How do you feel about Google Groups?

[David Celis]

Hi, friends! It's me, your friendly neighborhood David Celis. I wanted to talk to y'all about Google Groups. I can't image that this topic hasn't been brought up before. Maybe it's been a while, as evidenced by my search through past threads yielding no results. I'll just go ahead and ask, so ready your flamethrowers:

How does everybody feel about continuing on with Google Groups? Are y'all satisfied with using it as our online communication mechanism? I personally haven't been a fan of it for a while, for a few reasons.

1. No categorization, pinning, or setting importance of messages. The only way to do this really is doing the whole [PREFIX] thing, or making totally new mailing lists (such as we have done with pdxruby-business or pdxruby-beginners). Then we end up with either a bunch of different mailing lists or a hodgepodge of topics in the main one (which we already have).
   
2. It's controlled by the Google Overlords! ... Okay, that's mostly a joke. But I do think that, at our current size and as we grow, perhaps we would want a tool that we do have more control over. Considering certain recent events and discussion, I think that our group is approaching needing some sort of moderation capabilities.
   
3. It's just not pleasant to use. I recognize that this is merely opinion, but I imagine that Google Groups isn't the most friendly tool to lure people from our in-person meetups. I'd like to see more discussion happening online since we only meet once a month, and I'm surprised that we don't have more active conversations here considering the size of our meetups now! I know that I haven't participated in online discussion as much as I'd like, and partially that's because of frustration and disappointment with Google Groups.
   

I would personally much prefer to see us using software that is meant to be used as a discussion forum as opposed to a mailing list for announcements. I would be more than happy to setup, host, and maintain a Discourse installation or something similar for PDX Ruby if there were interest. I'd just like something that feels a bit more community-ish, is more welcoming to newcomers, and is generally nicer to use.

[Matthew Boeh]

I have yet to find a forum package with a user interface I'd rather use than an email client. That said, the best way to find out if people will use a forum is to set it up and see if people use it, I think.

My understanding is that Discourse has email notifications and reply by email sufficient to use it like a mailing list. That might help those of us who prefer email.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/c74332b6-71ae-497a-9818-4d3612d8b331%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Jesse Cooke]

Thoughts and questions inline below, but also:
Would we import discussions into the new system? Would we sunset Groups?

On Mar 14, 2015 5:36 PM, "David Celis" <m...@davidcel.is> wrote:
>
> Hi, friends! It's me, your friendly neighborhood David Celis. I wanted to talk to y'all about Google Groups. I can't image that this topic hasn't been brought up before. Maybe it's been a while, as evidenced by my search through past threads yielding no results. I'll just go ahead and ask, so ready your flamethrowers:
>
> How does everybody feel about continuing on with Google Groups? Are y'all satisfied with using it as our online communication mechanism? I personally haven't been a fan of it for a while, for a few reasons.

Since I use it exclusively via email it works fine for me. Yes, the web interface isn't great, but I also don't know how many active members use it over email.

> No categorization, pinning, or setting importance of messages. The only way to do this really is doing the whole [PREFIX] thing, or making totally new mailing lists (such as we have done with pdxruby-business or pdxruby-beginners). Then we end up with either a bunch of different mailing lists or a hodgepodge of topics in the main one (which we already have).

I personally haven't ever felt the need for categorization, pinning, or adjusting of levels. Are those features that get used with great effect by other forum packages?

Also, I'm not sure how moving over to something else would help us in our organization with respect to the other lists. Seems like it would be the same as merging those other lists back into the main list, but I'd argue they should be separate beasts.

> It's controlled by the Google Overlords! ... Okay, that's mostly a joke. But I do think that, at our current size and as we grow, perhaps we would want a tool that we do have more control over. Considering certain recent events and discussion, I think that our group is approaching needing some sort of moderation capabilities.

We have moderation capabilities with the current setup, we would just prefer not to use them.

