"Putting all the pieces back together"
Cosmos Coroneos
Denis Gojak
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:<oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:Mon, 13 Mar 2017 15:04:06 +1100Subject:{OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
Richard Wright
When I read this sort of visionary stuff, I am ashamed of my hopelessly hidebound and unimaginative mind.
You should all be ashamed, too.
Richard
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Jeannette Hope
Classic hexagonal basalt columns. Google this and you’ll find some fantastic pictures from all over the world. The nearest well-known example to Nimbin/Kyogle is Fingal Head, near Coolangatta, about 70km from Kyogle. http://www.geomaps.com.au/scripts/finglehead.php . The ones in the photo on the Strong’s website look like they’re been excavated from underground rather than been exposed on the surface for a lone while, and they do mention a quarry. So, natural formations exposed by quarrying.
Or else those ‘temple-builders’ must have been very busy, over millions of years to carve all those stones.
Look on the bright side. At least Trump and Hanson haven’t found out about this yet and attributed it to Putin!
Jeannette
From: oza...@googlegroups.com [mailto:oza...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cosmos Coroneos
Sent: Monday, 13 March 2017 3:04 PM
To: oza...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
HI all
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John Pickard
Iain Stuart
Seems like they want an impartial geologist – sounds like a job for John Byrnes
Cheers
Dr Iain Stuart
JCIS Consultants
P.O. Box 2397
Burwood North
NSW 2134
Australia
(02) 97010191
Eleanor Crosby
Going to a Yarning Circle at Southern Cross Uni on Thursday, so will bring this to the local Indigenous groups attention.
Eleanor
Cosmos Coroneos
John Pickard
Tony Lowe
Thanks for that link John. It is interesting how people interpret things and ‘see’ things that support their own preconceived ideas, what they would like to be there. It shows the importance of getting appropriate expertise, such as the ‘impartial geologist’ that you mention. They and the biased archaeologists would of course be against the original interpretation, intent on peddling their ‘fake news’. It reinforces the need for education that not only teaches the basics but, more importantly, provides critical faculty.
Thanks,
Tony
Tony Lowe
Casey & Lowe Pty Ltd
T: (02) 9568 5375
M: 0409 988 846
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
The mystery mound is not near Nimbin, nor it is near "Mulumbimby" really .. even though many refer to it as the Mulimbimby Mound/s.
Nor is it or was it ever a "Stonehenge", albeit that "Australia's Stonehenge" is another name to the site -- which even in the earliest mentions was said to be "near Brunswick Heads".
There have been further newspaper article and "Concerned Kooris" say it is "at" Brunswick Heads".
One such article has referred to it as allegedly the most important mound on the east coast.
And so on.
The general Tweed Volcano area (the Lismore Basalt reaches Brunswick Heads) is, at least by my conclusion, the home of the set of beliefs now also found expressed in the Gosford area (esp. at Kariong and along Woy Woy Road), yet probably still unheard of by MOST people, the core of which is:
* Aborigines are not from Africa but were always here and are the original/first human beings.
* They came from the stars (in connection with this the star cluster called Seven Sisters or Pleiades is very often found mentioned).
In the Tweed-Brunswick area the main person I know who writes and extensively lectures on all this is "Stella Star Woman".
It's all easily found if you ask Mr Google to help you.
Thanks for the article in Nimbin Good Times..... there have been some earlier ones in the Lismore Star.
But the Lismore Star messed it up a bit. .. think, from memory only, that they too may have said it was near Mullumbimby.
I expect all this will be EXTENSIVELY compiled into Dennis' Ph.D. thesis at Sydney U., n'est ce pas? ~ ~~!!!??
I am using a little French as I suspect I am the only John here who does that it and it might keep it clear which John is which?
Cheers, John
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:<oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:
Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:22:55 +1100Subject:RE: {OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
Hello Jeannette,
You are dead right .. "right again" in fact -- as I can never remember you ever being wrong.
You maybe teetered on the verge of going astay when you said geos have rocks in their heads for thinking big mounds in NW NSW might be product of big (extinct) birds .. but this matter remains still unsolved. The fist person to start the big birds theory, Leigh Schmidt, wrote to me again just recently .... I think he is having more ideas .. and maybe they are even more surprising .. .. but I have misplace the email and have to re-find it.
Cos wrote re the MYSTERY MOUND (this mound has been a long long long mystery .. ) that he thinks it is near Kyogle.
