Sign-in sheets in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse
Mike and Joan Divine
I understand that a large portion of the dues we pay as well as other sources of income like the BRC goes toward the vast sign-in sheet archive on paper going back to the 1970s. The custodians for this archive are a diligent though somewhat morose lot (most of them look like Bernie Sanders) who wait expectantly for a sign-in sheet request from the club that isn’t likely to come any time soon.
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:waterfo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 3:52 PM
To: Polly Choate <scoot...@yahoo.com>; Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com>
Cc: Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com>; peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
I thought the we needed to keep the sign up sheets on file for insurance purposes. If the only ones on file involve an accident, then there's no way we're going to get insurance! ;-)
On Sun, Oct 2, 2016, 09:58 'Polly Choate' via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Matt Birnbaum replied that I should continue sending them in. He is club President so I will still send them it, but to Dan Lehman.
Polly
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 2, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com> wrote:I too wasn’t aware that sending in sign-in sheets was no longer required. I just kept them for a year and pitched them. Sort of like a physics experiment. If you keep getting negative results, you get your answer. When I was a ride coordinator years ago, I scanned the names looking for new leaders. I guess nobody has the patience to do that anymore. The reality was that if nothing happened on the ride, keeping them was meaningless.
From: 'Polly Choate' via Pedalers [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:04 PM
To: Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com>
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
Hi All,
I lead weekly C rides on from GLE on Thursdays. No one ever told me NOT to submit the sign up sheets. So I send them every month to Sherri Core.
Do I would like someone in authority with the club to tell me Yes or No. Do I need to submit them or not???
Thanks.
Polly Choate
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 25, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com> wrote:Submission of sign in sheets has not been required for several years now. The original thought was that people would sign up on the web site, but that never took hold because it was a tedious and byzantine process (I'm holding back here). And then there was the issue of impromptu rides. Before these changes, too, sign in sheets were sent to the ride leaders in advance of rides each month by diligent volunteers. That process also ceased when the requirement to submit them to the ride captain ceased. So, most ride leaders I know (myself included) hang on to the sign in sheet for some random period of time after the ride, and then dispose of them (by shredding, in my case). Carol
From: peda...@googlegroups.com <peda...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:48 PM
To: Ron Trueworthy
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-billion-in-gift-cards-go-unredeemed-2013-11-27
Gift cards are not exactly the most imaginative gift in the world, but they are easy to give and even easier re-gift. Yet despite their convenience, a surprising ...
1 Billion in gift cards to unredeemed annually.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 8:27 PM, ron.trueworthy via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Though I would be very happily surprised if PPTC chose to take effective action to increase the number of rides on the Club schedule, I do think it would be possible to do so for less than $5000 per year. I think such an affordable strategy might look like this: ride leaders who submit qualifying sign-up sheets to the Road Captain (sign-up sheets reflecting 5 or more riders per ride in addition to the ride leader) for 10 or more rides per year receive an annual reward of a prepaid Visa or MasterCard loaded with $5 per qualifying ride.
This method incentivizes leading rides in excess of 9 per year with a universally popular reward using an easy-to-administer methodology without penalizing any ride class, or club status (e.g., Lifetime Members). It also rewards only rides actually held (not scheduled and cancelled) which attract a reasonable number of riders. An additional benefit might be increased motivation for ride leaders to submit sign-up sheets - if that is, in fact, desired.
Of course, $5000 per year is a non-trivial expenditure, even for a club like PPTC with substantial assets, and would require a decision that increasing the number of rides was a primary objective of the club.
From: Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com>
To: peda...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 3:42 PM
Subject: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
There has been a lot of recent discussion about the decline in the number of led rides during the usual weekend period. As a former CC and C coordinator, I certainly understand the frustration for getting rides and always having to rely on a small number of regular leaders to fill the schedule. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen on rides over the years who I know have never led a ride. I cannot understand that since I know that leading a ride is certainly not the chore people think it is. I have even offered to help riders become leaders by giving them cuesheets to get started. I know there has been a complaint that the scheduling system is a problem preventing more rides, especially impromptu rides. However, we have several different ways around this problem including the Meetup page. With rare exceptions, the Meetup page is only used for recurring weekday rides. I have hope, but I worry that having a real-time scheduling system won’t increase the number of weekend rides and more leaders.
