A sneak peak at a pay-what-you-will steno writer

[Scott Urueta]

I have been using a Stenoboard for a while now, and I feel like I'm reaching a point where I am better off with getting rid of the somewhat-difficult clicky microswitches. Don't get me wrong, the Stenoboard is an amazing project and is affordable enough to use as a learning tool. I would probably not be around here right now if it hadn't been available to me. But it isn't up to par with what I would enjoy typing with longer-term. Despite milled aluminium keycaps and a wood case sounding delicious on the Stenosaurus, like Robert Fontaine says, "I'd prefer a less sexy plastic machine ... with less price and less wait ;)"

So, I introduce to you all a less sexy plastic machine with less price and (perhaps a little) less wait, the SOFT/HRUF!

I started work on this project only three or four days ago with no idea how to do anything. Between then and now, I've learned how to model in OpenSCAD, use a 3D printer, (re)write keyboard firmware, solder matrices, and burned through nearly twenty iterations of keycap styles before finding a decent setup that could fit the entire keyboard on a single build plate. That work is just starting to pay off into something usable, so I figured I'd share a quick photo to show where it has come to and to gauge potential interest. Hopefully in the next couple weeks I get the first version finished, get some keyboards picked up, and some pennies thrown at me to offset the cost of this printer.

Of course, I'll be fully releasing the source so you all can build upon and improve it as soon as everything is in a usable state. I will also be setting up a storefront with a pay-what-you-will option like I mentioned in the title. The way it will work is that there is a minimum set price that is equivalent to the direct cost of the parts (with no charge for assembly) and you'll pay exactly what I pay to acquire the parts. But if you are feeling like you want to be wallet-friendly, you can choose any greater price you think is fair for my time and effort.

I will be putting together two editions. The first version, ERL, is designed to be as cheap as sensibly possible and to be released as early as possible. It will essentially amount to a standard USB cable setup like how you would find on the Stenoboard. The second version will involve diving into an entertaining nightmare of a Raspberry Pi (help me, Hien Quan?), a display, LiPo batteries, and serial over bluetooth. Let me know what you think!

[Theodore Morin]

Awesome. Can't have enough of these projects! Will you offer the ability to choose your switch type (Matias or Cherry?) In any case, I'll definitely throw some pennies at you. Though Canada doesn't have pennies anymore so I guess you'll just have to settle for dollars.

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[Scott Urueta]

Oh great, I stroked peak instead of peek.

[Robert Fontaine]

Brilliant!

[Scott Urueta]

Thanks!

Yes, I'll definitely offer switch choices. I haven't yet designed a set of keycaps using a Cherry stem, but that is in my todo and I already have the 35g linear Gaterons being shipped my way.

[Theodore Morin]

I wonder if it will be possible to source even lighter switch springs. The Tréal has 15 gram springs so it must be viable…

[Hesky Fisher]

What kind of microcontroller are you using on the inside?

[Scott Urueta]

If I can't find extremely light springs in small enough lots, I could always stretch and trim the 35g switch springs. It would just be extremely tedious and time consuming.

[Scott Urueta]

A Teensy. It is wired up like a regular keyboard at the moment and I haven't fully coded the Bolt or Gemini protocol. I could probably just borrow some StenoFW code to get there more quickly, but I want to have it set up so no manual software installation is necessary.

[Robert Fontaine]

Works, reasonably priced and available seem like the appropriate tenets.

Switch and spring replacement,  and other gold plating are best left as customizations later.

Inevitably everyone has an opinion and it will slightly differ per individial.   By picking a reasonable middle ground and not asking for to many suggestions/providing too many options you should be able to get to a deliverable far faster with less overhead for yourself.   Group buys on geekhack (the custom keyboard forum) are regularily side swiped by an infinite number of variations an options. (Don't go there).

Cherry switch copyrights have run out recently and this is why the chinese knockoffs of cherry's have come out at cheaper prices.  Whether they are of equal quality is open to debate.
Whatever you can source at a good price in adequate quantities should be exciting to anyone who is interested ;)

Good luck and I will be following closely.

On 12/7/2015 8:31 AM, Scott Urueta wrote:

[Johnny Sagan]

Very excited for this, a dream come not just true but through, keep me posted, gonna get back in the steno game with this one! Thanks, keep it up everyone! Let's Transcribe The Future! ...Because In The Beginning (Of The Web) Was The Word!

Sent from my iPhone

[Charles Shattuck]

Will you be making a printed circuit board, or will it be hand wired? I'd actually prefer hand wired so I could make it my own way. I really like what the you're doing!

[Scott Urueta]

Don't worry, I am actually only going to have those two switch options available for that exact reason. Any customization I might mess around with will be saved for after the extremely quick-release version.

