Thinking about creating an new Java Web Framework based on Play!Framework v1

[green]

Hello buddies,

I'm writting to you because you showed your interesting in Play!Framework v1.x and or rythm template engine in some of the emails in my inbox. If this is not the case, please accept my appologize and ignore this mail.

As we know Play team is leaving v1.x and heading to the controversial v2.x. It's almost one years and I still can't give up my love to v1.x and catch up to play2. I have more intention to create an new web framework with more play1 spirit than play2. But I am not very certain if this is a good idea or a trap. I've written something in my blog about that. Can I invite you to take a look and comments are very welcome:

http://software-lgl.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/thinking-about-creating-new-java-web.html

Cheers,

Green

[Raphael André Bauer]

Hi Green,


I totally agree with your views. I don't necessarily think that Play
2 is bad or anything - it is just different. And as a Java guy (my
fault) Play 2 is just not my piece of cake. A purely personal choice.
And Play 2 has advantages - but it just doesn't seem right for me. And
Play1 will fade away. And of course Play 1 is great - but sometimes I
have other opinions how stuff should work (I don't like bytecode
enhancement, but I really like Guice... and so on).

That was the reason to create Ninja Framework some months ago (ok -
there were other reasons, too [1])
http://www.ninjaframework.org/

Ninja is fully functional and already used in several not yet public
projects. The feedback from the teams is really positive.


Please have a look and feel free to comment :) Feedback is well appreciated!


Cheers,

Raphael for the Ninjas

[1] http://ars-machina.raphaelbauer.com/2012/08/post-mortem-play-2-202.html


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[Tom Carchrae]

So many frameworks, so little time!  :)

Start yet a new framework?  I don't know.  I recall some time ago an announcement that Play 1.x would be more community driven, but whoever was taking charge of that appears to have disappeared.   My vote for continued development/work would be more community driven development.  I know there are a few original people who have good intents to push out 1.3 but I suspect they are getting overloaded with other work and priorities.  

What is needed?  Someone to organize the roadmap and feature development, coordinate development and code-reviews with volunteers, and push toward a release date.

As for feedback on changes:  I like Play 1.x and there is really only one (big ugly) wart I don't like which is all the bytecode enhancement around controller method invocation that passes all the local variables to the next method.  I vaguely recall there is an annotation to avoid that (might be wrong and it is only a disable of binding, mentioned after the famous github hack), but that is one part I don't like - my main reason is that I don't like implicit passing of parameters.  

The other thing I wish is that more of the core functionality was modular.  Not a huge pain, as there are quite a few override points.  Some stuff is annoying though, like not being able to configure Netty without changing the framework source code (an easy-ish fix as well to provide an override method there).

Tom

[green]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your comment. I am quite surprised that you don't like the local variable enhancement of controller methods. Think about the following code:

public static void x() {

   Foo foo = ...

   Bar bar = ..

   render(foo, bar);

}

as compared to 

public static void x() {

   Foo foo = ...

   Bar bar = ..

   renderArgs.put("foo", foo);

   renderArgs.put("bar", bar);

   render();

}

I don't see anything wrong with the first style. On the contrary I think the local variable name enhancement demonstrates the core spirit of Play v1, that is to provide an unobstrusive, natural and easy way to program. And I love it.

Bless Play v1.

[Robert Bakker]

 

Hi Green,

We're a java-shop running into similar issues - Play 1.x works really well for us, but now it seems to have been discarded, it makes it a bit of a risk for us to keep using it. We've been closely following the development of play 2.x but I'm still not convinced that moving to it is a good idea. It seems all very scala oriented and the mantra seems to have  changed from "developer experience first" to "type safety first".

So giving play 1.x a second live would be great. For us it would be best if development  on play 1.x would be continued from where it is now - I don't think that I would opt to use a framework that looks like play 1.x, but is a complete rewrite, since it'll take a massive amount of effort to get it in the (stable) state that play 1.x now is - you'll need a significant community to accomplish that. Also a number of changes you propose, such as  CRUD,ebean,python would not have any added value to what we currently do.

