Clinton-Lynch Meeting was Planned

[hal lillywhite]

So the Clintons and Lynch have been claiming that it was just an accident that
they happened to meet at the Phoenix airport. Not so

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/07/01/stunning-revelation-buried-deep-in-ig-report-blows-hole-in-lynch-clinton-tarmac-meeting-narrative

"The [Horowitz] report states that the DOJ department of public affairs supervisor
traveling with Lynch told internal DOJ investigators that Clinton’s Secret Service
detail contacted Lynch’s security detail ahead of time to arrange the meeting."

So the Clintons and their minions lie. Is anyone surprised? Of course the
question still remains, What did they talk about? Almost certainly *not* their
grandchildren, you don't have security people arrange such a meeting between
people who hardly know each other to talk about grandchildren.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in
news:e4e99491-2d5c-440d...@googlegroups.com:

Neither The Blaze nor Horowitz are credible sources.

[Bill Shatzer]

Baxter wrote:
> hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in
> news:e4e99491-2d5c-440d...@googlegroups.com:

>> So the Clintons and Lynch have been claiming that it was just an
>> accident that they happened to meet at the Phoenix airport. Not so

>> https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/07/01/stunning-revelation-buried-dee
>> p-in-ig-report-blows-hole-in-lynch-clinton-tarmac-meeting-narrative

>> "The [Horowitz] report states that the DOJ department of public
>> affairs supervisor traveling with Lynch told internal DOJ

>> investigators that Clinton’s Secret Service detail contacted
>> Lynch’s security detail ahead of time to arrange the meeting."

>> So the Clintons and their minions lie. Is anyone surprised? Of course
>> the question still remains, What did they talk about? Almost certainly
>> *not* their grandchildren, you don't have security people arrange such
>> a meeting between people who hardly know each other to talk about
>> grandchildren.

> Neither The Blaze nor Horowitz are credible sources.

The conspiracy theorists at the Blaze have obviously been working
overtime. For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?

[hal lillywhite]

Yeah, in you guys' minds, anything you don't like is from a source not credible.

>For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
> nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?

First, because it is easy to intercept and record phone calls. Second, if you
want to persuade someone to do something, a face to face meeting is usually
more effective than a phone call. That is particularly true of someone with Bill
Clinton's charisma.

[Fred]

On Sun, 1 Jul 2018 17:57:49 -0700 (PDT), hal lillywhite
<hlil...@juno.com> wrote:

>So the Clintons and Lynch have been claiming that it was just an accident that
>they happened to meet at the Phoenix airport. Not so

Shrug. They are no longer in office. Find some new boogeyman.

[Baxter]

Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in news:phdu68$gu6$1@dont-
email.me:

> Baxter wrote:
>
>> Neither The Blaze nor Horowitz are credible sources.
>
> The conspiracy theorists at the Blaze have obviously been working
> overtime. For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
> nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?

I wonder how it all ties in with the "Civil War" Alex Jones is forecasting?

[Bill Shatzer]

hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
>> Baxter wrote:

-snips-

>> The conspiracy theorists at the Blaze have obviously been working
>> overtime.
>
> Yeah, in you guys' minds, anything you don't like is from a source not credible.
>
>> For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
>> nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?
>
> First, because it is easy to intercept and record phone calls.

So instead we each fly some two thousand miles to meet on an airport
tarmac in broad daylight and in plain view of everyone within 1,000
meters and recorded for posterity by a plethora of news cameras?

Yeah, right!

peace and justice

[hal lillywhite]

They probably both happened to be in the area, then Clinton delayed his departure,
apparently just to meet with her. And if you think two people who didn't really
know each other would do that to talk about their grandchildren, weren't you
saying something about a bridge for sale?

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:33789c22-4bae-405c...@googlegroups.com:

Bill Clinton is a very social guy - way more than any normal person --
that's how he became President.

[Bill Shatzer]

hal lillywhite wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 1:41:58 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
>> hal lillywhite wrote:
>>> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
>>>> Baxter wrote:
>>
>> -snips-
>>
>>>> The conspiracy theorists at the Blaze have obviously been working
>>>> overtime.
>>>
>>> Yeah, in you guys' minds, anything you don't like is from a source not credible.
>>>
>>>> For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
>>>> nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?
>>>
>>> First, because it is easy to intercept and record phone calls.
>>
>> So instead we each fly some two thousand miles to meet on an airport
>> tarmac in broad daylight and in plain view of everyone within 1,000
>> meters and recorded for posterity by a plethora of news cameras?
>>
>> Yeah, right!

