What is berth *93*

[russell pirie]

Saw this last night around 11.30. Some berths showing *93* I think it is something to-do with the Easter engineering works? Does it mean do not use this line or something?

And there are some *LB* around the same area right now.

Regards

Russell Pirie

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Russell

On 30 Mar 2015, at 10:57, russell pirie <rus...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Saw this last night around 11.30. Some berths showing *93* I think it is something to-do with the Easter engineering works? Does it mean do not use this line or something?
>
> And there are some *LB* around the same area right now.

LB is Line Blocked, the 93 is a reference to item 93 in the Western and Wales WON, which was from 2300 Sunday to 0445 Monday.


Peter

[jo...@ellenby.eu]

Russell Pirie,

Are you able to contact me, as I'd be very interested in what you are doing with the signal berth data, as I've also been spending a lot of time working with berth level data over the last few weeks.

I'm particularly intrigued by yor track plan with berths and whether you generated it yourself or have managed to source it from somewhere?

Ta,

Joni Ellenby.

[russell pirie]

Hello

The diagrams are not mine they are part of the members area on http://railcam.uk/site/ you can access them by helping the site out and given a small donation.

[petermount]

There are some maps on the nrod wiki as well.

For me I've done a few areas manually by recording the relevant TD for a day or two to generate a graph of which berths are linked to what & then associate those to specific locations via the SMART data set.

It's not accurate but it does get something working.

The ones I've done, either manually or based on maps in the wiki are listed here: http://uktra.in/signal/map

Peter

On Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:35:36 UTC+1, jo...@ellenby.eu wrote:

[Peter Hicks]

On 02/04/15 10:51, russell pirie wrote:
> The diagrams are not mine they are part of the members area
> on http://railcam.uk/site/ you can access them by helping the site out
> and given a small donation.

There are also a bunch of 'free at the point of use' ones at
http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/ - disclaimer: they're all my work.


Peter

[jo...@ellenby.eu]

Both Peters,

Would you be able to help me to do a similar implementation for the signalling areas I've been working on? I've been drawing out in autocad from continual monitoring of the TD data and also the NESA data.

It is painfully slow piecing together track diagrams to signalling berths!


Regards,

[Dave Butland]

I have been recording all the train movements this year and have created a tool to create diagrams from the TD movements. I've been a bit busy with other projects recently so haven't managed to finish it off and deploy it in a usable state yet. Happy to coordinate with others to make this data more universally available.  My intention is to digitise the sectional diagrams and then position the TD's and Signals on the maps. I've also created the ability to map the data geographically and want to overlay these onto real world objects. Some work has already been done on this I believe. 

At the moment I see lots of people trying to do the same thing independently. Maybe we should look for some more coordination?

Dave.

[petermount]

I'm up for that.

I had been planning on doing that with the td movements as I keep on being asked for LB & VC areas by my users & finding the time to do it has been a problem recently.

[Ben Woodward]

Is there a chance of accessing these historical data sets?

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[Joni Ellenby]

Ben,

I can provide historical data for the WTV area, which has collected all the possible td berth links, as I've just archived it off.

Problem being, NR resignalled the slough and reading are over Easter, so most of the data is obsolete, or atleast the signal berths have new numbers associated with them... So you'd have to work out what the new names are...

Still interested in the data? As soon as I have a few days to monitor the area, I'll be able to distribute new links.

[Dave Butland]

I have no problem with giving people access to the data but, if people are game, then I have created a user interface when you can drag the TD nodes and create a map. I'm happy to give people access to that then a process for exporting the data, with positions. You might need to give me a couple of weeks as I'm on a short week this week and then sole responsible adult for my daughter next week (god help us both). 

I stuck this up awhile back for a laugh, it's a force network made up of the train movements. Select an area and you'll get a spider diagram of the connected nodes. It pulses every 5 seconds when it checks for train updates. Hover over the TD's for any associated SMART data or train head codes. The nodes are static (generated from the TD feed on a batch basis) and there is no intelligence in the diagram, just the fact that a train once moved from one node to the other (in the direction of the arrow). It's just for fun but it might give food for thought. 

