Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics

[Ross Bender]

My article Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics: Studies and Translations in the 50th anniversary issue of Shishu  史聚 is available at:

https://www.academia.edu/32430241/Trends_in_Western_Research_on_Ancient_Japanese_Classics_Studies_and_Translations

"Western audiences have become familiar with the great gems of classical and medieval Japanese literature.  Four translations into English have been made of Genji Monogatari and at least three of Heike Monogatari and renditions of these classics exist in almost all European languages. By contrast the ancient Japanese classics have been neglected. Only recently has there been a new blossoming of studies and translations of Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, Man’yōshū, and Shoku Nihongi."

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/research

[Jos Vos]

Could anyone tell me if there is now a proper Spanish translation of Genji monogatari? Last time I visited Spain, all I could find was Spanish versions of Arthur Waley and Royall Tyler. I also believe the Poles are still waiting for 'their' Genji...

Jos Vos

---

From: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ross Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com>
Sent: 14 April 2017 23:55
To: pmjs
Subject: [PMJS] Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics

 

My article Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics: Studies and Translations in the 50th anniversary issue of Shishu  史聚 is available at:

https://www.academia.edu/32430241/Trends_in_Western_Research_on_Ancient_Japanese_Classics_Studies_and_Translations

Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics: Studies and Translations

www.academia.edu

Western audiences have become familiar with the great gems of classical and medieval Japanese literature. Four translations into English have been made of Genji Monogatari and at least three of Heike Monogatari and renditions of these classics exist

"Western audiences have become familiar with the great gems of classical and medieval Japanese literature.  Four translations into English have been made of Genji Monogatari and at least three of Heike Monogatari and renditions of these classics exist in almost all European languages. By contrast the ancient Japanese classics have been neglected. Only recently has there been a new blossoming of studies and translations of Kojiki, Nihon Shoki, Man’yōshū, and Shoku Nihongi."

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/research

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[guel...@waseda.jp]

Dear Jos,

there is a translation by Ariel Stilerman (Columbia University), who
presented the first chapter (Kiritsubo), read by the actress Ana
Recalde, at an evening performance in the Faculty of Letters at Waseda
(July 23th, 2013). My Spanish is not so good, but it sounded fine.

I haven't heard if he completed the whole translation, which could be
possible.

Niels

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:32:25 +0000
Jos Vos <josm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Could anyone tell me if there is now a proper Spanish translation of
>Genji monogatari? Last time I visited Spain, all I could find was
>Spanish versions of Arthur Waley and Royall Tyler. I also believe the
>Poles are still waiting for 'their' Genji...
>
>
> Jos Vos
>
> ________________________________
>From: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ross
>Bender <rosslyn...@gmail.com>
> Sent: 14 April 2017 23:55
> To: pmjs
> Subject: [PMJS] Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese
>Classics
>
> My article Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics:
>Studies and Translations in the 50th anniversary issue of Shishu 史聚
>is available at:
>
> https://www.academia.edu/32430241/Trends_in_Western_Research_on_Ancient_Japanese_Classics_Studies_and_Translations

> [http://a.academia-assets.com/images/open-graph-icons/fb-paper.gif]<https://www.academia.edu/32430241/Trends_in_Western_Research_on_Ancient_Japanese_Classics_Studies_and_Translations>

>
> Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics: Studies and

>Translations<https://www.academia.edu/32430241/Trends_in_Western_Research_on_Ancient_Japanese_Classics_Studies_and_Translations>

[Charles De Wolf]

Dear Jos,

I happened to be at the performance in 2013 and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Ariel Stilerman is most impressive!

Your Dutch translation of Genji is always in the vicinity of my study desk--and always appreciated...

The more the merrier!

Charles De Wolf

---

From: "guel...@waseda.jp" <guel...@waseda.jp>
To: pm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [PMJS] Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics

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[Ariel Gustavo Stilerman]

Dear Jos,

My translation is still not finished. Since I did that public reading with an actress at Waseda, which George kindly attended, I decided to put the project on the back burner and work on other, smaller translation projects so that it didn't take much time from my research in English (I come up for tenure in three years).