I think it would be best to open a dialog with the play! devs to see if there are possibilities to get the development going again in the current community (preferred) or that they want to officially completely drop it, and possibly hand it of to a new group that wants to continue development. Creating just a fork will cause a lot of confusion I think. Either way I would be willing to contribute.

regards,

Robert

 

[green]

Hey Robert,

I understood your concern. However I don't think it is possible to urge play core team to continue on play 1.x other than maintenance as they promised, and even maintenance activity looks like ceased recently. Neither can I see they have any intention to hand the 1.x to an new team.

As you said play 1.x is quite stable and we could live on it for a certain amount of time, say 1 or at most 2 years. What I am thinking is where are we 2 years after. And at the moment I don't see any framework can fill the gap left by play 1.x. That's why I propose an new web framework, inherits play 1.x's spirit. CRUD, ebean and python are just part of things I want to change. There are also some core stuff I think needs improvement, routing and action invocation as I mentioned in the blog are 2 very core features, I am also thinking of async and non-blocking IO, here jActor and Netty 4 come into my mind.

Anyway let's see how it goes.

Cheers,

Green

 

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[Ivan San José García]

I agree with you in all, but I don't think that fork Play! 1.x code is the right way. I think, if anyone have time, and experience, could take the lead of Play! 1.x real branch, manage the code, the pull requests, etc.

I think if anyone say that to Guillaume and his team, they probably will be very happy to do it, because, right now, Play! 1.x is only a charge for them.

2012/12/9 green <green...@gmail.com>

[赵普明]

在 2012年12月10日星期一UTC+8下午3时43分16秒，Ivan San José García写道：

I agree with you in all, but I don't think that fork Play! 1.x code is the right way. I think, if anyone have time, and experience, could take the lead of Play! 1.x real branch, manage the code, the pull requests, etc.

I think if anyone say that to Guillaume and his team, they probably will be very happy to do it, because, right now, Play! 1.x is only a charge for them.

 

It would be great if they are willing to release the privileges and responsibility to the community.

[Rakesh Waghela]

I am ready to donate playframework.net domain for Play 1 community !

Play one is good whatever changes we make to play one should not break it's supporting ecosystem, for example Play one is supported on Heroku , it has a code-commit-run workflow supported for Play One. If that constraint is addressed Any change and continuous community support on top of Play One would be awesome to grow and keep this framework alive ! :)

[Tom Carchrae]

Hi Green,

You are right - that kind of coding is convenient and I use it all the
time. I would be happier if the magic was just made more explicit,
like "render(args(foo,bar))" - where the args method creates the map.
The thing that gets me off guard is how much magic happens and, unless
you trace through the Play code - you don't realize it. This got a
team I was working with into quick a bit of trouble initially -
controllers are not at all typical Java classes. Much of that magic
could be clearer by adhering to the 'least surprise' principle. To
anyone new to Play 1.x, I think the tutorial should say, "OK, now you
think you've got it, trace the code and see what is actually going
on".

Don't get me wrong - I am not an XML or interface nut who wants crap
loads of declaration. I care deeply about DRY coding - but I also
think that strong typing is one of the strengths and not a hindrance.
I'd love to work adding some support for compiled templates that do
type/method checking (rather than runtime template errors). If you
wanted all the fun/chaos of a dynamic language, you'd be using
node/ruby.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Tom

[Tom Carchrae]

I have created a uservoice account to capture/vote on stuff you'd like
to evolve/improve in Play 1.x :

http://playframework1.uservoice.com/

I'll go add some things that I'd like to see supported. I think it
would be useful to see if there is any consensus on direction.

The rest of this email is about my general feeling w.r.t. future
development. So, I suggest you stop reading now, go create/vote your
features, and then come back and read the rest. Otherwise, I might
bore you to sleep/apathy! So, stop reading this now.

