Re: New Web Site
Paul D. Fernhout
Doram-
The new changes you made look great:
http://www.openvirgle.net/
And I can see the use of the text over the banner to match the new loge, and
maybe that banner and the new animation by Mike can find a use somewhere
else? I still think they may make great footers on that page.
And by the way, if people have other pictures for space settlements they
want to use (even more Mars oriented ones) than the two I supplied, feel
free to replace those. I'll reuse them elsewhere.
As the current owner of both openvirgle.net and oscomak.net I think it would
be a conflict of interest for me to not put up what people supply and meets
the OpenVirgle consensus (as long as, with the logo issues, I don't think it
may cause me avoidable liability down the road. :-) So. I put it up
immediately as-is.
But something that I found problematical was the link to openvirgle.info. I
don't mind linking to any resources (including ones completely beyond my
clutches :-) as long as someone has made a commitment to maintaining
them (or they are static and have historical value). Right now the page that
links to looks empty and so that implies the OpenVirgle community is
inactive: :-(
http://www.openvirgle.info/
Still, it is a bit of a chicken/egg problem. With the link maybe someone
will find and maintain that site?
I presume Kalesh is still in charge of that site, and since he is still MIA
(from the first week on?) I echo your question of "Do you know who, if
anybody, has admin access to the Google Group and OpenVirgle.info?" And add
"Or controls the OpenVirgle.info 000webhost site?" :-(
At least with the Google Group, presumably there is a procedure for
transferring it through appealing to Google if the owner is MIA / not
answering email. Fortunately, other than an occasional automatically
quarantined post, that is not causing any major problems. Anyway, my
suggestion is that if there is a (prominent) link to OpenVirgle.info (or any
other resource) at the *top* of the page, that someone here (you?) make a
commitment to keeping up that site at least minimally and making the main
page of the resource look active. Otherwise, if that site gets vandalized,
there will be no one to put it right.
By the way, I took this opportunity to move the openvirgle.net content to
another Pair server and account (the new oscomak.net one) from where it was
on a different machine with other sites I manage (the old kurtz-fernhout.com
one) on the thinking that might make it easier if someone other than me
maintains all that down the road. Hopefully this move will be transparent to
people (and it works for me now), but I have never moved things across pair
before, so please let me know if you cannot see the new site by tomorrow.
This is a bit more risky in the sense that a MediaWiki security hole would
put both sites on that machine/account at risk (I don't run cgi on the other
machine/account). But it better fits my mental model of providing OpenVirgle
with resources under the larger umbrella.
I think I can also set up limited ftp access to the openvirgle.net directory
down the road if these changes get to be a regular thing.
--Paul Fernhout
Doram Baramour wrote:
> Here it is. I put the images in a separate folder to keep them organized.
> I only have the images that I am using in there, though, so you have to
> decide if you want to leave copies of the old files in there. Also, I
> named the main file index.html, but I have no idea what it really is.
> Rename it as you wish.
>
> Let me know if you have any problems.
>
> P.S. Do you know who, if anybody, has admin access to the Google Group
> and OpenVirgle.info?
mike1937
sort of clash and it would have been hard to fit into the new
background. I was thinking of making the animation a little more
readable and have a transparent background and making it the logo on
the mediawiki. Can anyone think of something better than having some
random diamond things fly in? I think the program I'm using actually
has skins for all the planets, If we want to do something with them.
On Apr 27, 11:45 am, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-
>
> - Show quoted text -
Paul D. Fernhout
the wiki, I added a link to the semantic wiki to the list. I had to float
down Mars another 50px though.
http://www.openvirgle.net/
--Paul Fernhout
mike1937
I went ahead and made that logo transparent and web-safe, there was a
bit of corruption but I think it makes it look cooler:
http://home.comcast.net/~arid_shadow/OpenVirglewebtest.gif
Then I remembered that the wiki is actually for OSCOMAK:
http://home.comcast.net/~arid_shadow/OSCOMAK.gif
I'd kind of like to see what it (or the door picture) looks like in
the wiki logo area and if it looks bad or doesn't dither right on some
websites we can just switch over to the door for sure. Of course
anyone can feel free to use it anywhere else too, and if we decide we
like it I think I know how to make the diamonds rotate indefinitely
with a second GIF and some javascript.
Also, I can't get the .net sight to come up, my internet has been
acting up lately so it could be on my end though.