> It's just not pleasant to use. I recognize that this is merely opinion, but I imagine that Google Groups isn't the most friendly tool to lure people from our in-person meetups. I'd like to see more discussion happening online since we only meet once a month, and I'm surprised that we don't have more active conversations here considering the size of our meetups now! I know that I haven't participated in online discussion as much as I'd like, and partially that's because of frustration and disappointment with Google Groups.
> I would personally much prefer to see us using software that is meant to be used as a discussion forum as opposed to a mailing list for announcements. I would be more than happy to setup, host, and maintain a Discourse installation or something similar for PDX Ruby if there were interest. I'd just like something that feels a bit more community-ish, is more welcoming to newcomers, and is generally nicer to use.

Is there a way to see percentages of how people use Google Groups, and the domains registered (gmail, yahoo, etc)? I'm not convinced that creating another account on another system would be more welcoming to newcomers.

[David Celis]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 5:25:41 PM UTC-7, Jesse Cooke wrote:

Thoughts and questions inline below, but also:
Would we import discussions into the new system? Would we sunset Groups?

An import is certainly possible, but there wouldn't be any way to link discussion from Google Groups to a user created on the new system. They could be imported under an "anonymous" account. I think that's fine as long as the original poster's email address is displayed so that we can at least tell who posted what at a glance. And yes, my preference would be to sunset Groups aside from having multiple communities running in tandem. If people would still see a use specifically for a mailing list, we could keep it around. But I'm not sure what that use would be.

 

On Mar 14, 2015 5:36 PM, "David Celis" <m...@davidcel.is> wrote:
Hi, friends! It's me, your friendly neighborhood David Celis. I wanted to talk to y'all about Google Groups. I can't image that this topic hasn't been brought up before. Maybe it's been a while, as evidenced by my search through past threads yielding no results. I'll just go ahead and ask, so ready your flamethrowers:
How does everybody feel about continuing on with Google Groups? Are y'all satisfied with using it as our online communication mechanism? I personally haven't been a fan of it for a while, for a few reasons.

Since I use it exclusively via email it works fine for me. Yes, the web interface isn't great, but I also don't know how many active members use it over email.

I'm definitely one of the people who prefers not to use email whenever possible, so I disabled any sort of digest here so that I could come to the web interface on my own terms. GG is fine and dandy for those who prefer email, but as mentioned previously Discourse does have the same sort of email notifications and reply system.

 

No categorization, pinning, or setting importance of messages. The only way to do this really is doing the whole [PREFIX] thing, or making totally new mailing lists (such as we have done with pdxruby-business or pdxruby-beginners). Then we end up with either a bunch of different mailing lists or a hodgepodge of topics in the main one (which we already have).

I personally haven't ever felt the need for categorization, pinning, or adjusting of levels. Are those features that get used with great effect by other forum packages?

That's fair, and it probably doesn't seem terribly necessary because I wouldn't consider the pdxruby mailing list to be the most active of communities. But I'd like that to change. Categorization may be something that isn't as necessary, but I would certainly appreciate the filterability of, for example, just never seeing the [JOB] posts.

 

Also, I'm not sure how moving over to something else would help us in our organization with respect to the other lists. Seems like it would be the same as merging those other lists back into the main list, but I'd argue they should be separate beasts.

My point there was that because we have three mailing lists, it almost seems like we're already treating Google Groups like a discussion board with a set of forums. But I don't think that it works very well in that respect.

 

It's controlled by the Google Overlords! ... Okay, that's mostly a joke. But I do think that, at our current size and as we grow, perhaps we would want a tool that we do have more control over. Considering certain recent events and discussion, I think that our group is approaching needing some sort of moderation capabilities.

We have moderation capabilities with the current setup, we would just prefer not to use them.