[Scott Urueta]

I don't have time to learn how to use KiCAD and etch PCBs, so the ERL version will definitely be hndwired. The key here for this one is hyper-fast release. My original timeline for release is less than a month.

The first week isn't over yet and I already have a working product. By week two, I am hoping for the design and code to be finalized, and week three I am setting up shop. Don't take this timeline as set in stone, though, because with such a time crunch I am expecting delays.

[Tony Wright]

I am in love. I love that design. So ergonomic and actually really attractive as well. Can't wait!

--Tony

[Scott Urueta]

I've been calculating total costs today if anyone had questions about actual pricing. It seems labor is the most expensive part, so the recommended default price ends up being in the range of $120-$145. However, if you genuinely cannot afford that, the lowest the PWYW scale will go is likely to be ~$61 for material costs.

[Mirabai Knight]

Wow, Scott! Is $120 to $145 sustainable to you? Would you be able to
make a fair number of these things without it cutting into your
quality of life or making you lose money? If so, that would be a real
game changer.

Also, any plans to release it in a color other than white? I'd kill
for a black one. (';

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[Scott Urueta]

$130 is actually around the break-even point when including my time and effort. I can sustain that indefinitely without too many problems once I am used to the process of assembly, at least on paper. The print times are slothy enough that it is impossible for it to cut into my life even at full-tilt production. That price, of course, is for the non-Pi'd, non-bluetooth, non-nice, early version.

I did not choose the color. It is simply the spool my printer shipped with. I am thinking about keeping any options I have at no more than two choices to keep things simple and make it plausible to have parts on-hand so I think white and black are a good choice.

With the sort of fast development track lacking any semblance of proper testing, I am hoping there aren't any small unforeseen issues that might arise after a few months of use. For full disclosure, grabbing one of these (like with any cheaply printed plastic product) is a bit of a risk with regards to longevity. The benefit is that I should be able to have a finished black one sent out to you during or right after the holidays.

[Charles Shattuck]

What would be included for $130? Would it be a kit? I would love to be able to get all the 3D printed parts and the key switches, but use my own Arduino Mini and FTDI Friend and hand wire it to match the software I'm already using in my homemade keyboards, namely TX Bolt. I'll be watching this eagerly!

[Scott Urueta]

It would be entirely assembled for that price. An unassembled kit's break-even point for parts + time/effort I am estmating to be about $70-$80 if you want to hand-wire and assemble everything yourself.

The reason this is all so cheap is because that is the price where it is near the lower limits of the pay-what-you-will Humble Bundle-style scale. If you believe this will provide more value than those $70-$80 and want to help fund further development, you bump the scale up.

It is in everyone's best interests to make this as easily accessible and for as many people as possible. It is more of a community project that happens to help pay for my food/housing than a commercial business plan and I intend to keep it that way.

[Scott Urueta]

Sorry, I forgot to explain what will be included. The current parts list for the quick-release includes case, keycaps, switches, Teensy, USB cable, internal wiring, and diodes. Nothing else. The concept is to take really great keyswitches, reliable wiring, and avoid knockoff microcontrollers with sketchy QA. Instead, I try to cut excess where I see it is less vital, such as using affordable materials on a screwless build, no LEDs, minimal branding, and little to no packaging.

[Charles Shattuck]

Sounds great Scott! I wanted to use a real Arduino Mini and FTDI friend because I already know how and the software has already been working for quite some time now on my current DIY keyboards, but maybe I'll look into programming the teensy instead. I'd be willing to pay $100 for that kit!

[Mirabai Knight]

Just posted about the SOFT/HRUF on the Plover Blog:
http://plover.stenoknight.com/2015/12/sneak-peek-at-new-3d-printed-steno.html

So what's the story behind the name, Scott? Dying to know! (':

[Fred James]

One question comes to mind ... earlier there was some suggestion as to
the sturdiness of the printed plastic material. I had read that one
could produce hammers and other tools with a 3D printer, and had just
assumed then that the material was quite sturdy ... is that not true?
Does it easily scratch, crumble or break? What I am seeking is some
clarification, if possible.
Thanks
Regards
Fred James

[Scott Urueta]

I wish I had a story about the name. I came up with it on a whim at 4 am and genuinely don't remember how or why or what the process was that I came to it.

I do have a made up post-rationalization about how, to the untrained eye, it looks like it might mean soft/rough, with the keyswitches being quite soft but the build being quite rough. But if you know Plover, you can tell it is actually "love".

[Scott Urueta]

The case itself is rock solid. I can stand on it without it breaking. However, the sidewalls of the keycaps are mostly cosmetic and can break off fairly easily. The tops of the caps are sturdier and will never break under normal use. The only issue I foresee is that it is extremely difficult to print stems that wont snap off.