For example, I translated the renga sequence Minase sangin hyakuin. It came out last year with a critical introduction in Madrid and Mexico from Editorial Sexto Piso
http://sextopiso.es/?product=poema-a-tres-voces-de-minase-renga

Yours,

Ariel

————————

Dr. Ariel Stilerman

Assistant Professor of Japanese
Department of Modern Languages and Linguistics

Florida State University 

625 University Way 
PO Box 3061540 
Tallahassee, Florida 32306-1540

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[Alexander Vovin]

Dear all,

Just a very humble suggestion: may be someone should rename this conversation? Interesting as it is,it has nothing to do with Ross Bender original posting.

All the best 

--

Alexander Vovin
Membre d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie du Nord-Est

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com

[Jos Vos]

Dear professor Vovin,

I hope you do not have the impression I derailed the conversation. Ross Bender's claim that there are now renditions of Genji monogatari and Heike monogatari 'in almost all European languages' simply got me wondering... By number of speakers worldwide, Spanish is the No.1 European language, and by most international standards Polish is pretty important. I can only hope Dr. Stilerman will get a second wind, and I definitely look forward to checking out his translation of Minase sangin hyakuin. In the meantime I'm sure we'd all like to find out as much as possible about Western research on 'ancient Japanese classics' as well.

Best wishes,

Jos

---

From: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Alexander Vovin <sasha...@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 April 2017 18:50
To: pm...@googlegroups.com

[Alexander Vovin]

Dear Jos (if I may),

Nope, please rest assured,　I do not have this impression. We all often commit the same "sin" of straying away from the original topic in our private exchanges, but I felt that keeping it this way on the official discussion list might possibly do double harm to both studies of Nara and to studies of Heian for quite obvious reasons, but if they are not so obvious to you any one else on the list, I can elaborate. And by the way, no estabo contra el español, or any other language for Japanese Classics to be translated in.

All the best wishes,

Sasha

Alexander Vovin
Membre d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie du Nord-Est

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com

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ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

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[Beatrice Bodart-Bailey]

Dear colleagues,

I received a request for assistance with research and translation from Lindsay Hill <lh...@sbc.edu> a visiting assistant professor of creative writing at Sweet Briar College in the USA, conducting research for a book of poems centering on the life of the Zen Buddhist poet and nun Ryonen Genso (1646-1711). I am wondering if anybody knows an advanced student who would be interested in some アルバイト to help her. She writes:

"My dates are June 14-25, and I'm hoping to find an interpreter (or interpreters) to help me in Kyoto for the 15th and 16th of June (and possibly the 14th as well, depending on costs) and in Tokyo on the 21st and 23rd. On these days, I'm mostly looking for someone who can help me speak with people inside the temples I'll be visiting, and perhaps to translate written material inside (I'm not expecting to work with any primary source material, but I'm also not sure what to expect!). 

I'm also hoping I can find someone who can make a few phone calls to some of these temples ahead of time. In some cases, this would simply involve asking basic questions about hours and admission. But a couple of the temples either seem to be or definitely are closed to the public, and in those cases, I'm hoping that an interpreter could ask if I might be able to gain entrance for research purposes.

And finally, my request for an interpreter was unfortunately the one part of my grant that went unfunded, so I'm attempting to put some of my own money towards this. As a result, I'm trying to keep the cost under $1,000. I can be somewhat flexible about this (either paying a little more or going without an interpreter for a day or two), but that's my goal."

If you know anybody who is interested to help, please ask them to write directly to Lindsay Hill <lh...@sbc.edu> and not to the group.

Best,

Beatrice.

Dr. Beatrice M. Bodart-Bailey

Professor emeritus Otsuma Women’s University, Tokyo

Visiting Professor, College of Asia and the Pacific, ANU

P.O.Box 123

Narrabundah

ACT 2604

Australia.

 

---

 

[Ross Bender]

"Indeed, Waley's influence extended  beyond the English- and Japanese-language contexts: his translation formed the basis for French, German, Swedish, Dutch, Hungarian, Italian and Spanish versions of the tale."

--Michael Emmerich, The Tale of Genji: Translation, Canonization, and World Literature (Columbia, 2013).

I don't pretend to know whether say, Hungarian translations of Genji based on Waley are any better or worse than Hungarian translations NOT based on Waley, although how such a thing could be possible goodness only knows.

Back in the day, in my first class with Ivan Morris at Columbia on ancient Japanese history, I conspicuously toted Waley's Genji  to class every day, and I must say [ was impressed. Later, in Herschel Webb's seminar on Japanese bibliography, we learned that Waley (and Morris) were not precise guides to Heian history. But I must say, if it hadn't been for Morris' The World of the Shining Prince, I personally would never have wandered into the wonders of Japanese literature and history.

