27% of developers planning to abandon PhoneGap. Why?
jxp
I wondered why this was. What specific problems do you have with PhoneGap?
Are certain features difficult, impossible or slow?
I am looking at using PhoneGap for a large project and like what I have seen so far.
I would like to hear some differing opinions though.
offshorewahoo
worthy of wanting to abandon it for. The only thing I can think of is
developers deciding that they are just going to target iOS and Android
and forget about the other platforms, and maybe they figure they can
go native. Whatever.
On Mar 26, 7:31 pm, jxp <princej.w...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> I saw a report today (http://www.visionmobile.com/crossplatformtools.php)
> that although PhoneGap is top for current and intended usage as a
> Cross-platform mobile environment, it also got a score of 27% planning to
> abandon it.
>
Toshiya TSURU
jacco
Unfortunately, there is *still* a lot wrong with html5/css3
implementations on (especially) Android devices.Even ICS.
No matter what framework you use and no matter what others claim, a
javascript based app is simply *not* comparable to a native app as is.
So I can imagine people use Phonegap/Cordova to start with, but when
it comes down to performance of an app they go native.
Diego Guidi
I wondered why this was. What specific problems do you have with PhoneGap?
Are certain features difficult, impossible or slow?
Drew Dahlman
Giacomo Balli
Regardless of the outcome, I will not abandon PhoneGap (although
developing solely for iOS) because it lets you waste no time in
setting layouts.
Going full native, for most of the apps around, is a complete
overkill.
PhoneGap is genius! ;)
On Mar 27, 3:53 pm, Drew Dahlman <i...@drewdahlman.com> wrote:
> I think everyone eles points are valid, but I will say this. The stability
> of an app is all dependent on the dev... you can still write a terrible app
> in native that is slow and buggy, just as you would with js.
>
> The 1.5 release really has messed things up in my opinion... I know
> eventually it will get back to normal but for right now, im still using 1.3
> and it's great. I now have 3 apps in the app store, and my performance on
> both android and iOS is getting better.
>
> The key to making a phonegap app feel native is learning about what CSS3
> and JS capabilities the devices have, and also knowing that if you use
> phonegap + a little native code you can pull off some pretty awesome things.
>
> I personally don't use any frameworks like jQtouc, JQMobile or Sencha
> because I find that by creating my own framework I have much more control
> over the way things are created, destroyed, memory is managed and overall
> performance can be boosted.
>
> just my thoughts on the matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, March 26, 2012 5:31:22 PM UTC-6, jxp wrote:
>
> > I saw a report today (http://www.visionmobile.com/crossplatformtools.php)
> > that although PhoneGap is top for current and intended usage as a
> > Cross-platform mobile environment, it also got a score of 27% planning to
> > abandon it.
>
Chris Brody
David La Motta
WebSteve
A chart on page 32 shows that people are choosing specific platforms for specific goals; this is perhaps a reason some move on from PG. O page 34 you see that PG has the highest percentage of use among developers, no matter what is their primary tool.
At a "market traction" of 600,000 app downloads (p15), PG is doing pretty good!
The 27% abandonment rate has to be seen in context: it has a 23% acceptance rate (p35). The three reasons given for abandonment are based on its 3 perceived weaknesses: development and debugging experience, UI capabilities, and runtime performance (p36). Sencha and Appcelerator are experiencing similar churning (p36). Adobe Flex abandonment: 42% (p36)!
Regards,
Steve
Justin Harrison
People don’t get what PhoneGap is and what PhoneGap isn’t. People seem to expect,
- Something like Titanium, or Sencha Touch (with full UI libraries and Javascript libraries for building your app)
- A full app builder and distributor all rolled into one
A bigger issue is probably that,
- Most people don’t seem to understand how web apps work. Navigating between HTML pages in PhoneGap does not make a great app. Also, taking jQuery Mobile and stitching something together overnight is also not a great app. Yet, there really aren’t any clear cut examples for new people and it’s not common knowledge how you build a great web app. Only the self-starters survive.
- PhoneGap is perceived to have a lower barrier to entry because it’s not Xcode, doesn’t require a Mac, and because it’s web technology (and traditional developers seem to look down on HTML/JS/CSS) – so a lot of people that really shouldn’t be trying to make apps start using PhoneGap only to abandon it when they realize that writing mobile apps is still hard.