On Apr 27, 5:50 pm, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-fernhout.com>
wrote:
mike1937
using, but this ones a little better:
http://home.comcast.net/~arid_shadow/OpenVirgleframe1_7.gif
The size attribute needs to be set to 135*135, btw, if it doesn't do
that automatically.
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
mike1937
can't get directly to .net, however typing in .com redirects me there
just fine.
Paul D. Fernhout
--Paul Fernhout
Paul D. Fernhout
the people to 135*135 and put that up. It's a bit busy and subtle. But I
still like it as a statement that we don't need to choose between space
settlement and a sustainable Earth -- that we can have both at the same time
and they are somehow connected (Spaceship Earth, etc.). And that people
using OSCOMAK can "focus" their sights on low-tech or high-tech (and I think
we need both, even in space or on Mars) in the same way you need to focus on
that complex picture to understand it.
Plus it was easy. :-)
In general, I don't like animated gifs unless they are being used to
illustrate something specific to the page content (like how an engine piston
moves) because I find them too distracting.
That said, musing on what you are doing, what about a full sized animated
GIF for that moves between the space habitat then both, then just the
people? I still think it might be too distracting for the corner, but it
could be useful on the OSCOMAK main page to illustrate the concept.
http://www.oscomak.net/
Original sources if you want to play with the idea (even with different images):
"Artist: Rick Guidice Space Colonization - Bernal Sphere"
http://nix.ksc.nasa.gov/info?id=AC76-0965&orgid=9
"Participatory rural appraisal (PRA)"
http://www.developmentart.com/sustaina.htm
http://www.developmentart.com/images/085land1.gif
--Paul Fernhout
Paul D. Fernhout
And with semantic information too!
How do you feel about the semantic (halo) tools? Are they fun? Or a pain?
--Paul Fernhout
Doram
the "keys" from Kalesh, and got no response. Evidently, nobody did,
and since he is MIA, I guess we are going to have to abandon
openvirgle.info completely. (I would have had no problem taking it
over, but I did not get to respond to his "Who wants tot take over"
thread in time.) My only suggestion would be that somebody (Mike?)
copy the wiki pages from OpenVirgle.info Wiki to the new Semantic Wiki
page, if that has not been done already (all of them including ones
that you didn't write). Paul, remove the link to the OpenVirgle.info
website from OpenVirgle.net. I will remove it from the resource page,
and, I will continue to check my emails for any word from Kalesh.
On a side note, I will be talking to the creator of the font we are
using for the logo, to get a business use license/permission (should
not be a problem, the note I got with the font when I downloaded it
seemed pretty liberal). When that is finalized, I will make the font
available to others making core content (Mike, Paul, & Bryan). Should
I assume the debate is over for the logo in general? If so, I will
finalize that page.
On Apr 27, 1:45 pm, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-fernhout.com>
wrote:
mike1937
"Usage Terms
You are welcome to use any of the generated graphics in any way,
shape, or form without asking permission. If you'd like to thank us,
please tell your friends about this service and consider linking to
us."
Shoudn't be any legal issues there. Agreed, the logo page can be
finalized. Also agreed on the animation, even that they are usually
distracting (I just enjoy working with graphics whenever I have even
the slightest excuse). I'll check to see if any more wiki pages need
to be copied (I wasn't aware anyone but me wrote any).
I really like the semantic tools, the properties adding system works
much better than I was expecting.
Doram
"
DustBust Fonts
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sci Fied 2002 truetype font
Sci Fied 2002 Italic truetype font
Sci Fied 2002 Ultra truetype font
Copyright 2002 by dustBUST fonts - Andreas Nylin
This fonts is free for all non-commercial and commercial uses.
However you must
inform me if you are going to use it for anything commercial and
you must also
send me a copy of the product you have used it for (like a record
sleeve, T-shirt,
etc). You are not allowed to distribute these fonts without my
permission. Contact
me for permission. You may never ever sell my fonts, include them
on CD's or make
any changes to the files. If you use a font, please show me what
you used it for.
What do I mean by commercial usage? Commercial use is if you are
using my font for
a product for a company
I, Andreas Nylin, will never be responsible for any damage caused
by these
files. You use them at your own risk.