In the next build I'm completing this weekend, I will be printing the caps in a higher quality setting and absolutely no hollowed interior structures. I will consider the caps finalized for release if they are sturdy enough at that point.

[Mirabai Knight]

Ha! So in that case, should we pronounce it "hruf" or "love"?

On Dec 8, 2015 8:34 PM, "Scott Urueta" <edi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wish I had a story about the name. I came up with it on a whim at 4 am and genuinely don't remember how or why or what the process was that I came to it.

I do have a made up post-rationalization about how, to the untrained eye, it looks like it might mean soft/rough, with the keyswitches being quite soft but the build being quite rough. But if you know Plover, you can tell it is actually "love".

[Scott Urueta]

If you want to know the "official" pronunciation, it is love.

I always say hruf jokingly to my friends with an explicitly enunciated "h" because I think it sounds funny.

[sveith]

In my own keycap experiments, I got better results when I gave the stems a "socket", so to speak; that is, don't join them to the surface at a right angle, but with a slope. I believe this gives them less leverage and makes them harder to break. You might want to look into that.
Good luck with the project!

[Scott Urueta]

I've tried this, but the only difference between a well-bonded straight stem and a stem with a little extra at the bottom has seemed to be that the one with extra material at the bottom simply snaps at a lower point.

[Steven Tammen]

Looking good man! I'm going to echo the sentiment about keeping it simple and getting a working machine out for the first go around. Designs get better through iteration not getting everything perfect the first time (OSS has done this for ages, so why don't all open hardware people take the hint?).

For more advanced features for later (or on the more deluxe edition), I'd like to toss out the options for an SD card to store dictionaries and embedded plover for plug n play. Those were two of the main selling points the Stenosaurus had for me, and if I could avoid paying ~$150+ for aesthetic considerations, you'd win me and I'm sure others over. My inner engineer doesn't care how it looks: it cares how it works. Function over form, always and forever. (Just don't make it pink)

I am curious, however, if you have seen Lifton's keyswitches, on crowd supply here. The low actuation force is the selling point, and they're ALPS based. Probably more expensive than the Chinese Cherry knock-offs but they might be worth a look.

[Scott Urueta]

I agree entirely. I am aiming to get an absolute bare-bones basic board out asap before rolling out any other features. Those quiet linear switches are exactly the switches I am using, in fact.

I have still been thinking about possible paths to take later and one of them has been including a flash drive with plover included, so when you plug in the board, both the drive and the keyboard are on a single hub.

[dragon788]

Hi Scott,

If you have the 3D dimensions down for the keycaps and its just the material causing issues, you might want to try getting Shapeways or 3dhubs to print in an alternate material like nylon or PLA (or ABS if you were using one of the former) or I think you could even have them do some sintered metal, but that might be a bit expensive, though milled aluminum would probably last forever.

[dragon788]

By the way, definitely interested at around the $100 price point for sure, and I'd be happy to assemble it myself to save you some trouble.

[Mike S]

I want to give you money!


How do I give you money?


Have you setup a pre-order page or donation site? 

[Scott Urueta]

I'll be setting up the order page after the first version is complete. You'll see a progress update by Sunday.

I would rather not take donations or preorders. But if you would really like to help, you could always send me a decent soldering iron since my current one is one of those cheapo $5 ones and about as comfortable as shaving with a fuzzy cactus.

[Scott Urueta]

I overestimated my final exams, so I am a little ahead of schedule.

I finished the updated case to make it easier to produce more of my babies. The wiring is far more accessible and organized, there is now a dedicated slot to fit the microcontroller so the USB port is open on the back, and the print times for the case have been cut in half, from ten hours to five hours. Surprisingly, Stenoboard's firmware works nearly out-of-the-box, with only a handful of lines regarding letter arrangement and pinout needing to be changed. I might just package it with StenoFW, but I am planning on updating the NKRO mode to behave more like a normal keyboard. My thinking is that if I set it up with modifier keys and "layers" like a Planck (and with the form factor of a tiny Atreus), it could have a normal keyboard mode to potentially bridge the overlap of interest between the mechanical keyboard community and the Plover community. I know that one of my pains when trying to learn was the stage where stenotype was completely unusable for daily use and every time I'd want to practice, I'd have to completely swap out keyboards.

[Joshua Taylor]

Looks exciting, can't wait to see a post saying you're ready for us to throw some money at you. :)

-- Joshua Taylor

--

[dragon788]

This is totally awesome, and I love how you are comparing it to the Atreus as I was actually wondering about getting one to try with steno. I would be over the MOON for a dual mode keyboard that could be easily flipped between "modes" aka layers for steno vs a regular typing experience.

[Scott Urueta]

I've been dying for a keyboard that could be flipped like that too. It is one of the side reasons I started this. The main speedbump is that it is going to be tough to figure out how to arrange 104 keys onto usable layers when you only have 37 switches to play with.