> They probably both happened to be in the area, then Clinton delayed his departure,
> apparently just to meet with her.

"Probably" and "apparently" are code words for "what follows is mere
speculation without any supporting evidence."

> And if you think two people who didn't really
> know each other would do that to talk about their grandchildren, weren't you
> saying something about a bridge for sale?

Well, grand children are something all grandparents have in common. The
sort of thing grand parents who "don't really know each other" might
talk about.

But still, if there was something nefarious going on, a meeting on zn
airport tarmac in broad daylight and view of God knows how many
witnesses is an exceedingly stupid way to do it. Bill Clinton is many
things but stupid is not one of them.

peace & justice

[hal lillywhite]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 7:23:20 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
> hal lillywhite wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 1:41:58 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
> >> hal lillywhite wrote:
> >>> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:25:00 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
> >>>> Baxter wrote:
> >>
> >> -snips-
> >>
> >>>> The conspiracy theorists at the Blaze have obviously been working
> >>>> overtime.
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, in you guys' minds, anything you don't like is from a source not credible.
> >>>
> >>>> For starters, if Clinton and Lynch wanted to discuss something
> >>>> nefarious,why not just pick up a telephone?
> >>>
> >>> First, because it is easy to intercept and record phone calls.
> >>
> >> So instead we each fly some two thousand miles to meet on an airport
> >> tarmac in broad daylight and in plain view of everyone within 1,000
> >> meters and recorded for posterity by a plethora of news cameras?
> >>
> >> Yeah, right!
>
> > They probably both happened to be in the area, then Clinton delayed his departure,
> > apparently just to meet with her.
>
> "Probably" and "apparently" are code words for "what follows is mere
> speculation without any supporting evidence."

Would you prefer to believe that he deliberately had his expensive jet fly to
Phoenix just to meet her?

Fact: Clinton was at the airport when Lynch arrived. There are two possible
reasons why. Either it was happenstance, or he did it deliberately.

Fact: He did delay departure of his plane to meet an AG he really did not know.

> > And if you think two people who didn't really
> > know each other would do that to talk about their grandchildren, weren't you
> > saying something about a bridge for sale?
>
> Well, grand children are something all grandparents have in common. The
> sort of thing grand parents who "don't really know each other" might
> talk about.

Do grandparents who do not know each other really go that far out of their way
to meet to talk about grandchildren? We're not talking about a casual meeting
here, we're talking deliberate action, probably costly action considering the
cost of having a plane sit idle when the crew expected to be in the air.

> But still, if there was something nefarious going on, a meeting on zn
> airport tarmac in broad daylight and view of God knows how many
> witnesses is an exceedingly stupid way to do it. Bill Clinton is many
> things but stupid is not one of them.

Even smart people can do stupid things, history abounds in examples.

Your implication of a casual meeting just to talk about grandchildren does not
pass the smell test. It would take something like Clinton saying, "Hey, there is
another grandparent arriving at this airport in a little while. I don't know her
but let's hold up my plane just so I can inject myself into her life and talk
about our grandchildren. And let's ignore the fact that she has the power to
stop possible prosecution of my wife."

That would be stupid. I cannot believe that Clinton would hold up his plane and
arrange a meeting with someone he didn't know just to talk about grandchildren.
It may well be that they did mention grandchildren in the conversation, but I
cannot believe that the meeting was arranged for that purpose. Almost certainly
the main topic was something else, with grandchildren perhaps being mentioned.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:69d1f989-b866-45b6...@googlegroups.com:

Bill Clinton is a "gladhander". When Lynch arrived at the airport and he
did not have pressing reason to be elsewhere, he took the opportunity to
get aquainted on a personal level with a member of his administration.
No nefarious conspiracy theory is required to explain his actions.

[hal lillywhite]

What administration? His administration was 15 years in the past by then. And
it is a bit of a stretch to call her a member of that administration, she was
only a prosecutor in NY, not part of the power structure.

[Bill Shatzer]

Exactly. Clinton was no longer president or nor did he hold any other
office. The meeting simply didn't matter - just a public official
meeting with one of her constituents.