To the credit of the Play team, while I may complain about some
things, I don't find that I am often blocked by Play in my
development. Part of this is my appreciation for what the framework
should/should not do. If it was the the true swiss army knife, it
might wash my socks, butter my toast, and do everything else I need.
But I don't really treat it like that. In some respects, I feel some
module developers went overboard and tied some things much too closely
into the framework. Some modules are awful (community voting and
review of modules should be a high priority).

For me, the most important thing for a framework is that it is modular
and you can use what you need (easily) and not have to include a ton
of stuff you don't need. LIkewise, if possible, you should be able to
take parts of the framework and use them elsewhere. I'd be surprised
if there was any play developer who has not shaken their fist when
they realized they can't use their Play models.* classes outside of
Play. To me, those are things that are broken and need improving.

Maybe it is a philosophical argument; framework versus library. Maybe
I am arguing that I would like PlayLibrary - not PlayFramework. (but
you aren't supposed to Play in a library :) ).

I'm kind of interested in making Play 1.x so modular, that we could
actually take code right over to Play 2.x. For Play 2.x, I would like
to be able to use the base without SBT (I have posted about this a few
times) and just use Play 2.x as a static JAR. My understanding thus
far is Play 2.x is actually capable of doing this - the only main
piece of work is the routes (so we could even Play 1.x routes).

Anyway, that is enough opinion and hand waving for today. My main
issue at the moment is that my time/effort is dictated by need. Since
Play 1.x issues are not burning, I end up pouring my effort into
different projects.

Tom

[green]

hmm... render(args(foo,bar)) just moved the magic around render() interface to around args() interface. Can't see much differences. And obviously it is not cleaner to me than render(foo, bar).

I am not in fond of dynamic language, neither do I want to go strictly type-safe at every where like play 2 does. I think play 1 reach a good balance that sacrifice a little bit of typesafing and deliver a great developer experience.

[Håkon Lindquist]

First of all, thank you for supporting the Play 1 framework with quality modules, Green! My initial thought was that it would be great with a fork of Play 1.* (or a remake if you really think you can pull that off) and it would be great if you could lead it. I also agree with others here that Play 2 is not the type safe framework built by and for web-developers as Play introduced itself as. I see Play 2 as a Scala framework married to a Scala stack and company (I know it attempts to bring in Java also). Something they needed to do for the money as stated by them. I will be happy to move over to Scala and Play 2 (I love type safety) when I see that it`s nearing the user friendliness and dev speed of Play 1, and most likely I think that will happen. I think a bit of ice in the stomach would do ourselves some good here and support the Play 1 Framework by keeping this group alive and keeping the modules updated. Play 1 feels like a finished product to me, though I know it misses stuff I don`t yet know I want, but that`s not a must have for me. Do most of you think Play 2 will be getting close to Play 1 in say 2-3 years with regards to speed and dev friendliness? I see the Scala language becoming speedier and the Play team probably isn`t focused that much on tech anymore and will have time time for refining the interfaces to the framework. That`s why I also fear that this could be a trap in terms of effort because those years will come fast.

I will happily sit it out with Play 1 for a couple of years at least, but a lot of you aren`t that content probably. Though thinking that it has some kind of expiry date that will cause it to suddenly break is surely a mistake.

[Tom Carchrae]

So far, myself and Green are the only ones who've added/voted on any
Play 1.x developments:
https://playframework1.uservoice.com/forums/187401-general

I actually agree with the current Play 1.x lock-down on big changes.
IMHO it is critical to retain support for previous versions. Further,
I think most of the improvements can be done as enhancements inside
the current framework. If not, then a really strong argument has to
be made to break API/compatibility - not just because you don't
appreciate/understand/like/agree with the current design.

Tom

[Jason Shim]

+1.

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Green, I'm just curious for the decision you have taken on this plan!! (SCR)

[green]

Hi I am still working heavily on rythm-engine at the moment. Trying to get it released.

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 8:06 PM, R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah <ng4rrj...@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Green, I'm just curious for the decision you have taken on this plan!! (SCR)

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[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

Thanks Green for the update.

[Robert Bakker]

Hi,

My opinion still is that writing a new framework is a bit too ambitious. 