As a side note, I've ordered myself a soldering iron to replace the garbage one (and a handful more teensies, black PLA filament, and some other small items I need to get into production). While I wait for those to ship, I have been setting up shop. That also took way less time than I expected, so I now am about two weeks ahead of schedule total. I even should be able to start taking orders and making them by next week, surprisingly. It might be a bit of a rocky release going from concept to product in one week and without much testing, but I think I can manage.

I took a screenshot to preview the site. Aside from cards, PayPal and Bitcoin are also accepted and the shop is technically in a usable state right now. Left to do: PWYW still has a few kinks to work out and I haven't created items for replacement parts yet.

[Scott Urueta]

The site is now complete and keyboard design is finalized for release. I have one last test print and if everything goes according to plan, I will unlock the site and start taking orders Monday. I will be printing a handful of cases and keycaps while continuing to wait for my soldering station to arrive. For a bit of bad news, there won't be any keyswitch options for a while and the black color filament I placed an order for is backordered until the 18th. Also, my price estimate was disappointingly a little bit off from actual materials cost so I've adjusted the minimum pricing to something I won't be losing money on. Actual price will be a minimum of $74 unassembled and $94 assembled, sorry about that.

I am about to crash asleep between continuing to study for finals and getting everything ready.

At first, I am limiting the number of fully-assembled boards to make sure nothing goes horribly wrong.

[Scott Urueta]

I accidentally hit submit before I finished...

At first, I am limiting the number of fully-assembled boards to make sure nothing goes horribly wrong. If the keycaps hold up like they have been under normal use for me so far, all is well. If not, I am planning on reprinting them in nylon for more durability, which won't be too difficult if I don't have too many boards already released.

I have been avoiding nylon due to difficulties with preparation for printing it in humid places though it could be worth the extra effort.

Now I am actually going to sleep.

[Mike S]

How many parts need soldering in the unassembled version? (I also have one of those cheap $4 soldering irons. )

The color will be white (good)? 

[dragon788]

I think borrowing from the Atreus layout where he isolates letters and numbers and symbols and special keys makes a lot of sense. Typically it would be when communicating or coding that you might need to fall back to a regular keyboard if you don't have the chords down.

[Scott Urueta]

Here is an outline of all the parts that need soldering:

• 37 diodes which also act as the wiring for rows.
• 11 wires that form the wiring for columns.
• 2 ribbons of wire that contain a total of 11 pairs of ends for columns.
• 1 ribbon of wire that contains 4 pairs of ends for the rows.

There should be exactly 100 points where solder will need to be applied. I won't print and pack assembly instructions, but I will post a tutorial on the soft love site when I start assembling the final boards myself.

And yes, the initial color will be white, so lucky you. If anyone (and of course by anyone, I mean Mirabai) wants black, you'll have to wait for my black spool to arrive and for me to dial in the print settings for that particular filament. At that point, I'll make the black option available.

[Scott Urueta]

I've been planning a layout today. It is Dvorak-based because that is what I'm used to, but it should be easy to adapt to a qwerty layout when I'm done.

[Scott Urueta]

It has just occurred to me that if I want to buy microcontrollers, it is much more affordable to ship them in multiples than as orders come in, so I am going to provide a store password before fully unlocking the site so you guys can place orders now. That way, I can place a larger order of all your microcontrollers at once, make sure I have more than enough switches, etc.

There are still some placeholder items and prices so I do not want to fully open the store, but I still want to be able to get these in your hands as soon as possible. If you want just the case, just the keycaps, or similar, you're going to have to wait until it is fully opened.

When you get on the site, there is an "enter with password" button. Use the code plovergroup to get in. Let me know if there are any issues with the checkout process.

[Joshua Taylor]

What will be needed materials wise on my end? I have access to solder and a soldering iron, should I be buying anything else alongside the softhruf?

Thanks,

-- Joshua Taylor

--

[Scott Urueta]

If you don't have a wire stripper, really pointy wire clipper, and needlenose pliers, this will be a bit of a nightmare. If you'd like, you can leave a note and I'll measure and pre-cut the wiring for you (you still should have needlenose pliers and a wire stripper + clipper anyway).

One of the assembly difficulties lies in the fact that I stopped using a separate switchplate for structural reasons, which means you're basically trying to solder within the case itself.

[Joshua Taylor]

I've got access to those, too. And if I'm having trouble I can always ask my Dad for help; he's an electrical engineer. Thanks for the answers. :)

-- Joshua Taylor

[Steven Tammen]

Alright, ordered! What do you think your general timetable is for getting these things shipped? I'll be on a work rotation in my college schedule next semester so I'll have time on evenings to practice steno, but it would also be nice to have it over break to put all this free time to good use. No rush, just curious.