The editor is similar but allows nodes and connections to be moved. I want to update it to allow track and platforms to be placed and to enable the "underlay" of section diagrams. Shame NetworkRail won't share the digital version of these diagrams (yet?). 

Dave.

[Dave Butland]

Joni, 

I'm interested in how you are going to untangle this data. I was going to just wipe the slate clean so to speak next weekend and see what train movements through Reading looked like from then on. At some point I will need to go back and unpick it if I want historical data around Reading. 

I suspect the guys at realtimetrains.co.uk have some interesting data as they have some impressive results already. 

Dave.

[Ben Woodward]

I have friends that work in the WTV area so can probably quite easily
get you the 'right' berth arrangements :)

[petermount]

That brings up the question, if they resignalled Slough/Reading then is there an updated copy of Smart? I'm presuming that the entries in there will be out of sync now.

Peter

On Tuesday, 7 April 2015 15:26:37 UTC+1, Joni Ellenby wrote:

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Peter

On 07/04/15 17:03, petermount wrote:
> That brings up the question, if they resignalled Slough/Reading then
> is there an updated copy of Smart? I'm presuming that the entries in
> there will be out of sync now.

Changes to SMART will have taken place at commissioning time, but the
extract is only produced monthly, so there's always a lag. It's not
possible to get an updated extract each time as it's a manual process to
extract the data.

I don't think this month's one has come through yet, so it's very likely
it'll have the resignalling at Slough included in it.


Peter

[petermount]

Ok thanks, I just thought about that & wasn't certain what the update frequency for SMART was. I rarely update mine as not automated it at my end yet either.

Thanks,

[Joni Ellenby]

Dave, once you have collected some data, it shouldn't be too hard to work out on a node by node basis what they have renamed the berths to, and most links are shown after a few trains have gone over the lines.

Obviously the current SMART data for the Reading and Slough area is pretty pointless, as it references no existant berths.

AFAIK the berths in the station areas and on new points haven't changed, just ones with older naming like UM32.

[russell pirie]

Dave Butland I would be very interested in playing with your editor.

Regards

Russell Pirie

[Keith Thomson]

Hi,

I would also be interested in having a look at your editor.  I had a quick hack myself this weekend using http://jung.sourceforge.net/index.html to draw a graph from scratch with nodes added live as trains stepped through the births.

I was just using simsig (Exeter) as a source for the data and it still took a while to untangle everything even with the display available....

cheers

Keith

[Ben Woodward]

Simsig Exeter is not a good reference, lots of things are wrongly named

--

[Juhani Pirttilahti]

Yes I'm also doing this thing. I have created maps for some train describers and they are available on the wiki. The process of gathering data is very straightforward, but placing berths correctly is a whole different story. A quick and dirty way to confirm the location is to find the signal from aerial imagery. I have collected coordinates for most of the associated signals (3500 records at the time of writing).

I agree that there is still some work to do and we should work together to get better results. I know there are some misplaced berths in current maps and they should be reviewed.

[Marcus]

All my data is for the CRS and Stanox locations of which I've mapped
about 2,700 and I do a few more from time to time... But I've never had
the joy of working out where specific signals are.

Happy to be part of the sharing circle though

http://www.trainspots.co.uk/codes-index.php

Cheers,

Marcus

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[Dave Butland]

Sorry, been a little busy with work recently but have a weekend free so will be doing some updates over the weekend. A couple of things that I am aiming to achieve (sprints allowing) are:

1) Update node and link data to take in current data

2) Expose node data through web service so people can extract it

3) Expose node editor so people can draw pretty diagrams (not sure about security model yet)

4) Implement schedule pages

5) Implement customer minutes lost pages

I'm thinking of setting up a collaborative working environment. Maybe with a git implementation so that people can use the same server and share work easier. I'm happy to provide the platform (mysql, tomcat, apache, apache-mq) to host solutions if this makes developing them much easier and quicker. Just an idea at the moment but open to suggestions.