[Policy] Expulsion Bylaw Change

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Michael Cullum

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May 28, 2016, 9:55:50 AM5/28/16
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Hi all,

After the recent vote it was highlighted the bylaws do not say whether or not the member project/voting representative in question can vote on their own expulsion. It was also noted the bylaws don't cover a way to expel a voting project directly, but only to request a new representative (which would result in expulsion if no new representative is provided).

PMJ and others started up this discussion on the 26th May so we'll have a two week discussion, then put it to a vote.

The bylaw changes in question are visible on https://github.com/php-fig/fig-standards/pull/765

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Michael C

Michael Cullum

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Jun 1, 2016, 9:13:37 AM6/1/16
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Hi all,

There seems to be little to no discussion on this topic now which I'm taking to imply silent
agreement. Would anyone object to putting this to a vote later this week (I'm aware that 2
weeks hasn't passed)?

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Thanks,
Michael

Paul Jones

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Jun 1, 2016, 9:36:52 AM6/1/16
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> On Jun 1, 2016, at 08:13, Michael Cullum <m...@michaelcullum.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There seems to be little to no discussion on this topic now which I'm taking to imply silent
> agreement. Would anyone object to putting this to a vote later this week (I'm aware that 2
> weeks hasn't passed)?

I object.

Silence is not agreement. There's no hurry, and no real reason not to stick to the convention of 2 weeks.


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GeeH

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Jun 1, 2016, 10:12:21 AM6/1/16
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I agree with Paul (the world has stopped turning), surely the lack of discussion means that more time may be required, rather than less?

Samantha Quiñones

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Jun 1, 2016, 10:24:11 AM6/1/16
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The objections are duly noted. The discussion will remain open. Thank you for your comments!

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Samantha Quiñones

Robert Hafner

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Jun 1, 2016, 5:37:47 PM6/1/16
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I’ve brought this up a couple of times but it seemed to get drowned out in the bickering.

I think that as part of this change we should make it clear that voting members can not have their votes revoked for any reason that isn’t in the bylaws. If there are other reasons why a member’s vote should not count then we should make that clear in the document.

Rob




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Rafael Dohms

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Jun 2, 2016, 4:43:16 AM6/2/16
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 11:37:47 PM UTC+2, Robert Hafner wrote:
I’ve brought this up a couple of times but it seemed to get drowned out in the bickering.

I think that as part of this change we should make it clear that voting members can not have their votes revoked for any reason that isn’t in the bylaws. If there are other reasons why a member’s vote should not count then we should make that clear in the document.


I agree this needs to be noted, but I think its very important that we establish voting members CANNOT vote on their own expulsion, their right should be that of "defending themselves in the discussion thread and pleading innocent/guilty" if the situation so merits.

Andreas Heigl

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Jun 2, 2016, 4:54:36 AM6/2/16
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Am 02.06.16 um 10:43 schrieb Rafael Dohms:
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 11:37:47 PM UTC+2, Robert Hafner wrote:
>
> I’ve brought this up a couple of times but it seemed to get drowned
> out in the bickering.
>
> I think that as part of this change we should make it clear that
> voting members can not have their votes revoked for any reason that
> isn’t in the bylaws. If there are other reasons why a member’s vote
> should not count then we should make that clear in the document.
>
>
> I agree this needs to be noted, but I think its very important that we
> establish voting members CANNOT vote on their own expulsion, their right
> should be that of "defending themselves in the discussion thread and
> pleading innocent/guilty" if the situation so merits.
>
Why should a valid voting member of the FIG not be allowed to vote? Yes,
it's about their expulsion, but there are only two possibliities in my eyes:
* either the vote of that person/project doesn't have an effect on the
outcome of the vote, so it's not really an issue,
* or the vote of that person/project *has* an effect on the voting
result, then it's a sign that the vote isn't as clear as it was thought
it'd be and that's an absolutely valid point in a democracy. It might
not "feel right" for some, but in my eyes it's better to have a valid
and not disputable vote than revoke the right to defend oneself not only
in discussion but also in voting.

Justs my 0.02€

Cheers

Andreas


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Damian Mooyman

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Jun 3, 2016, 5:42:59 AM6/3/16
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I concur with this view, without having anything else to add to it.
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