Fw: [HISTARCH] Australian Archaeologists Find a Big Pile of Debitage

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Gary Vines

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Apr 8, 2016, 12:36:48 AM4/8/16
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Forwarded from HistArch – evidently the Randwick find does not impress some US archaeologists.

 

 

 

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Australian Archaeologists Find a Big Pile of Debitage

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And all of a sudden it’s a “ceremonial meeting place of national significance.” Really?

 

Lots of great photos...of debitage.  http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-to-halt-sydney-light-rail-after-massive-indigenous-artefact-find-20160329-gnsxr4.html

 

Robert

 

 

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Gary Vines
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Gary Vines

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Apr 8, 2016, 12:52:14 AM4/8/16
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and now there are "...concerns it could be a mass Aboriginal grave."

g

Jeannette Hope

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Apr 8, 2016, 2:08:44 AM4/8/16
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I grew up in Randwick / Maroubra and regularly caught the tram along Alison Road, 1940s-60s (the one they are now replicating with the light rail!).  The Moreton Bay figs (one allegedly marking a mass grave) are historical plantings – first along Anzac Parade in the 1860s and then in Moore Park and Centennial Park (on the north side of Alison Road at this point). 

 

I know a bit about the history of this area*, but nothing about Aboriginal sites.  Is this unusual/ unique in size and content?  Given the sandstone geology I assume the raw material for all artefacts in this area had to come from somewhere else.

 

Jeannette Hope

 

*Trivial pursuit:  The family home in Randwick was called ‘Don Juan’ after Byron’s work of that name, because it was adjacent to Jewish musician Isaac Nathan’s 1853 land grant ‘Byron Lodge’.  Nearby was Ada Lane, named for the mathematician Ada Lovelace, Byron’s daughter.  Nathan  collected Aboriginal music and incorporated it into the European tradition, including a lament inspired by the 1838 Myall Creek massacre. He died in 1864 when run down in Pitt Street while alighting from a horse-drawn tram.

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john...@ozemail.com.au

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Apr 8, 2016, 9:48:06 PM4/8/16
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Jeanette,

Re http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-to-halt-sydney-light-rail-after-massive-indigenous-artefact-find-20160329-gnsxr4.html --- what about the "marriage stones"?

Do you know those .. ? .... or did you see any when you lived at Randwick.

I used to go there to UNSW for Geology I --- and some called it the university in the sand dunes but has all that dune sand now been covered up?    I have not been "Back to Randwick" for yonks.

That is why I would like to return and lay mine eyes on the new "massive indigenous artefact find".

I doubt Uncle Des (or whoever it was who's saying a mark on a Moreton Bay fig at the Randwick find) means a nearby grave .. but I am nonetheless at least thankful re Uncle Des that he goes around saying things ---- for it was some words of his, to a consultant for Hawkesbury Council, that first set me off on the path leading to my belief that there was a 'second Blacktown' at Freeman's Reach heights, above Bushell's Lagoon where you can find "Blacktown Road" on the street directory  (something that is still being adamantly denied by Hawkesbury Council ~ but I of course think they are wrong).

Re "Is this unusual/ unique in size and content?" at Randwick .. 22,000 (and still counting?) Aboriginal artefacts in a small area would seem unusual to me.    I have earlier today sent about other high volume sites (as being discussed) that might be in Sydney region.   But others should know better about that than I.

Do you know where to find Nathan's lament for the 1838 Myall Creek massacre?

 

Cheers,

 

John Byrnes


 


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RE: {OzArch} Fw: [HISTARCH] Australian Archaeologists Find a Big Pile of Debitage

I grew up in Randwick / Maroubra and regularly caught the tram along Alison Road, 1940s-60s (the one they are now replicating with the light rail!).  The Moreton Bay figs (one allegedly marking a mass grave) are historical plantings – first along Anzac Parade in the 1860s and then in Moore Park and Centennial Park (on the north side of Alison Road at this point).   