Fair. I think this is going to become a different conversation, though

 

It's just not pleasant to use. I recognize that this is merely opinion, but I imagine that Google Groups isn't the most friendly tool to lure people from our in-person meetups. I'd like to see more discussion happening online since we only meet once a month, and I'm surprised that we don't have more active conversations here considering the size of our meetups now! I know that I haven't participated in online discussion as much as I'd like, and partially that's because of frustration and disappointment with Google Groups. 
I would personally much prefer to see us using software that is meant to be used as a discussion forum as opposed to a mailing list for announcements. I would be more than happy to setup, host, and maintain a Discourse installation or something similar for PDX Ruby if there were interest. I'd just like something that feels a bit more community-ish, is more welcoming to newcomers, and is generally nicer to use.

Is there a way to see percentages of how people use Google Groups, and the domains registered (gmail, yahoo, etc)? I'm not convinced that creating another account on another system would be more welcoming to newcomers.

 Of that, I'm not sure. I have no idea what sort of data Google provides out of Groups. My gut feeling is "not much" but I'm not an administrator of any sort, so I don't have access to that.

[Chris Hough]

Has there been any consideration for Meetup.com?  

I know many other cities using this already with huge communities.  I would gladly toss in a little cash for that.  Cheap.  Easy to configure.  Super easy to manage events, forums, etc. 

Just a few pennies in the fountain after living in many major tech hubs. 

[Jesse Cooke]

I set up http://www.meetup.com/Portland-Ruby-Brigade/ but I'm not sure how good meetup is for discussions, especially code-related discussions.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/488fda46-c37f-4f25-9578-43c9c480ba81%40googlegroups.com.

[Chris Hough]

I would think code discussions, at least on specific snippets would work best as gists. 

Even in Discourse forums I have seen that approach work better than in-line collaboration. 

Just a thought on that piece.  

The forums, threading, events planning, etc. are top notch on meetup.  Plus we can integrate easier with larger communities outside of PDX.  

[Jesse Cooke]

I'd be up for trying out something else, as long as it allows for several kinds of interaction. Mainly I don't want to change how I interact, but that's just me being selfish ;-)

On Mar 14, 2015 8:11 PM, "David Celis" <m...@davidcel.is> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 5:25:41 PM UTC-7, Jesse Cooke wrote:
>>
>> Thoughts and questions inline below, but also:
>> Would we import discussions into the new system? Would we sunset Groups?
>
> An import is certainly possible, but there wouldn't be any way to link discussion from Google Groups to a user created on the new system. They could be imported under an "anonymous" account. I think that's fine as long as the original poster's email address is displayed so that we can at least tell who posted what at a glance. And yes, my preference would be to sunset Groups aside from having multiple communities running in tandem. If people would still see a use specifically for a mailing list, we could keep it around. But I'm not sure what that use would be.
>  
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2015 5:36 PM, "David Celis" <m...@davidcel.is> wrote:
>>> Hi, friends! It's me, your friendly neighborhood David Celis. I wanted to talk to y'all about Google Groups. I can't image that this topic hasn't been brought up before. Maybe it's been a while, as evidenced by my search through past threads yielding no results. I'll just go ahead and ask, so ready your flamethrowers:
>>> How does everybody feel about continuing on with Google Groups? Are y'all satisfied with using it as our online communication mechanism? I personally haven't been a fan of it for a while, for a few reasons.
>>
>> Since I use it exclusively via email it works fine for me. Yes, the web interface isn't great, but I also don't know how many active members use it over email.
>
> I'm definitely one of the people who prefers not to use email whenever possible, so I disabled any sort of digest here so that I could come to the web interface on my own terms. GG is fine and dandy for those who prefer email, but as mentioned previously Discourse does have the same sort of email notifications and reply system.

So it would be possible for me to receive an email for every new post with Discourse? I'm one of those people that prefer email over checking a site. Hopefully any new system we would potentially switch to would handle both cases.