/Andreas Nylin
E-mail: dustbu...@yahoo.se
WWW: http://dustbust.cjb.net
"
I am going to send him an e-mail explaining what we are doing, because
I think it falls vaguely under commercial, (and all he is asking for
is notification). If nothing else, it is the polite thing to do.
On Apr 28, 4:58 pm, mike1937 <arid_sha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Fromhttp://cooltext.com/:
mike1937
http://www.oscomak.net/wiki/Reported_Errors
On Apr 28, 2:58 pm, mike1937 <arid_sha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Fromhttp://cooltext.com/:
mike1937
Paul D. Fernhout
I thought someone was going to write Kalesh? Or did he not reply?
It's OK (with at least me, and presumably everyone?) if you write him and
get the keys to everything.
For now, given Mike moved the content to the Semantic Wiki, I have removed
the link as you suggest.
I also floated Mars back up 50px (back to where it was originally, which
means I really know my orbital mechanics now. :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_mechanics
Or would that be more "celestial mechanics"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_mechanics
From:
http://www.reddwarf.nildram.co.uk/rdepisode.htm
"Whilst trying to restore Holly's mind using a new technique called
intelligence compression, the crew encounter a white hole in space.
Succeeding in their experiment, Holly now has an IQ of 12,000, the problem
is in doing so the crew have reduced her life expectancy to under three
minutes.[So they need to keep her switched off.] After battling their way
through numerous locked electric doors using Kryten as a battering ram, the
team ask Holly how to plug up the white hole. Unfortunately, it seems that
the only way to seal the white hole and fix Holly seems to be a game of
galactic pool using planets as pool balls."
One of my favorite episodes. :-)
Still, I can say this in gratitude and recognition to Kalesh: ultimately we
are going the approach (for now) that he set out on day one -- a separate
shared host (and he mentioned plans for a better paid one he was looking
into) running MediaWiki and hosting an extra intro page. There are upgrades
like the Halo Semantic part, but ultimately it is essentially his approach.(*)
Or to loosely reconstruct what happened here on "day one", taken from:
"Austin Powers [OpenVirgle :-)]: International Man [Project] of Mystery"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118655/quotes
"""
Dr. Evil [me :-)]: All right guard, begin the unnecessarily slow-moving
dipping mechanism [using Pointrel :-)].
(Guard starts dipping mechanism [Pointrel checkins commence, :-)])
Dr. Evil: Close the tank! [Pointrel-ish cgi script goes up. :-)]
Scott Evil [Kalesh by deed, Bryan by example, and Mike and Doram by feedback
and design notes :-)]: Wait, aren't you even going to watch them? They
[OpenVirgle and the Community of lurkers eager to do something] could get away!
Dr. Evil: No no no, I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness
them dying [to do something :-)], I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan.
What?
Scott Evil: I have a [Halo Semantic MediaWiki-style :-)] gun, in my room,
you give me five seconds, I'll get it, I'll come back down here, BOOM, I'll
blow their brains out [through everyone now spending all their spare time
writing Semantic Wiki pages :-)]!
Dr. Evil: Scott, you just don't get it, do ya? You don't.
"""
That said :-) I still have hopes down the road for client side tools like
SKDB or Jython/Pointrel/OpenGL as checked in for taking RDF from the web
system and doing stuff with it in a client-side or distributed fashion,
whether visualization, design, SKDB-like interfacing to machine tools, and
so on. :-)
But first, it may be better to add some plans for underground lairs into the
Semantic Wiki, maybe stuff that looks like, say, this: :-)
http://www.google.com/virgle/images/home.jpg
Unfortunately, my favorite site for lair plans is no longer up:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.villainsupply.com/
Maybe a superhero like Captain Amazing got to them? :-)
Fortunately, there is still this:
"Evil Overlord, Inc.: Planning your Future, One Step at a Time" :-(
http://www.eviloverlord.com/
And also, to actually do the work:
"Evil Genius Contracting Company"
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Evil_20Genius_20Contracting_20Company
"It's hard work being an evil genius bent on world domination. There's just
so much to do. Where do you go for electrified armchairs, or hundred metre
tall underground rocket silos? Where do you get a huge tank of ravenous
carnivorous fish that won't eat one another? Some days it's so depressing
you just want to give up. But there is hope. Set up a contracting company to
provide a "one stop shop" for the wannabe Ernst Stavro Blofelds or Penguins.
