NRE LDBWS WSDL has changed

[Mike Flynn]

I don't know who else might be in the same boat as me.  I just noticed my live train times website which receives NRE LDBWS feeds had stopped receiving data.  I've since found the WSDL was changed leaving my existing one obsolete.

New url can be found on the documentation page: https://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/LDBWS/

I'm thinking I might have fallen out of their mailing list.  I've sent an email asking so though my contacts at NRE are currently out of the office.  Maybe their email found it's way to my junk box?  Either way, I also suggested they might like to post changes to this forum.  Does anyone else think this might help?

As a secondary point, I have also just noticed a change which is causing further problems to my site, though unforutunately I can't immediately look into it in any detail

->adhocAlerts->AdhocAlertTextType 

is now showing as

->adhocAlerts->AdhocAlertText

My question isn't so much this particular bug, it might just be one I haven't noticed before, it is does anyone know if this latest WSDL change also incorporates specification changes?

Regards

Mike Flynn

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Mike

Which version of the schema were you using previously?  IIRC, the current and (probably) last two are supported, and emails are sent out to all subscribers to the mailing list when it's updated.

Peter

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[Mike Flynn]

Hi Peter,

The evidence is pointing me to being off their email (or still for them all to be going to junk).  I save all notes/newsletter as a matter of course.  And I don't remember receiving any recently and the last one I have is from 24th Oct, 2015.  Version I was using was;

https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/wsdl.aspx?ver=2014-02-20

I vaguely recall changing this fairly recently though.  I remember being asked to shift to the 'lite' version.  It'll be in one of the newsletters.  I've also being used in the past;

http://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/ldbws/wsdl.aspx

https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/wsdl.aspx

In my email to them I asked if old url might be backword compatible.  I've no idea whether they can do this or not but suggested it anyway.

But no point crying over spilt milk.  Just thought I'd post here to save anyone else having a dud data for longer than necessary.  As far as I can gather, it looks like the url changed around 5pm yesterday.

[Mike Flynn]

>> the url changed around 5pm yesterday.

or what I mean is my version became obsolete then.

[Mike Flynn]

Hi again Peter (or anyone else who can help),

I've been through newsletters I did receive and from one of 26/06/2015 I find this;

"Please note that Darwin LITE is not supported by the service desk.  For advice and peer support for Darwin LITE you can visit https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/openraildata-talk. Please note that this forum is not monitored or supported by NRE."

This being the case, can anyone tell me who to contact or how to get back on to the mailing list?  It's a while back since I initially subscribed (years ago) and am now unsure.  As I say I emailed a couple of contacts I have from NRE but they are out of the office for some time and I'm feeling a little helpless at the moment.

I also had this a few days ago from Rockshore;

"Please be advised that we have deleted your National Rail Darwin Data Distribution account due to an extended period of inactivity on your data feed. If you would like to access the Darwin data feeds again, you will need to re-register for a new account at https://datafeeds.nationalrail.co.uk ."

That's okay because I'm not currently using the Darwin data feeds (I believe this refers to the push-portal).  I trust I'm still subscribed to this though.  As far as I'm aware this is separate from Dawin LDBWS.  But maybe they're now one and the same?

I'd be grateful if someone could help my confusion and for the latest information on how to stay subscribed.

Regards,

Mike

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Mike

You can subscribe to the mailing list at http://nationalrail.us9.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=1a18879bce80ff4c42e7c247b&id=88313e739c.

Peter

[Mike Flynn]

>> You can subscribe to the mailing list at http://nationalrail.us9.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=1a18879bce80ff4c42e7c247b&id=88313e739c

Thanks :)

[Mike Flynn]

Hi Peter,

* As an aside, what would we do without you?  You obviously put a lot of work into this forum the amount of and scope of questions answered.  How do you find the time?