Something we generally approve of.

peace and justice

[hal lillywhite]

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 5:34:03 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:

> Exactly. Clinton was no longer president or nor did he hold any other
> office. The meeting simply didn't matter - just a public official
> meeting with one of her constituents.

Except the public official did not initiate the meeting, Clinton did.

[Bill Shatzer]

Isn't that the way it goes usually? The constituent seeks out the public
official, not the other way around.

Indeed, except for "town hall" formats and the like, these sorts of
meetings almost always occur at the citizen's initiative.

peace and justice

[hal lillywhite]

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 1:03:22 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
> hal lillywhite wrote:
> > On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 5:34:03 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:
>
> >> Exactly. Clinton was no longer president or nor did he hold any other
> >> office. The meeting simply didn't matter - just a public official
> >> meeting with one of her constituents.
>
> > Except the public official did not initiate the meeting, Clinton did.
>
> Isn't that the way it goes usually? The constituent seeks out the public
> official, not the other way around.

Precisely the point! Why was Clinton seeking a meeting with the woman who had
power to prosecute or not prosecute his wife? If you really think he just wanted
to talk about grandchildren with someone he didn't even know, I believe that
bridge is still for sale.

[Bill Shatzer]

Well as long as we're in the "suspicious meeting" mode, I might direct
your attention to certain meeting in May of 2017 held in the Oval Office
between Trump and Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and Russian Ambassador
to the US Kislyak. No Americans were present, the meeting was not
reflected on Trump's calendar, and the meeting would never have been
revealed to the US public at all had not the Russian news agency
released photos of the meeting taken by a Russian photographer with
Trump. Lavrov, and Kislyak yucking it up.

Bloody strange that. That a Russian photographer gets access but there
was not room for a single American phographer - or even just an American
witness.

oh, and by the way apparently Trump shared some highly classified
material with the two Russians which pissed off the Israeli (the source
of the classified material) to no end.

Kinda makes a 15 minute encounter on the tarmac in Phoenix seem like
small potatoes, eh?

peace and justice

[Baxter]

Bill Shatzer <ww...@NOcornell.edu> wrote in

news:phpbfj$umg$1...@dont-email.me:

And Trump is fixing to meet with Putin under similar circumstances - no
Americans present, no record of anything said at meeting, etc.

[hal lillywhite]

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 8:19:15 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:

> Well as long as we're in the "suspicious meeting" mode, I might direct
> your attention to certain meeting in May of 2017 held in the Oval Office
> between Trump and Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov and Russian Ambassador
> to the US Kislyak. No Americans were present,

"No Americans were present." Hold that thought.

...

> Bloody strange that. That a Russian photographer gets access but there
> was not room for a single American phographer - or even just an American
> witness.

As the NYT points out, that was pretty much an official Russian shutterbug,
and there was an official White House photog present. “Our official photographer
and their official photographer were present — that’s it,” a White House aide
said,..."
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/us/politics/trump-russia-meeting-american-reporters-blocked.html

> oh, and by the way apparently Trump shared some highly classified
> material with the two Russians which pissed off the Israeli (the source
> of the classified material) to no end.

"President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign
minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current
and former U.S. officials,"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.f9626c8886d4

Let's see, no Americans were present. Just how did those unnamed current and
former U.S. officials know that? Could their claims be the result of the
well-known animosity toward Trump that many in the DC area have?

Was the event handled in a clumsy way? Yes (and Trump seems to have a real talent
for clumsy moves). However, I'm not convinced that there was anything
nefarious about it.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:b91e0d71-6642-493c...@googlegroups.com:

>
> Let's see, no Americans were present. Just how did those unnamed
> current and former U.S. officials know that? Could their claims be the
> result of the well-known animosity toward Trump that many in the DC
> area have?
>

The real Trump Derangement Syndrome afflicts those Trump supporters who see
anti-Trump conspiracies everywhere and can't imagine that there can be any
truth to the reports.

[hal lillywhite]

And of course you fail to even address the question. "no Americans were present. Just how did those unnamed current and former U.S. officials know
that?"

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:af7fb081-8cdd-4b74...@googlegroups.com:

Photos released by the Russian photographer from Tass (propanda bureau) who
was present.

