Train uid L01056 1st of July

[Adam Flax]

Hi all,

In the CIF data for this schedule I can see that the service passes through Haywards Heath at 12:12  (open train times and real time trains also agree with this)

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/L01056/2017-07-01

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L01056/2017/07/01/advanced

however I received the following push port message from Darwin

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<Pport xmlns="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/v12" xmlns:ns2="http://www.thalesgroup.com/rtti/PushPort/Schedules/v1" ts="2017-07-01T08:50:16.7336205+01:00" version="12.0">
<uR requestID="0000000000011444" requestSource="at09" updateOrigin="CIS">
<schedule rid="201707017601056" ssd="2017-07-01" toc="SN" trainCat="XX" trainId="1A51" uid="L01056">
<ns2:OR act="TB" ptd="11:58" tpl="BRGHTN" wtd="11:58"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:00" ptd="12:00" tpl="PRSP" wta="12:00" wtd="12:00"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="HASOCKS" wtp="12:06:06"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:08" ptd="12:08" tpl="BURGESH" wta="12:08" wtd="12:08"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="KEYMERJ" wtp="12:08:30"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="WVLSFLD" wtp="12:09:40"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:12" ptd="12:12" tpl="HYWRDSH" wta="12:12" wtd="12:12"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="CPYHLDJ" wtp="12:13:12"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BALCOMB" wtp="12:15:53"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BALCMTJ" wtp="12:17:31"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="THBDGS" wtp="12:19:53"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="TNSLYGJ" wtp="12:21:08"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="GTWK" wtp="12:22:25"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:23" ptd="12:23" tpl="HORLEY" wta="12:23" wtd="12:23"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="SALFDS" wtp="12:24:55"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="EARL136" wtp="12:26:03"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="EARLSWD" wtp="12:26:38"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="SNSTJN" wtp="12:33:20"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="PURLEY" wtp="12:34:32"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="PURLEYO" wtp="12:35:40"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="SCROYDN" wtp="12:36:50"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:38" ptd="12:38" tpl="ECROYDN" wta="12:38" wtd="12:38"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="WNDMLBJ" wtp="12:38:35"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="SELHRST" wtp="12:40:10"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="THTH" wtp="12:40:45"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="NORBURY" wtp="12:42:03"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="STRHCOM" wtp="12:42:40"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="STRENJN" wtp="12:43:03"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BALHJN" wtp="12:44:39"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BALHAM" wtp="12:45:05"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="WANDCMN" wtp="12:45:40"/>
<ns2:IP act="T " pta="12:47" ptd="12:47" tpl="CLPHMJC" wta="12:47" wtd="12:47"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="POUPRTJ" wtp="12:48"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BATRSPK" wtp="12:51:20"/>
<ns2:PP tpl="BATRSPJ" wtp="12:52:14"/>
<ns2:DT act="TF" pta="12:54" tpl="VICTRIC" wta="12:54"/>
</schedule>
</uR>
</Pport>

from that message Darwin seems to think that it was planned for the schedule to stop at Haywards Heath! This is very weird because Darwin has a mechanism to tell you if an activity at a location has changed and this is not reflected in this message!

Does anyone know what actually happened to this train on the day? who's right CIF or Darwin?  If Darwin is right does anyone know why the Haywards Heath calling point does not have an attribute of planAct?

[petermount]

Just taking a quick look at what I have for this:

http://uktra.in/rtt/train/201707017601056

I've got it stopping there at 12:14 and departing at 12:15, so as far as I can tell it did definitely stop.

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Adam

There was a message at 08:50 that morning where the Govia Thameslink LICC updated the schedule.

Did you get that message?

Peter

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[Adam Flax]

I can see that in the movement data as well but that does actually mean the schedule stopped there? I say that as TRUST doesn't really understand the difference between passing and calling points. The arrival and departure being different minutes could just be to a rounding accuracy issue as TRUST only reports at the minute level.

[Adam Flax]

I can only see 3 messages at 07:50 one was the schedule I posted, one was a forecast message and one was about a association update. Its possible I've dropped a message would it be possible to send that xml update to me?

thanks

Adam

[Peter Hicks]

Sorry, I may have been wrong in my previous message.

At 03:24 that day, a TS message came through from CIS AM02 with request ID AM02887034 which had:

<ns3:Location pta="12:12" ptd="12:12" tpl="HYWRDSH" wta="12:12" wtd="12:12"><ns3:arr et="12:12" src="Darwin"/><ns3:dep et="12:12" src="Darwin"/><ns3:length>10</ns3:length></ns3:Location>

The timetable for that day has the train calling at Haywards Heath, as does the timetable for the previous day.  So as far as Darwin is concerned, it appears it's always known the train will be calling at Haywards Heath from the get-go.

A point about schedules: these are only what's planned to happen.  A train could call at a location marked as a pass in the schedule, and to TRUST and Darwin, that's indistinguishable from a train which simply stops in a platform at a red signal.  Equally, a train could not call at a location marked as a call but pass through the platform slowly so give the appearance of having called there - again, TRUST and Darwin won't know the train *hasn't* called there.

In this case, it looks like the CIF doesn't have a call at Haywards Heath, but Darwin does and has shown it in the timetable two days running.  At a guess, the schedule was edited in Darwin and published thus.

OpenTrainTimes (my labour of love over the past years) doesn't currently use Darwin, so can't pick up this change to the schedule.  It may be that the passing location on TRUST was converted to a calling location, but when that happens, there's no message sent from TRUST to indicate this, so I can't change the schedule I have.

Peter