I have been accepted to help out with managing play 1.x, so if you have any issues you want to be fixed (which would classify as maintenance) , just create a ticket and pull request.

We will check it out and merge it if ok. A 1.3 release is still in the pipeline.

regards,

Robert

[green]

Sounds great!

My tickets:

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1614-calling-to-plugins-beforeactioninvocation-and-afteractioninvocation-should-be-symmetric

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1610-exception-thrown-out-from-before-or-after-methods-not-catched-by-catch-methods

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1604-support-render-json-with-multiple-objects-in-playmvccontroller

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1605-propose-nojsonexpose-annotation-to-make-renderjsoners-life-better

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1603-support-default-jsonserializer-in-playmvccontroller

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1580-playexceptionscacheexception-should-implement-sourceattachment

https://play.lighthouseapp.com/projects/57987/tickets/1089-duplicate-before-handler

No pull requests, but I have put into the reference implementation code (which is used in my play fork for long time)

Cheers,

Green

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[François Gilbert]

Hi Green,

Just a quick message to say thank you for all your work :)

I use your morphia module and it works like a charm.

I'm thinking to use your playrythm module too.

I think that it would be great to see you as a play 1.x core developer/leader !

Cheers,

François. 

[green]

Hi François. 

Thanks for your good words. Consider play core team closed the updates to 1.x modules, I guess it is time for me to maintain my own play1 version and I will probably create a web site to make it public available. However this won't happen very soon. I am now working hard to push rythm-engine (not play-rythm) to R1.0,

there are huge amount of work on testing/documentation and sample applications left.

Maintaining existing play1.x will be a medium-term goal. If possible I still want to plan to create an new framework as talked in the subject of this mail loop.

Cheers,

Green

--

[François]

Hi Green,

Sorry for the late response.

"Consider play core team closed the updates to 1.x modules" … I'm quite astonished ?!  it's strange … why they don't want contributions anymore ?

"there are huge amount of work on testing/documentation and sample applications left." thanks for that and good courage to you.

"Maintaining existing play1.x will be a medium-term goal. If possible I still want to plan to create an new framework as talked in the subject of this mail loop."

I 've read your blog post … imho, the problem is that with play 1 we have simplicity, but i'm agree with the vision of play 2 which is, i think, "the web is becoming an event driven Web" and async+distributed (akka) ( http://console-demo.typesafe.com/de...@typesafe.com/Demo/ ) 

So i think that the challenge of creating a new framework will be to mix together those 2 things : simplicity & futur of the web.

Cheers,

François.

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Hi,

I've been following this thread for a while with great interest, and I've been in contact with Robert and Green to discuss the options for continued Play 1 development. Being subtile isn't one of my strongest points, so I'n not going to try. If I offend people : My apologies, I'm in no way targeting people in specific.

First, we need to get some facts straight : 

1) 

Play 2 is a whole different beast then 1. They share the name, but have different goals and target a different audience. To quote Guillaume : 

"
we want to have the best Web

framework in 2 years, ready for real-time Web applications, supporting
many JVM languages, able to scale to ten of thousands of concurrent
users, we have to start now.

"

and the've done a great job. Play 1 was developed with a different set of goals : Easy web development. No Scala, no Akka, no realtime components.

Different people, different needs. If Play 2 is the right thing for you : Fine, then use Play 2. However, it isn't right for everyone, and different discussion already shows that.

2) 

Play 1 is a great framework, thanks to people like Guillaume, Nicolas and Morten who made it so. Play 1 development has practically come to a halt, with me and Robert the only one been active lately. I'm one of the guys that don't use stuff they don't understand. And for now, learning language #6 or so isn't on my priority list.

I've convinced Play 1 still has a future. It has unique properties that make it a viable option for many developers.

3)

Play 1.3.[0-9] will be the last release. Modules are in read-only mode, and the codebase has been put in maintenance mode. The current core devs have no intention to change that. Maintenance means no new features, bug-fix only. If you ask me, this usually means the end of a project.

Now the non-facts parts, and so my personal opinion.