I just got up Google Earth to find out where Kyogle is exactly.
But Kyogle is on the OPPOSITE side of the big Tertiary volcano to where it really is (near Brunswick Heads) I think --- i.e. 62 km away.
If it is being suggested that Aborigines moved thousands of tonnes of basalt to the mound then I think this is new.
Also what's happening, anyone know, with the Randwick site .. of the "22,000" pieces of stone found and called artefacts by some/?most.
After seening them on TV and hearing some speculation that they were brought here from the Hunter Valley to work up weapons from .. the drive the whites back into the sea .. I wrote to the responsible parts of the Gov. for all this and suggested the ROCK TYPE be determined.
I noted it takes but little time to do this .. one to two weeks .. or even same-day if in a hurry.
Also the cost is slight.
And if the Gov. cannot afford that I offered to pay for it organise it myself.
But all that was months ago now, wasn't it?
Is the rock type of those yet determined.
And if so does anyone know what it is.
From the TV images it does NOT look like silcrete.
I have PDF on chert that I'm happy to send to anyone interested if you contact me on john...@ozemail.com.au
There are apparently some chert artefact/s near Roseville Bridge but so far I have NO chert photos in my compilation from anywhere between Sydney and Hawkesbury River. If anyone has chert pics from there can you please send to me and I'll stick them in.
I also have, as PDF a compilation on Mushroom men and women .. mycophiles who seriously study the fungi. I also collect photos of them.
I'd doing the same for geos .. so if you have any BIO stuff for ANY geos I'd love to have it.
I have done good coverage for the first GOVERNMENT GEOLOGIST (Wilkinson), and his immediate family but overall I have much more comprehensive compilation of mushroom men and women from A to Z than I yet have for geos.
Re the columnar basalt at Fingal headland it is said that "the Aborigines say" there used to be a cave there.
The cave of the Black Dog .. but the "invaders" destroyed it to get columns to make the first Brunswick River breakwater.
So now the Black Dog spirit wanders ever homeless.
I have been also told of a man at Brunkswick who has probed into every black alley of the Byron Bay history. I have not yet spoken with that man.
But others do say that on dark stormy nights you might sometime here there the homeless Black Dog howling in disbelief its song ... "What have they done to my home, Ma"?
But the present whereabouts of the Black Dog's mother .. a bit like the "allegedly most significant mound on the east coast) seems uncertain .. and she has never heard to reply.
Is Trump still good mates with Putin? I hope they have no falling out because both of those blighters have more nuclear bombs put together than you and I put together have had hot Sunday roasts.
But if climate change is true .. and keeps on getting hotter .. then for sure there will be more hot Sundays to come .. and probably they will get too hot to ever think of a hot roast.
We may be heading for extinction like at the big P/T event .. what do you think?
I think that ONCE AGAIN, the cockroaches will survive.
Another surprise for me is that someone wrote to my daughter (who handles trying to figure out what the family DNA means .. ) and said "Why does your father have the same mitrochrondrial DNA as Ned Kelly?
Beats me! And I never knew this before ...if true .. though I know I have an ancestor called Hart.
Long live the Irish (but if you ever meet a member of the "Victoria Police" don't call him Wombat-headed or splay-footed as Ned did. Ned lost his head .. has it ever been found again and if so where is it. It should be classified "moveable heritage" I think.
I don't mean to stray "off topic" but hope all this can fit under "Putting all the pieces back together">
Cheers, John
----- Original Message -----
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello Iain,
Recently the Daily Telegraph put a picture of young duck, or duckling over most of its front page.
I cannot recall the exact wording of the front page but it was about the troubles of MP Ray Williams (who insists he is innocent by the way) of similar, and things like the "Dural Development" .. generally which involve cutting down the gumtrees and putting up more highrise or other creative forms of multistorey or condominium living spaces.
Above the little yellow beast they wrote some supposed claims that the Premier was denying that people who bought land for development or traded it or actually developed on it were always "developers" .. oh so complicated ???
Below it the DT wrote something like:
Premier if it swims waddles, walks like a duck and quacks -- IT IS A DUCK.
Something along those lines ....
Likewise it is not rocket science to tell about basalt columns. So I would recommend YOU go .. someone would pay you .. they won't pay me.
I've offered to work out various of these (all RELATED!!) mysteries for as little as a $50 grant from the NPWS or any other part of the Gov.
And they are all related. Kariong at the end of the old section of Bambara Road is sister site for what we are presently talking about.