I too am interested in the on-the-fly switch to keyboard mode, but I type with a fully optimized custom layout (Balance 12, if you've ever heard of it... kind of a cross between Dvorak and Colemak). How technical would modding the firmware be to customize the keyboard mode with layers and such? Not too much hardware interfacing experience on this end... I probably wouldn't trust myself without a GUI to do it or at least directions on which things to tweak in a file.

[Joshua Taylor]

Sorry for the barrage of questions; last one: I promise. Does the unassembled version come with the keycap part of it? I would assume so, but it's not in the picture. I'm assuming the only difference between the two is that there is more assembly required for the unassembled one, but that the contents do not differ, is that correct?

-- Joshua Taylor

[Scott Urueta]

I can get the microcontrollers ordered on 2-day shipping, I already have a full spool of white filament, a plump baggie of switches, and more than enough wire. The bottleneck is likely to be the arrival of my soldering iron on Wednesday and then printing and assembly. I can print two keyboards each day and I can work on assembly while printing. I am estimating that I can have them sent out by the 21st and I'll pick the fastest shipping that seems sensible and is within the price paid.

It is just unfortunate that I happen to have started this project right around Christmas.

As for the keyboard mode, right now it is just using the NKRO mode in StenoFW, which can't really be used as an actual normal keyboard. It is intended to be for the NKRO mode of Plover. A usable layout will be made available in a software update, so I am going to change the product description on the page right now to clarify this. If you want to edit the layout specifically to the Balance 12 layout, a GUI is out of the scope of this project. Tweaking things in a file should be fairly simple as long as you don't want to include any complex macros and should amount to changing a list of keycodes. I can provide a guide on this once I've completed the separate keyboard mode.

[Scott Urueta]

Yep, the unassembled one comes with keycaps as well. Contents are identical besides assembly and I fixed that in the description.

I'll be updating the photos with the actual contents of a ful kit once I have all the supplies I need shipped.

[Scott Urueta]

Also, for future reference, don't worry about asking tons of questions. These all help me refine the descriptions and instructions so I know what generally needs to be included and what doesn't.

I should set up an FAQ on the site after everyone has their boards

[Steven Tammen]

Oh, I wasn't expecting this version to have the keyboard functionality at all (though I certainly won't complain if it ships in a future update). I was just joining in on the conversation you guys were having about the concept because I thought it was worth discussing. I probably should have made that more clear.

I'm not afraid of editing files so long as they aren't terribly complicated -- I'm just not very knowledgeable about how one does these things so I might think it's much harder than it really is. I wouldn't be using this as my primary keyboard anyway so I wouldn't bother with any of the macro stuff I might otherwise be interested in. This machine is primarily for me to learn steno on, so anything else is just bonus.

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[dragon788]

Scott, would getting one without the switches and unassembled speed up the process/reduce the cost? I already have a bunch of the quiet Matias from crowd supply so I really just need the rest of the kit.

[Mike S]

Will the unassembled one ship faster? I'm willing to do the work if it means that I get mine a lot faster than  an assembled one. 

If it isn't too much trouble, eventually you might consider just offering the hard to create parts like the body shell and the key caps. 

Also, with the unassembled one's instructions would be really useful if it was in video form. Nothing fancy but just a recording of you going about your normal process. 

I

On Monday, December 7, 2015 at 9:31:21 AM UTC-5, Scott Urueta wrote:

I have been using a Stenoboard for a while now, and I feel like I'm reaching a point where I am better off with getting rid of the somewhat-difficult clicky microswitches. Don't get me wrong, the Stenoboard is an amazing project and is affordable enough to use as a learning tool. I would probably not be around here right now if it hadn't been available to me. But it isn't up to par with what I would enjoy typing with longer-term. Despite milled aluminium keycaps and a wood case sounding delicious on the Stenosaurus, like Robert Fontaine says, "I'd prefer a less sexy plastic machine ... with less price and less wait ;)"

So, I introduce to you all a less sexy plastic machine with less price and (perhaps a little) less wait, the SOFT/HRUF!

I started work on this project only three or four days ago with no idea how to do anything. Between then and now, I've learned how to model in OpenSCAD, use a 3D printer, (re)write keyboard firmware, solder matrices, and burned through nearly twenty iterations of keycap styles before finding a decent setup that could fit the entire keyboard on a single build plate. That work is just starting to pay off into something usable, so I figured I'd share a quick photo to show where it has come to and to gauge potential interest. Hopefully in the next couple weeks I get the first version finished, get some keyboards picked up, and some pennies thrown at me to offset the cost of this printer.