>  
>>>
>>> No categorization, pinning, or setting importance of messages. The only way to do this really is doing the whole [PREFIX] thing, or making totally new mailing lists (such as we have done with pdxruby-business or pdxruby-beginners). Then we end up with either a bunch of different mailing lists or a hodgepodge of topics in the main one (which we already have).
>>
>> I personally haven't ever felt the need for categorization, pinning, or adjusting of levels. Are those features that get used with great effect by other forum packages?
>
> That's fair, and it probably doesn't seem terribly necessary because I wouldn't consider the pdxruby mailing list to be the most active of communities. But I'd like that to change. Categorization may be something that isn't as necessary, but I would certainly appreciate the filterability of, for example, just never seeing the [JOB] posts.
>  
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure how moving over to something else would help us in our organization with respect to the other lists. Seems like it would be the same as merging those other lists back into the main list, but I'd argue they should be separate beasts.
>
> My point there was that because we have three mailing lists, it almost seems like we're already treating Google Groups like a discussion board with a set of forums. But I don't think that it works very well in that respect.
>  
>>>
>>> It's controlled by the Google Overlords! ... Okay, that's mostly a joke. But I do think that, at our current size and as we grow, perhaps we would want a tool that we do have more control over. Considering certain recent events and discussion, I think that our group is approaching needing some sort of moderation capabilities.
>>
>> We have moderation capabilities with the current setup, we would just prefer not to use them.
>
> Fair. I think this is going to become a different conversation, though

>  
>>>
>>> It's just not pleasant to use. I recognize that this is merely opinion, but I imagine that Google Groups isn't the most friendly tool to lure people from our in-person meetups. I'd like to see more discussion happening online since we only meet once a month, and I'm surprised that we don't have more active conversations here considering the size of our meetups now! I know that I haven't participated in online discussion as much as I'd like, and partially that's because of frustration and disappointment with Google Groups. 
>>> I would personally much prefer to see us using software that is meant to be used as a discussion forum as opposed to a mailing list for announcements. I would be more than happy to setup, host, and maintain a Discourse installation or something similar for PDX Ruby if there were interest. I'd just like something that feels a bit more community-ish, is more welcoming to newcomers, and is generally nicer to use.
>>
>> Is there a way to see percentages of how people use Google Groups, and the domains registered (gmail, yahoo, etc)? I'm not convinced that creating another account on another system would be more welcoming to newcomers.
>
>  Of that, I'm not sure. I have no idea what sort of data Google provides out of Groups. My gut feeling is "not much" but I'm not an administrator of any sort, so I don't have access to that.

Yeah, that question wasn't directed at you as much as to others that know Groups better than I do.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/71e3db23-b582-46ad-a19c-be872c6ffcf8%40googlegroups.com.

[Jerry Hilts]

Call me old and crusty, but I still think e-mail (with an online archive like Google Groups) is the best interface.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/CAFgS5CwaK6d5patFHYms8XM9tK0%3D-_Kf02BBbBY6EGbtGzOcSA%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Celis]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 7:48:48 PM UTC-7, Jesse Cooke wrote:

I'd be up for trying out something else, as long as it allows for several kinds of interaction. Mainly I don't want to change how I interact, but that's just me being selfish ;-)

So it would be possible for me to receive an email for every new post with Discourse? I'm one of those people that prefer email over checking a site. Hopefully any new system we would potentially switch to would handle both cases.

Yup. Discourse is very email friendly. They have the option to receive an email for every single post (unless you've personally muted the thread or the person posting), and you can just reply via email. 

[Joe Cohen]

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 6:36:21 PM UTC-4, David Celis wrote:

...

 Although Google Groups is not slick and rich, it's satisfactory for me.  There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple.

How does everybody feel about continuing on with Google Groups? Are y'all satisfied with using it as our online communication mechanism? I personally haven't been a fan of it for a while, for a few reasons.

1. No categorization, pinning, or setting importance of messages. The only way to do this really is doing the whole [PREFIX] thing, or making totally new mailing lists (such as we have done with pdxruby-business or pdxruby-beginners). Then we end up with either a bunch of different mailing lists or a hodgepodge of topics in the main one (which we already have). 