The unfortunate reality is that building web apps is indeed challenging, and PhoneGap solves a very specific problem, but that’s just one problem out of many that you’ll hit on the road to building a great app..
Justin
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Luther Goh Lu Feng
>________________________________
> From: Justin Harrison <Justin....@microsoft.com>
>To: "phon...@googlegroups.com" <phon...@googlegroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:48 PM
>Subject: RE: [PhoneGap] Re: 27% of developers planning to abandon PhoneGap. Why?
>
>- Most people don’t seem to understand how web apps work. Navigating between HTML pages in PhoneGap does not make a great app. Also, taking jQuery Mobile and stitching something together overnight is also not a great app. Yet, there really aren’t any clear cut examples for new people and it’s not common knowledge how you build a great web app. Only the self-starters survive.
====================================
Could you pls explain 'taking jQuery Mobile and stitching something together overnight is also not a great app'. Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Luther
Drew Dahlman
James Ferguson
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/phonegap?hl=en?hl=en
For more info on PhoneGap or to download the code go to www.phonegap.com
Shazron
forget our other goals:
From the wiki:
1. Our first goal, is to see the web as a first class development
platform. Not a sandbox without a filesystem but a real first class
platform that includes access to the local system apis, sensors and
data, in addition to first class tooling such as system debuggers.
2. The second goal of PhoneGap is for the project to cease to exist.
This is not a nihilistic sentiment, rather we at the PhoneGap project
are providing a reference implementation for web browsers to assist
and guide the standardization process of browser APIs.
In the end, for PhoneGap devs its a win, and for general web dev
(everybody!) it's a win. I think these are great goals. I would say
with Windows 8 and WinRT plus JavaScript as a first class language,
we're getting there for goal #1.
Shaz
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Drew Dahlman <in...@drewdahlman.com> wrote:
>> phonegap+u...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/phonegap?hl=en?hl=en
>>
>> For more info on PhoneGap or to download the code go to www.phonegap.com
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "phonegap" group.
> To post to this group, send email to phon...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> phonegap+u...@googlegroups.com
Konstantin Mirin
We used Sencha Touch. It has good architecture, lagre number of controls and mostly its OK.
Phonegap... I'd never go with it again. For the following reasons:
- 'Official' plugins are not compatible with the newest version. This is arguable, but this basically reads: "We don't care what you develop, we just release new version. Doesn't work? We don't care".
- Images from camera are rotating 90 degrees on some phones.
- File upload API is not working consistently.
- No readable and correct guidelines for application. I
understand, I should know that when app goes to background, you
can't make your JS work. Yes, I should know that you cannot use
long polling via iframe because you're actually opening local
file. Yes, I should know that Android has a limitation of 1 MB
per JS file. I also should know how Android application works
internally to debug the starting Phonegap project that doesn't
compile. I should also know Objective C if I want to install any
plugin. And yes, I shouldn't use the online build if I want to
use ChildBrowser although there is a detailed manual there how
to include it.
I uderstand, I should know that. However I'm JS (that is JavaScript, not Objective C or Java) developer as most of us here. I know programming and I can sort all those issue, but I want to know about them beforehand so I could plan time for those.
Is it so hard to write it clearly somewhere? Oh, yes, that spoils the market position of a "world's most popular mobile development platform". Titanium is not advertised so hugely, it doesn't have so much hype, but I could get Facebook connection working there in 20 mins with NO prior experience! - By the way, you can't distribute you iphone app if you use online build. Actually you need mac anyway.
I don't see a passion. I think after Nitobi was sold, nobody is actually improving anything significantly.
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-- Best regards, Konstantin Mirin. mailto:konstant...@gmail.com My blog: http://programmersnotes.info/
Pete
and seem to break everything
I got 1.5 a few days ago. First thing I tested the childbrowser, and
it's hosed now ( see my other post ).
This one is critical for me anyway, probably many others too.
And yes, after installing 1.5 for Android, the exampleCordova app
doesn't compile, apparently not even a single test was done to see if
it actually works. Next, the create new project script doesn't work,
you have to tweak all kinds and figure out where to run it, etc ( I
got it working now but the point is, why on earth do I have to fix it
in the first place )
I am sticking with phonegap 1.0 until they get their act together
On Mar 27, 12:47 pm, Konstantin Mirin <konstantin.mi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> We used Sencha Touch. It has good architecture, lagre number of controls
> and mostly its OK.