Of course, I'll be fully releasing the source so you all can build upon and improve it as soon as everything is in a usable state. I will also be setting up a storefront with a pay-what-you-will option like I mentioned in the title. The way it will work is that there is a minimum set price that is equivalent to the direct cost of the parts (with no charge for assembly) and you'll pay exactly what I pay to acquire the parts. But if you are feeling like you want to be wallet-friendly, you can choose any greater price you think is fair for my time and effort.

I will be putting together two editions. The first version, ERL, is designed to be as cheap as sensibly possible and to be released as early as possible. It will essentially amount to a standard USB cable setup like how you would find on the Stenoboard. The second version will involve diving into an entertaining nightmare of a Raspberry Pi (help me, Hien Quan?), a display, LiPo batteries, and serial over bluetooth. Let me know what you think!

[Ellis Pratt]

If you are offering an assembled version, make sure you don't trip up over product safety legislation. 

If you're selling to to the EU, you need the product to have a CE accreditation mark, and I'm sure there's a US FCA type equivalent. 

This is the reason why the StenoBoard is sold part assembled. 

[Scott Urueta]

You could decrease the tip and leave a note in the order if you'd like. If you were intending to go for the minimum price, I can arrange for a discount code to slash $10 off the price for no switches.

The microcontrollers have not arrived yet, so you'd still be waiting up until then. I am posting another update around Wednesday for the state of all orders.

[Scott Urueta]

The unassembled one I could probably push out the door quite a bit faster. I have as many unassembled orders as I have assembled orders and right now it still takes me a full day to assemble it the right way. The right way being testing all the keyswitches before moving onto soldering the matrix, then testing each key through the matrix before connecting the microcontroller, then testing it for use on the computer, etc.

I'll see if I can set up a video camera when assembling my first assembled one.

[Scott Urueta]

Oh and yes, I am definitely going to sell the plastics by themselves and I'll also be posting up all the source files to print for yourselves after I assemble this first set of boards and set up a github account.

Unfortunately, my modelling files are a bit of a mess right now because at the beginning, I started to make everything parametric so I could make quick adjustments to key spacing and such without having to redo any of the rest of the board and easily incorporate a different switch hole. But when I was rushing to have something working, I started to include more and more manually inputted numbers so now it is somewhat "stuck" in the shape it currently is in. I am likely going to be rewriting most of the openscad files.

[Scott Urueta]

Oh no, I didn't really think about stuff like accreditation and issues with international shipping didn't really cross my mind. I'm already no busy with figuring out what tax form I need and all kinds of other stuff.

Perhaps I will leave the bottom case open so to assemble the kit, you have to simply slide the parts into place and plug in one wire instead of having to solder every single component.

[Scott Urueta]

I've run out of switches, but my next batch of switches is going to take a while to arrive. I am ordering a much larger batch this time to act as a buffer so this shouldn't be an issue in the future.

This means that any order placed after the time of this post will be with the second batch of keyswitches.

[Jennifer Brien]

Great work, Scott!

Any chance of a scaled plan view?  I'd like to check how the finger positions compare to the Planck and the Atreus.

[Scott Urueta]

I'll be releasing the full source very soon, right after I finish up this initial batch of boards. I want to make sure I have the licensing done properly.

In the meantime, here is an image with the length and width displayed so you can get an idea of the size and finger positions:

[Jennifer Brien]

Thanks, Scott!

I've been playing around with various Velotype-ish orthographic ideas, and I think this may have potential.

[Scott Urueta]

I hope it does. The symmetrical and even keycap arrangement isn't just for fast development and simplicity's sake. It might also be fairly adaptable as a result, in terms of customized layout options.

[dragon788]

Hi Scott,
For your case have you mentioned it was parametric, have you looked at the work done on the Dactyl keyboard where the whole model generation was done programmatically to allow simple scaling for hand size or differing switch types?

[Paul Beaudet]

Wow Scott you really came out of nowhere on this one, not really following the list too closely for a few days come back a here a new writer is in full blown development.

What inspired you to jump in and start moving so fast? Are you learning steno?

The shallow V is neat, btw. 

[Mike S]

Your design sort of reminds me of the Treal TR. I might make something similar to it in the next few weeks after I have some time with the steno writer I'm already building:

http://www.galleryofshorthand.org/images/zoomengine/32.jpg

[Scott Urueta]

I have been trying to make it parametric, but the more I prototyped, the more I included numbers by hand and less through relative reference. Soon I'll have to go back and rewrite it to be fully parametric.

[Scott Urueta]

Thank you! I've been trying to learn steno on and off for months now on a regular keyboard and it has been a pain. I wanted (and still want) to purchase a Stenosaurus and after more than two years, I realized Josh Lifton will be eating his hat unless he does something magical in a few weeks. I figured I could assemble a usable learning tool in the meantime as long as I didn't want to make such a flawless and beautiful product that I end up drooling on it during assembly.