Google Groups can optionally be configured to have tags and/or categories, but the tags or categories must be created by admins. This could work as a way to fold pdxruby-business and pdxruby-beginners into pdxruby.

[Davy Stevenson]

This would be a great community discussion to have at one of the upcoming meetings. Over the past few years there have been a lot more people attending the meetings, and the group seems to be getting more diverse, which is great. However, I haven’t seen the same level of change on the mailing list. 

The responses seen so far are by the most part coming from the same voices that frequent the mailing list. Not that this is a bad thing, and I thank you all for your opinions! :) It does make me wonder, however, why we aren’t hearing more from the newer members of the group. It seems like the discussions on the mailing list are going to self-select for people who (surprise!) already like using this format for discussion. 

Opening it up to a wider discussion could be really valuable, and I for one would love to see if we couldn’t increase the participation from the larger Ruby community. It would be valuable to hear from newer group members any reasons that might be preventing them from speaking up on the list.

I would be interested in seeing if there might be a better format for discussion besides Google Groups. I do not want to see the group fragment, however, and in my opinion any new format would have to be substantially better in a few ways (the definition of ‘better’ to be determined) in order to make a switch worthwhile.

Generating more discussions from a broader group of people in a safer environment would be things I would consider to be an improvement. Importing history is not important to me. I would assume the Google Group history would remain, and there have been zero times where I have needed to look very far back in PDX.rb mailing list history.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/c74332b6-71ae-497a-9818-4d3612d8b331%40googlegroups.com.

[Matthew Boeh]

On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:11 PM David Celis <m...@davidcel.is> wrote:

[snip] 

And yes, my preference would be to sunset Groups aside from having multiple communities running in tandem. If people would still see a use specifically for a mailing list, we could keep it around. But I'm not sure what that use would be.

The advantage of a mailing list, for me, is that I don't have to sign up for a separate account to keep apprised of the goings-on of a particular community. I follow a number of mailing lists and exactly zero forums. I would like to see the mailing list retained for announcements, if nothing else.

[Lance Ivy]

>  It would be valuable to hear from newer group members any reasons that might be preventing them from speaking up on the list.

I've been lurking for a few months and considered replying a couple of times before realizing that I'm only about to repeat someone else. So I've been quiet simply because I haven't had anything to add. New software wouldn't change that.

It sounds like the OP prefers a pull-based method of engagement, and I do agree that Google Groups is a bit crusty there. Personally I prefer push, and when it comes to email, Google Groups is indistinguishable. I would only use whatever new platform long enough to configure email settings.

If the goal here is to increase active participation, my instinct is that we'll get further by considering what sorts of discussions we think we're missing. Folks will put up with just about any groups platform if there's a thriving discussion they want to join.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/CAMVJ%2Bo24u-6cDk2eV0hLgs%3D%3Dah9B6Jz6rUggYKKURAZYpmDj9w%40mail.gmail.com.

[John Wilger]

+billions to what Lance said.

I'm certainly not the most active member of the group (and I miss you all!), but if I wasn't getting the occasional interesting message dropped into my email, I'd likely lose touch entirely. Job + 5 kids + 10-15 hours a week training on the bike doesn't leave a lot of extra room for actively perusing Internet forums.

If we switch to something that keeps the email participation virtually unchanged, then whatever, but please do not make email participation an afterthought. 

-- 

Regards, 

John Wilger

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/CAO0G-Y6vCi_K%3Df%3D%3DUK2ygCT1rinFfMEfMU4d9Xt37MDv%2Bkmg2w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jerry Hilts]

+1

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/51FB2B23-B114-4B11-A767-E26C481275F2%40gmail.com.