[Bill Shatzer]

Maybe the Russians told them? Or perhaps Trump himself?

peace and justice

[hal lillywhite]

On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 7:17:57 PM UTC-7, Baxter wrote:
> hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in
> news:af7fb081-8cdd-4b74...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 10:26:40 AM UTC-7, Baxter wrote:
> >> hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in
> >> news:b91e0d71-6642-493c...@googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Let's see, no Americans were present. Just how did those unnamed
> >> > current and former U.S. officials know that? Could their claims be
> >> > the result of the well-known animosity toward Trump that many in
> >> > the DC area have?
> >> >
> >> The real Trump Derangement Syndrome afflicts those Trump supporters
> >> who see anti-Trump conspiracies everywhere and can't imagine that
> >> there can be any truth to the reports.
> >
> > And of course you fail to even address the question. "no Americans
> > were present. Just how did those unnamed current and former U.S.
> > officials know that?"
>
> Photos released by the Russian photographer from Tass (propanda bureau) who
> was present.

Ha ha. You are joking, right?

[hal lillywhite]

On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 9:01:13 PM UTC-7, Bill Shatzer wrote:

> > And of course you fail to even address the question. "no Americans were present. Just how did those unnamed current and former U.S. officials know
> > that?"
>
>
> Maybe the Russians told them? Or perhaps Trump himself?

Wasn't it you who wrote, on this very thread"

"Probably" and "apparently" are code words for "what follows is mere
speculation without any supporting evidence."

If probably and apparently are code words for mere speculation, what is "maybe"?

And if the meeting was so hush-hush, why would any of them tell those "unnamed"
sources? Especially in a place like DC where lying and backstabbing are common.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:c0f77cef-9252-4805...@googlegroups.com:

----------------
WASHINGTON — When President Trump met with top Russian officials in the
Oval Office on Wednesday, White House officials barred reporters from
witnessing the moment. They apparently preferred to block coverage of the
awkwardly timed visit as questions swirled about whether the president
had dismissed his F.B.I. director in part to squelch the investigation
into possible ties between his campaign and Moscow.

But the Russians, who have a largely state-run media, brought their own
press contingent in the form of an official photographer. They quickly
filled the vacuum with their own pictures of the meeting with Mr. Trump,
Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and Sergey I. Kislyak,
Moscow’s ambassador to the United States.

Within minutes of the meeting, the Foreign Ministry had posted
photographs on Twitter of Mr. Trump and Mr. Lavrov smiling and shaking
hands. The Russian embassy posted images of the president grinning and
gripping hands with the ambassador. Tass, Russia’s official news agency,
released more photographs of the three men laughing together in the Oval
Office.

The White House released nothing.

https://is.gd/IyF6XN

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:fc540f97-a0a5-42f3...@googlegroups.com:

And, of course, people can see who goes into an office for a meeting and
who does not - while not present at the meeting itself.

[hal lillywhite]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 8:07:34 AM UTC-7, Baxter wrote:

> >> Photos released by the Russian photographer from Tass (propanda
> >> bureau) who was present.
> >
> > Ha ha. You are joking, right?
> >
>
> ----------------
> WASHINGTON — When President Trump met with top Russian officials in the
> Oval Office on Wednesday, White House officials barred reporters from
> witnessing the moment. They apparently preferred to block coverage of the
> awkwardly timed visit as questions swirled about whether the president
> had dismissed his F.B.I. director in part to squelch the investigation
> into possible ties between his campaign and Moscow.
>
> But the Russians, who have a largely state-run media, brought their own
> press contingent in the form of an official photographer. They quickly
> filled the vacuum with their own pictures of the meeting with Mr. Trump,
> Sergey V. Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, and Sergey I. Kislyak,
> Moscow’s ambassador to the United States.
>
> Within minutes of the meeting, the Foreign Ministry had posted
> photographs on Twitter of Mr. Trump and Mr. Lavrov smiling and shaking
> hands. The Russian embassy posted images of the president grinning and
> gripping hands with the ambassador. Tass, Russia’s official news agency,
> released more photographs of the three men laughing together in the Oval
> Office.

You really weren't joking? I didn't think it possible even for you. The question
is what is the source of the claim that Trump handed them classified information. Please tell us how you get that from pictures of people shaking
hands, etc.

[hal lillywhite]

Which says exactly zero about what went on in that meeting.