The NPWS has a standard handout on that which says how it was found and that they confiscated a chisel from a deranged Yugoslav there and gave it to the local museum. As I am going to be writing all of this up myself (I hope) .. but AD (where A.D. means After Denis .. because Denis (viz. below) would surely kill me if I said all I know at this stage that in any way stole any thunder before the thesis is finished) I can't/won't say too much.
I will confine remarks only to what Mr Google already spreads around anyway.
""""""""""""""""""
About | The Secret Visitors Project
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It does not need a geo from Sydney to go up and identify columnar basalt ... that is easy. Re if it is naturally occurring, there are dozens of geotech places in the region that likely have the latest maps .. just ask them. And/or pay one of them to travel there -- IF necessary.
Re the Kariong/Bambara Road site the circumstances of discovery as stated in the NPWS handout are disputed .. and no less than in signed stat. dec. that has been put on the Internet.
So who knows .. who do you believe?
But when it comes to the rocks I DO KNOW NPWS IS WRONG ON ONE POINT.
In the statement, and also in a visit there with them -- it is said that the 'shaft' and the 'burial chamber' it goes down to were made by vandals digging around.
This is like in realm of climate change studies. .. There the Orthodox call the disbelievers skeptics or climate-deniers.
And the later call themselves the 'Realists' and call the others the Alarmists or the Warmists.
At Kariong the 'amateur archaeologists' are called the Vandals by the local arm of authority, and in turn the NPWS are called the Detroyers or the Distorter I think ... and a conspiracy is thought/imagined to exist with the Government putting down information that will change or rewrite the history of the world.
This very thing is still being said despite that the world-history-changing "World's Largest Star Map" of 3,000 or 4,000 point they mapped still hasn't changed a single history book.
Nor will it, I believe, as the points on the star map are concretions. They accepted that 'suggestion', and 'tested' it and rejected it from their own findings. And that's okay .. I am not hurt that my concretionary ideas are disbelieved .. and someone prefers to think aliens made them with technology otherwise unknown on this earth. I am highly liberal and think anyone should be free to think whatever they like unless it is doing physical harm (i.e. I do not tolerate IS talk being allowed free reign in this country).
Anyone who wants to think Aborigines never came from Africa, and that they originated at Kariong from or via being from the Seven Sisters (Pleiades) is just fine by me. Like any religion or thought system, even if misguided don't persecute them in any way ... unless they were actually destroying evidence and they are not doing that I think .. other than that the NPWS has called the 'vandals'.
This comes about because NPWS thinks things are man-made which I think are perfectly natural.
I offered to study and report on all that for a pittance.
The offer was not taken up.
In the end, if I live long enough, I think I might do it for free. It would not be an exceedingly long report to show the 'shaft' and 'burial chamber' are natural I suspect.
But I will be very interested if some unbiased geologist will go an look at the great mound.
It has seemingly been in other newpapers too .. I think one said the Kooris are "concerned", and that heritage is being "Bulldozed".
But also if sites are kept "secret" ( to holy to reveal ) then this can never be pinned down and it could continue a "moving feast".
e.g. the Kyogle guess got it over the wrong side of the 'holy mountain, the great volcano which they say contains THE actual place of the Alcheringa.
I am presuming (tell me if wrong) that the holy mound (the 'most significant mound on the east coast') is constructional .. and nothing at all like a midden. .. but constructed, think the amateurs, to mimic the great mound .. the holy mountain .. the holy volcano (Did Aborigines see it erupt ever?) .. and stuck where it is stuck because this is where the Sun (enter Ra and all the egyptological stuff?) first greets the Continent ever single day ????
That's what I think that they might think .. a big might !?
But check with the local expert on all this, the lady Stella Star Woman.
She says (when talking incidentally about the 'ancient war in the centre of the earth' and when Aus and India were one) that " what most don’t realise is that the stars, if you know how to read them [across the vault of heaven] actually hold all the creation lore, or Bootheram, as the Origine moieties call it…….and this knowledge of specific stars and constellations form vast celestial calendars which ‘remind us to remember’ important global events".
Also she sees the rainbow serpent (supposedly depicted in effigy along the top of the sacred mound at Brunswick River) as feminine: "a great war that took place between the matristic old world tribes [of the Feathered Serpent Traditions] battling patriarchal new world invaders who came from an area surrounding the Caspian Sea….these new world invaders travelled down to cripple the ancient tribes of northern India, pushing them to the south towards ancient Australia……"
Note there are no canoe trips here.. all dry walking .. and she sets this before Gondwanaland breaks up.
