National Rail Enquiries missing services

[Tomasz Sadowski]

Hi

I'm validating my cif parser agains National Rail Enquiries. I have a problem with train UID W42381 from London Cannon Street to London Cannon Street. Querying Enquiries i'm able to find only part of route: London Cannon Street [CST] -> Slade Green [SGR], but one station later: London Cannon Street [CST] ->  Erith [ERH] i can't find this train. Similar situation happens for others pairs of stations.

I suspect NRE hides longer trains when better one is available. Can you tell me why i can't find some of trains? If NRE hides some trains, how to query NRE to get all trains?

[Peter Hicks]

Hello

Where are you looking to compare the trains?

Peter

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[Tomasz Sadowski]

I have my own cif feed parser, additionally i check http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk.

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Tomasz

RealTimeTrains isn't NRE - are you checking any of the NRE services, for example, www.livedepartureboards.co.uk?

For the Cannon Street 'rounders', they may well be advertised only to Slade Green using a false destination until close enough to Slade Green for those services to be advertised to closer to Cannon Street.

If you want to study the timetable that Darwin (NRE's system) uses, sign up at https://datafeeds.nationalrail.co.uk/ and you can download a daily snapshot via FTP.

Peter

[Tomasz Sadowski]

Hi Peter

I was querying http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/. Your are right this train in NRE is "divided" in 2 others: Cannon Street -> Slade Green and Slade Green -> Cannon Street which correspond to one service from atoc feed and Darwin feed:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<Pport ts="2016-07-08T03:09:04.9569038+01:00" version="12.0" xmlns="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/v12" xmlns:ns2="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/Schedules/v1">

<uR requestID="0000000000001875" requestSource="at14" updateOrigin="CIS">

<schedule rid="201607083581356" ssd="2016-07-08" toc="SE" trainId="2I31" uid="W42381">

<ns2:OR act="TB" ptd="11:40" tpl="CANONST" wtd="11:40"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="BORMRKJ" wtp="11:42"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="11:43" ptd="11:44" tpl="LNDNBDE" wta="11:43" wtd="11:44"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="NKENTEJ" wtp="11:48"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="11:49" ptd="11:49" tpl="NWCROSS" wta="11:49" wtd="11:49:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="11:51" ptd="11:51" tpl="STJOHNS" wta="11:51" wtd="11:51:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="11:54" ptd="11:54" tpl="LEWISHM" wta="11:53:30" wtd="11:54:30"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="PKBGJN" wtp="11:56"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="11:58" ptd="11:59" tpl="HTHRGRN" wta="11:58" wtd="11:59"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:01" ptd="12:01" tpl="LEEE" wta="12:00:30" wtd="12:01"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:04" ptd="12:04" tpl="MOTNGHM" wta="12:03:30" wtd="12:04"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:06" ptd="12:06" tpl="NWELTHM" wta="12:06" wtd="12:06:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:09" ptd="12:10" tpl="SIDCUP" wta="12:09" wtd="12:10"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:12" ptd="12:12" tpl="ALBNYPK" wta="12:11:30" wtd="12:12"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:14" ptd="12:14" tpl="BEXLEY" wta="12:14" wtd="12:14:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:17" ptd="12:18" tpl="CRFD" wta="12:17" wtd="12:18"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDSPB" wtp="12:20"/>

<ns2:OPIP act="OPA " tpl="CRFDSPR" wta="12:20:30" wtd="12:21"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDSPA" wtp="12:21:30"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDCKJ" wtp="12:22:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:24" ptd="12:25" tpl="SLADEGN" wta="12:23:30" wtd="12:25:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:28" ptd="12:28" tpl="ERITH" wta="12:27:30" wtd="12:28"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:30" ptd="12:30" tpl="BELVEDR" wta="12:30" wtd="12:30:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:33" ptd="12:33" tpl="ABWD" wta="12:33" wtd="12:33:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:36" ptd="12:36" tpl="PLMS" wta="12:36" wtd="12:36:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:39" ptd="12:39" tpl="WOLWCHA" wta="12:38:30" wtd="12:39:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:42" ptd="12:42" tpl="WOLWCDY" wta="12:41:30" wtd="12:42"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:45" ptd="12:45" tpl="CRLN" wta="12:44:30" wtd="12:45"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:47" ptd="12:47" tpl="WCOMBEP" wta="12:46:30" wtd="12:47"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:49" ptd="12:49" tpl="MAZEH" wta="12:48:30" wtd="12:49"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:52" ptd="12:52" tpl="GNWH" wta="12:51:30" wtd="12:52:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:54" ptd="12:54" tpl="DEPTFD" wta="12:54" wtd="12:54:30"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="NKENTEJ" wtp="12:56"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="13:02" ptd="13:02" tpl="LNDNBDE" wta="13:01:30" wtd="13:02:30"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="BORMRKJ" wtp="13:04"/>

<ns2:DT act="TF" pta="13:06" tpl="CANONST" wta="13:06"/>

</schedule>

</uR>

</Pport>

Is is possible to get information  about that "dividing" from feeds?

Another strange thing is that NRE doesn't return service for query from Cannon Street to Eright (next station after Slade Green), however it does return for query Lee -> Deptford which goes via Slade Green.

Is Darwin provide timetable for more then 1 day?

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Tomasz

On 8 Jul 2016, at 13:23, Tomasz Sadowski <tom...@ayoupa.com> wrote:

Hi Peter

I was querying http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/. Your are right this train in NRE is "divided" in 2 others: Cannon Street -> Slade Green and Slade Green -> Cannon Street which correspond to one service from atoc feed and Darwin feed:

[cut]

Is is possible to get information  about that "dividing" from feeds?

