Can you identify this substance?

[Regi Hedahl]

I tuned a Pearl River upright and when I opened the cover, I noticed this can of worms.  Someone sprayed something on the tuning pins that caused the pins to become very loose.  There were pins that would not hold so I squirted some CA glue but it made just a minimal difference.  Someone has already tried pounding in some of the pins but those pins tended to be the loosest.

Also, the substance has migrated into many coiled strings and deadened them.  Could the horrible substance be WD-40?

Here's a video.

https://youtu.be/teLsfNFCAX8

That rubber band was also a curious sight.  I'll let you know if you guess correct what that was for.

Regi Hedahl

[David Kroenlein]

Probly ballistrol lol!

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

[David Kroenlein]

Wow! That low bass is toast!!

[tnr...@aol.com]

Regi

Did you ask the customer if the previous tuner laid the piano on its back?  It looks like somebody tried to "loosen" the pins by adding a lubricant to the pins. Some of it apparently spilled overo the dampers.

What a can of worms. Are you planning to restring/repin the bass?

Wim

[Regi Hedahl]

Wim,

I would not be inclined to take the chance of restringing/repinning this piano without replacing the pinblock.

Regi

[Ron Nossaman]

On 3/29/2016 3:59 PM, Regi Hedahl wrote:
> I tuned a Pearl River upright and when I opened the cover, I noticed
> this can of worms. Someone sprayed something on the tuning pins that
> caused the pins to become very loose. There were pins that would not
> hold so I squirted some CA glue but it made just a minimal difference.
> Someone has already tried pounding in some of the pins but those pins
> tended to be the loosest.
>
> Also, the substance has migrated into many coiled strings and deadened
> them. Could the horrible substance be WD-40?

It could, or any number of other things. What's the difference what it
is? The piano is trashed. You aren't going to save the block, and can
only look bad trying. Immediate full disclosure of irreversible piano
death advised.

> Here's a video.
> https://youtu.be/teLsfNFCAX8
>
> That rubber band was also a curious sight. I'll let you know if you
> guess correct what that was for.

So the wedge damper would "work" on half a bichord?
Ron N

[Joseph Garrett]

Looks like Pin-Tite to me. Ah yes, the all-purpose Rubber Band!<G>

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: David Kroenlein
Sent: Mar 29, 2016 2:01 PM
To: "pian...@googlegroups.com"
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Can you identify this substance?

Probly ballistrol lol!

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016, Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com> wrote:

I tuned a Pearl River upright and when I opened the cover, I noticed this can of worms.  Someone sprayed something on the tuning pins that caused the pins to become very loose.  There were pins that would not hold so I squirted some CA glue but it made just a minimal difference.  Someone has already tried pounding in some of the pins but those pins tended to be the loosest.

Also, the substance has migrated into many coiled strings and deadened them.  Could the horrible substance be WD-40?

Here's a video.

https://youtu.be/teLsfNFCAX8

That rubber band was also a curious sight.  I'll let you know if you guess correct what that was for.

Regi Hedahl

--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
gpianoworks.com

[Joseph Garrett]

Why bother! It's a Chinese PSO/POS! Just hunt down the previous tech and hand him/her a live grenade and walk off.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: tnrwim via pianotech
Sent: Mar 29, 2016 2:18 PM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Can you identify this substance?

Regi

Did you ask the customer if the previous tuner laid the piano on its back?  It looks like somebody tried to "loosen" the pins by adding a lubricant to the pins. Some of it apparently spilled overo the dampers.

What a can of worms. Are you planning to restring/repin the bass?

Wim

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com>
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 29, 2016 10:59 am

Subject: [pianotech] Can you identify this substance?

I tuned a Pearl River upright and when I opened the cover, I noticed this can of worms.  Someone sprayed something on the tuning pins that caused the pins to become very loose.  There were pins that would not hold so I squirted some CA glue but it made just a minimal difference.  Someone has already tried pounding in some of the pins but those pins tended to be the loosest.

Also, the substance has migrated into many coiled strings and deadened them.  Could the horrible substance be WD-40?

Here's a video.

https://youtu.be/teLsfNFCAX8

That rubber band was also a curious sight.  I'll let you know if you guess correct what that was for.

Regi Hedahl

[John Formsma]

You know, I think an appropriate fluids test is appropriate for this one. Fire up a propane torch and time how long it takes the bottom board to catch fire. Then move the torch to the top of the piano and try one of those dark spots. If it catches fire more quickly there, it was WD-40. If not, it still needed to be burned. ;-)

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[Regi Hedahl]

I sure hope whoever is doing this kind of destruction would STOP! The pins can be excessively tight on these pianos but you just deal with it. I have a Keyes impact lever with the huge weight at the end just for these pianos with crazy tight pins.