There are many things in the Kariong/Brunswick/Mullumbimby/Nimbin teachings that geology would not accept.
There are also many different versions but over time Nimbin/Kariong has developed a core set of beliefs in common.
I believe myself that it all originated probably up north but over time the Origin of the Origines has moved to being said to be at Kariong. Maybe because for there we have a very tangible site .. but up north the key site remains hidden. For notice that once again, NimbinGoodTimes article gives no clue where it is talking about. It says it demands to be recognised as a national treasure. But that cannot be unless stated where it is.
As noted by someone, it does say it is a former quarry. There are probably less than a dozen former quarries around Brunswick. And it says that on 18 February 40 people assembled about this.
It says that not long ago Karno called for eight hawks to circle above the mound in a figure eight.
Go back to Stella and search re the 'bird people'.
All things are connected and the spirits are stirring.
Is that not the message coming from the NimbinGoodTimes.
Beyond that what can one say? It's certainly not orthodox archaeology. Who was Karno?
It is classified, I think, as peudoarchaeology by the few archaeologists who have taken any great deal of any interest in it. It has all for long been linked to ancient Egypt. This I think started up north (1930s) and has continued down south. Did a returnee from WWI do the southern engravings and Aboriginal mythology hooked onto it and dragged down northern traditions to there ... or did northern traditions do the carvings in which case no WWI returnee had anything to do with it. There are other suspects for the Kariong carvings too, but for various reasons they cannot be named.
Cheers, John
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:<oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:
Mon, 13 Mar 2017 17:18:26 +1100
Subject:RE: {OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
--
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
Have you wondered at all .......
WHY IS IT WOMEN .. who will now take over the basalt columns; or at least it is seven women who will whose who will.
Note that it is the women .. seven women .. who will now determine care of the supposed broken relic ("Australia's Stonehenge' or the sacred mound) and put all the pieces back together again.
Read the "for more" from the NimbinGoodTimes ... and you will find it says women will now take over and put the (imagined shattered) thing back to a restored state (after which a larger 'Council' will assume control of the place ... ).
Why women?
The only 'reason' I can see for this so far .. why the great mound should/could in construction aspects be a woman's-significance site is that it supposedly once had the rainbow serpent winding along its top (but no more .. remember it was supposed to have been bulldozed originally by a farmer afraid the Commonwealth would take some of his land to turn this into a 'national monument' (as Slater dreamed).
And Stella Star Woman (Stella Wheildon) of the Tweed Volcano writes that the Feathered Serpent/Rainbow serpent business is women's business, matristic she calls it.
She has written:
"On the east coast of Australia’s most easterly point are two ancient volcanoes…..The Tweed Volcano and the Focal Peak Volcano…… Green jewels in the crown of the UNESCO World Heritage listed Australian East Coast Gondwana Rainforest Reserves .....The Tweed and Focal Peak volcanoes are the ancestral homeland estates of two very ancient Origine tribes, who have been on this land ever since the ‘Alcheringa’ – which in their dialect translates as “the beginning”……And unlike many other Origine tribes lore’s of creation, which usually involve migration and arrival to the vast southern island, this particular lineage have a very different ancestry….with their tradition’s lore’s and custom’s descending from the Carpetsnake Clan lineages …arguable one of the most ancient lineages on earth… ..."
Did someone say snake?
A woman-snake association goes back to Genesis 3 and the expulsion from Eden - when Yahweh punished the serpent by removing its four limbs.
Heck .. geology also says the snake once had four legs.
But the people of Genesis 3 ought to, logically, have had nil to do with Australian Aborigines ?
True .. except that the Kariong teachings say that ALL people (including the people of Genesis 3) were originally Australian Aborigines.
Wikipedia says in some cultures, the Rainbow Serpent is male; in others, female; in yet others, the gender is ambiguous or the Rainbow Serpent is hermaphroditic.
I'm going off for a nap now as too much of this stuff can give you headaches.
Cheers, John
~~~~
More...
From the Council of close to forty, the women will choose seven people who will form an inner group exclusively concerned with the immediate future and welfare of the rocks and will make final decisions until those rocks are moved to their rightful resting place. When that happens, and it will, the tasks of the seven chosen are complete and the larger Council will take over in deciding how, who and future directions. The first step is simply a matter of authentication and recuperation of these neglected and damaged stone sentinels, everything else is further down the line.