I know a bit about the history of this area*, but nothing about Aboriginal sites.  Is this unusual/ unique in size and content?  Given the sandstone geology I assume the raw material for all artefacts in this area had to come from somewhere else. 

Jeannette Hope 

*Trivial pursuit:  The family home in Randwick was called ‘Don Juan’ after Byron’s work of that name, because it was adjacent to Jewish musician Isaac Nathan’s 1853 land grant ‘Byron Lodge’.  Nearby was Ada Lane, named for the mathematician Ada Lovelace, Byron’s daughter.  Nathan  collected Aboriginal music and incorporated it into the European tradition, including a lament inspired by the 1838 Myall Creek massacre. He died in 1864 when run down in Pitt Street while alighting from a horse-drawn tram. 

 

From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vines
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2016 2:37 PM
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Subject: {OzArch} Fw: [HISTARCH] Australian Archaeologists Find a Big Pile of Debitage

 

Forwarded from HistArch – evidently the Randwick find does not impress some US archaeologists. 

Thu, 7 Apr 2016 12:41:32 -0500

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And all of a sudden it’s a “ceremonial meeting place of national significance.” Really?

 

Lots of great photos...of debitage.  http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/call-to-halt-sydney-light-rail-after-massive-indigenous-artefact-find-20160329-gnsxr4.html

 

Robert

 

 

Subscription options and archives available: http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/arch-l.html

 

Gary Vines

Senior Consultant Archaeologist

  

Mobile: 0428 526 898

Direct: (03) 8686 4814

Email: GVi...@biosis.com.au

   

Leaders in Ecology and Heritage Consulting

38 Bertie Street (PO Box 489) Port Melbourne VIC 3207

ph: (03) 8686 4800 fax: (03) 9646 9242

biosis.com.au


The information transmitted including attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain copyright material, or information that is confidential or is exempt from disclosure by law. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender except where the sender expressly and with authority states them to be the views of Biosis Pty Ltd. Biosis Pty Ltd does not represent that this email is free of errors, viruses or interference. When using email to communicate with Biosis Pty Ltd, access to that information by Biosis Pty Ltd personnel is strictly limited and controlled.

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Denis Gojak

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Apr 9, 2016, 1:02:19 AM4/9/16
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John 

'Nathan's lament for the 1838 Myall Creek massacre?'


Isaac Nathan arrived in Australia in 1841, so three years after the massacre.  He created music for Aboriginal songs captured by Eliza Dunlop, who also wrote original poetry, one of which was 'The Aboriginal mother' written directly in response to the Myall Creek massacre.  It was published in the Australian [Trove]. 

Trove references a version of Dunlop's poem set to music by Nathan, as being held in the University of Queensland Library [here].  It says that its a copy of an original in the Mitchell Library, which has several sets of published and unpublished Nathan musical scores.  Its certainly not included in his Southern Euphrosyne, which has other material by Dunlop.

The Nathan-Dunlop collaborations inspired the mad speculations of Frederic Slater about Aboriginal language in the 1930s, which would in turn fuel Steve and Evan Strong in their continued search for the Aboriginal-Egyptian connection, via the Pleiades.


Denis
 

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tessa corkill

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Apr 9, 2016, 3:34:59 AM4/9/16
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Who would have thought that eventually a string of emails about a Randwick site would lead to the Strongs??

Tessa C

john...@ozemail.com.au

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Apr 9, 2016, 6:15:37 AM4/9/16
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Hello,

Thanks Dennis ~ Goodness, what an interesting poem!

And do all things eventually lead to the Strongs?

If so, perhaps simply because it is they saying that all things (all religions, all races, all civilisation .. everything .. ) comes from Australia [at Kariong near Woy Woy] with more than a little help from the visitors they infer from the Pleiades constellation.

They say, as you probably know, that the time has come that the Elders want them to make all this known.