‘Divide’ has a special meaning within Darwin and also the rail industry - it means that a portion of the train will then run to a different schedule.  For example, a train could run London Victoria to Brighton and ‘divide’ at Gatwick Airport with one portion of the train then forming a Gatwick Airport - Portsmouth Harbour service.

This appears to be a ‘false destination’, and those appear on the schedule messages in the Push Port.  Here’s one message I picked up, and I’ve annotated each location with the destination that should be shown for the train:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

<Pport xmlns="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/v12" xmlns:ns2="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/Schedules/v1" ts="2016-07-05T03:20:20.1772312+01:00" version="12.0">

<uR requestID="0000000000001546" requestSource="at21" updateOrigin="CIS">

<schedule rid="201607053482289" ssd="2016-07-05" toc="SE" trainId="2I31" uid="W42381">

<ns2:OR act="TB" fd="CRFD" ptd="11:40" tpl="CANONST" wtd="11:40”/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:PP tpl="BORMRKJ" wtp="11:42"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="CRFD" pta="11:43" ptd="11:44" tpl="LNDNBDE" wta="11:43" wtd="11:44"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:PP tpl="NKENTEJ" wtp="11:48"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="11:49" ptd="11:49" tpl="NWCROSS" wta="11:49" wtd="11:49:30"/> <— “This train is for Woolwich Arsenal”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="11:51" ptd="11:51" tpl="STJOHNS" wta="11:51" wtd="11:51:30"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="11:54" ptd="11:54" tpl="LEWISHM" wta="11:53:30" wtd="11:54:30"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:PP tpl="PKBGJN" wtp="11:56"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="11:58" ptd="11:59" tpl="HTHRGRN" wta="11:58" wtd="11:59"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="12:01" ptd="12:01" tpl="LEEE" wta="12:00:30" wtd="12:01"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="12:04" ptd="12:04" tpl="MOTNGHM" wta="12:03:30" wtd="12:04"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="12:06" ptd="12:06" tpl="NWELTHM" wta="12:06" wtd="12:06:30"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="WOLWCHA" pta="12:09" ptd="12:10" tpl="SIDCUP" wta="12:09" wtd="12:10"/> <— “This train is for Crayford”

<ns2:IP act="T " fd="SLADEGN" pta="12:12" ptd="12:12" tpl="ALBNYPK" wta="12:11:30" wtd="12:12"/> <— “This train is for Slade Green”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:14" ptd="12:14" tpl="BEXLEY" wta="12:14" wtd="12:14:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:17" ptd="12:18" tpl="CRFD" wta="12:17" wtd="12:18"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDSPB" wtp="12:20"/>

<ns2:OPIP act="OPA " tpl="CRFDSPR" wta="12:20:30" wtd="12:21"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDSPA" wtp="12:21:30"/>

<ns2:PP tpl="CRFDCKJ" wtp="12:22:30"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:24" ptd="12:25" tpl="SLADEGN" wta="12:23:30" wtd="12:25:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:28" ptd="12:28" tpl="ERITH" wta="12:27:30" wtd="12:28"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:30" ptd="12:30" tpl="BELVEDR" wta="12:30" wtd="12:30:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:33" ptd="12:33" tpl="ABWD" wta="12:33" wtd="12:33:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:36" ptd="12:36" tpl="PLMS" wta="12:36" wtd="12:36:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:39" ptd="12:39" tpl="WOLWCHA" wta="12:38:30" wtd="12:39:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:42" ptd="12:42" tpl="WOLWCDY" wta="12:41:30" wtd="12:42"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:45" ptd="12:45" tpl="CRLN" wta="12:44:30" wtd="12:45"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:47" ptd="12:47" tpl="WCOMBEP" wta="12:46:30" wtd="12:47"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:49" ptd="12:49" tpl="MAZEH" wta="12:48:30" wtd="12:49"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:52" ptd="12:52" tpl="GNWH" wta="12:51:30" wtd="12:52:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:54" ptd="12:54" tpl="DEPTFD" wta="12:54" wtd="12:54:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:PP tpl="NKENTEJ" wtp="12:56"/>

<ns2:IP act="T " pta="13:02" ptd="13:02" tpl="LNDNBDE" wta="13:01:30" wtd="13:02:30"/> <— “This train is for London Cannon Street”

<ns2:PP tpl="BORMRKJ" wtp="13:04"/>

<ns2:DT act="TF" pta="13:06" tpl="CANONST" wta="13:06"/>

</schedule>

</uR>

</Pport>

Another strange thing is that NRE doesn't return service for query from Cannon Street to Eright (next station after Slade Green), however it does return for query Lee -> Deptford which goes via Slade Green.

Is this on the Journey Planner, or the departure boards?

Is Darwin provide timetable for more then 1 day?

I looked at the timetable snapshot on 5th July and it looks like it has trains departing up until 0200 on 7th July.

Peter

[Tomasz Sadowski]

Hi Peter

Journey Planner

 

Is Darwin provide timetable for more then 1 day?

I looked at the timetable snapshot on 5th July and it looks like it has trains departing up until 0200 on 7th July.

Is it possible to build long term timetable for like one month? Wiki says it’s one day, real time data.

Is it possible to mix atoc feed with darwin? For example build timetable from CIF weekly feed then apply Darwin updates.

 

Peter