- I think Play 1 is alive and kicking. Play 2 is not for me, and has a strong focus on Scala. While the official point is that they support both, all points to the primary focus being Scala.

- Play 1 is abandoned by Typesafe (and Play 1 core devs, of whatever I should call them) if you ask me. Play 1 modules (playframework.org/modules) is read-only, Play 1 stuff disappeared from the website, and core devs commits went down.

I've talked to people, and I was basically told : Fork it. That is also my main reason for this post : I want to know if the Play 1 community is alive and

kicking enough to make a fork viable. For a fork to succeed, we need a large enough community to do all the things that are needed, and keep developent active. That takes time, and without enough time (read : contributors) the fork will fail.

I have no idea if there is enough demand for Play 1 development so that a fork will succeed.

This also comes with a request : A questionnaire aka survey. Goals are : 

- Tell you what has been talked about (for part in private between me, Robert and Green)

- Tell you what at least I want in the future with Play 1

- Tell the community that we plan to fork

My request : Fill it in. It IS important if you ask me. As many of you as possible, and tell / notify others of the existence of this thread / post and the questionnaire.

I'll post the results in the play 1 group, and also on my page : http://www.palsenberg.com

If there is enough support from the community I'll initiate the fork.

Now, for my own involvement : 

- I'll arrange a new web site . A plus if you own a company that does websites and webshops :-)

- I'll migrate Lighthouse to Github. The Github organisation is created, so is the repo.

- Steady time investment. There are nice features I would really like incorporated into the framework.

- I'll make the current Play 1 modules dir available again

- I'll donate a server and a bunch of domain names

For now, nothing is certain, not even that the fork will take place. I'm just a fast guy :-)

I hope at the end that Typesafe will, if the project will become alive again, support an announcement on the current Play website. It would make things

easier.

I certainly would like to make this project a success, and hope that more will follow...

If you got questions : Post them in this group. or send then to me in an e-mail: igmar at palsenberg dot com.

I'm in GMT+2, so for the next 8 ours I'll be in bed :-)

Regards,

   Igmar

[Dominik Dorn]

hmm.. so where is the questionnaire to fill out?  

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[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

This also comes with a request : A questionnaire aka survey. Goals are : 

- Tell you what has been talked about (for part in private between me, Robert and Green)

- Tell you what at least I want in the future with Play 1

- Tell the community that we plan to fork

My request : Fill it in. It IS important if you ask me. As many of you as possible, and tell / notify others of the existence of this thread / post and the questionnaire.

Damn, forgot the link. The questionnaire is at https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TS6FFKJ

regards,

Igmar

[Dominik Dorn]

hmm... it would be nice if you could change the options to english.. "Volg.", "Vor." and "gereed." don't mean anything to me.

regards,

Igmar

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[Brainztorm]

thanks for this Igmar.

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[Joe Cincotta]

Hi all. I'm Joe and I run Pixolut, we are an agency based in Sydney Australia and the infamous Green works here.
Green brought to my attention the desire of some members of the community to 'revive' the 1.x Play platform and provide community driven support for it.

As an organization we have made a considerable investment in the Play 1 platform and some of Green's extensions to it such as Rythm/Rythm-Play, Greenscript and Morphia-Play.
I also see that Play2 does not fulfill our needs in a similar way many others in this group have expressed.

Given this, Pixolut would be willing to sponsor an 'official' project fork, provide hosting and support the community in general.

I see a thriving community with Play 1.x that has essentially been shunned from the official authors and believe it should be supported in any way possible as it is *really* a very different product from the what has been called version 2.

[green]

Wow wow! Let's give Joe a long round of applause. I think with Joe's support and the efforts from Igmar, Robert and all others in the community we could give Play 1.x an new spring!

[Sojin]

Really great to see this is reviving, thanks everyone.

We are developing an application in Play 1.2.x, but its sad to see its getting into a maintenance mode. Although it covers most of the functionality (for the time being) what we require in its status quo, it might not catchup as the web evolves esp, in the async, et el. We have made some customization to the Play core. Had it been in Scala, it wouldn't have happened.