>
> Phonegap... I'd never go with it again. For the following reasons:
>
> you develop, we just release new version. Doesn't work? We don't
> care".
> * File upload API is not working consistently.
> * No readable and correct guidelines for application. I understand,
> your JS work. Yes, I should know that you cannot use long polling
> via iframe because you're actually opening local file. Yes, I
> should know that Android has a limitation of 1 MB per JS file. I
> also should know how Android application works internally to debug
> the starting Phonegap project that doesn't compile. I should also
> know Objective C if I want to install any plugin. And yes, I
> shouldn't use the online build if I want to use ChildBrowser
> although there is a detailed manual there how to include it.
> I uderstand, I should know that. However I'm JS (that is
> JavaScript, not Objective C or Java) developer as most of us here.
> know about them beforehand* so I could plan time for those.
> the market position of a "world's most popular mobile development
> platform". Titanium is not advertised so hugely, it doesn't have
> so much hype, but I could get Facebook connection working there in
> 20 mins with NO prior experience!
> > Cross-platform mobile environment, it also got a score of 27%
> > planning to abandon it.
>
> > Are certain features difficult, impossible or slow?
>
> > I am looking at using PhoneGap for a large project and like what I
> > have seen so far.
> > I would like to hear some differing opinions though.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "phonegap" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to phon...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > phonegap+u...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/phonegap?hl=en?hl=en
>
> > For more info on PhoneGap or to download the code go towww.phonegap.com
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Konstantin Mirin.
>
> My blog:http://programmersnotes.info/
Justin Harrison
To be fair here…
- PhoneGap is a thin wrapper between you and the platform. It’s not an app framework; it’s not a UI library. It’s not going to give you a connection to Facebook in 20 minutes like Titanium. It’s a hosted WebView control in a native app, with native APIs bridged via Javascript. That’s it.
- If the platform varies, then the output in PhoneGap may vary. Where possible PhoneGap does attempt to behave in platform agnostic ways, however on Android particularly this is very difficult to do. You wouldn’t see this problem disappear by writing in native code, or by using another framework. Most of the time, I can find the exact same issues that I hit in PhoneGap reported in many frameworks across every platform. Android OEMs customize the platform in totally unknown and seemingly arbitrary ways, and without actually testing on every Android device, you simply don’t know what is going to happen. Now, you could argue that now that they’ve been acquired by Adobe they should get a real test team, buy every Android device, and hammer this out. I would agree with that. J
- PhoneGap is a completely different codebase on nearly every platform, and it’s an open source project – so many different people wrote the varying PhoneGap implementations. There is occasionally inconsistent behavior between the platforms. As far as I can tell, a lot of the work that has been done in the last several releases has been to resolve these inconsistencies and unify the JS API across them. These changes may break your app. Before you take a code update to your PhoneGap dependency, you should check to see if you’re ready to do the necessarily work to update your app. Nearly every PhoneGap release has included a “how to update your app” section in the release notes with lots of details on how to do this work.
- Between last August to today, PhoneGap has gone from 0.9.6 to 1.6. You can almost depend on an update every 4-6 weeks. There is plenty of progress being made – look at the commits and changelogs. I don’t see any lack of passion from Nitobi since the acquisition; It does seem like there is a bit more travel and vacation though. Brian, get back to work; quit slacking :-p
Justin
Noli Sicad
PhoneGap is a Hybrid Javascript (i.e native + JS) Framework for mobile
OS platform. It is not Web UI Javascript windowing toolkit.
Hybrid Javascript Framework are:
- PhoneGap ( FOSS)
- QuickConnect (FOSS) (iOS and Android only)
- Titanium (Propietary - i.e. commercial) with UI framework included.
- etc
Web UI Javascript Windowing Toolkit for mobile devices.
- jQTouch (FOSS)
- Sencha Touch (LGPL and commecial)
- jQuery Mobile (FOSS).
- iUIKit
- your own homebrew web UI for mobile devices
- etc.
Now, It is futile and pointless to compare PhoneGap or any other Web
UI Javascript windowing toolkit. It is just like comparing Apples to
Oranges (e.g. Valencia orange to Gala apple).
PhoneGap vs. Sencha Touch, it is just like Boxing and Kung Fu ... in
street fighting will do :-).
QuickConnect is better than PhoneGap.
I can run Spatialite library (GIS extension to SQLite3 in QuickConnect
using the standard SQLite3 library, not in PhoneGap in iOS.