This brings me to the subject of rewarding leaders who lead 10+ rides. I starting leading in 1988 so I can speak from experience how the club has dealt with this. My favorite worst gift was the calculator with PPTC printed on it. I still have this POS as a reminder of how ludicrous a decision this was at the time (it still works, by the way). Other losers includes a travel coffee mug. The first rule of leader rewards should be that the gift has to be useful for cyclists. Don’t go to one of these firms that create generic crap with logos that is usually given away at conferences. In the 1980s, they gave away cheap T-shirts with rear pockets that were useful. I also didn’t mind cycling socks, cuesheet clips, and other stuff like that. Far and away the best thing was the ride-leader version of the current club jersey. If any other leaders can remember good and bad gifts, please share.
Which brings me to my suggestion for rewarding leaders for next year and possibly forever: free annual dues. Everyone likes a free “ride” when it comes to dues. Almost nobody would complain that this is insufficient reward. The ExCom and others would be freed from the decision that must be made each year of what the gift should be. Nothing has to be ordered, shipped, stored, carried to the annual meeting and passed out, etc. This will obviously cost the club money, but since it knows how many leaders it rewarded last year it can estimate this cost. If it needs to, an adjustment of the current dues could compensate for the loss though I doubt this would bankrupt the club if they didn’t go up.
Mike
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Bruce A. Johnson
Herndon, Virginia
Steve Wartik
Mike and Joan Divine
If he can read those sheets and get anything legible from them, he should get a Nobel Prize. Apparently Bob Dylan doesn’t want his so he can have that one.
Bruce A. Johnson
doesn't collect a dime from PPTC. (Thank you, Dan!) IMHO, what ought
to happen is they should be scanned and stored to disk, then disposed
of. The electronic images should be erased after some number of years
(way less than 50). The point would be to show a potential insuror that
we ran lo these many rides and only got sued once. I don't know if
that's what happens in practice or whether it's necessary. We
absolutely need legal protection for the ride leaders, the club, and the
club's officers. Ed Reardon resigned from the Excom 25-30 years ago
when he realized that the club carried no liability insurance.
I'm not volunteering to do scanning and storing. I can't even keep up
with the papers that come in and are related to my personal stuff.
Bruce A. Johnson
Herndon, Virginia
and nobody wants to read.
-- Mark Twain, "The Disappearance of Literature"
On 10/27/2016 11:07 PM, Mike and Joan Divine wrote:
> If he can read those sheets and get anything legible from them, he
> should get a Nobel Prize. Apparently Bob Dylan doesn’t want his so he
> can have that one.
>
>
>
>
>
> Behalf Of *Steve Wartik
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:04 PM
> *To:* peda...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [pedalers] Sign-in sheets in the Raiders of the Lost Ark
>
>
>
> One day Nate Silver will want data on that important cycling
> demographic, and you'll be thankful the club has all those sign-in
> sheets to supply it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Android-initiated
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com
> <mailto:mikeandj...@erols.com>>
> Date: 10/27/16 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To:
> Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [pedalers] Sign-in sheets in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse
>
> I understand that a large portion of the dues we pay as well as other
> sources of income like the BRC goes toward the vast sign-in sheet
> archive on paper going back to the 1970s. The custodians for this
> archive are a diligent though somewhat morose lot (most of them look
> like Bernie Sanders) who wait expectantly for a sign-in sheet request
> from the club that isn’t likely to come any time soon.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 3:52 PM
> *To:* Polly Choate <scoot...@yahoo.com <mailto:scoot...@yahoo.com>>;
> *Cc:* Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com <mailto:cdli...@hotmail.com>>;
> peda...@googlegroups.com <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
>
>
> I thought the we needed to keep the sign up sheets on file for
> insurance purposes. If the only ones on file involve an accident, then
> there's no way we're going to get insurance! ;-)
>
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2016, 09:58 'Polly Choate' via Pedalers
> <peda...@googlegroups.com <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Matt Birnbaum replied that I should continue sending them in. He is
> club President so I will still send them it, but to Dan Lehman.
>
> Polly
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Mike and Joan Divine
>
> I too wasn’t aware that sending in sign-in sheets was no longer
> required. I just kept them for a year and pitched them. Sort
> of like a physics experiment. If you keep getting negative
> results, you get your answer. When I was a ride coordinator
> years ago, I scanned the names looking for new leaders. I guess
> nobody has the patience to do that anymore. The reality was
> that if nothing happened on the ride, keeping them was
> meaningless.
>
>
>
> [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:04 PM
> *To:* Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com <mailto:cdli...@hotmail.com>>
> *Cc:* peda...@googlegroups.com <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I lead weekly C rides on from GLE on Thursdays. No one ever told
> me NOT to submit the sign up sheets. So I send them every month
> to Sherri Core.
>
> Do I would like someone in authority with the club to tell me
> Yes or No. Do I need to submit them or not???
>
> Thanks.
