How to properly add a speed camera (POI)?

[Tomas Hektor]

Hi

I've recently discovered the POI-feature and how to show speed_cameras on the map when I'm navigating. I've noticed that there are a few cameras missing where I usually travel. How do I properly add these POIs so that they appear when I filter to show Transport.speed_cameras.

Look at the attached screenshot from my phone. What fields do I need in order to make my POI appear as a speed_camera? Is it enough if I press "Other" and change that to "transport" and then enter "speed_camera" in the field next to it? Or do I need to fill in a name etc? How about "Advanced mode", anything I need to do there?

Btw, I haven't yet downloaded the audio package. If osmand is set to warn at speed cameras in navigation mode, do I get audio warnings? Or are there only visual warnings for that?

[Stephan75]

Hello Tomas,

a good point to find information about tagging of speed cameras in the general OSM data is the OSM wiki.

See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:enforcement

At he bottom of that page, there are some sites that can display each place where such a speed enforcement is already mapped. Try to find out whether the speed cameras you are missing are alrteady in the OSM data.

Many years ago, speed cameras were mapped as single points with a simple tagging. But with the (new) feature of relations in the OSM data, we have an extended tagging schema.

You will notice that Osmand app is only displaying speed cameras that are still tagges as single node on the way you are travelling. Because it is not so complicated to process while routing.

As far as I know, Osmand is yet NOT able to process speed cameras that are tagged as relations! or am I wrong??

So we need a feature request about that ...

Stephan

[Tomas Hektor]

Hello Stephan

Thanks for the information. I have some studying to do...

But this isn't possible to do with the OsmAnd app? Only in potlatch? If this can't be done in the app, what would be the easiest way to store a speed camera while I'm following the navigation commands or simply look at my position on the map? Since I travel by car, it only takes a few seconds before I'm no longer at the camera, I need a fast way to store the location.

regards,
Tomas

[David White]

Nice idea for a plugin...
In the mean time and for road safety's sake I'd just add an osm bug with enough information to edit it after in Potlatch or Josm.
It's probably the quickest method at the moment
Hath

David.

[Victor Shcherb]

There is a special way to do it during "driving" :  Audio video notes. You can take the audio note in 2 easy clicks, аfter that they could be copied to JOSM with the recorded track and josm, by the timestamp created for each file, (what I read) could associate audio records and locations on the track.

I guess this is safest method

Victor

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Osmand" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to osmand+un...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Tomas Hektor]

I read your reply once more. And a few questions came to mind:

Why are there two ways of tagging a speed camera (as a relation, and as a single node: type:speed_camera)?

If the latter version (single node) is the only one that osmand can give a warning about, why would I want to tag them as relations?

Any general idea (not osmand specific) why relations are better than the single node (speed_camera)?

I realize that these questions are more osm related than osmand. But I figure you guys here can answer them as well. =) I'm fairly new to osm and want to contribute where I can. Just want to make sure that I do it right.

Den måndagen den 11:e mars 2013 kl. 12:46:43 UTC+1 skrev Stephan75:

[Tomas Hektor]

Tried this one out yesterday. Turns out that the location of the phone when the recording is started is saved and displayed on the map in osmand. So a simple recording started at the speed camera saying only something like "speed camera traveling to XXX maxspeed YYkm/h" and then showing the position of the recording should do the trick for me.

Thanks for the help!

[Stephan75]

Hello Tomas,

your question why there are obviously two kinds of mapping speed cameras is not so bad ! :-)

I think the main reason why the relation thing was introduced was that with a rerlation you can show in what DIRECTION the speed camera is working, because of the from and to elements.

If you only have a single node on a way tagged as speed camera, any navigation app would alert you each time, even if that speed camera is only working for the opposite lane.

So it would be nice to open a feature request issue on code.google.com to support speed cameras that are tagged as relations.

Stephan   

[Tomas Hektor]

I see that a similar issue already has been accepted. Issue 1334. This not cover speed cameras as relations but another issue, 1539, requested speed cameras as relations to be handled. Issue 1539 was declined as a duplicate to 1334. I don't see how they were duplicates but I hope that 1539 will be solved when 1334 is solved.