Do try to stick to the subject. We agree the meeting happened. The question is
if there is evidence that classified information was handed off. So far the only
evidence is claims by unnamed people who clearly were not in the meeting.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:ae93426d-d017-49b0...@googlegroups.com:

Oh, well I misunderstood your question then. The answer is easy: Trump
told us he shared classified information with the Russians at that
meeting.
-------------
President Donald Trump discussed classified intelligence during an Oval
Office meeting on May 10, 2017 with the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey
Lavrov and the Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, providing sufficient
details that could be used by the Russians to deduce the source of the
information and the manner in which it was collected, according to
current and former government officials.[2][3][4][5][6] The disclosure
was first reported in The Washington Post on May 15, 2017. White House
staff initially denied the report, but the following day Trump defended
the disclosure, stating that he has the "absolute right" to "share"
intelligence with Russia.[7]

https://is.gd/58xTiD

----------

Or are you calling him a liar?

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:e705113d-b22c-4dcf...@googlegroups.com:

Trump was in the meeting, and he said he disclosed classified
information.

https://is.gd/58xTiD

See also: https://is.gd/vEcYcz

[hal lillywhite]

Your links quote the same report based on unnamed sources. And the quotes from
Trump do not mention classified information. If you to to footnote 7 you find
his tweets:

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....

.to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

No mention of classified information. And encouraging them to fight terrorism
seems a laudable goal.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:c84c0e67-c661-4f85...@googlegroups.com:

So ... in the context of being accused of sharing _classified_
information with the Russians, Trump replies that he did indeed share
information with the Russians but doesn't specifically say "classified",
but does not deny that the information he shared was classifed - only
that he had the right to do so --- you conclude the information he shared
was *not* classified?

Nope, I don't buy your snake oil or brand of mis-reasoning. He shared
_classifed_ information and the Isreali's where he got that information
were right to be upset.

[Bill Shatzer]

hal lillywhite wrote:



> You really weren't joking? I didn't think it possible even for you. The question
> is what is the source of the claim that Trump handed them classified information.
> Please tell us how you get that from pictures of people shaking
> hands, etc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia/trump-revealed-intelligence-secrets-to-russians-in-oval-office-officials-idUSKCN18B2MX

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/us/politics/trump-russia-classified-information-isis.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/trump-intel-slip

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-revealed-secret-israeli-mission-northern-syria-russian-diplomats-720600

peace and justice

[hal lillywhite]

We are chasing our tail. Back to unnamed officials who were not in the meeting
as the source.

Try again when you have solid information.

[Baxter]

hal lillywhite <hlil...@juno.com> wrote in

news:99b0f877-2ea9-4921...@googlegroups.com:

Hal is afflicted with PTDS.

[Baxter]

Baxter <bax02_s...@baxcode.com> wrote in news:pi2gbg$14s2$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

------------------------
Donald Trump leads an insane white cult — and Pat Buchanan just explained
how it works

...
It is clear that Trump is the leader of a cult of personality.

Donald Trump is a proto-fascist. He buddies up with Russian President
Vladimir Putin for credibility in his role as a new il-Duce, a petit
Mussolini for 21st century American politics. Donald Trump is a classic
“strong man” political figure. To that end, he encourages violence by his
followers against political opponents and those identified as the Other
or somehow weak. Nor does Donald Trump deny that he is a “racist” or
“neo-fascist.”
...
Donald Trump is not Jim Jones. He is also not Immortan Joe from the
recent film "Mad Max: Fury Road." Trump is something more mundane. He is
a demagogue with money who can mine fear, white identity politics and
right-wing populism where spoils and rewards are given to good “real
Americans” and the Other is, by definition, punished and excluded.

Donald Trump is a hero for the angry and resentful white “silent
majority” and “Everyman” who feel that they are somehow marginalized in
“their” country and that “the blacks,” immigrants, Muslims and terrorists
are out to get them. Cults provide easy answers, direction and a feeling
of belonging for their members. The cult leader offers a way for his or
her devotees to feel better about themselves than they did before joining
the community. This is not a form of healthy personal growth or behavior.
In most cases, it is deleterious to the self. When such techniques are
used in politics, on many millions of people, it is a form of mass
psychosis.

https://is.gd/VjTNSV

------------
The political positions of Pat Buchanan (born 1938), an American
politician, columnist and news analyst, can generally be described as
paleoconservative,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Pat_Buchanan