Checklist
The following tasks have been ticked off; the solicitors of the developer were informed of our concerns; I spoke with the owner/developer voicing these issues; contacted both National Parks and Wildlife Services and Heritage and Environment; personally spoke to two Aboriginal representatives of the Office for Heritage and Environment, liaised with the local member of the State Parliament and alerted the local media to the unearthing of these rocks.
We went through every available channel and so far, outside the Nimbin Good Times, there has been no result or interest shown. That there has been little interest is neither disappointing nor unexpected, but merely more of the same. It matters little as the Council will take control and needs no guidance or encouragement in such matters.
Our task is simple, to put all the pieces back together. The site was so incredibly sacred for so long, then everything stopped. That time in suspension is now over. Not long ago Karno called for eight hawks to circle above the mound in figure eight, and they did so at his bidding. The spirits were stirring at that sacred portal and are ready to take the next step, all we have to do is prepare the way and do their bidding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:<oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:
Mon, 13 Mar 2017 15:04:06 +1100Subject:
{OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
Michael Lever
We need wizards - archaeological wizards, who can stride into a meeting at Nimbin in flowing gowns and staff in hand, and proclaim in the name of "insert deity here", that these are not sacred rocks, that any who say that they are sacred shall be condemned to eternal reincarnation as an investment banker with a trophy spouse, and forced to shave and wash daily.
Personally I think the candidates are obvious, already bearded and grey and in one case long-haired.
Jakub Czastka
The information contained in this e-mail message and any attached files may be confidential and may contain copyright material of Tocomwall Pty Ltd or third parties. Any unauthorised use, disclosure or copying of this e-mail and/or its attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of the message and attachments. Before opening or using attachments, please check them for viruses or defects. Our liability is limited to resupplying the e-mail and attached files. Content and views expressed in this e-mail may be those of the sender, and are not necessarily endorsed by Tocomwall Pty Ltd.
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
What a wonderful idea for some archaeologist to actually go and look at the mound !!
Congratulations on that thought and I'd certainly second that.
This article in the Nimbin newspaper NimbinGoodTimes says that:
* This is the most important archaeological site in Australia, if not the world.
* This is where all language, culture and esoteric wisdom began [ Opps ... is there immediate conflict with Kariong there? ]
* This place demands to be recognised as national treasure.
[NB: these are NOT all new claims .. this business of the mound and that it is being destroyed, or even that it has been destroyed, has been going on for many many years now ....... ].
There have been at least three photos of it floating around on the internet .. and sure does look like some sort of mound to me.
I'm at St. Ives so no question that I can ever see it I think ... other than see some more pics of it if taken.
But might there be some archaeologists living up there already who could pop in and take a look at it?
Cheers,
John
~~
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:
"oza...@googlegroups.com" <oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:41:55 +0000
Subject:Re: {OzArch} "Putting all the pieces back together"
Or maybe we can simply put everything to bed by simply sending out some qualified archaeologists to make an unbiased assessment…Maybe that’s a bit too old fashioned these days ;)However, quite happy to dress up like Gandalf as long as I get to say ‘None shall pass!'Regards,
Jakub Czastka (Chaz)Senior ArchaeologistTocomwall Pty LtdSuite 12, 103 George StreetPARRAMATTA NSW 2150m: 0418 738 521p: 02 8843 1326f: 02 9524 4146
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GrahamK
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
Yes, but even a biased assessment would be of interest and better than zero archaeological assessment ........ especially if it has some more PHOTOS of the mound.
One previous photo which is in an earlier newspaper report seems to show a big lesion in the front of the mound.
And is headed "Heritage Bulldozed".
If a bulldozer has really been eating into the mound .. taking away some of its substance for use somewhere else as fill .. or whatever .. if you (or the "visiting archaeologist") were to look in the bulldozer cut for any layering within the mound this might yield some important clues.
Just guessing .. and I don't want to look like it's telling anyone how to suck eggs ... but if layering bends down towards the mound surface it is constructional/aggregational ..... but if not then it could be an erosion form.
While I am on the subject mounds .. I still have not found the latest on (supposed) BIG BIRD mounds in NW NSW but definitely did get something more incoming from geo Leigh Schmidt who is the man who started the whole big bird theory north of Cobar.