Regi

[justpianos]

Holding broken length of bass string out of the way.

Sent from my Samsung device

-------- Original message --------
From: Regi Hedahl <piano...@gmail.com>
Date: 30/03/2016 7:59 am (GMT+10:00)
To: pianotech <pian...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [pianotech] Can you identify this substance?

I tuned a Pearl River upright and when I opened the cover, I noticed this can of worms.  Someone sprayed something on the tuning pins that caused the pins to become very loose.  There were pins that would not hold so I squirted some CA glue but it made just a minimal difference.  Someone has already tried pounding in some of the pins but those pins tended to be the loosest.

Also, the substance has migrated into many coiled strings and deadened them.  Could the horrible substance be WD-40?

Here's a video.

https://youtu.be/teLsfNFCAX8

That rubber band was also a curious sight.  I'll let you know if you guess correct what that was for.

[piano+david]

I can't get Youtube to play at the moment.   But it sounds reminiscent of the guy (now deceased) in my area who used to spray WD40 on the tuning pins of old uprights to make them look nicer and, theoretically, to help break any rust bonds in the string coils.  

The pernicious thing was the time delay - it would take weeks for the WD40 to really wick down the pins into the pinblock, and then suddenly while the owner was sitting having a coffee there'd be a "PING" as another pin suddenly slipped a quarter turn or more.  I have a page on my website about it, http://www.davidboyce.co.uk/no-wd40-please.php

Best regards,

 

David B.

[Terry Farrell]

Why do you say that about the Pearl River? I service one regularly at a church. Whereas I do prefer a nice Yamaha or some others among today’s uprights commonly encountered, it is a very serviceable piano and I’d so far to say it is a decent piano. Certainly more-so than 80% of the garbage I run across near-daily.

Terry Farrell

[Terry Farrell]

So what is the rubber band for? Ron suggested so that the damper worked on the uni-bi-cord - but how would the rubber band help that?

Terry Farrell

[piano+david]

OK, have now seen the video and photos.

Was it possible to establish any history from the owner?    The black gunk could be from a failed attempt to tighten the pins with PinTite or some other substance, with the piano upright (or not on its back for long enough).

But in that case, why were the pins loose to begin with?  Had someone previously attempted to slacken excessively tight pins with WD40 and the WD40 made the pins loose and killed the bass strings, then someone else tried to tighten the loose pins with PinTite (and hammering some pins in)?

I can't think what the rubber band is for.

Why did you attempt anything at all on this piano?  Did someone plead?

 

Best regards,

 

David B

 

 

On 29.03.2016 21:59, Regi Hedahl wrote:

[Regi Hedahl]

There are several broken wound bass strings and when this happens, the wedge no longer dampens the remaining string. Thee rubber band was a stupid attempt to quiet down the remaining string that no longer dampened. All I had to do was adjust the damper way in.

Regi

[piano+david]

Just as Ron suggested then!

David B.

[Regi Hedahl]

I tuned the piano because I had been prepaid, the piano was still tuneable (with CA glue) and the piano was going to be used to perform on that evening in a concert hall that seats about 800 people. I noticed some nice mics placed behind the piano. The backup is a Baldwin SD-10 but it may be in worse condition than this Pearl River.

Regi

[John Formsma]

The newer ones are not so bad. But they first generation that came here were total garbage.

John Formsma, RPT

New Albany, MS

[Terry Farrell]

But in Joe’s black-and-white world, if one is bad, all are bad.

Terry Farrell

[piano+david]

On 30.03.2016 13:27, Regi Hedahl wrote:
> I tuned the piano because I had been prepaid, the piano was still
> tuneable (with CA glue) and the piano was going to be used to perform
> on that evening in a concert hall that seats about 800 people. I
> noticed some nice mics placed behind the piano. The backup is a
> Baldwin SD-10 but it may be in worse condition than this Pearl River.
>
> Regi

Poor pianist! Isn't it extraordinary that the people responsible for
concert hall assets like this, have so little idea of their condition!
They think "tuning" will fix everything wrong with a piano, if they are
even aware of anything being wrong. Puts us in such an awkward
position sometimes.


Best regards,

David

[Larry Fisher RPT]

Hi Regi,

Really sad piano you have there.  I'd say someone tried to lube the t-pins with hopes of making the Accusnap tuning pins easier to tune.  Then because the results was too effective they tried PinTite to reverse the process.  When they tipped the piano back up some of the excess dripped on the stained damper and bass strings.  Wiping up didn't help either.