The company would have a fully trained and equipped staff of architects,
lawyers, engineers and technicians, ready to help the Evil Genius to turn
their dreams into reality. The company would develop special expertise in
the following areas... [Quite a well thought out list, actually :-)]
Nothing that the company does would actually be illegal (it would be left to
the Evil Genius and his Henchmen to actually steal or make the nuclear bomb,
deadly virus or particle beam weapon of their choice) and would make lavish
donations to charities and deserving causes, as well as paying all taxes."
Sounds like a bit too accurate a description of some project doesn't it? :-)
See also (about me: :-)
http://groups.google.com/group/virgle/msg/081919dbba30d1f7
"Remember my point: "So, when you get "fired" at Virgle -- it's out the
airlock without a helmet? :-) Or [without] access to Virgle know-how and
tools you helped build, which would be the same thing in the long run? What
kind of society would that be? :-(" So, how about "citizen" instead of
"crew"? That means a huge difference in rights and responsibilities long
term. About 20 years ago, I incorporated a "for profit" to work towards
such ends "Sunrise Universal Services" but dissolved it after a year
(without doing any substantial business under it) in large part because of
realizing this issue. So, been there, done that, got the "corporate
dissolution certificate". :-) The saddest thing is I ended the beginnings of
a "non-profit" with a few actual supportive *members* to do that. "
Alright, I can't resist, just this once, "Muhaha"! :-)
--Paul Fernhout
(*) I personally don't think the separate forum is needed right now, given
MediaWiki's discussion features and this mailing list -- but I might be
wrong about that too. :-)
Paul D. Fernhout
things. :-)
--Paul Fernhout
Doram
multiple times, at the gmail address attached to his OpenVirgle Member
Profile, at the address in his OpenVirgle.info member profile, and I
also sent a private message through the OpenVirgle.info Forum
Messaging system. All have had no response. I just sent another email
to the two actual email addresses.
He listed himself as GMT + 12 on the GoogleDocs Member listing, which
puts him in extreme eastern Russia, Marshall Islands/Fiji, or New
Zealand. Unfortunately, that makes finding him through alternate means
slightly problematic.
I will continue to keep an eye out for messages from him, but as far
as I can tell, he has dropped off the face of the earth.
Unfortunately, he does not seem to have left any other contact info
other than the gmail and openvirgle.info email addresses. If anyone
has any other means of contacting him, I would be interested in
hearing.
As for the forum thing, I still maintain that of all of the forum
setups that I have ever encountered, I like these Google Groups Forums
the absolute least, and I think that we would benefit from a better
organized forum, with a more feature rich interface, as well as the
mail2forum system allowing direct dumps into the knowledgebase/wiki
per Bryan's suggestion. Plus, the discussion part of the Semantic
MediaWiki doesn't seem to be enabled/installed right now, anyways.
Oh, and Paul, I would advise against modifying the orbit of Mars
again. The possible repercussions have not been properly studied. ;-)
On Apr 29, 2:12 pm, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-fernhout.com>
wrote:
Bryan Bishop
> As for the forum thing, I still maintain that of all of the forum
> setups that I have ever encountered, I like these Google Groups
> Forums the absolute least, and I think that we would benefit from a
What? Are you using the Google Groups website to access the mailing
list? If so, why?
- Bryan
________________________________________
http://heybryan.org/
Paul D. Fernhout
> A couple of days after that thread was started, I did write Kalesh,
> multiple times, at the gmail address attached to his OpenVirgle Member
> Profile, at the address in his OpenVirgle.info member profile, and I
> also sent a private message through the OpenVirgle.info Forum
> Messaging system. All have had no response. I just sent another email
> to the two actual email addresses.
>
> He listed himself as GMT + 12 on the GoogleDocs Member listing, which
> puts him in extreme eastern Russia, Marshall Islands/Fiji, or New
> Zealand. Unfortunately, that makes finding him through alternate means
> slightly problematic.
I'm thinking Fiji. Which is probably why he has better thing to do (we're
just loosing the last patches of snow here from shady spots :-).
> I will continue to keep an eye out for messages from him, but as far
> as I can tell, he has dropped off the face of the earth.
> Unfortunately, he does not seem to have left any other contact info
> other than the gmail and openvirgle.info email addresses. If anyone
> has any other means of contacting him, I would be interested in
> hearing.