Cheers, John
--
Cosmos Coroneos
Node comptroller
Cognitive Archaeology Community
"Proof is for the ignorant"
Jakub Czastka
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Cosmos Coroneos
Date: Monday, 13 March 2017 at 3:04 PM
To: <oza...@googlegroups.com>
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello Cos,
The local land council have recently gotten themselves totally confused about this (which is really about the Slater mound - "Australia's Stonehenge" or "Burial Ground of the Kings"), due I think to the mixup/error with: "An Indigenous ceremonial stone site close to Uncle Tom’s at the Mullumbimby turnoff has been confirmed by the NSW Office of Heritage and Environment (OEH)".
The story is somewhat complex/complicated (because of various nonsense and errors that have happened).
But the "Indigenous ceremonial stone site" is doubtless the Slater mound.
And it is nowhere near Uncle Tom's (which is a well-know pie shop). It is some kilometres north of there, towards Brunswick Heads.
Cheers, John
----- Original Message -----From:oza...@googlegroups.comTo:
<oza...@googlegroups.com>Cc:Sent:Thu, 06 Apr 2017 16:23:11 +1000Subject:{OzArch} Re: "Putting all the pieces back together"
--
John Pickard
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-30/indigneous-artefacts-near-light-rail-construction/7283594) reported that local Traditional Owners and some archaeologists were claiming that the rocks were Aboriginal artefacts, indicating trade with the Hunter Valley. Others (not in press reports) have suggested that the rocks were simply left-over gravel from the original tram lines that ran along Anzac Parade.
Obviously identifying the lithology of the material, and its source, are key to interpreting its significance. Over 12 months have passed since the
initial discovery, which is more than enough time to identify the rocks. I would appreciate an update on the current state of knowledge about the
rocks, specifically:
1. Has the lithology of the rocks yet been identified?
2. Has the source been identified?
3. When will this information be released to the public?
Dear Dr Pickard,
I am writing in response to your email sent on 19 May 2017 and I apologise for the delay as I sourced the information to respond to your email.
There has understandably been considerable interest from the community in the Aboriginal heritage discovery at the light rail Randwick Stabling Yard.
As you know, we have worked with the Registered Aboriginal Parties for the light rail project both before, during and after the discovery. More than 32,000 stone items were recovered.
A Plan of Management was developed, in conjunction with the Registered Aboriginal Parties, to identify the composition and origin of the artefacts and the best way to recognise and commemorate this important find.
As part of a Plan of Management for the artefacts, we are using chemical analysis to determine their composition and origin.
Development of the Plan of Management is continuing and we will work closely with the Registered Aboriginal Parties to finalise this plan.
Following completion of the Plan of Management and agreement with the Registered Aboriginal Parties on the best way to recognise and commemorate these artefacts, information will be available for the wider community.
We will continue to work with the Aboriginal groups and the Office of Environment and Heritage to ensure the best outcome for this find and for any others as construction continues along the 12-kilometre light rail route.
Kind Regards,
David Awrham
ALTRAC Light Rail Community Team
ACCIONA Infrastructure Australia Pty Ltd
1800 684 490
(And of course, it had the usual bullshit disclaimer at the bottom of the email about it being “confidential” and asking “Please do not copy or disclose its contents.” Obviously I am ignoring this crap. Confidential??? Sue me!)
******************************
Being a persistent sort of bloke, I emailed Mr Awrham on 8 June as follows:
Many thanks, John
**********
Dear Dr Pickard,
Thanks for your reply. I’m sorry, there is nothing more we can add at this stage.
When there is more information available, we will gladly share it with the community.
Kind Regards,
David Awrham
ALTRAC Light Rail Community Team
ACCIONA Infrastructure Australia Pty Ltd
1800 684 490
(With the same bullshit disclaimer etc.)
*********************
But, being really persistent (translation: a PITA), I decided that a GIPA request (i.e. FoI) was the way to go, and so I duly filled out the form and sent it off. I received a formal response on 24 July. The PDF is attached for all to read. In case you can’t be bothered reading it, it basically says “piss off”.
The disclaimer on the covering email from Transport for NSW is a doozie:
“This email
(including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
information and is intended only to be read or used by the addressee(s). If you
have received this email in error, please notify the sender by return email,
delete this email and destroy any copy. Any use, distribution, disclosure or
copying of this email by a person who is not the intended recipient is not
authorised.”