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/

[Mervart, David]

Incidentally, it is not Polish but right next door, both geographically and linguistically: there is a complete translation of Genji (as “Příběh prince Gendžiho” ) in Czech, by Prof. Karel Fiala. The four volumes appeared between 2002 and 2008 and it is a direct translation from the critical editions of the Japanese original, not a retranslation through another language. It seems to me quite free of any Waley-effect in that it happily sacrifices elegance and natural flow of the language to the faithfulness to the original. An admirable achievement, in any case.

Nearly simultaneously appeared a rare complete Czech translation of Man’yōshū, by Prof. Antonín Líman (“Manjóšů: deset tisíc listů ze starého Japonska”, also in four volumes, 2001–2008). 

The former translator, Karel Fiala, is also responsible for the first full direct translation of Kojiki (“Kodžiki”, 2012). 

The first ever direct Spanish translation of Kojiki had already come out in 2008 (by Rumi Tani Moratalla and Carlos Rubio).

Best regards,

David

––

David Mervart, PhD

Profesor Visitante

Centro de Estudios de Asia Oriental

Universidad Autónoma de Madrid

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[Jos Vos]

Dear David,

I was aware of the Fiala translation; it's precisely that which made me wonder why Poland seems to be lagging behind!

Just for the record, the recent Italian and Dutch Genji translations were definitely not based on Waley, and neither was René Sieffert's French version from 1999.

I'm glad to hear there's a Spanish Kojiki but I'm still making my way through the extensive critical apparatus in Klaus Antoni's highly readable German version of this classic, which I got for Christmas.

Regards,

Jos

---

From: pm...@googlegroups.com <pm...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mervart, David <mer...@asia-europe.uni-heidelberg.de>
Sent: 19 April 2017 21:40

[Charles De Wolf]

I confess to having been ignorant of Michael Emmerich's statement regarding Genji translations. But note that he does not put the definite article after “the basis for...” It is true that the first German, French, and Italian translations were based on Waley, but those that I have read are by Oscar Benl (1966), René Sieffert (1988), and Maria Teresa Orsi (2012) respectively. They are quite independent of Waley's version--including, in the case of the first two, their errors, Sieffert's being remarkably few. Both Benl and Sieffert, especially the latter, use deliberately archaic language. The rendition by Jos Vos into Dutch has, if I may cheekily venture to say so, very much its own style, quite distinct from that of the other “Germanic” translations.

Sieffert avoids naming names, even more than Royall Tyler. Here are lines from Wakana I in the Waley, Sieffert, Tyler, Vos, and Washburn versions:

みずからも参りたまふべきよし、聞こし召して、院はいといたく喜びきこえさせたまふ。

中納言の君参りたまへるを、御簾の内に召し入れて、御物語こまやかなり。

Genji sent frequently to enquire and even promised to come in person, but ultimately sent his son Yugiri instead. (AW)

Ayant appris que l'ancien Ministre en personne se proposait de lui rendre visite, l'Empereur retiré en ressenti une vive joie. Quand le seigneur Moyen Conseiller se présenta, il le fit mander au dedans des stores et l'entretint familèrement: (RS)

Tot zijn grote vreugde vernam Suzuku dat zelfs Genji van plan was persoonlijk naar hem toe te komen. Toen Yugiri zihn opwachting maakte, liet Suzaku hem toe binnen de blinden, voor een vertrouwelijk gesprek. (JV)

His Eminence was extremely happy to learn that Genji himself would soon come to see him. When Genji's son, the Counselor arrived, His Eminence called him in through the blinds and addressed him earnestly. (RT)

...and when Suzaku learned that Genji himself planned to call on him, he was pleased and honored. Genji’s son, the Middle Counselor, paid him a visit, and Suzaku summoned him inside the blinds, where they had a close, intimate conversation. (DW)

 

This is a typical example of Waley’s free translation, cutting out what he apparently thinks (!) unnecessary.

Whereas in Sieffert’s translation, Genji is referred to according to his changing titles, Royall Tyler, as he explains in his introduction, compromises in this one instance and calls him by his “traditional name.” (It strikes me as quite a reasonable exception—especially as Genji isn’t a “real name” anyway.)

Like Sieffert, RT translates the verses according the 5-7-5-7-7 pattern. (Sieffert takes full advantage of French poetic conventions for syllable count.)

