Access to Knowledge Base Feeds

[vincent.p...@gmail.com]

Hi all,

I have been trying to get access to the 'KnowledgeBase' feeds, which are pointed out to be available with an NRE licence in the Developers Pack PDF, but have been un-able to find them.

I have of course applied (and since got) an NRE licence, so that is that part done. But since then I have been running around in circles not being able to find any mention of how to view these feeds..

If anyone could help and point me in the right direction it would be highly appreciated.

Regards,
Vincent Pemberton.

[Mike Flynn]

Hi Vincent,

Here's my situation, if it makes you feel any better.

I applied and was given licences for these feeds, first time, a year or two ago, and like you found myself running around in circles.  I just gave up and moved on after a good while.  

My interest was renewed a few months ago after posting to this thread, "NRE launches new arrangements for developers to access live train information" on the forum.  So I applied again and now have new licences.  Since then I've written maybe a dozen or so emails. Now here's the thing: NRE are busy and this open data thing is new to them.  They will explain it better than me and indeed there are posts (see above) from NRE staff detailing such.  And so sometimes replies can take a week and you might have to resend, etc.  I'm still waiting after a couple of months this time round.  I have been sent documentation, which details URLs for the feeds, but as yet I still have no access whatsoever.

I'm pragmatic about the whole thing.  The feeds and service would be very useful to me and my business.  But it's semi-free (see also thread for discussion).  What can you do?  If it happens great.  In the meantime I getting on with other stuff.

Mike

[vincent.p...@gmail.com]

That response sums up everything I have been wondering about perfectly. Thank you.

I read several posts in the forum but got more confused the more I read originally. I guess I will do the same as you and do my other jobs until I hear from NRE themselves then.

Thank you again for your response.

Regards,
Vincent Pemberton.

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Vincent

Which feeds did you sign a licence for? Were you given any URLs to access said feeds, or asked for the IP address you’ll be accessing them from?

If not, unless things have changed in the last year or so, access to the knowledgeable feeds (Incidents XML, Stations XML, etc.) is given via IP address whitelisting.


Peter

[Mike Flynn]

Hi Peter,

Is there a way to maintain your IP entry(s) held by NRE?  I had a few emails going back and forward re IPs.  I have been switching/testing providers recently so, as you can imagine, it gets a bit messy.  And one VPS I have is DHCP. I know I should be asking NRE for a definitive answer but, as above, I gave up after a while on non-replies. I have no idea which IP(s) they hold for me and anyway they are likely out of date now anyway never mind the non-static ones.  An automatic system will clearly be easier for everyone and I was thinking maybe just wait till then.  Also, how would access from home broadband DHCP connections work.  Any ideas? That said, this IP whitelisting is actually news to me.  I was aware of it but thought I also needed a token after I was getting 'FORBIDDEN' messages.  And the whitelisting was added as an extra layer.  I'll ask again to see what IP(s) they hold for me.

The underlying point remains though.  It's just not easy trying to get access to NRE services.  IMO, because it's free, that's the root of the problem!  You can't really complain, there's no breach of contract, etc. And, admittedly, from their point of view, I guess, 'developers' are just seen as a distraction.  I'm still waiting for news on how to proceed with the OJP service, billing procedures, etc.    And NRE usually don't reply to message for many days and often not at all.  It's just a fact.  Even though I don't want to fall out with them, what can I say?  Especially since I make good use of their Live Departure Boards and without problem for a few years now.

Any update on when the public automated system might be available?

Mike

[vincent.p...@gmail.com]

Hi Peter,

I just did the online registration, I did not apply for any specific feeds. I read the Developers Documentation PDF (as stated above) and that led me to the registration.

No I have no URLs to feeds at all, that was what I was originally trying to find, the PDF made it all sound simple.. As for IPs, well I haven't heard from NRE at all (aside the automated response to my registration) so as far as I am aware no I am not white listed nor was I aware of any such measures involved.

I am now trying to look instead at the Darwin feeds, not sure if they entail a similar process to get access to them? I am hoping that they are a URL to XML data, though I do not know much about it as of yet as the Developers Document doesn't seem to split the data into catagories like the Knowledge Base feeds do - Regardless, I cannot seem to find this out either at quick glance.

I have only been using NRE services since this very morning, though I must say it appears to be a very complex and difficult system to deal with as a 'user'.

Regards,
Vincent Pemberton.

