PSR-5+ not on the main FIG website

[Jason Judge]

http://www.php-fig.org/ stops at PSR-4, but there are further PSRs that are in development, are something that people should be very much aware of and keeping track of, but are not linked from the main FIG website.

I found PSR-5 through Wikipedia when looking for some documentation, so why does it not have its pride of place amongst the other PSRs on the FIG front page, even if it is still in development? It has a number; it is a real thing (an important thing too).

This may have been discussed previously, and there may be a good reason for the way it is, but from outside the group it does look a little disjointed.

-- Jason

[Phil Sturgeon]

This is something that has not been discussed since the new workflow. 

I can see arguments for and against putting these up on the website. Manly, while they are in development they belong on GitHub and not on the website. It would become hard for people to differentiate the various types of PSR. 

There is an index of PSRs on GitHub for folks to keep track of where things are. Maybe we can link to that?

 

[Paul Dragoonis]

They're in development, they're subject to change. If they're on the website then the website will be archived and crawled by sites like google and people will start using them as reference which is bad since they're subject to change.

No website for non-released PSR's :)

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[Alexander Makarov]

I'm against putting these to the website since these aren't finished and often change very much before actually becoming a PSR.

[justin]

We could add a link to https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/wiki/PHP-Standard-Recommendations as "proposed PSRs" or something?

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[Jason Judge]

Well, seems pretty unanimous (in the replies at least) that the group doesn't want to make it easy to find PSRs that are in development. We will just leave them to be crawled and indexed by Google from reddit, Wikipedia, github, personal blogs...anywhere but the FIG (with any kind of official statement about their status and progress).

I must say I disagree with that approach, as it does not solve anything other than keeping people away from the process. I'm not saying that everyone and his dog should be involved (I appreciate the noise levels need to be kept in check), but more visibility of what is going on behind the scenes can help foster trust in the FIG and relations with the wider PHP community.

-- Jason

[Bernhard Schussek]

I agree that there should at least be a listing of the PSRs that are in progress on the website. For example, below the last PSR button ("PSR-4" as of now) we could add another button ("In Progress") which links to http://www.php-fig.org/psr/

This page should not just list published PSRs, but also those that are in progress and those that have been rejected. For non-published PSRs, I think it is fine to simply link to the relevant GitHub page instead of copying to the website.

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[Don Gilbert]

In your original post, you requested a "good reason". When one was presented by several FIG members, you started whining about us trying to create a closed group to keep people away from the process, which is simply untrue.

The reason you got the answers you did is because you're asking for non-accepted PSR's to be listed on the homepage right next to accepted PSR's. If that happened, it would cause even more confusion than not listing them at all.

However, I would not be opposed to creating a new section of the website, as Bernhard suggested, for listing in-progress PSR's. Would this remove your confusion and help you find them easier?

Thanks,

Don

[Jason Judge]

Sorry if it sounded like an attack or a "whine" - it was never intended as one. It is just my opinion of how some things may look from outside the group, and was not meant to criticise the hard work people are putting into the FIG. I said I disagreed with some of the reasons in some answers, that was all, but I'm happy to be wrong.

Anyway, listing in-progress PSRs on a separate page would be good. Just a few lines about what their status is and who is leading its development, would help to put them in perspective and provide a starting point for exploring them.

-- Jason

[justin]

They're already listed just like that on GitHub... making another list on the website would just add maintenance overhead. Let's link to the GitHub wiki page?

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[Phil Sturgeon]

On Tuesday, 11 March 2014 08:08:40 UTC-4, Jason Judge wrote:

Well, seems pretty unanimous (in the replies at least) that the group doesn't want to make it easy to find PSRs that are in development.

Come on Judge. I would hope our days of cider drinking up north would leave us being a little less snippy than this. =:)

How do you like my idea of linking to the wiki page from the website? That would make it easy, and make it very clear what the difference is. 

And/Or we get http://www.php-fig.org/psr/ parsing that Wiki page as Bernhard suggested.

Either one of those does what you want, it just doesn't do it in the exact way you said.

Compromise and all that.

[Paul Dragoonis]

I'm more than happy to have a "In Progress Proposals" page, listing PSR 5,6 ..etc

I just didn't want them side-by-side with the launched PSR's such as PSR4.

If there's a separate page to list them all, and on that page we have a big disclaimer/notice at the top then that's good enough.

If someone wants to make this new page and kick things off then I'll definitely take a look at it.

Cheers,

Paul

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[Filipe Guerra]

I have a few questions regarding the release of PSRs.

What happens when we have a PSR-X+1 ready and PSR-X isn't ready yet (or approved)? That never happened and I think we would try to work on PSR-X as soon as possible, but theoretically that can happen, right?

What would be the number of the PSR if we would decide to not approve or switch the order of a PSR? Would we switch the number to follow the correct release order? That would confuse people, right? Shouldn't we probably come up with some PSR-doc, PSR-cache and other names that wouldn't be connected to the number of the PSR that will be accepted?

Nevertheless, imho to avoid any confusion of ppl that would go to http://www.php-fig.org/psr/ and see something listed there (even with a h3 tag saying proposed/rejected PSRs), I think we should put a big warning that they are by any means Accepted Standards and they serve only the purpose to let ppl know what is the roadmap of phpfig.

Regards

[Phil Sturgeon]

On Friday, 28 March 2014 10:14:59 UTC-4, Filipe Guerra wrote:

I have a few questions regarding the release of PSRs.

What happens when we have a PSR-X+1 ready and PSR-X isn't ready yet (or approved)? That never happened and I think we would try to work on PSR-X as soon as possible, but theoretically that can happen, right?

Of course. They're all auto incrementing numbers and they can be skipped and released in any order.

 

What would be the number of the PSR if we would decide to not approve or switch the order of a PSR? Would we switch the number to follow the correct release order? That would confuse people, right? Shouldn't we probably come up with some PSR-doc, PSR-cache and other names that wouldn't be connected to the number of the PSR that will be accepted?

Nothing changes. They have a number assigned and it stays with them through life or death.

We did this specifically to avoid coming up with names like PSR-doc and PSR-cache because people were firing out PSR-X PSR-R PSR-PM PSR-RLFDFS like mad and it was not manageable. Now we have a list.

 

Nevertheless, imho to avoid any confusion of ppl that would go to http://www.php-fig.org/psr/ and see something listed there (even with a h3 tag saying proposed/rejected PSRs), I think we should put a big warning that they are by any means Accepted Standards and they serve only the purpose to let ppl know what is the roadmap of phpfig.

We should make that wiki list be on the site somewhere yes.