御物語こまやかなり illustrates the semantic challenges faced by translators. What does komayaka mean in this context? In Modern Japanese, the primary meaning may be something close to ‘tender(ly)’, but in the older language it clearly has a maddeningly broader meaning...Maria Teresa Orsi renders the phrase as as “affettuosamente.” When one reads what the retired emperor has to say, it sounds more like an earnest tête-à-tête than “hey, how’vya been doin’?” But, of course, it’s possible to be affectionate and earnest at the same time. I must say that I rather like “vertrouweljik” in the Dutch translation by Jos Vos.

Anyway, my long-winded point here is that these days no one is relying on Arthur Waley, as elegantly freewheeling as he may be. He simply skips over it...

In a most interesting essay, the late and lamented Edward Seidensticker discusses the question of whether archaic language is appropriate in translating the Genji (he thinks not) and mentions René Sieffert's translation in that regard, though he says (with characteristic honesty and humility) that his French isn't good enough for him to judge...Far be it from dabbler me to wax preachy about the need for more multilingualism, but I do wish that non-English translations of Classical Japanese got more attention in the English-speaking world.

Again, apologies for going on and on, and perhaps for going off topic

Charles De Wolf

---

From: Jos Vos <josm...@hotmail.com>
To: "pm...@googlegroups.com" <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:20 AM

Subject: Re: [PMJS] Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics

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--

Alexander Vovin
Membre d'Academia Europaea
Directeur d'études, linguistique historique du Japon et de l'Asie du Nord-Est

ECOLE DES HAUTES ETUDES EN SCIENCES SOCIALES

CENTRE DE RECHERCHES LINGUISTIQUES SUR L'ASIE ORIENTALE

105 Blvd Raspail, 75006 Paris

sasha...@gmail.com

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[raji.s...@aoi.uzh.ch]

Dear Jos & all,

since you're reading Kojiki, and the question of Polish translations of ancient Japanese literature has been on the table - let us not forget the translation by Kotański:
Kotański, Wiesław. Kojiki czyli Księga dawnych wydarzeń. T. 1-2 T. 1-2. Warszawa: C & S, 1993.
(Although I must admit that I haven't held it in my hands).

A little off topic, because medieval, but I'd like to draw this list's attention also to Maciej Kanert's sustained efforts to make the works of Dōgen available in Polish. I have found his translations very valuable when considering how to understand difficult passages in the Shōbō genzō.

Dōgen, and Maciej Kanert. ‘Zapiski z ery Baoqing’. Politeja : pismo Wydziału Studiów Międzynarodowych i Politycznych Uniwersytetu Jagiellońskiego. 2011 (2011): 253–281. (Being a translation of Hōkyōki)

———. Zasady uprawiania zalecanej wszystkim siedzącej medytacji = Fukan zazengi. Kraków: Wydaw. A, 2003.

Dōgen, Maciej Kanert, and Polskie Towarzystwo Orientalistyczne. Reguła zgromadzenia mnichów buddyjskich. Warszawa: Wydawnictwa Uniwersytetu Warszawskiego, 2006.

Dōgen, Maciej Kanert, Uniwersytet Jagielloński, and Wydawnictwo. Oko i Skarbiec Prawdziwego Prawa. T. 2, XVII-XXXX. Kraków: Wydawnictwo Uniwersytetu Jagiellońskiego, 2014.

Kigen, Dogen, and M Kanert. Oko i skarbiec prawdziwego prawa: o praktykowaniu drogi zwoje I-XVI. Krakow: Homini, 2005.

Best,

Raji

Prof. Dr. Raji C. Steineck
Professor für Japanologie
Asien-Orient-Institut
Universität Zürich
Zürichbergstrasse 4
8032 Zürich

++41+44-634 3181

Neue Publikationen/new publications
Kritik der symbolischen Formen I: Symbolische Form und Funktion
http://www.frommann-holzboog.de/site/suche/detailansicht.php?wid=517000320

That Wonderful Composite Called Author: Authorship in East Asian Literatures from the Beginnings to the Seventeenth Century
http://www.brill.com/products/book/wonderful-composite-called-author

-----pm...@googlegroups.com schrieb: -----

An: "pm...@googlegroups.com" <pm...@googlegroups.com>
Von: Jos Vos
Gesendet von: pm...@googlegroups.com
Datum: 20.04.2017 08:20
Betreff: Re: [PMJS] Trends in Western Research on Ancient Japanese Classics

[Ross Bender]

Yūbe kanto no ‘junsui-risei-hihan’ o yomihajemeta tokoro kofun shite nemurenaku narimashita.