I imagine that similar things have been said before -- but in any case the Strongs will be speaking about it all some more ("Forgotten Origin - Out of Australia Theory: Steven & Evan Strong's New Theory of Human Civilisation" again soon, later this month at Ryde-Eastwood Leagues Club in West Ryde.   Their announcement says "We also hope to discuss, if the Elders give us permission, our research on an engraving of an astronaut - alien, at a site not released before, and present our findings for the first time at this talk".

For the last engraving of a UFO they discussed, doubters called it a 'whale' instead.

 The site of Slater's great 'Australian stonehenge' is still being rather elusive.   Although the Strongs have written a lot about where they believe it to be nothing is yet pin-point specific.

As you know, Salter collaborated with, and encouraged, a local school teacher and as with many things there may be some interesting things to it all - such as the still unsolved Kariong matter of exactly what is Roz's rock?    As I gather, some of Slater's correspondence with the school teacher turned up in a back room of what used to be the school .. or something like that.   That lead to another resurgence of the probably otherwise long-forgotten matter(?).

Cheers,

 

 

John

 

 



 


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Denis Gojak

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Apr 27, 2016, 12:12:55 AM4/27/16
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Hi John


I gave a paper on Slater, founder and large percentage of the membership of the of the Archaeological and Educational Research Association of Australia, which split from the Anthropological Society of NSW, in the late 1930s at the last AAA conference.

It included discussion of the 'Australian Stonehenge'  site in northern NSW , and will post it when I have a spare 10 mins on the Secret Visitors website.  Correspondence between him and local schoolteacher 



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john...@ozemail.com.au

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Apr 27, 2016, 10:29:29 AM4/27/16
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Great ...

Thanks Denis, I was interested in just where is this reportedly turned-up correspondence now.  Is it being conserved by a local historical society or what?

I seem to recall that I'd read it was found in a back room of building which had been the old schoolhouse once?

Lots said about this site (the Australian Stonehenge) but I gather nobody has really pinned down exactly where Slater was getting so enthused about?

Latest offering I noticed is about stones that "levitate" .. I haven't yet caught up with that.

Cheers,

 

John

 


 


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Gary Vines

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Apr 28, 2016, 4:10:29 AM4/28/16
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More news on the Randwick dig.

Minister Hunt says "In this case I am unable to make a declaration under section 9 of the Act as I am not satisfied that the area specified ... is a significant Aboriginal area, as defined,"

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hunt-rejects-call-for-halt-to-light-rail-project-to-protect-aboriginal-artefacts-20160425-goe2x7.html?platform=hootsuite#ixzz476gE79Lu

Gary Vines

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Jul 19, 2016, 10:00:22 AM7/19/16
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Some more on the 22000 artefacts


Australia artefact find divides Aboriginal clans

Aboriginal activists call for halt of Sydney light rail extension after discovery of 22,000 artefacts during excavation


It seems there might be some discord among Aboriginal communities about who can speak for the cultural heritage of the area, and what significnace the site might have - for example: "Chris Ingrey, La Perouse Land Council chief executive, defended the excavation and ensuing removal of the artefacts, saying last April: "When [we hear] of Aboriginal artefacts, we immediately think of axe heads, spearheads, scrapers and flakes," but no such items were found, he says - other than very few artefacts that could be classified broadly as Bondi points - a type of simple spear tip."

john...@ozemail.com.au

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Jul 21, 2016, 12:39:33 PM7/21/16
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Thanks but nothing new here is there?

The Government apparently still hasn't had it determined what the rock type is.

And I still have not been able to get a photo of what's being called "marriage stones" from there.

This was the first place I'd heard of "marriage stones" from.

Oh well .. it all takes time it seems.

Does anyone know if/when they resumed digging .. as they seemed to call a self-imposed voluntary halt when Canberra was called upon (even though the Minister there said it was none of his business).

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

 

 

 


 


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