Change en Route CIF changes?

[Andrew Powell]

Hi

Our company has been informed that a CIF file has changed by network rail, but we are unsure if this affects the JSON CIF file for the Nrod imports, it is in relation to a "Change en Route" field or row that has been added.

I have not received any emails about this being changed in the JSON CIF files, but wanted to confirm the fact?

Many thanks

Andrew

[Dom Rodriguez]

Hello,

"'Andrew Powell' via A gathering place for the Open Rail Data

From what I've read on the Open Rail Data wiki, CIF files != JSON
files. There's a chance I'm wrong, but AFAIK, CIF[0] is one format,
made for the use of Network Rail's ITPS and downstream operational &
information systems[0]. JSON[1] is another format, but its a *general*
format, used in many other systems as well (RESTful interfaces, for
example).

I hope this helps :)

> Many thanks
>
> Andrew

[0]: http://nrodwiki.rockshore.net/index.php/CIF_File_Format
[1]: http://nrodwiki.rockshore.net/index.php/JSON_File_Format

--
Best regards,
Dom Rodriguez (shymega / dzr).

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Andrew

On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 at 10:45 'Andrew Powell' via A gathering place for the Open Rail Data community <openrail...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Our company has been informed that a CIF file has changed by network rail, but we are unsure if this affects the JSON CIF file for the Nrod imports, it is in relation to a "Change en Route" field or row that has been added.

I have not received any emails about this being changed in the JSON CIF files, but wanted to confirm the fact?

The JSON schedule files don't contain any change-en-route records, so this proposed change by Network Rail will have no effect.

Peter

 

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[Andrew Powell]

Thank you, I was thinking that it wouldn't effect the JSON as Peter has said. Cheers

[Andrew Powell]

Thank you Peter, appreciate the reply

Many thanks

Andrew

[Chris Bailiss]

Does this mean the structure of the CIF files produced by the NROD platform has changed?  

My understanding of the NROD CIF files was that they are very lightly reprocessed versions of the original files produced by network rail.  So, presumably, any changes to the "Change En Route" data in the original network rail CIF files will also have affected the NROD files....

Is there a place where the current CIF specification is published, e.g. as a PDF?

Thanks

Chris

[Peter Hicks (Poggs)]

Hi Chris

> On 22 Dec 2017, at 17:52, Chris Bailiss <cbai...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does this mean the structure of the CIF files produced by the NROD platform has changed?

No - the change taking place next year is for change-en-route (CR) records to be produced for locations where the train doesn’t have a booked stop. This is for the new IEP trains (Class 800) which can change from Diesel to AC without stopping.

> My understanding of the NROD CIF files was that they are very lightly reprocessed versions of the original files produced by network rail. So, presumably, any changes to the "Change En Route" data in the original network rail CIF files will also have affected the NROD files....

That’s correct - they have some data on “freight” trains changed or removed, but that’s about it.

> Is there a place where the current CIF specification is published, e.g. as a PDF?

There’s a copy on the NR Open Data Wiki.


Peter



--

[Chris Bailiss]

Thanks Peter

> Is there a place where the current CIF specification is published, e.g. as a PDF?

>> There’s a copy on the NR Open Data Wiki.

Is the full CIF Specification PDF on the wiki?  If so, I must have missed it....

Chris

[Chris Northwood]

Not as a PDF, but it is here: http://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/CIF_File_Format

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[Chris Bailiss]

Thanks, I saw that, but it doesn't document all of the record types in the CIF specification.

I used a copy of the CIF End User Specification PDF when I started working with the CIF file format.  The PDF is about 50 pages long and covers all record types.  The copy I have is a few years old so I was hoping the current version is available somewhere.  The older version I have does effectively say confidential on it (though I think I found it on the internet).

Chris

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[Peter Hicks]

Hi Chris

Which record types are missing?

I don't think there have been any changes to any of the record types for a number of years - the last one, from memory, was the addition of the RSID in the BX record.

Peter

[Chris Northwood]

A quick Google finds https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/files/Publications/services/rsp/RSPS5046-01-00_Timetable_Information_Data_Feed_InterfaceSpecification.pdf

Note there's also an ATCO-CIF format which is derived from the National Rail one, but used for buses, which has many more different record types, if you may have seen that?

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[Peter Hicks]

The RSP specification is for the RSP (ATOC) Timetable Feed, which includes the RSID in the BX record of schedules, plus some other miscellaneous files.  Those aren't covered by the CIF specification.

The ATCO-CIF format uses the same record layout as CIF, and includes the letters "CIF", but is more of a fork from CIF rather than a variant, and I don't remember it having many parallels with the Network Rail CIF.

Peter

[Chris Bailiss]

Hi Peter

>> Which record types are missing?

The record types are listed in the wiki, but other than the BS and BX types, there aren't many details of each (field names, sizes, order, etc within each record type).

This is why I was looking for the PDF, since all that detail (and a whole lot more) is in there and it seems easiest to get the PDF (if it is available).

For the record, the document I have is the CIF End User Specification from Network Rail - it's 51 pages long.

It sounds like it isn't available however?  Perhaps an FOI request might help?

My immediate questions were/are to find out what changes were being made re: Change En Route for the IEP (e.g. is the record layout changing?).  However, since the PDF I have is quite a few years old, it makes sense to see if there is a more recent version available generally as well....

Chris

[Chris Bailiss]

I've put in an FOI request to see if I can get a copy of the full file specification PDF.  It may not come to anything, but hopefully common sense will allow it to be released, i.e. it makes sense to publish the specification given the format is being used by the NROD platform.

Chris

[Chris Bailiss]

My FOI request resulted in me obtaining a slightly more up to date version of the CIF user specification.  Please find attached.

Chris