--from the Immortal How To Sound Intelligent in Japanese Annotated (2017 Mennodada)

ユーベカントの『純粋理性実践理性批判 【じっせんりせいひはん】 (n); Critique of Practical Reason (Kant). を黄泉黄泉 【こうせん|よみ】 ❶(n); underground spring; ❷ Hades; hell; underworld. はじめた古墳 【こふん】 (n); ancient burial mound; barrow; tumulus; (P). して眠れまく鳴りました。

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/

[Anthony Chambers]

I'm very grateful for Charles De Wolf's post, with its textual comparisons and references to Edward Seidensticker. No apologies are called for. Just for fun, here's Seidensticker's translation of the same passage:

. . . to the sick man's very great pleasure, [Genji] proposed a visit.

     Yūgiri came with the news and was invited behind the royal curtains for an intimate talk. (p. 538)

 Tony Chambers

Anthony H. Chambers
Professor of Japanese Literature, Emeritus
School of International Letters and Cultures

Arizona State University

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[Ross Bender]

I am thrilled to report that the much-vaunted Google Translate is nowhere near becoming a threat to translators of ancient, classical, and medieval Japanese classics:

みずからも参りたまふべきよし、聞こし召して、院はいといたく喜びきこえさせたまふ。

中納言の君参りたまへるを、御簾の内に召し入れて、御物語こまやかなり。

I heard that the dude seemed to have heard it, the hospital heard so much joyfully.

In the name of Midori 's gentleman you called me, I call you into the bamboo shoots, the story is good.

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/

[William Wetherall]

Google Translate is not even a threat to translating modern Japanese.

David Bellos advises people to use GT only to render something into a language in which they are sure they can recognize nonsense. This advise doesn't take into account cases in which GT accurately translates nonsense into nonsense, or inaccurately translates nonsense into sense, or sense A into sense B.

Translating "translation": A review of David Bellos's Is That a Fish in Your Ear?
www.yoshabunko.com/translations/Wetherall_2012_Translating_translation.html

Bill Wetherall

On 2017/04/21 9:11, Ross Bender wrote:
> I am thrilled to report that the much-vaunted Google Translate is nowhere near becoming a threat to translators of ancient, classical, and medieval Japanese classics:
>
> みずからも参りたまふべきよし、聞こし召して、院はいといたく喜びきこえさせたまふ。
> 中納言の君参りたまへるを、御簾の内に召し入れて、御物語こまやかなり。
>

> *I heard that the dude seemed to have heard it, the hospital heard so much joyfully.*
> *In the name of Midori 's gentleman you called me, I call you into the bamboo shoots, the story is good.*
>
> Ross Bender
> https://rossbender.academia.edu/ <https://rossbender.academia.edu/>

>
>
> --
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[Ross Bender]

Thanks to all for a very illuminating discussion on translation. BTW the Michael Emmerich article Bill Weatherall cited is here:

http://www.wordswithoutborders.org/article/beyond-between-translation-ghosts-metaphors

But to return to Sasha Vovin's comment, I very much agree that the boundaries btw OJ and EMJ need clarifying:

"We all often commit the same "sin" of straying away from the original topic in our private exchanges, but I felt that keeping it this way on the official discussion list might possibly do double harm to both studies of Nara and to studies of Heian for quite obvious reasons, but if they are not so obvious to you any one else on the list, I can elaborate. "

Frellesvig's History lists pJ, OJ, EOJ,EMJ, LMJ, NJ, and eNJ. (I'd have a hard time identifying them on a quiz.)

But I have a query about an introduction to Motoori Norinaga's Miyomiyo no mikotonorigoto no tokigoibumi --see attached. This was written in 1803 but AFAIK inscribed in Old Japanese. Any comments, hints, or other help on the name of the author and the contents are welcome.

Ross Bender​
https://rossbender.academia.edu/ <https://rossbender.academia.edu/>

[Richard Bowring]

Ross.

Just starters, this is Tonomura (殿村) Yasunori, one of Norinaga’s deshi. His 姓 was 大神, which may well have been read MIwa.

