[Proposal] FIG 3.0 - Mission Statement

[Larry Garfield]

Given the importance of this part, let's break it off for its own discussion.  The mission statement for FIG 3 reads:

-----
The PHP Framework Interoperability Group (PHP-FIG) aims to advance the PHP ecosystem by developing and encouraging technical and process standards informed by real-world experience as well as its own research and experimentation. It does so through the development and publication of PHP Standard Recommendations (PSR).
-----

Of note, it explicitly says that both technical and non-technical specs are "in scope", and that both real-world experience ("what people are doing") and our own development ("what would be best for collaboration") are valid and important inputs to the process.

Thoughts, before that gets voted in?

--Larry Garfield

[Jordi Boggiano]

Sounds good to me! :)

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Jordi Boggiano
@seldaek - http://seld.be

[Korvin Szanto]

:+1: This looks good to me

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[Alessandro Lai]

Great summary!! Thumbs up!

[Paul Dragoonis]

This is good. You have my vote.

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[Matteo Beccati]

On 26/05/2016 09:50, Paul Dragoonis wrote:
> This is good. You have my vote.

And my bow^H^H^Hvote


--
Matteo Beccati

Development & Consulting - http://www.beccati.com/

[Brian Teeman]

Would it be perhaps better to say

"by developing and encouraging the use of technical and process standards"

[Nicolas Grekas]

Thank Larry for working on this, I think this is critical to get this right.

The PHP Framework Interoperability Group (PHP-FIG) aims to advance the PHP ecosystem by developing and encouraging technical and process standards informed by real-world experience as well as its own research and experimentation. It does so through the development and publication of PHP Standard Recommendations (PSR).

I've been thinking about this since a long time: I fear this mission statement creates a conflict of interest between the FIG and its members.

I think the FIG should decide between being a Standards body, or a Think tank.

The conflict of interest is that each member project is by itself kind of a think tank. Each project is trying to foster innovation in the PHP world by providing implementations. And each project is "competing" on this with other projects (which is nice). BUT if the FIG enters this game also, it competes directly with its members.

Said another way, standardization and innovation are conflicting goals for a single group to me. They require very different processes, have different artifacts, etc.

Regards,

Nicolas

[Paul Jones]

> On May 26, 2016, at 11:35, Nicolas Grekas <nicolas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Said another way, standardization and innovation are conflicting goals for a single group to me. They require very different processes, have different artifacts, etc.

This is well-said.


--

Paul M. Jones
http://paul-m-jones.com

[Matthew Weier O'Phinney]

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Nicolas Grekas
<nicolas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank Larry for working on this, I think this is critical to get this right.
>
>> The PHP Framework Interoperability Group (PHP-FIG) aims to advance the PHP
>> ecosystem by developing and encouraging technical and process standards
>> informed by real-world experience as well as its own research and
>> experimentation. It does so through the development and publication of PHP
>> Standard Recommendations (PSR).
>
>
> I've been thinking about this since a long time: I fear this mission
> statement creates a conflict of interest between the FIG and its members.
>
> I think the FIG should decide between being a Standards body, or a Think
> tank.
>
> The conflict of interest is that each member project is by itself kind of a
> think tank. Each project is trying to foster innovation in the PHP world by
> providing implementations. And each project is "competing" on this with
> other projects (which is nice). BUT if the FIG enters this game also, it
> competes directly with its members.

What if we changed the following: "its own research and
experimentation" to "via research and experimentation among its member
projects"? In my experience so far, even with PSR-7, the research and
experimentation were happening in member projects, and then brought
back to the proposal based on success/failure. Considering the other
ideas behind FIG 3.0, particularly the working groups, this would
continue to be the case.

> Said another way, standardization and innovation are conflicting goals for a
> single group to me. They require very different processes, have different
> artifacts, etc.

--
Matthew Weier O'Phinney
mweiero...@gmail.com
https://mwop.net/

[Larry Garfield]

Except that phly/http was not "part of Zend" (although you are), and
Stacker (my lambda-style experiment) was not "part of Drupal". Both of
those were done independently of any particular member project, even if
one of them later did become part of a member project.

--Larry Garfield

[GeeH]

It's surely wrong to imply that the only people who can conduct research or experimentation are the people involved in voting member projects?