I almost had removed the V at one point when trying to reduce materials. Luckily, every time I tried removing it, the nub that would stick out for the vowel keys always looked awkward regardless of however smoothly I chamfered or bullnosed it. So I simply left the sharp angular look.

[Scott Urueta]

I forgot to mention I also purchased a Stenoboard, which was drastically better than any keyboard I tried Plover with and was the tipping point to where I wanted one with mechanical keyswitches like all my other keyboards.

[Harvey]

This looks really cool, but I can't help but think that the Cherry reds aren't going to be sensitive enough. If the Treal has keys with 15g actuation, I don't see how 35g would be sufficient for a steno machine. What is the actuation force for the custom keys the Stenosaurus will use? Maybe those would be better to try.

Also, forgive my ignorance, but why the extra keys on the left side of the board? Is it so that one could mirror the layout or something?

[Scott Urueta]

Apparently the Treal is similar to a combination of an Atreus and a Stenoboard, which I got inspiration from as I wanted something I could do both steno and general computer use (or play games on) with a relatively normal layout.

[Scott Urueta]

This board actually uses the same switches as on the Stenosaurus. Matias quiet linear switches simply happen to have red stems.

The extra keys on the left are for simplicity and adaptability. The allow me to mirror the left side of the model on the right and allow alternative custom layouts with fewer restrictions.

[Mike S]

I have a few emails out trying to price the cost of aluminum milled keys vs milling them myself vs buying an inexpensive mill that I can also use for other projects. 

I like the Stenosaurus but I wouldn't buy one. I'm far more interested in creating something on my own. I also don't think that the ppl over that project really understand marketing or the right demographic to market their machine to. 

--- I'm also in the same position that you are and feel like having the right hardware to learn Steno is very important and can make or break your experience. I also believe that most of us are so experienced with traditional keyboards that using one would make it difficult to learn Steno on because we would be commingling our old ingrained brain to hand movements with this new language and physical mapping that we are learning. 

[Mike S]

Can activation force be lowered via key caps that give the fingers more leverage?

[Theodore Morin]

CrowdSupply does pretty great with marketing, and I think the Stenosaurus will be well done. It just isn't being marketed yet.

On Dec 17, 2015 6:51 PM, "Mike S" <mwsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can activation force be lowered via key caps that give the fingers more leverage?

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[Scott Urueta]

The Stenosaurus is not released yet and has no real marketing yet, so any speculation about understanding its marketing isn't really applicable. I am not particularly aware of what demographics exist within the subset of people who would buy stenotype machines, but I know I'm not the only one dying to get my hands on a Stenosaurus, especially when considering the natural/sleek build quality and comparing the cost of proprietary machines.

To get more leverage for lowered force, you would need a lever. So the cap would need to have a long arm that presses the switch further down its length. Alternatively, you can lower the force by increasing the weight of the keycaps. I still believe swapping or stretching-and-clipping springs on the 35g gateron clears would be among the most straightforward ways to go.

[dragon788]

The tricky thing about spring weights is whether you are measuring activation weight or pressure required to fully depress. Korea apparently does the latter. There is a fellow that goes by Zeal on the geekhack forums that has created/commissioned custom gateron linear and tactile switches that can be lubed for super low activation force. I got some of the tactile and they are fantastic and I'm strongly considering the low weight linears for a steno project. I think it is Zealpc.net for his site.

[Scott Urueta]

Aren't Zealios relatively heavy? I have some middle-weight ones and they are require much more force than most everything else I've tried.

Unless there is a different switch from there that I haven't seen before. I'll go take a peek now.

[dragon788]

I ordered a bunch of the 67g tactile and they are heavier than MX browns for sure, but I also got the sampler and the 62g linear feels lighter than the MX red I have on a switch tester. I'm planning on doing my ErgoDox Infinity with the tactile switches but I'm strongly tempted to order some of the linears to use with a steno board.

[Mike S]

In your next iteration of the Soft Hruf, do you think that something like this http://techkeys.us/collections/accessories/products/the-enabler  would make wiring it a lot easier/faster? 

[Mike S]

I like the way it looks and seems really easy. Only 40 cents each...

http://i.imgur.com/RtS7tHl.jpg

[dragon788]

Overall going for a single PCB will probably be much cheaper than using individual ones as the 40 cents per PCB is on top of the 40+ cents per switch, plus probably 10-25 cents to a dollar or more per cap depending whether they are 3D printed or milled. Places like PCBwing and Seeed Studios will do PCBs for like $10-20 for 20 or more depending on the overall size of the PCB and how many layers are required. Software like KiCAD can make it much easier to lay them out as well.

I'm hoping to order a Soft/Hruf late December or early January and give it a test drive and overall I think this can only get better and better as Scott evolves it with feedback and a more streamlined process.

