IMAP4 on
my work E-mail server back when I used to work. That worked famously. But then, my work
E-mail server implemented STANDARD IMAP4. GMail has cooked their own non-standard
protocols & documented them. Like documenting them somehow justifies their violation of
the standards. Anything goes as long as you document it. In any case, standard IMAP4 is
well supported by PBM. GMail IMAP4 is not completely supported by PBM. That's why I
need to run GMail on my cell phone. It's a cell phone app Google supplies & it can see
all the folders & do things like delete messages, which PBM looks like it does but in
fact it does not.
Back to the topic. In step 4 I selected my PC & the app I selected from their list was
E-mail. That's it. Simply E-mail. It didn't name a specific application, like Outlook
or Thunderbird or PostRoad Mailer (showing my age). It just said E-mail. That's all it
took. After getting the 2-step verification just the one time, like I described above,
it has worked the same as ever.
of April that I mentioned above. The instructions weren't hard to find. The link was in
the E-mail I received. In step 4, I selected my PC. Since I was logged into Google at
the time, a necessary prerequisite to being in my account settings, they automatically
recognized my PC as a connected device. They also listed my cell phone because, of
course, I have the GMail app running on my cell phone. But I do that only because PBM
does not yet fully support the IMAP4 view of the GMail folders. I used to use IMAP4 on
my work E-mail server back when I used to work. That worked famously. But then, my work
E-mail server implemented STANDARD IMAP4. GMail has cooked their own non-standard
protocols & documented them. Like documenting them somehow justifies their violation of
the standards. Anything goes as long as you document it. In any case, standard IMAP4 is
well supported by PBM. GMail IMAP4 is not completely supported by PBM. That's why I
need to run GMail on my cell phone. It's a cell phone app Google supplies & it can see
all the folders & do things like delete messages, which PBM looks like it does but in
fact it does not.
Back to the topic. In step 4 I selected my PC & the app I selected from their list was
E-mail. That's it. Simply E-mail. It didn't name a specific application, like Outlook
or Thunderbird or PostRoad Mailer (showing my age). It just said E-mail. That's all it
took. After getting the 2-step verification just the one time, like I described above,
it has worked the same as ever.
chocola...@gmail.com
Jun 9, 2022, 8:30:58 AM6/9/22
to Polarbar Mailer
Thanks, I was curious if it knew of Polarbar.
As for IMAP4 in Polarbar, are you using the IMAP4 or JavaMail IMAP4 server type? I don't use either, but the latter is more likely to provide current support, especially if you were to replace the JavaMail jar with the most current one, which is here. You'd need to rename it, and since Polarbar wasn't compiled with it, it might not work, so save the old one first. Even if the new one does provide better support, Polarbar may well not take advantage of it.
chocola...@gmail.com
Jun 9, 2022, 8:34:01 AM6/9/22
to Polarbar Mailer
Actually, this version is more likely to work. Version 2 will require some of Polarbar to be recompiled.
Bill Wild Willy Kredentser
Jun 9, 2022, 3:09:08 PM6/9/22
to PolarBar Mailer Google Group
I'm using a JavaMail IMAP4 incoming server definition, something I have been using since
2021/2/14, as you can read upthread. I got that advice from Carl Miller, as you can also
see upthread. (You can see up there that I am using a JavaMail SMTP outgoing server
definition as well, although you didn't ask about that.) As for replacing JavaMail, I
think I'll wait until there's a new PBM released. I've also scrounged around looking at
new releases of Java. It seems we're up to release 18 now. But I'm sticking with the
Java 11 that I have now, which is not even the latest one of that. You can see what I
have by looking at my signature. For some reason, Google hides my SIG. You have to
click the ... at the bottom of my posts to reveal it. I have discovered that my old link
to OpenJDK is now dead. That link tells you to go to a new site, Adoptium. There appear
to be lots of newer releases. They've got 11, not 12-15, 16, 17, & 18. There's also
newer JavaFX releases on Gluon. At least that's still on Gluon. But until I read here
from somebody like Carl that some new thing in PBM requires some new thing in a newer Java
or newer JavaFX, I'm not upgrading. What I have all works well enough & I'm not messing
with it.
2021/2/14, as you can read upthread. I got that advice from Carl Miller, as you can also
see upthread. (You can see up there that I am using a JavaMail SMTP outgoing server
definition as well, although you didn't ask about that.) As for replacing JavaMail, I
think I'll wait until there's a new PBM released. I've also scrounged around looking at
new releases of Java. It seems we're up to release 18 now. But I'm sticking with the
Java 11 that I have now, which is not even the latest one of that. You can see what I
have by looking at my signature. For some reason, Google hides my SIG. You have to
click the ... at the bottom of my posts to reveal it. I have discovered that my old link
to OpenJDK is now dead. That link tells you to go to a new site, Adoptium. There appear
to be lots of newer releases. They've got 11, not 12-15, 16, 17, & 18. There's also
newer JavaFX releases on Gluon. At least that's still on Gluon. But until I read here
from somebody like Carl that some new thing in PBM requires some new thing in a newer Java
or newer JavaFX, I'm not upgrading. What I have all works well enough & I'm not messing
with it.
chocola...@gmail.com
Jun 9, 2022, 4:49:26 PM6/9/22
to Polarbar Mailer
By all means stay on old releases, but remember that newer releases fix exploitable security issues. JRE downloads will take you to the Java versions I use to build and run Polarbar. For preference, stick to LTS releases, and unless you need the JDK, JRE FX .msi installs. The versions which are not there are no longer supported, which would also be the case for Adoptium. Since you are using Java 11, you can expect your current Polarbar to continue to work with Java 17.
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