>
> Polly Choate
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com
>
> Submission of sign in sheets has not been required for
> several years now. The original thought was that people
> would sign up on the web site, but that never took hold
> because it was a tedious and byzantine process (I'm holding
> back here). And then there was the issue of impromptu
> rides. Before these changes, too, sign in sheets were sent
> to the ride leaders in advance of rides each month by
> diligent volunteers. That process also ceased when the
> requirement to submit them to the ride captain ceased. So,
> most ride leaders I know (myself included) hang on to the
> sign in sheet for some random period of time after the ride,
> and then dispose of them (by shredding, in my case). Carol
>
>
>
>
> *From:*peda...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com><peda...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Mariette
> Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com
> <mailto:mariette....@gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:48 PM
> *To:* Ron Trueworthy
> *Cc:* peda...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
>
>
> http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-billion-in-gift-cards-go-unredeemed-2013-11-27
>
>
> $1 billion in gift cards go unredeemed - MarketWatch
>
> www.marketwatch.com <http://www.marketwatch.com>
> Gift cards are not exactly the most imaginative gift in the
> world, but they are easy to give and even easier re-gift.
> Yet despite their convenience, a surprising ...
>
>
>
>
>
> 1 Billion in gift cards to unredeemed annually.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 8:27 PM, ron.trueworthy via Pedalers
> <peda...@googlegroups.com
>
> Though I would be very happily surprised if PPTC chose
> to take effective action to increase the number of rides
> on the Club schedule, I do think it would be possible to
> do so for less than $5000 per year. I think such an
> affordable strategy might look like this: ride leaders
> who submit qualifying sign-up sheets to the Road Captain
> (sign-up sheets reflecting 5 or more riders per ride in
> addition to the ride leader) for 10 or more rides per
> year receive an annual reward of a prepaid Visa or
> MasterCard loaded with $5 per qualifying ride.
>
>
>
> This method incentivizes leading rides in excess of 9
> per year with a universally popular reward using an
> easy-to-administer methodology without penalizing any
> ride class, or club status (e.g., Lifetime Members). It
> also rewards only rides actually held (not scheduled and
> cancelled) which attract a reasonable number of riders.
> An additional benefit might be increased motivation for
> ride leaders to submit sign-up sheets - if that is, in
> fact, desired.
>
>
>
> Of course, $5000 per year is a non-trivial expenditure,
> even for a club like PPTC with substantial assets, and
> would require a decision that increasing the number of
> rides was a primary objective of the club.
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com
> <mailto:mikeandj...@erols.com>>
> *To:* peda...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 24, 2016 3:42 PM
> *Subject:* [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
> <mailto:pedalers-u...@googlegroups.com>
> http://groups.google.com/group/pedalers/post?sendowner=1&hl=en
> For more options, see:
> http://groups.google.com/group/pedalers?hl=en
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> --
> Bruce A. Johnson
> Herndon, Virginia
>
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Steve Wartik
If he can read those sheets and get anything legible from them, he should get a Nobel Prize. Apparently Bob Dylan doesn’t want his so he can have that one.
From: peda...@googlegroups.com [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Wartik
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 9:04 PM
To: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [pedalers] Sign-in sheets in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse
One day Nate Silver will want data on that important cycling demographic, and you'll be thankful the club has all those sign-in sheets to supply it.
Android-initiated
-------- Original message --------
From: Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com>
Date: 10/27/16 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
To:
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [pedalers] Sign-in sheets in the Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse
I understand that a large portion of the dues we pay as well as other sources of income like the BRC goes toward the vast sign-in sheet archive on paper going back to the 1970s. The custodians for this archive are a diligent though somewhat morose lot (most of them look like Bernie Sanders) who wait expectantly for a sign-in sheet request from the club that isn’t likely to come any time soon.
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:waterfo...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 3:52 PM
To: Polly Choate <scoot...@yahoo.com>; Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com>
Cc: Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com>; peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
I thought the we needed to keep the sign up sheets on file for insurance purposes. If the only ones on file involve an accident, then there's no way we're going to get insurance! ;-)
On Sun, Oct 2, 2016, 09:58 'Polly Choate' via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Matt Birnbaum replied that I should continue sending them in. He is club President so I will still send them it, but to Dan Lehman.
Polly
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 2, 2016, at 9:32 AM, Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com> wrote:
I too wasn’t aware that sending in sign-in sheets was no longer required. I just kept them for a year and pitched them. Sort of like a physics experiment. If you keep getting negative results, you get your answer. When I was a ride coordinator years ago, I scanned the names looking for new leaders. I guess nobody has the patience to do that anymore. The reality was that if nothing happened on the ride, keeping them was meaningless.