Noli
On 3/28/12, Justin Harrison <Justin....@microsoft.com> wrote:
> To be fair here...
>
>
> - PhoneGap is a thin wrapper between you and the platform. It's not
> an app framework; it's not a UI library. It's not going to give you a
> connection to Facebook in 20 minutes like Titanium. It's a hosted WebView
> control in a native app, with native APIs bridged via Javascript. That's it.
>
>
>
> - If the platform varies, then the output in PhoneGap may vary.
> Where possible PhoneGap does attempt to behave in platform agnostic ways,
> however on Android particularly this is very difficult to do. You wouldn't
> see this problem disappear by writing in native code, or by using another
> framework. Most of the time, I can find the exact same issues that I hit in
> PhoneGap reported in many frameworks across every platform. Android OEMs
> customize the platform in totally unknown and seemingly arbitrary ways, and
> without actually testing on every Android device, you simply don't know what
> is going to happen. Now, you could argue that now that they've been acquired
> by Adobe they should get a real test team, buy every Android device, and
> hammer this out. I would agree with that. :)
>
>
> - PhoneGap is a completely different codebase on nearly every
> platform, and it's an open source project - so many different people wrote
> the varying PhoneGap implementations. There is occasionally inconsistent
> behavior between the platforms. As far as I can tell, a lot of the work that
> has been done in the last several releases has been to resolve these
> inconsistencies and unify the JS API across them. These changes may break
> your app. Before you take a code update to your PhoneGap dependency, you
> should check to see if you're ready to do the necessarily work to update
> your app. Nearly every PhoneGap release has included a "how to update your
> app" section in the release notes with lots of details on how to do this
> work.
>
>
>
> - Between last August to today, PhoneGap has gone from 0.9.6 to
> 1.6. You can almost depend on an update every 4-6 weeks. There is plenty of
> progress being made - look at the commits and changelogs. I don't see any
> lack of passion from Nitobi since the acquisition; It does seem like there
> is a bit more travel and vacation though. Brian, get back to work; quit
> slacking :-p
>
> Justin
>
> From: phon...@googlegroups.com [mailto:phon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Konstantin Mirin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:48 PM
> To: phon...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PhoneGap] Re: 27% of developers planning to abandon PhoneGap.
> Why?
>
> For our app we needed only Android and iPhone.
> We used Sencha Touch. It has good architecture, lagre number of controls and
> mostly its OK.
>
> Phonegap... I'd never go with it again. For the following reasons:
>
> * 'Official' plugins are not compatible with the newest version. This is
> arguable, but this basically reads: "We don't care what you develop, we just
> release new version. Doesn't work? We don't care".
> * Images from camera are rotating 90 degrees on some phones.
> * File upload API is not working consistently.
> * No readable and correct guidelines for application. I understand, I
> should know that when app goes to background, you can't make your JS work.
> Yes, I should know that you cannot use long polling via iframe because
> you're actually opening local file. Yes, I should know that Android has a
> limitation of 1 MB per JS file. I also should know how Android application
> works internally to debug the starting Phonegap project that doesn't
> compile. I should also know Objective C if I want to install any plugin. And
> yes, I shouldn't use the online build if I want to use ChildBrowser although
> there is a detailed manual there how to include it.
> I uderstand, I should know that. However I'm JS (that is JavaScript, not
> Objective C or Java) developer as most of us here. I know programming and I
> can sort all those issue, but I want to know about them beforehand so I
> could plan time for those.
> Is it so hard to write it clearly somewhere? Oh, yes, that spoils the market
> position of a "world's most popular mobile development platform". Titanium
> is not advertised so hugely, it doesn't have so much hype, but I could get
> Facebook connection working there in 20 mins with NO prior experience!
> * By the way, you can't distribute you iphone app if you use online
> phon...@googlegroups.com<mailto:phon...@googlegroups.com>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> phonegap+u...@googlegroups.com<mailto:phonegap+u...@googlegroups.com>
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/phonegap?hl=en?hl=en
>
> For more info on PhoneGap or to download the code go to
> www.phonegap.com<http://www.phonegap.com>
Horst
Ohhh... a new iOS version... ohhh... it needs a new xcode... oh... this needs a new osx...
ohhh.. UDID cant be used anymore... ohhh... all ad networks dont't work anymore... ohhh.. .just update all ad sdks and all apps again....
ohhh... the new samsung has ICS and 1280x1024 pixel with pixelRatio 2... ohhh... old apps are displayey very crapy... ohhh... just make a update...
ohhh... market is now called play... just update all texts in all websites...
ohhh... apple has decided to trash some localstore data... ohhh.... my users loose all data... just some funny days making support....