As Igmare rightly said, we are also not in state to master another language, we have a solution to focus and roll out. 1.2.x is helping us tremendously in that front.
Coming from Java and Python background we would definitely contribute in every way we can.

Would really like to see this taking off.

By the way 'IonStorm' sound great.

-Soj

[Joe Cincotta]

Some thoughts on names:

I understand Typesafe do not want the use of the name "Play" however,  could we use variations of the name? Foreplay? Player One? Just so there is some kind of conceptual correlation to the origin of the fork? Not sure if we are pushing the friendship there - but a thought.

Considerations for IonStorm from an advertising/marketing perspective:

• >2 syllables = harder to remember
• Does it impute the right attributes of the platform to be taken seriously?
  Note: I also had reservations on the name "Play!" BTW -
  
• consider other players "Ruby on Rails" "Groovy on Grails" "Spring" names impart fun, lightness, and a sense of hip-and-cool ... essential attributes to attract developers to the platform and attributes of using the platforms themselves. Ion Storm... not so much.

I hope I'm not offending anyone by mentioning the name thing, but it is important to consider the implications of a name.

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[Rakesh Waghela]

I have registered playframework.net domain name long time back when play framework was not so popular. I am willing to donate that domain name if there is a need for community to keep identity as Play One. Now The Framework is in general known as Play One only.

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Hi Joe,

Thanx for you suppoort in the first place. 

I understand Typesafe do not want the use of the name "Play" however,  could we use variations of the name? Foreplay? Player One? Just so there is some kind of conceptual correlation to the origin of the fork? Not sure if we are pushing the friendship there - but a thought.

Considerations for IonStorm from an advertising/marketing perspective:

• >2 syllables = harder to remember
• Does it impute the right attributes of the platform to be taken seriously?
  Note: I also had reservations on the name "Play!" BTW -
  
• consider other players "Ruby on Rails" "Groovy on Grails" "Spring" names impart fun, lightness, and a sense of hip-and-cool ... essential attributes to attract developers to the platform and attributes of using the platforms themselves. Ion Storm... not so much.

I hope I'm not offending anyone by mentioning the name thing, but it is important to consider the implications of a name.

17 surveys filled out, and counting. I'm gonna spam the other playgroups today :)

To go into you point of view on the name : You're right. Short, attractive names however are rare these days. We can call it "Java on Rails", but that might not cut it. It's also to common if you ask me.

We can rule out names with "Play" in them : I don't want to interfere with Play 2 in any way. It's a new project, new team, new goals, and if you ask me, that comes with a new name. I've chosen IonStorm for a number of reasons : 

- It's not used in something else AFAIK.

- I have the domein names under my control

- It's a nice natural event : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection

Our graphics design can probably make something nice of it.

Other suggestions for the name are of course more then welcome. I'll keep using the name until something else comes up.

Regards,

Igmar

[Ivan San José García]

I completed the survey.

I agree with you in almost all, but also I liked the Guillaume's team policy regarding accepting pull requests (obviously I'm talking before Play! 2 born). I mean that not all people are able to contribute to framework core code, otherwise the code will be a nightmare, and I think the actual code base of Play! 1.x is very clean and understandable.

I want to add that I'm still using the Play! 1.2.x branch, even in new projects, and I don't think Play! 1.x is death. For me it is simply perfect, and fits with all my requirements. Perhaps I miss a working websocket implementation or any kind of integration with some framework like Atmosphere. So I think Websocket support should be in the roadmap if a new fork will be created.

2013/2/21 Brainztorm <brain...@gmail.com>

[Joe Cincotta]

I still like Foreplay :) but maybe it gives the wrong impression (it is a very fun Framework though!) but I am guessing foreplay.com is *not* available - however foreplayframework is :) 

We have some domains that can be used:

applii 

liteengine

but, realistically - let's find a name the community thinks resonates with the lightweight, fun and clean objective of the framework and choose it.

