Eclipse Mars / ADT 4.4 no go

[Pete]

I think I've figured out why it's so hard to set up a phonegap development environment... the phonegap devs want to make sure you REALLY want to do this... it's a test of pain tolerance and a sign of further impending pain. <frustrated sarcastic humor>

Eclipse Mars1 (4.5.1) php/html/css 

JDK1.8.0_66

JRE1.8.0_66

Eclipse works fine. No errors, I can edit files without issue.

I've tried installing the ADT plugin every way imaginable.

From: the market place via drag&drop

From: https://dl-ssl.google.com/android/eclipse/

From: https://dl.google.com/eclipse/plugin/4.3 

Even when it says its installed, it points to /Program Files/Android/adroid-sdks and that folder is empty.

Users/username/.android  is empty etc.  There is no ADK or SDK manager anywhere and nothing shows up on the Eclipse menus (I think it used to).

Any suggestions?  Does anyone have CURRENT instructions on setting up an Eclipse/phonegap dev environment?

[jcesarmobile]

You don't need eclipse for phonegap development, in fact, you don't need any IDE, just the CLI.
And eclipse isn't the recommended IDE for android development neither, you should consider moving to android studio.

[Phil Petree]

Sorry dude... I've not used a CLI compiler since I stopped writing 8086 assember... next you'll be suggesting I used EDLIN as the dev editor.

so far the solution was to BLOW OFF the Eclipse Installer, to download the eclipse .zip file and start from scratch.

Right now the big issue is the incompetent developers of the AVD who can't seem to grasp the concept of multi-user installs and who create stupid shit like this:

NOTICE how the AVD is looking for .andorid which is no where near the installed path of the SDK.  This just demonstrates "an assumed knowledge" and an idiocy that failed any form of pre-release testing.

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[jcesarmobile]

I think you didn't understand me, CLI is Command Line Interface, it's NPM based and it's the way of working with cordova since cordova 3.0 and it has nothing to do with CLI compilers.

But it's funny that you don't want to work with "old" technologies and say that I'm going to suggest you and old IDE, when I'm telling you to use android studio because eclipse has been deprecated, you are the one using an old IDE.

[Jesse Monroy]

@Pete,
don't mind jcesarmobile he has grown jaded, like most of us on this forum. This forum is mostly CLI user, some IDE users, and a handful of Phonegap Build users. The truth, as far as we can tell, is that Cordova/Eclipse users don't have a good communication system. In any case, here are some pointers.

Google: ide phonegap cordova eclipse

https://www.eclipse.org/thym/  - This one I've seen multiple times.

https://github.com/jessemonroy650/top-phonegap-mistakes/blob/master/hybrid-frameworks.md - Some random notes I have on this subject.

Best of Luck
Jesse

[Jesse Monroy]

On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 12:28:10 PM UTC-7, Pete wrote:

I think I've figured out why it's so hard to set up a phonegap development environment... the phonegap devs want to make sure you REALLY want to do this... it's a test of pain tolerance and a sign of further impending pain. <frustrated sarcastic humor>

AKA. Works on my machine. I don't know. ;-)

[Phil Petree]

Thanks for that.

I actually had this up and running a few years ago and did a number of apps... it worked fairly well for what it was and what we needed done.  Since then, the company was sold and I moved on to other things, blew off eclipse, nodejs, ADK, phonegap etc and I'm back to trying to get the system rebuilt (2013-2015 is pretty old).

It's been a frustrating process... even trying to install the phonegap-cli using npm produces a boat load of errors... shouldn't be happening, especially since everything is now "new" meaning its all being installed within the last week.

After finally getting Eclipse squared away, the ADK and everything working, being able to create a project without errors I decided it was time to pull the latest phonegap.. and guess what:

"8 warn install Refusing to install phonegap as a dependency of itself"

I had already looked at Android Developer Studio but you can forget building an IOS app that way... kinda defeats the purpose of a write once, deploy many framework.

I'll look at your links... thanks again.