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Mike

On 25 Mar 2015, at 12:48, Mike Flynn <mi...@a1publishing.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to maintain your IP entry(s) held by NRE? I had a few emails going back and forward re IPs. I have been switching/testing providers recently so, as you can imagine, it gets a bit messy. And one VPS I have is DHCP. I know I should be asking NRE for a definitive answer but, as above, I gave up after a while on non-replies. I have no idea which IP(s) they hold for me and anyway they are likely out of date now anyway never mind the non-static ones. An automatic system will clearly be easier for everyone and I was thinking maybe just wait till then. Also, how would access from home broadband DHCP connections work. Any ideas? That said, this IP whitelisting is actually news to me. I was aware of it but thought I also needed a token after I was getting 'FORBIDDEN' messages. And the whitelisting was added as an extra layer. I'll ask again to see what IP(s) they hold for me.

I think you might be creating a world of pain for yourself with trying to use the KB feed service in ways it wasn’t designed to be used. Can you stick to using just one box for pulling down the KB feeds?

The 403 Forbidden is different to the 401 Unauthorised - if you get a 403, trying authentication won’t work, but if you get a 401, you should try authentication.

> The underlying point remains though. It's just not easy trying to get access to NRE services. IMO, because it's free, that's the root of the problem! You can't really complain, there's no breach of contract, etc. And, admittedly, from their point of view, I guess, 'developers' are just seen as a distraction. I'm still waiting for news on how to proceed with the OJP service, billing procedures, etc. And NRE usually don't reply to message for many days and often not at all. It's just a fact. Even though I don't want to fall out with them, what can I say? Especially since I make good use of their Live Departure Boards and without problem for a few years now.

I had no trouble sending off a couple of emails to request access, signing a licence agreement and scanning/emailing it back. The biggest problem I had was trying to access the service from an IP address in the USA - the data wasn’t published on to the CDN’s IP address over there, so I had to put a workaround in on my side.

I don’t think NRE see developers as a distraction - but they (we?) are probably not the highest priority on the agenda, so we may not get preferential treatment. I won’t say whether I think that’s right or wrong, but there’s no such thing as a free lunch. However, just because access may be a manual process now (and because the people sorting out access may be busy with many other things), it doesn’t mean it always has to be like this.

What sort of model are you looking for that would make it easier for you? And would this model fit the needs of anyone else?


Peter

[Peter Hicks]

Hi Vincent

On 25 Mar 2015, at 13:21, vincent.p...@gmail.com wrote:

I just did the online registration, I did not apply for any specific feeds. I read the Developers Documentation PDF (as stated above) and that led me to the registration.

Which site did you register on?  If it was http://realtime.nationalrail.co.uk/OpenLDBWSRegistration, then that’s for the Live Departure Boards web service and not for the Knowledgebase feeds.

I have only been using NRE services since this very morning, though I must say it appears to be a very complex and difficult system to deal with as a 'user’.

Keep sharing your experiences - there are currently many ‘entry points’ to the maze of data, and that’s something I can improve on by writing an overview of everything for the Open Rail Data wiki!

Cheers,

Peter

[Mike Flynn]

Hi Peter,

>  Can you stick to using just one box for pulling down the KB feeds?

Yes, I can.  An example: I had set up a vps with new provider recently but after a backup and reinstall and they gave me a new IP.  Completely without warning.  So the need to backwords and forwards with NRE again.  A suggestion (though wouldn't work for everyone): whitelisting hostname option. 

> The 403 Forbidden is different to the 401 Unauthorised 

Actually, I didn't mean to be literal (though i did say 'forbidden' in quotes).  I've since been in contact with Anita and a single IP is being put forward for approval.  So hopefully I can get soon have access.

> it doesn’t mean it always has to be like this..

You're right and I understand they really do have a lot of interest for their services and not the resources currently to deal with it.  I'd like to say also my NRE experience is certainly improving over time.

> What sort of model are you looking for that would make it easier for you?

I've a minor suggestion and another more idealistic fundamental one.  I believe they are already addressing this issue but a support ticket system would be much easier for all, I'm sure.  On a longer term basis, a separate body to administer access and support, much like I think you already do with Network Rail, Peter, I think could provide a really good working model (though how the politics and fincances of this work I wouldn't like to guess :).

[nre...@gmail.com]

Hi Vincent,

Has anyone sent you the developer guides to review? If not you can request these through Anita(cc'd).

Thanks
Lindsay