[Victor Shcherb]

They are not duplicates at all I think I misunderstood what enforcement means .  I'm not sure that enforcement is really a speed camera, for me enforcement looks like a speed limitation that you should not exceed (you will be caught). Enforcement all the way long (30 km or longer) but it doesn't make sense to show it all the way .

I think speed cameras that are not on the road is a must have feature, for enforcement I would argue something could be done. 

BTW : major highway usually consists of 2 oneway roads so there is no issue of speed cam directions.

Victor

--

[Tomas Hektor]

According to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:enforcement enforcements are "devices that measure and document traffic violations". So these devices have a certain position on the map, they do not move around or extend for several km. So to have an enforcement on the entire, say 30 km, road doesn't make sense.

Where I live most speed cameras are present at the smaller roads that are not mapped as two one-directional roads but rather one bi-directional road, so the relation:enforcement would really do some good there.

Does this mean that issue 1539 should be reopened or should I write a new feature request? Or should this be incorporated in 1334? I'm very new to the behind-the-scenes of the open-source community so please forgive me if I'm asking stupid questions.

/Tomas

[Victor Shcherb]

Hi,

In that case I don't understand why do we need http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dspeed_camera.

What I see ( Additional information or more complex setups can be stored in enforcement relation). 

If this tags duplicate each other than it is also fine because highway=speed_camera will be used.

As I understand only direction information is missing from enforcement relation but this bug is deprioritized for now due to complexity.

Victor

[Stephan75]

In my personal opinion, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dspeed_camera is deprecated !!

This tagging was used when there was no relation model in the OSM data in general, I think.

So we would even need a bot or some quality assurance web service  that shows single nodes with highway=speed_camera ... they should be converted to relations!

Stephan

[Victor Shcherb]

In my personal opinion was very useful tag highway=speed_camera.

Just 2 arguments :

1) It still have pretty big coverage (200 000 values)

2) It is very easy for processing, mapping and generating.

I think OsmAnd will support that tag anyway, but I'm not sure if OSM community is going to move to enforcement relation. It would be awesome to clarify that point and create bug for enforcement relation or reopen. Please attachlink to any existing "enforcement" relation to the bug.

Thanks,

Victor

[Tomas Hektor]

Can't find a definate answer, but it seems like the enforcement relation is the proper way to add a speed camera. The tag highway=speed_camera don't include all info that is desireable. For this reason, I filed issue 1784 with an improvement suggestion.

[Pieter van Nederkassel]

The problem all starts with OSM still allowing to log a speed_camera with different tags, in my opinion.

We are taking here about suboptimal behavior of the higway/speed_camera tag, but then OSM had to remove it.

I live in Belgium and it stinks here of speed_cameras. I can tell you from experience that if there is a camera in one direction there is a huge chance there is one in the opposite direction, but OK, so making it only a problem in 25% of the cases. 

Now we are faced with a bad situation:

for example check the differences between these two:

http://frink.bplaced.de/blitzer/

http://freeroute.fr/?page_id=36

for the street Brusselsesteenweg, Asse.

The way OSMAND does it is still a bit different, I noticed.

So OSM has to make up its mind and the programmers of OSMAND will follow.

Still we have to convert then the historic tags to the new tag or lose the information.

[Jo Simoens]

There are not 2 ways of adding speed cameras.

To add the device, create a node tagged with highway=speed_camera. This node is not part of the way, it is next to the way. On Bing it is very often possible to see a little white spot for the exact location.

Now create an enforcement relation. Add the node and give it a role: device.

Now either create a node on the highway or use an existing one, where you want drivers to get a warning, add this node to the relation and give it a from role.

You can also add a node with a to role. This is somewhere in the middle of the range where the camera can shoot pictures. If it is pointed at traffic lights, I usually use the node with the traffic lights.

enforcement relations for speed cameras get the following tags:

type=enforcement
enforcement=maxspeed
maxspeed=50

Some cameras have a double function. In that case they are members of a second relation with the following tags:

type=enforcement
enforcement=traffic_signals

OsmAND should use the node with the from role to give a warning about the upcoming camera.

If you're only interested in adding the devices, you can suffice with a node tagged highway=speed_camera next to the road. It is not possible to warn about it then, since the information is still incomplete.

You can also add OSM Notes (previously OSM Bugs) and describe in what direction the camera is pointing. Then a contributor can add the camera, but it may take a while before somebody notices the note and acts upon it.

Polyglot