Maybe the messages got caught in a spam filter?
Or, maybe on the internet, no one knows your a helpful Google employee
routing messages via the other side of the planet? And he/she/them decided
we were doing OK on our own? :-)
> As for the forum thing, I still maintain that of all of the forum
> setups that I have ever encountered, I like these Google Groups Forums
> the absolute least, and I think that we would benefit from a better
> organized forum, with a more feature rich interface, as well as the
> mail2forum system allowing direct dumps into the knowledgebase/wiki
> per Bryan's suggestion.
I can also set up a mailing list at Pair Networks which uses Mailman (but I
have never tried that before, and am not keen to).
> Plus, the discussion part of the Semantic
> MediaWiki doesn't seem to be enabled/installed right now, anyways.
That surprises me. I made one discussion post already. What parts don't
work? I will make it a priority to fix them. I know to enable the internal
email functions you have to verify your email address. Are those broken?
> Oh, and Paul, I would advise against modifying the orbit of Mars
> again. The possible repercussions have not been properly studied. ;-)
You Environmentalists! You're always spoiling someone's fun! :-)
--Paul Fernhout
Doram
page, at the top, there is a tab marked discussion. When I click on
that, I get a screen saying that I have clicked on a page that has not
been created yet, and gives me a blank wiki box to create a page.
... (Went to Wikipedia Main Page, clicked on discussion tab...) ...
Ah......
Well, Ok. I guess Wiki "discussion" is different than I expected. I
guess installed is definitely the wrong word, but set up might be
applicable. My only further comments on the situation, after removing
my foot from my mouth (I seem to be doing a lot of that lately), would
be that maybe there is some sort of template for the Talk:Page editor
thingy where it says "This page is for discussion of X Page." instead
of "This page doesn't exist." Also of note, The Help Page
(Help:Editing) does not exist yet, and for Wiki newbies (don't you see
Wiki Newbie glowing on my forehead), that can be more than
frustrating.
Also, The minimal help I saw on the Code Project Wiki demonstrated a
VERY small set of commands, but the Wikipedia Page Editor screen shows
a whole set of alternate language symbols as well as other functional
"tags". Is this something that can/should be implemented?
On Apr 30, 10:15 am, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-
Doram
Ok. Let me step back a minute... As far as I know, the Google Groups
"Forum" is actually a graphical interface for a modified Usenet
newsgroup. It hosts an archive of conversations, and allows for users
to post replies to "threaded" conversations. In past discussions, the
Google Group discussion area has been referred to as our "forum". This
is especially true when contrasted with the "forum" on
OpenVirgle.info, which is more like what I have considered a web
"forum" to look like, with high level divisions ("Topics") under which
exist the threaded conversations.
You, at one point, suggested a email/forum equivalent system called
mail2forum, which I checked out, and agreed that it performed all of
the things I expect from an "internet forum" (as defined in Wikipedia
- which I just looked up - which actually references PHPBB), while
also allowing the archiving and cross usage that both email, and
Google's setup, provide.This is what I would like us to have - an
"Internet Forum". I have found Google's modified Usenet interface
distastefully confusing and lacking in features.
As for the "mailing list" that you refer to, I have, unfortunately, no
idea what you are talking about. I know that there is a member list
attached to the group, which lists email addresses, but getting at
each of them requires an extended process of satisfying a captcha for
each address, and thus is rather impossible to utilize for mass
mailings of any kind. I also know that Usenet in general is considered
a type of "mailing list" (again, just looked up in wikipedia), and
thus using Google Groups to access the "mailing list" would be Google
Groups actual primary function, and not a misuse of resources in any
way. So, what I am saying is that I am confused by your question, and
humbly request that you ask again with more explanation.
mike1937
> VERY small set of commands, but the Wikipedia Page Editor screen shows
> a whole set of alternate language symbols as well as other functional
> "tags". Is this something that can/should be implemented?
a good idea to implement the extra features, I think they are a plug
in if the option isn't readily available. All of the options are
simply put in using wiki notation or html, but I for one get really
tired of typing "<sub> 2 </sub>" every two seconds, and keybindings or
clipboard or whatever are too much of a pain. And many of our users
wont know HTML.