 

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[Niko]

Hello together,

Thanks a lot, Igmar, for bringing up such a coherent agenda how to proceed with Play! 1, it is very appreciated that you care and bring up the survey.

Coming from a main-stream Java background (Spring MVC) and also having used Grails for some smaller projects I "switched" to Play! in autumn 2010 and guess what... I still use it nowadays on new projects, because my main focus is really on being productive and finding a fast and elegant solution for the customer. Here is a testimonial on Play! I wrote some days back:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/play-framework/8D6wL2Q22s0

Said that, I would be very happy to dedicate some time (as my limited time allows) to contribute as whatever turns out to be right to keep Play! One rolling.

Cheers,

Niko

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Hi,

On Friday, February 22, 2013 8:33:26 AM UTC+1, Ivan San José García wrote:

I completed the survey.

Thanx. 

 

I agree with you in almost all, but also I liked the Guillaume's team policy regarding accepting pull requests (obviously I'm talking before Play! 2 born). I mean that not all people are able to contribute to framework core code, otherwise the code will be a nightmare, and I think the actual code base of Play! 1.x is very clean and understandable.

I have no intention of doing it another way. That's the way we work internally in our company, and that's also the way Robert and I work. Code quality is important to me.

 

I want to add that I'm still using the Play! 1.2.x branch, even in new projects, and I don't think Play! 1.x is death. For me it is simply perfect, and fits with all my requirements. Perhaps I miss a working websocket implementation or any kind of integration with some framework like Atmosphere. So I think Websocket support should be in the roadmap if a new fork will be created.

I'll add that.

Igmar

 

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Hi,

On Friday, February 22, 2013 8:41:51 AM UTC+1, Joe Cincotta wrote:

I still like Foreplay :) but maybe it gives the wrong impression (it is a very fun Framework though!) but I am guessing foreplay.com is *not* available - however foreplayframework is :) 

We have some domains that can be used:

applii 

liteengine

but, realistically - let's find a name the community thinks resonates with the lightweight, fun and clean objective of the framework and choose it.

Any suggestions on how to proceed ? Naming is usually something a large group hardly ever agrees on in my experience. 

I can rename the organisation and repo, so that isn't the problem.

Regards,

Igmar

[Ben Verbeken]

Considerations for IonStorm from an advertising/marketing perspective:

• >2 syllables = harder to remember
• Does it impute the right attributes of the platform to be taken seriously?
  Note: I also had reservations on the name "Play!" BTW -
  
• consider other players "Ruby on Rails" "Groovy on Grails" "Spring" names impart fun, lightness, and a sense of hip-and-cool ... essential attributes to attract developers to the platform and attributes of using the platforms themselves. Ion Storm... not so much.

 

Another point to consider here is that the @ionstorm twitter account is not free.  

Regards,

Ben

[Igmar Palsenberg | JDI internet professionals]

> Another point to consider here is that the @ionstorm twitter account is not free.

Correct. Neither is ion_storm. ionstorm_ is, and I've claimed that one. It's something I can live with, if we use a shorter name we probably will
run into the same issue.


Regards,


Igmar

[green]

what about poneframework or ploneframework ?

[Sven Kubiak]

IMHO this sounds to familiar with plone...

http://plone.org/

[Ben Verbeken]

or Replay? 

the idea isn't mine (don't remember where I heard/read it) but I like it ;) 

[Joe Cincotta]

Plone is a cms for zope. 

Ideas like that:

Plastiq

Capone 

Pony

Sent from my Commodore 64

[Joe Cincotta]

Like

Sent from my Commodore 64

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

On Friday, February 22, 2013 11:53:33 AM UTC+1, Ben Verbeken wrote:

or Replay?

We should rule out everything with the name "Play" in it. Replay is also a large international brand, and while we aren't into clothing,

all names are probably taken. The names that are not are under trademark protection.

Igmar 

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Plastiq 

Capone 

Pony

All TLD's taken. I don't like Pony and Capone myself.

Igmar 

[Lars Aaberg]

What about javasteroids or javaoids  (as in "java on steroids") ?