Confidential??? It’s the formal
response to a GIPA request! How can it be confidential??? I wonder how long I
have to wait before Transport for NSW sends round a bunch of goons to confiscate
my computer, etc. I’d love nothing more than for these wankers to start legal
action against me for “unauthorised” copying etc. These people live in a
different universe.
*************************************
So, as of today, that’s where it stands.
I must make it perfectly clear that I am NOT, REPEAT NOT, targeting any consultants about this, nor am I complaining about what the consultants have / have not done. They have contractual obligations, and cannot say anything. END OF STORY. All of us who have consulted understand this perfectly well. My fight is NOT with any consultants, it’s with the government, because they are the client, and they are the ones who refuse to release the information.
The reason given for the rejection: that releasing the information will “prejudice the conduct, ... of any research by revealing its purpose, conduct or results” is unbelievable. And as for para 4.4.2 “I am advised that release of the information before it is finalised would jeopardise the validation process and prejudice the integrity of the research by revealing its results before they have been appropriately validated”, what planet do these people live on?? I routinely send people drafts of my research, and other unpublished data and information. I have NEVER found that this compromised the integrity of the results.
Claiming that we have to wait until someone gets around to getting a refereed paper published is pure crap. Anyone who has ever intended to write a refereed paper knows perfectly well that it can (a) take a long time, (b) there is no certainty of publication, and (c ) filing cabinets are full of unfinished manuscripts.
Paragraph 4.4.3 in the response is really interesting: “Transport for NSW also intends to prepare displays and use the research findings for educational purposes as it is a SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF ABORIGINAL HISTORY” (added upper case). That obviously indicates that someone, somewhere, has already decided that the gravel is aboriginal. Can we please see the evidence, or do we have to rely on hysterical claims from blow-ins? And what happens if the stuff proves to be non-aboriginal? Woops.
I intend appealing against this bullshit decision (first job on Monday 31 July). Watch this space for further updates.
Cheers, John
John
Pickard
john.p...@bigpond.com
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Disclaimer:
This email is NOT confidential in any way, shape or form. You can send this
email AND its attachment to anyone you like (including Transport for NSW). The
more the merrier.
john...@ozemail.com.au
Hello,
I would have to check to be dead sure, but I am "pretty' sure I have had the very same words you copy below as coming from the "Light Rail Community Team" .. saying even "and I apologise for the delay as I sourced the information to respond to your email" !!?
If so, could it be that a device known in the trade as a "form letter" has been brought into play here?
I also was thinking that it is now well over a year ago that more than 22,000 (?estimated) pieces of light coloured stone taken to be Aboriginal artefacts were found at Randwick Stabling Yard on the light rail route, and shown widely on Sydney TV.
I must have noted them being re-shown in the news for days following.
Big news for a week then all forgotten about --??--- trumped maybe by things like the rise of the Donald (and also that rather off-putting nuclear-armed madman in North Korea); and of course the never ending sea-saw of climate change true or false, not to mention Tony Abbott maybe clawing his way back? There's sure a lot out there to take our attention off 20, 22, or 24 thousand little pieces of stone found at Randwick.
But I merely tell them that these stones look to be geologically interesting and asked has their rock-type yet been determined?.
Can anyone suggest why a "YES" or "NO"; a 'running report' if you like, to that extent of information, would be so terribly difficult for them?
You never seem to get a plain old fashioned yes or no; you may get a treatise on communication protocols and worlds-best practice in this or that; and assurance of their commitment to following such; or maybe even a bit of the relevant Act thrown in if you are especially lucky?
Can I suggest maybe not calling it 'Randwick gravel' in future? For I am thinking that such terminology could upset some as seeming disrespectful !?? You know .. plain old 'gravel' sounds very commonplace to lots of people.
Thanks very much for "You can send this email AND its attachment to anyone you like (including Transport for NSW). The more the merrier", as I have grown VERY concerned about the status of gettability of government information in NSW of late; and do consider that matters have probably been deteriorating. I am going, therefore, to write to the Commissioner for Information on a range of such related matters. She I think is the grand overseer of all things GIPA (!?). Things for example have gotten particularly bad with NPWS in last 6 months or so.
Gary once wrote to this forum with how he was having trouble with RandyKitty for shooting his Wikpedia contributions on some archaeological matters down in flames as (I think) too trivial or inconsequential(?). Not sufficiently important for Wikipedia? Well .. I am trying to understand just why RK did it .. and I hope I do find her not too much 'claws out', and we can have an amicable discourse.
Cheers, John
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