[Sam Livingston-Gray]

[Speaking as someone who's been on this list since before it was on GG]

My only exposure to Discourse is via the Ruby Rogues Parley group, and it's... okay.  It has some cute features like faving/liking/<3ing/whatever, and tracking how many clicks a link gets, and PMs, but I don't find any of them especially compelling.  It also completely breaks OS X keyboard shortcuts, which is annoying, but not bad enough to make me ragequit.  Threading is... okay, but not great.

Ultimately, though, I'm with Team Email on this one:  I found that my engagement with that group dropped significantly once messages stopped coming to my inbox.  (I don't think the email features were there when they switched, and I've been too lazy to bother setting them up since.)

As previously mentioned, however, my own use case is probably not the most important one; I'm going to get something out of this group whatever form our electronic communications take.  If Discourse turns out to be more approachable for a more diverse group of people, then Discourse is what we should use.

Just as long as I can mostly pretend it's still just an email list, that is.  ;>

[Speaking as someone who's been administering GG for a couple of years]

If Discourse offers finer-grained moderation policies, that would definitely be appealing.  Having all posts [Jobs] be moderated by default, for instance, would help us avoid the "oops I accidentally informed 1k+ people that I'm looking for work" problem.  And, being able to set moderation on specific threads might have been a useful tool about a month ago.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/8E9C94E5-1FD3-46B6-AE67-4DF788551F1D%40gmail.com.

[Jesse Æ Wolfe]

Has anyone tried or considered Threadable? ( https://threadable.com/ )

They're a relatively new startup, trying to just nail email lists with a good web-UI.

I know some of the people who work there - they were scratch-an-itch founders

who were tired of GG mailing lists for their local communities.

~Jesse

[David Celis]

Thanks for your thoughts so far, everybody! It sounds like lots of people here prefer email as a format. I definitely don't want to take that away from anybody, so rest assured that any change I'd be proposing would be supportive to maintaining good integration with simple email conversations. I do think Davy hit the nail on the head when she said that the discussions on the mailing list are going to self-select for people who already prefer email. Not that this is a bad thing, but I think she had good advice for me when she suggested that we make this a more accessible conversation and one of our upcoming meetings.

[Jesse Cooke]

I was reminded of Threadable just yesterday! Worth looking into, though I didn't see that much on their site.

Does anyone have experience using it?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/CAPg0CiPSYhy%2B7BFO97gE8r%3DcwyiCAu80Fdw%2BCDfjKEVV0mWTmw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Skip Spitzer]

Hi all,

Insofar as this thread includes the idea of supporting participation: I posted once to this list, about 2+ years ago, as a developer with a project seeking others who might want to get involved. Two or more respondents began a discussion, not with me, but with each other, making fun of the post, feasting on the language like it was meat for hungry frat boys. After expressing my surprise about this I received an apology of sorts, indicating that on this list that kind of participation is some kind of sport normally aimed at recruiters' posts. Since then I haven't considered this a place to become part of, but rather monitor for value. The recent kerfuffle reminded me that there is something really not quite right here.

Not pointing any fingers. I don't know who the leadership is, or who has taken what measures, and I know that in communities the expectation of leadership is best not thought of as just for principals, but for any community member.

My main point is that broader participation is not a matter of the software (although there's nothing wrong with finding the most fitting tools of course). It's about setting and enforcing a tone in which participation is a useful and positive experience for all.

On the tool question, I'd also like to see a solution that can push.

Best,

Skip

[Chris Hough]

Did this die, or did we decide to move forward with discourse?  

On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 3:36:21 PM UTC-7, David Celis wrote:

[Shawna Scott]

If people really, really want to move away from Google groups, they should put together a little Google form poll to send out to the group and see what the overall consensus looks like. I would hate for us to rip out architecture to solve one person's pain point, or to choose something that 80% of people will hate as a new option if there is consensus around moving away from Google Groups.

David, would you be willing to put something like that together?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pdxruby" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to pdxruby+u...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to pdx...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/pdxruby/2de21930-2a3a-4ba2-a4ad-b0ace3622cfa%40googlegroups.com.