From: 'Polly Choate' via Pedalers [mailto:peda...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 10:04 PM
To: Carol L. <
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
Hi All,
I lead weekly C rides on from GLE on Thursdays. No one ever told me NOT to submit the sign up sheets. So I send them every month to Sherri Core.
Do I would like someone in authority with the club to tell me Yes or No. Do I need to submit them or not???
Thanks.
Polly Choate
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 25, 2016, at 8:59 PM, Carol L. <cdli...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Submission of sign in sheets has not been required for several years now. The original thought was that people would sign up on the web site, but that never took hold because it was a tedious and byzantine process (I'm holding back here). And then there was the issue of impromptu rides. Before these changes, too, sign in sheets were sent to the ride leaders in advance of rides each month by diligent volunteers. That process also ceased when the requirement to submit them to the ride captain ceased. So, most ride leaders I know (myself included) hang on to the sign in sheet for some random period of time after the ride, and then dispose of them (by shredding, in my case). Carol
From: peda...@googlegroups.com <peda...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mariette Vanderzon <mariette....@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2016 8:48 PM
To: Ron Trueworthy
Cc: peda...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
Gift cards are not exactly the most imaginative gift in the world, but they are easy to give and even easier re-gift. Yet despite their convenience, a surprising ...
1 Billion in gift cards to unredeemed annually.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 8:27 PM, ron.trueworthy via Pedalers <peda...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Though I would be very happily surprised if PPTC chose to take effective action to increase the number of rides on the Club schedule, I do think it would be possible to do so for less than $5000 per year. I think such an affordable strategy might look like this: ride leaders who submit qualifying sign-up sheets to the Road Captain (sign-up sheets reflecting 5 or more riders per ride in addition to the ride leader) for 10 or more rides per year receive an annual reward of a prepaid Visa or MasterCard loaded with $5 per qualifying ride.
This method incentivizes leading rides in excess of 9 per year with a universally popular reward using an easy-to-administer methodology without penalizing any ride class, or club status (e.g., Lifetime Members). It also rewards only rides actually held (not scheduled and cancelled) which attract a reasonable number of riders. An additional benefit might be increased motivation for ride leaders to submit sign-up sheets - if that is, in fact, desired.
Of course, $5000 per year is a non-trivial expenditure, even for a club like PPTC with substantial assets, and would require a decision that increasing the number of rides was a primary objective of the club.
From: Mike and Joan Divine <mikeandj...@erols.com>
To: peda...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 3:42 PM
Subject: [pedalers] Rewarding ride leaders
There has been a lot of recent discussion about the decline in the number of led rides during the usual weekend period. As a former CC and C coordinator, I certainly understand the frustration for getting rides and always having to rely on a small number of regular leaders to fill the schedule. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen on rides over the years who I know have never led a ride. I cannot understand that since I know that leading a ride is certainly not the chore people think it is. I have even offered to help riders become leaders by giving them cuesheets to get started. I know there has been a complaint that the scheduling system is a problem preventing more rides, especially impromptu rides. However, we have several different ways around this problem including the Meetup page. With rare exceptions, the Meetup page is only used for recurring weekday rides. I have hope, but I worry that having a real-time scheduling system won’t increase the number of weekend rides and more leaders.
This brings me to the subject of rewarding leaders who lead 10+ rides. I starting leading in 1988 so I can speak from experience how the club has dealt with this. My favorite worst gift was the calculator with PPTC printed on it. I still have this POS as a reminder of how ludicrous a decision this was at the time (it still works, by the way). Other losers includes a travel coffee mug. The first rule of leader rewards should be that the gift has to be useful for cyclists. Don’t go to one of these firms that create generic crap with logos that is usually given away at conferences. In the 1980s, they gave away cheap T-shirts with rear pockets that were useful. I also didn’t mind cycling socks, cuesheet clips, and other stuff like that. Far and away the best thing was the ride-leader version of the current club jersey. If any other leaders can remember good and bad gifts, please share.
Which brings me to my suggestion for rewarding leaders for next year and possibly forever: free annual dues. Everyone likes a free “ride” when it comes to dues. Almost nobody would complain that this is insufficient reward. The ExCom and others would be freed from the decision that must be made each year of what the gift should be. Nothing has to be ordered, shipped, stored, carried to the annual meeting and passed out, etc. This will obviously cost the club money, but since it knows how many leaders it rewarded last year it can estimate this cost. If it needs to, an adjustment of the current dues could compensate for the loss though I doubt this would bankrupt the club if they didn’t go up.
Mike
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Bruce A. Johnson
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