Seems like both domains are free

On Friday, December 7, 2012 2:13:23 AM UTC+1, greenlaw110 wrote:

Hello buddies,

I'm writting to you because you showed your interesting in Play!Framework v1.x and or rythm template engine in some of the emails in my inbox. If this is not the case, please accept my appologize and ignore this mail.

As we know Play team is leaving v1.x and heading to the controversial v2.x. It's almost one years and I still can't give up my love to v1.x and catch up to play2. I have more intention to create an new web framework with more play1 spirit than play2. But I am not very certain if this is a good idea or a trap. I've written something in my blog about that. Can I invite you to take a look and comments are very welcome:

http://software-lgl.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/thinking-about-creating-new-java-web.html

Cheers,

Green

[Joe Cincotta]

What about just "ion framework"? 

Sent from my Commodore 64

--

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

Joe,

> What about just "ion framework"? 

Excellent name. The .com is taken, I just registered the rest :-)

Can we agree on this ? If yes, I'll commit a patch to rebrand it.

Instead of "play", we then use "ion" as the cli name.

Igmar

[Lars Aaberg]

+1 for Ion framework

[i.pals...@jdi.nl]

On Friday, February 22, 2013 12:35:34 PM UTC+1, Lars Aaberg wrote:

+1 for Ion framework

I really like the name :-) +1 for ion framework for me to.

Igmar

[Florian Gutmann]

Like the name too, but googling ion-framework leads to this first result.

http://code.google.com/p/ion-framework/

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[Igmar Palsenberg | JDI internet professionals]

> Like the name too, but googling ion-framework leads to this first result.
>
> http://code.google.com/p/ion-framework/

It looks dead to me.


Igmar

[Florian Gutmann]

Yes, you're right. It doesn't seem to have started ever.

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

On Friday, 22 February 2013 15:57:34 UTC+5:30, greenlaw110 wrote:

what about poneframework or ploneframework ?

     I'm sorry, if I missed any threads. But,  why not Play One (like now)?  The name "play" is well marketed already. So, it will sell easily:-)

[Igmar Palsenberg | JDI internet professionals]

> I'm sorry, if I missed any threads. But, why not Play One (like now)? The name "play" is well marketed already. So, it will sell easily:-)
>

Because it will cause confusion, and Typesafe probably won't allow it.

New project, new targets, new name if you ask me.



Igmar

[R. Rajesh Jeba Anbiah]

         True, but just remember that even _they_ had to use "play" for v2--even though it's a different beast.

[Igmar Palsenberg | JDI internet professionals]

New project, new targets, new name if you ask me.

         True, but just remember that even _they_ had to use "play" for v2--even though it's a different beast.

True, but they own the name, we don't.

Igmar

[Robert Bakker]

some inspiration

spell framework (although it os apparently something to help autists ;-))

reload framework

cheers,

Robert

[Sojin]

Its better if the new name doesn't associate with 'play' in any way, else it might lead confusion for new comers. Also its good to avoid 'play' name getting linger on.
New identity and new leads is what it needs.

"ion framework" sounds smooth. The one in google code looks like a place holder.

or What about "Rion framework" or even "Lemon framework" ?

[Tom Carchrae]

Oh name games.  So much fun, but really who cares as long as it is easy to google (and Play already sucked for that)

Here's my spin:  "Play Won!"  :)

[Wayne Ellis]

+1 for ion framework for me too! (although being slightly pedantic, I think it looks a lot nicer in lowercase, rather than an uppercase i. 

[green]

Hello everyone,

It's almost four years since I've created this thread, I am happy to share with you guys my latest work: ActFramework

Please have a look at this blog: http://software-lgl.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/introduce-to-actframework-new-java-mvc.html

Play around with some demo applications at https://github.com/actframework/act-demo-apps/ or the app I've created in the actframework session happened last Wed at the Sydney JVM meetup

Have a glance of the documentation at https://github.com/actframework/act-doc/blob/master/en/index.md

And let me know your thoughts

Happy coding!

Green