Broken strings?  Deaf tuner, improper use of the ETD, or excessive use of the damper/LOUD pedal. 

The rubber band is a lame repair no matter what it's for.  As one suggested it may be to improve dampening or it may also put pressure on the winding in just the right place to make the bass string sound better (no buzz/rattle due to loose winding).

Someone decided to either do their own piano work and failed or the piano owner, in a moment of alcoholic friendship, let their friend work on it.  Laughingly sad to say the least.  Let's go get drunk!!

There's got to be a group of people somewhere that are willing to drop a few dollars on watching this piano fall about 40 feet. 
You could gut it and make a desk.  I recently made a desk out of a Lowrey organ.  It turned out pretty nice and is quite functional.

Lar

[Joseph Garrett]

O.k. that is your experience. Mine has been quite the opposite. I suppose us "left coasters" got all the crap.<G> Oh well. My point was that the particular piano in question is toast and shouldn't be bothered with. Most certainly, it doesn't deserve all the "ink" it's getting.

Best,

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Farrell
Sent: Mar 30, 2016 4:48 AM
To: pian...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Can you identify this substance?

Why do you say that about the Pearl River? I service one regularly at a church. Whereas I do prefer a nice Yamaha or some others among today’s uprights commonly encountered, it is a very serviceable piano and I’d so far to say it is a decent piano. Certainly more-so than 80% of the garbage I run across near-daily.

Terry Farrell

On Mar 29, 2016, at 7:40 PM, Joseph Garrett <joega...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Why bother! It's a Chinese PSO/POS! Just hunt down the previous tech and hand him/her a live grenade and walk off.

Best,

Joe

[Regi Hedahl]

Overall, ignoring the ruined bass notes, this piano was terrible tonally. Dynamic range was nonexistent and it had the worst of the worst killer octave. Action was not bad however.

On a more positive note, I got a call this morning from the pianist who performed on it last night thanking me for making the piano sound so wonderful. This was the first she had heard of me and I will be getting more business. I guess I turned lemons into lemonade.

Regi

[David Kroenlein]

She must be deaf! Haha!

Sent from my iPhone

[Ron Nossaman]

On 3/30/2016 6:50 AM, Terry Farrell wrote:
> So what is the rubber band for? Ron suggested so that the damper worked
> on the uni-bi-cord - but how would the rubber band help that?

I figured it would kill enough of the sustain that the leaky damper
would seem to work better.
Ron N

[Ron Nossaman]

On 3/30/2016 7:05 AM, Regi Hedahl wrote:
> There are several broken wound bass strings and when this happens,
> the wedge no longer dampens the remaining string. Thee rubber band
> was a stupid attempt to quiet down the remaining string that no
> longer dampened. All I had to do was adjust the damper way in.

There you go.
Ron N

[Ron Nossaman]

On 3/30/2016 10:03 AM, Regi Hedahl wrote:
> Overall, ignoring the ruined bass notes, this piano was terrible
> tonally. Dynamic range was nonexistent and it had the worst of the
> worst killer octave. Action was not bad however.
>
> On a more positive note, I got a call this morning from the pianist
> who performed on it last night thanking me for making the piano sound
> so wonderful. This was the first she had heard of me and I will be
> getting more business. I guess I turned lemons into lemonade.

Congratulations. You've cornered the referrals for all the hopeless junk
out there. I hope not, but I have seen it happen.
Ron N

[Terry Farrell]

Wow, I kinda feel good that I hadn’t thought of that! Geesh!!  :-(

Terry Farrell

[Ron Nossaman]

On 3/30/2016 2:04 PM, Terry Farrell wrote:

> Wow, I kinda feel good that I hadn’t thought of that! Geesh!! :-(

After enough years of exposure to second hand piano repair insanity,
I've come to understand some small part of how these repairoids think.
Not by choice, but it sometimes serves as repellant - like Wolfbane for
Lycanthropes, garlic for vampires, or WD-40 for brain cells.
Ron N

[Larry Fisher RPT]

Congrats Regi.  Work like this can either make us or break us.  For you, it turned into something terrific.  Outstanding!!

I see the big picture on this piano I think.  Property management, not knowing squat about pianos, authorized someone to "work" on the possibly donated piano.  This piano placed next to the concert grand is viewed as a toy, a free item that has little or no value  .........  until it's ruined.  You managed to untangle the web of destruction and turn a profit plus gained a customer.  That's a skill beyond the trade, one of many that we juggle out here in the salt mines.