Mobile world is fast. Maybe to fast for a old man. Iam coding since 30 years. Every week a new horror. And only for a few you can blame phonegap... iam sure, other frameworks have the same problems...
The only thing i dont like with phonegap is the documentation. But hey... everyone can contribute making it better...
Just my 2 cents
best regards
Hrost
Devgeeks
Konstantin Mirin
Making Android version of 'official' Facebook plugin remember last
authToken without refreshing is a bug. Moving page correctly in 1.3 and
covering it with keyboard in 1.4.1 is a bug. Just to name a few. I
understand what open source is. But I don't understand how can you
release something with such bugs. Call it unstable beta and tell you
have no time to fix it, but make it clear!
B@ron
exp :-)
On 27 mar, 05:41, Toshiya TSURU <turutos...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm also interested in this topic.
> Because, in Japan, There are only very few developers using PhoneGap.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:31:22 AM UTC+9, jxp wrote:
>
> > I saw a report today (http://www.visionmobile.com/crossplatformtools.php)
> > that although PhoneGap is top for current and intended usage as a
> > Cross-platform mobile environment, it also got a score of 27% planning to
> > abandon it.
>
simon knuijver
index.html where you can use some simple css and html while the larger
sripts like jqm and cordava load after. Instead it seems to take 30
seconds loading its classes and then taking another 30 seconds to load
the scripts, that's the problem.
I only use phonegap for simple frontend apps where the customer doesnt
pay enough to make native apps, which is what I'd do anyway once I
start with db stuff, a webservice etc. where I start working from a
programming language. Basically what it's for or should be for is
this, delivering "webpages as apps" and cross platform. Cordova should
focus on this large simple app market. We are up against guys like
twoppy, business apps, red foundry. Giving us this same ability, but
more flexible toward the jquerymobile design, throwing in customer
demanded scripts. Twoppy even gives you just a url, the end user
apparently prefers this over downloading and installing a "real" app.
Now if the sloth problem I mentioned before can't be solved I'd even
switch to native reusable codebases for these simple apps. Sure, the
new build web service saves a few hours, the end user doesnt give a
dime.
Shazron
> index.html where you can use some simple css and html while the larger
> sripts like jqm and cordava load after. Instead it seems to take 30
> seconds loading its classes and then taking another 30 seconds to load
> the scripts, that's the problem.
Hi Simon, what platform is this? Android? Thanks.
Sam
simon k
http://groups.google.com/group/phonegap/browse_thread/thread/e5837ee19b9a903e/953b151a2d957c8c#953b151a2d957c8c
I think for any app, you will have to load scripts after the classes,
right?
although I can imagine something's wrong here, why does
softkeyboarddetect (seem to) take 30 secs.?
Noli Sicad
What is the total kb (i.e. index.html + css and js files)?
Noli
simon k
it's jquerymobile.min + jquery.min + cordova + index.html: I need
them,
but even when i cut out the rest of the files (pictures, css etc.)
it's this slow
it would be nice if you could just cut out all the library parts that
you don't need,
i.e. the camera and so from the classes and .js to win a little time,
or doesn't the part of the code you don't use not load anyway,
for example because you don't give the permissions in the manifest?
it would also be nice if the whole lot would just run faster, the
softkeyboarddetect may be a bug?
maybe i'll debug theponegap java classes some time
Justin Harrison
Justin
--
Justin Harrison
Simon MacDonald
I believe that Bryce addressed your issue with the app talking a long time to startup on another thread. I guess you were delaying the start by displaying a splash screen.
Simon Mac Donald
http://hi.im/simonmacdonald
simon k
it's true that I need to display a splash screen, but the 30000 is
because if I set it lower or take it out, the startup will
malfunction. I get a timeout error file:///assets/www.index.html
failed to connect to server error. I'm sure you recognize? My code
supposedly shows the splash screen during this period, while it's
starting up (and taking a long time with the softkeyboarddetect)
It's good to hear that you are working on performance.
Simon
simon k
that's true, I also have apps that start up quickly. Like the Applaud
and Phonegap tutorial apps. Perhaps I should start over from one of
those.
Any tips?
Simon