[Scott Urueta]

In addition to the cheaper cost of a single PCB, using small individual enablers would require many more soldering points and I suspect would slow me down.

I have two paths I can foresee at the moment. One option is to continue my original plan of trying to produce a self-contained unit with a battery and a Pi. The other option (which I find more appealing and smart), is to keep pushing the bridging-the-gap niche between keyboards and steno, retaining hardware that isn't much more complex than a normal keyboard might be. This path assumes that everyone would have some kind of computer everywhere, whether it is a laptop, a phone, or a tablet. It would have a bluetooth module and contain Plover on internal memory accessible as a flash drive. With bluetooth, it should also be easy to use with Brent Nesbitt's steno keyboard app.

I have the first unassembled soft hruf keyboard packed up and will be taking it to the post office today.

Oddly enough, the black filament arrived before the soldering iron, so I've had a chance to print a case and some caps in black. It is surprisingly gorgeous for something printed. The case as well as the sidewalls of the keycaps come out as glossy lines of black, but with the tops of the keycaps being a matte leathery-looking texture. I'll try grabbing a picture.

[Scott Urueta]

I can't seem to take a photo that actually does it justice, though.

[Steven Tammen]

Would it be possible for some of us early (assembled) orders to get the case and caps in the black filament, or should I have just been more patient at the outset?

[Scott Urueta]

It isn't a problem to reprint in black if you'd like. The filament is fairly inexpensive and I could use the case for myself or save it for other orders. You would just have to wait until I get back from visiting my family for the holidays.

[Steven Tammen]

If you're OK with that, I'll wait for it then. Black goes with my setup better... black computer, black monitor, black mouse, black keyboard, and now black stenotype!

Thanks!

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[Scott Urueta]

Sure thing. I'll add a note to your order so I don't mix things up.

[Emanuele Caruso]

Hi Scott,

I am honoured to see Stenoboard firmware (StenoFW) being put to good use for a new open source stenographic keyboard!!

I wish you the best!

Cheers,
Emanuele Caruso

stenoboard.com
utopen.com
openstenoblog.blogspot.com

Surprisingly, Stenoboard's firmware works nearly out-of-the-box, with only a handful of lines regarding letter arrangement and pinout needing to be changed. I might just package it with StenoFW, but I am planning on updating the NKRO mode to behave more like a normal keyboard. My thinking is that if I set it up with modifier keys and "layers" like a Planck (and with the form factor of a tiny Atreus), it could have a normal keyboard mode to potentially bridge the overlap of interest between the mechanical keyboard community and the Plover community. I know that one of my pains when trying to learn was the stage where stenotype was completely unusable for daily use and every time I'd want to practice, I'd have to completely swap out keyboards.

[Scott Urueta]

Thanks for arranging such legible code! It makes it easy to build upon.

When I upload the firmware when I get back from the holidays in a few days, would you mind taking a peek at it, if you don't mind? I read up on GPLv3 licencing and I am fairly sure I arranged it properly but it would be reassuring to know I did it right.

I included your original licensing information and copyright with an addendum containing the modifications in a short changelog which also explains that it is, as required, licensed under the identical GPLv3 license.

[Scott Urueta]

"would you mind taking a peek, if you don't mind?"

Ah, the wonders of holiday brainfart redundancies!

[dragon788]

One challenge you may encounter with BT Scott is that I don't know that anybody has solved the NKRO dilemma for it yet. Typically the bluetooth modules max out as 6KRO unless you toggle the SPP (serial port profile) and not all devices have support for that (I recall iOS and certain Android versions did not, not did Windows Mobile for a while).

Honestly I think just making it USB and letting users adapt it how they desire makes the most sense, as I've used my ErgoDox with my Android phone, Android tablet, Chromebook, laptop, desktop and can probably use it elsewhere with just a standard USB OTG (on the go) adapter. Sadly iOS doesn't have much support for these with their "card reader" accessories, but there are ways to trick them into accepting USB keyboards by going through a USB hub between the card reader (USB) and the keyboard.

[Scott Urueta]

Emanuele has already solved the NKRO issue by storing all the keys that have been pressed and then when all the keys are released, it sends out a quick stream of all the keys as if you arpeggiated it faster than any human could. Or at least that is what it appears to do from looking at the NKRO-mode code. This is the reason why I am writing a second mode to act as a normal keyboard if you do not intend to use it with steno.

The bluetooth will be for later regardless. I want to finish polishing up the current design into something that I know will be great (especially with keycap material since PLA is not particularly suited for that) before I implement any more features. The fact that the currently released version has been tested to work on my phone with an OTG cable is already pretty great to me. The original Stenoboard does as well and the split form factor is good for wearables. I have been messing around with attaching clips to the Stenoboard I bought so that I can slide the clips onto my pants pocket and it is pretty usable with a phone.