Peter or anyone else,

Sorry to say, I'm still on the subject!  It seems I'm already subscribed.  So maybe mail has being going into my junk box?  Well, I don't think so since I don't use one.  I let all mail into my Inbox and just skim through.  I hope I don't come across paranoid or whatever, and it's not an junk email question, but I'm keen to get to the bottom of my failure to note new WDSL changes.  Needless to say it's important to me.  Does anyone know of a list with dates when WDSL url changes have been made and when they were notified?  I should be able to query my server and find out where the mail's are going and dates are going to be a great help.

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Mike

On 12 May 2016, at 18:21, Mike Flynn <mi...@a1publishing.com> wrote:

Hi Peter,

* As an aside, what would we do without you?  You obviously put a lot of work into this forum the amount of and scope of questions answered.  How do you find the time?

When you have a passion for helping others do successful things with rail data, you find the time.  And at the moment, it’s all in my free time!

Sorry to say, I'm still on the subject!  It seems I'm already subscribed.  So maybe mail has being going into my junk box?  Well, I don't think so since I don't use one.  I let all mail into my Inbox and just skim through.  I hope I don't come across paranoid or whatever, and it's not an junk email question, but I'm keen to get to the bottom of my failure to note new WDSL changes.  Needless to say it's important to me.  Does anyone know of a list with dates when WDSL url changes have been made and when they were notified?  I should be able to query my server and find out where the mail's are going and dates are going to be a great help.

I’m not sure of the dates when the OpenLDBWS Lite WSDL changed.  It might be an idea to use a tool to monitor, say daily, https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/, and alert you when there are any changes.  I used an extension on Chrome to do this, it needn’t be too taxing, and I don’t think you need to know instantly when the page and WSDL version changes.

Peter

[Mike Flynn]

>>  It might be an idea to use a tool to monitor, say daily, https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/, and alert you when there are any changes.

That's a good answer.  I'll can do and will strive to find the time to do this. Thanks again!

[Mike Flynn]

>>  I used an extension on Chrome to do this

Me again!  I reread your answer Peter.  I never knew this was possible.  I can do this over a cup of coffee!  Easy when you think about it.

[Derek Goodwin]

If you specify the version you are using like 2014-02-20 in this URL https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/wsdl.aspx?ver=2014-02-20 then any new version changes will not affect you

[Mike Flynn]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your input.

>> If you specify the version you are using like 2014-02-20 in this URL https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/wsdl.aspx?ver=2014-02-20 then any new version changes will not affect you

That makes perfect sense and thinking about it it's what I would have expected.  So I've re-tested using the ..ver=2014-02-20 url and it does indeed return valid responses.

What happened yesterday, I noticed, largely by chance, my LDBWS request were returning empty datasets.  I subsequently have seen from my Google Analytic account (see attached gif) that bounce rate for my site dropped sharply around 5pm the previous day.  Trying to solve the problem one of my first ports of call was the documentation site at https://lite.realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWS/.  Here I saw a newer WSDL.  Pointing my website at it immediately fixed the problem.  The bounce rate returned to normal. 

- - - - - 

Now, I know, or have the feeling, I'm a bit of a nuisance sometimes to some folk maybe because of my arguably strident views.  And here I go again.  This is yet another example of why I'm being pushed away from using uk railways open data, particularly from NRE.  Whatever happened with the old version WDSL not returning data for the period, and I've little doubt the error was at the provider end, the far bigger point for me is I'm left almost completely helpless.  There's no service desk to contact.  Even now I can only conjecture what happened.  There is no concrete way of knowing.  Of course, this forum can be a great help but it's hardly any kind of business proposition.  And I've jumped through so many hoops trying to get a better deal whether with open or commercial data provision but with little success and often just left running round in circles.  At the NRE developer days they say they want/need developers to use their data so as to provide a better experience for the public but I just find those words hollow.

Anyone in business will tell you it's a bad idea having all your eggs in the one basket.  I would love to spend more of my time and resources providing better rail sites, there's loads more I could do, but if the LDBWS plug is pulled, for whatever reason, and worse, if the NR timetable feed was to go I'd be sunk.  And without the security of mind I have no choice but to diversify.

I do like to have my say though.

Cheers