Richard

<Scan_20170421 (2).jpg>

Ross Bender​
https://rossbender.academia.edu/ <https://rossbender.academia.edu/>

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<norinagaintro.pdf>

[Ross Bender]

Thanks, Richard. Edo period is uncharted territory for me, but I'm curious whether Kokugakusha or others habitually wrote in Old Japanese. I learned that Tonomura wrote some sort of commentary on Bakin's "Confucian Dogs" 犬夷評判記. But I'm not clear what sort of Japanese that was inscribed in, nor for that matter how one might diagnose the language of Bakin's monumental novel.

Ross Bender

https://rossbender.academia.edu/ <https://rossbender.academia.edu/>

[Chris Kern]

I have not seen any kokugakusha writing in Old Japanese; Norinaga and others used the standard "literary" Japanese of the time, which was basically a type of  Heian MJ, I believe.

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[Matt Treyvaud]

Norinaga's usual writing style was definitely literary/classical Japanese as Chris says, but I wonder if he never tried his hand at this sort of thing, in similar contexts. (I don't recall ever having seen it myself.)

It's interesting to consider to what extent Tonomura's preface is successfully "written in OJ". It certainly looks like an OJ text, but does he have all his ongana in order? Is "tutapari-yukamu" really kosher OJ? What about "ni namo nari-idetaru"? (Not to mention the question of how Tonomura himself conceived of the distinction between regular literary Japanese and Old Japanese.) A close and critical reading by an OJ specialist would be quite illuminating, I bet.

Incidentally, 犬夷評判記 is in Waseda's koten database:

http://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosho/he13/he13_00903/

It seems to be written in pretty standard literary Japanese for the time:

ひいき　あら玉の、とし立かへるあしたより、待るゝものは、鴬ならで鶏か鳴く、東なる曲亭のよみ本しかるに里見八犬伝朝身(夷?)巡島記は、二編までにて物を思はせ、去年は出板の沙汰もなし、風間を承るに、作者近年は、病身になられし理(?)とも...

--Matt

On April 26, 2017 at 07:43:08 , Chris Kern (chris...@gmail.com) wrote:
> I have not seen any kokugakusha writing in Old Japanese; Norinaga and
> others used the standard "literary" Japanese of the time, which was
> basically a type of Heian MJ, I believe.
>
> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Ross Bender

> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Richard. Edo period is uncharted territory for me, but I'm curious
> > whether Kokugakusha or others habitually wrote in Old Japanese. I learned
> > that Tonomura wrote some sort of commentary on Bakin's "Confucian Dogs"

> > *犬夷評判記*. But I'm not clear what sort of Japanese that was inscribed in,

> > nor for that matter how one might diagnose the language of Bakin's
> > monumental novel.
> >
> > Ross Bender
> > https://rossbender.academia.edu/

> > [image: Inline image 1]
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Richard Bowring wrote:
> >
> >> Ross.
> >> Just starters, this is Tonomura (殿村) Yasunori, one of Norinaga’s deshi.
> >> His 姓 was 大神, which may well have been read MIwa.
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>

[Glynne Walley]

I agree about Ken'i hyobanki being written in pretty standard literary Japanese for the time.  Incidentally, although Tonomura Josai (as Bakin knew him) was one of the correspondents listed as taking part in the exchange that became Ken'i hyobanki (along with his brother-in-law Rekitei Kingyo), scholars suspect that Bakin himself wrote or rewrote a lot of their "contributions."  I.e., one way to read this critique is as an indication of how Bakin hoped readers would think about Hakkenden (the 犬 of the title) and Asaina shimameguri no ki  朝夷巡嶋記 (the 夷).  Shameless plug: I touch on this in my book on Hakkenden, which will be coming out...sometime.

As for how one might "diagnose" the language of Hakkenden itself, strangely that's something I'm not really touching on in my book (kinda cancels out the plug, doesn't it?).  But it's varied.  The base is a standard literary Japanese of the time, but Bakin stretches that pretty far.  Some passages of it are clear imitations of the style you find in gunki, others lean a bit closer to monogatari style, some are in the famous 7-5 meter (but not all of it by any means, rumor to the contrary), some read almost like kanbun kakikudashi, and throughout there are generous borrowings from kabuki and joruri styles and importations of vocabulary and set phrases from Chinese vernacular fiction.  He even composes a chōka with an envoy (he calls it waga esenagauta mijikauta, owning that they're "fakes") for one of the prefaces.  I find it a really intoxicating brew. 

Glynne Walley
East Asian Languages and Literatures
University of Oregon