[jcesarmobile]

I don't understand this sentence:

"I had already looked at Android Developer Studio but you can forget building an IOS app that way... kinda defeats the purpose of a write once, deploy many framework."

Why using android studio you can forget building ios apps? You can build ios apps using eclipse?

As you started long time ago, I think you started with the phonegap eclipse plugin and that's why you are trying to set up eclipse again. i have bad news, the phonegap eclipse plugin is dead and you can't use anymore, I think the last phonegap version it supported was 1.9.
Since cordova 3.0 things changed a lot, as I told you, now you have to use the CLI to add plugins, run, etc.mbut for code editing you can use any editor or IDE you want, but you just have to edit the root www folder.
There are some IDEs that have cordova integration (visual studio 2015, netbeans) and some code editors wih plugins (brackets, visual studio code), you can use any of them if you don't want to type CLI commands.

[Phil Petree]

I have the eclipse plugin working and, like I said, I can create the android project etc.

Visual studio... there's one I've not used since my old .asp/.net days (2005?)

I'll look at netbeans... all I want is a simple, phonegap dev environment... It's a relatively simple app... I have most of the code in place and had I not spent the past week screwing around with the dev environment, I probably would have had this thing functioning! LOL

[Steve Sobol - Lobos Studios]

Eclipse has issues, which is probably why Android Studio is now built on top of IntelliJ. I like IntelliJ enough that I became a paid customer - what issues do you have with it?

Not to mention that you can use the command line and don't have to use an IDE at all... or just use the IDE to edit files.

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[Jesse Monroy]

On Monday, November 23, 2015 at 2:34:35 PM UTC-7, Pete wrote:

Thanks for that.

I actually had this up and running a few years ago and did a number of apps... it worked fairly well for what it was and what we needed done.  Since then, the company was sold and I moved on to other things, blew off eclipse, nodejs, ADK, phonegap etc and I'm back to trying to get the system rebuilt (2013-2015 is pretty old).

This FAQ should also help.
<a href=https://github.com/jessemonroy650/top-phonegap-mistakes/blob/master/new-to-Phonegap.md>Top Mistakes by Developers new to Cordova/Phonegap</a>
You should know much of this stuff....
FWIW: I have no notes on NPM as most people have it working. Cordova and Phonegap are moving targets. The whitelist has been a major headache. Which reminds me.

You likely need to implement the <i>whitelist</i> system.
This <i>whitelist</i> worksheet should help.
<a href=https://github.com/jessemonroy650/top-phonegap-mistakes/blob/master/the-whitelist-system.md>HOW TO apply the Cordova/Phonegap the whitelist system</a>

Save the links if you don't read them right away.

Best of Luck
Jesse

[Kerri Shotts]

Pete,

The simplest (non-cloud) PhoneGap development environment is as follows:

* Node & NPM

* PhoneGap/Cordova CLI

* Up-to-date Platform SDK (Android, iOS, etc)

* Java JDK (7 or 8)

* Ant (if not already installed)

* Code editor

If you want to add an IDE to that, you can, of course. I flit between WebStorm, Visual Studio Code, and Neovim (with lots of plugins). But when I go to run a PhoneGap/Cordova command, I do it on the command line.

> That said: Eclipse for Android is deprecated at the end of the year. Android Studio is the only Google-supported IDE going forward. Cordova/PhoneGap have updated to support Android Studio, hence why we suggested to use that. [Oh, and as far as building iOS Apps -- Android Studio doesn't, of course -- but neither did Eclipse. But PhoneGap/Cordova CLI does, assuming you also have Xcode installed and are running on a Mac. It uses the same root www folder to build the iOS project, so you can indeed have the same www code running on both platforms. That's the point of the CLI.]

Now, if you don't mind not having some control over the native bits, you might just want to look at PhoneGap Build. It takes care of the native SDK work for you, such that your environment can be as simple as an editor and a www folder that gets uploaded to PG Build (you can use the CLI for this or use GitHub or upload manually).

As to errors when installing phonegap-cli -- you're right, you shouldn't be getting any. Care to share the errors you were getting? Maybe one of us has encountered them before.