I made the editing help page redirect to the main help page and added
in a link to the sematic wiki video, as suggested. I'll keep on the
look out for pages in other wikis or youtube videos that would be good
to link to on help
Bryan Bishop
> As for the "mailing list" that you refer to, I have, unfortunately,
> no idea what you are talking about. I know that there is a member
> list attached to the group, which lists email addresses, but getting
> at each of them requires an extended process of satisfying a captcha
> for each address, and thus is rather impossible to utilize for mass
> mailings of any kind. I also know that Usenet in general is
> considered a type of "mailing list" (again, just looked up in
> wikipedia), and thus using Google Groups to access the "mailing list"
> would be Google Groups actual primary function, and not a misuse of
> resources in any way. So, what I am saying is that I am confused by
> your question, and humbly request that you ask again with more
> explanation.
Woah. That explains a lot, Doram. :-) Google Groups is a mailing list
system. You can receive email from particular groups hosted at Google
Groups. You're right about the usenet stuff, too. That's why I
mentioned mail2forum ... I thought you were complaining about email.
But apparently you only knew about the HTTP interface that Google
Groups shows up? :-) Hehe.
Bryan Bishop
> I can also set up a mailing list at Pair Networks which uses Mailman
> (but I have never tried that before, and am not keen to).
Maybe. The only difference with Google Groups seems to be that (1) we do
not have direct control (per the ideas of OpenVirgle), and (2) we don't
get mbox files of all posted messages, which is rather disturbing. But
this can come later, I have my own archive of mail that I have been
piling up (many gigabytes).
mike1937
still using the forum interface too.
Doram
argument whatsoever about what the actual guts look like. That is the
job of the SKDB or the Wiki to encompass for usable textfodder. I am
complaining about the web interface that us non-command-line people
have to use to create the stuff (not that I have anything against text
only applications...). I have said before, and I will keep saying,
that not all of the people that will be in this project will be the
same level of geeks as we are. There does need to be a good gui front
end to help make sure all of this back end goodness is still
accessible to the masses. That is my only real complaint.
And, I do know about the non-http interfaces available, but I do not
have any experience with them. My technology education skipped from
DOS pre-internet, over the whole Compuserve/GENIE/etc. through BBS/
Usenet early internet thing, and straight into HTTP WWW stuff. All I
know about them is in terms of the history of computing. The closest I
came was having to use a VAX mainframe in College, and learning how to
use telnet to play a MUD RPG.
Bryan Bishop
> And, I do know about the non-http interfaces available, but I do not
> have any experience with them. My technology education skipped from
> DOS pre-internet, over the whole Compuserve/GENIE/etc. through BBS/
> Usenet early internet thing, and straight into HTTP WWW stuff. All I
> know about them is in terms of the history of computing. The closest
> I came was having to use a VAX mainframe in College, and learning how
> to use telnet to play a MUD RPG.
Google has amazingly awesome documentation on gmail about setting up the
pop3 and imap accounts and getting a mail client for your computer; I
find that I couldn't possibly keep up with my email if I had to use the
HTTP ajaxy interface that gmail comes with by default.
Paul D. Fernhout
too. :-) Of course, the NSA reads almost everything anyway. :-)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=NSA+reads+email
That's one reason why you're such an interesting person to write to. :-)
See also:
"Security and privacy problems w/ web apps (was Re: Pointrel/oscomak...)"
http://groups.google.com/group/openvirgle/msg/b141a88587bf795d
"Plus you can assume anything you put through Google (or eventually maybe
OSCOMAK) is monitored by the CIA and NSA etc. See:
"Google = NSA 2.0?"
http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/10/8041/
"Spooks on board at Google"
http://www.google-watch.org/jobad.html
And as is likely with with Wikipedia, either directly or by deep packet
analysis, you can expect the government would be looking over your shoulder
when you use a web version of OSCOMAK (privacy in search and use is always a
good reason to download data in big chunks :-). "
Still, remember:
"Re: IMPORTANT: Copyright issues & GFDL (legal alternatives?)"
http://groups.google.com/group/openvirgle/msg/5bd385feed4127d7
"""
Our biggest advantage is that no one takes us seriously. :-)
And our second biggest advantage is that our communications are monitored,
which provides a channel by which we can turn enemies into friends. :-)
And our third biggest advantage is we have no assets, and so are not a
profitable target and have nothing serious to fight over amongst ourselves. :-)
"""
And no, I'm not really kidding about all this. :-)
--Paul Fernhout