Hope that helps.

[Steve Husting]

Look through the first two links on this page:

https://iphonedevlog.wordpress.com/workflow/ 

[Pete]

@Steve... those are some great links.

@Jesse... you've compiled a lot of useful info

@Kerri... that was well presented and helpful.

Here's what I've found:

Android Developer Studio has as much or more of a setup problem than any other IDE.  There are sooo many flaming hoops to jump through that it's overwhelming to even consider.  From most posts, you still have to use the cli and create the project outside of ADS... so why bother?

Netbeans... a complete and total waste of time.  Although it says it works out of the box, it doesn't.  It requires a LOT of extra, behind the scenes work.  Any instructions (including the ones on the netbeans site) are out of date or incomplete (i.e. copy the cordova.jar file... there isn't a cordova jar file unless you build it).

Eclipse... support may be ending but, truthfully, with a little work from Eclipse, it could still be the defacto editor for phonegap/cordova projects.  Again, there are many missing pieces.

Phonegap Desktop... what a complete and total waste of man hours (mine and the apps developers).  Conceptually its a great idea but I think there are far easier ways to accomplish the same task... plus, the damned thing doesn't work.  It doesn't produce anything other than an empty .zip file and there really doesn't seem to be a way to diagnose or fix the problem.

nodejs/npm... for many developers, this is really a deep, dark, black hole.  The first time I installed and used it, it was for me as well.  I've since grown accustomed to its non-sense so I tolerate it.

Phonegap (developers and Product Manager)... I think these people have completely missed the boat and really don't understand how or why their product is being used and by whom.  Spending weeks to cobble together a development platform is unnecessary and defeats the purpose of the phonegap platforms. There are too many moving pieces and, based on all the articles I've read, they're creating an environment where developers prefer other frameworks.

Having said all that, I think you were all correct in your advice to just use the cli.  This is truly a step backwards by about 20 years. Now I'll spend the rest of my Thanksgiving weekend trying to get that to work... 

Happy Turkey day!

[jcesarmobile]

the netbeans guide doesn't mention anything about cordova.jar, I did a quick read and doesn't seem out of date

https://netbeans.org/kb/docs/webclient/cordova-gettingstarted.html

[Jesse Monroy]

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 11:34:43 AM UTC-7, Pete wrote:

::::SNIP::::

Having said all that, I think you were all correct in your advice to just use the cli.  This is truly a step backwards by about 20 years. Now I'll spend the rest of my Thanksgiving weekend trying to get that to work... 

@Pete,
I think in the future you will find the opposite. The task of Cordova is to encompass as many mobile devices as it can. It has no ambitions to dominate the world (such some platforms with lizards as icons).

The most difficult task for Cordova is to make the platform neutral, while market forces work to entrap developers with "features". Those "features" in the end make it more difficult for developers to develop for multiple platforms. At this point, it is a struggle to just stay neutral.

Best of Luck
Jesse

[Phil Petree]

@Jesse I understand the goal and that goal is its appeal. However, what types of companies choose this platform over a native app? Small? Mid-sized? Cost conscious? Limited resources? 

If any mix of that is over 60% of your user base and you make using your product so difficult that you offset any benefits, then your customer base will look elsewhere. This is simple product management. Use = benefit/cost.

If you pay your avg developer $80k per year, that comes out to about $45 per hour. If it takes 4 days to establish a working phonegap dev environment that's $1400. Add in the app dev time of 30 days all the issues with plugins, the learning curve, api keys etc and you're hitting $12-$15k. You can pay to have most apps written in native code for 1/2 that and not suffer all the compatibility issues. 

In my case I'm starting from an older working prototype (85% complete), stripping some things out, adding a few new features... Thereby saving the previous dev time and shorten the time to market.

Has anyone tried the Intel XDK?

Sent from my iPad

[Jesse Monroy]

Sorry, you are using a ridiculous MBA argument.
Good software companies make 20x the salary of a programmer (or programming team).
Those that are not making that are fooling themselves into believing they have a real product and a real business.

Best of Luck
Jesse