Guiding when slewing

[acb]

I would like to use the ASCOM mount for guiding instead of the ST4.

However, when I try it, PHD2 won't let other applications slew the mount. It also disables the DEC adjustment on the Hand controller. It lets it move for a short period and then stops it.

I'm using the latest SGPro and Cartes du Ciel. Windows 10 and PHD2 2.6.4. Also the ASCOM POTH Hub.

My mount is a Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro.

What am I doing wrong?

Regards

[Andy Galasso]

Hello Arturo,

Not sure what is going on there. PHD2 itself should not prevent other applications from slewing since it only connects to the mount and sends guide pulses when needed. It is possible that you could be experiencing some of the instabilities introduced with some recent Windows 10 updates that impacted ASCOM. Please see the info at the top of the ASCOM home page here: http://ascom-standards.org/

I am not sure if it is related, but EQMOD ASCOM supports simultaneous connections from multiple applications and POTH hub is ordinarily not needed so you may be able to simplify things and remove POTH from your setup.

Andy

[acb]

Thanks Andy.

It is not the Windows update because I've already uninstalled it. That fixed other problems.

It seems that when the mount is slewing PHD2 is trying to guide at the same time causing a conflict.

If I stop the guiding then the mount slews just fine. If I'm not slewing PHD2 seems to be guiding fine.

Also if I check the "Stop guiding when mount slews" option it works on the second attempt to slew. Of course the guiding has stopped then.

It is not POTH becaus the same thing happens if I use the Skywatcher driver directly.

I won't use EQMOD anymore. Every other week there is a problem with it. It is also very unreliable and the EQMOD forum is totally unable to help me. I just gave up.

Anyway, how is the mount supposed to know which command to follow? The slewing or the guiding ?

Regards

[Brian Valente]

I wonder if it might be something in the order of which you connect the various programs?

 

I know that shouldn’t make a difference, but I slew while guiding all the time and I don’t have any issues (Losmandy gemini so not exactly the same)

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Brian

 

 

Brian Valente

Brianvalentephotography.com

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[acb]

Hey Brian.

It may be something exclusive to the Skywatcher mount or driver.

It is not the order of the programs. Even with no programs but just the hand controller the same thing happens.

[acb]

Andy,

For a long time I have been using the ST4 "on camera" connection plus the aux mount using the same POTH & Skywatcher driver. That works just fine.

But I've heard your recommendations on why using the mount directly is better. So, I would like to go that way.

Thanks

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 1:39:26 PM UTC-7, acb wrote:

[Bruce Waddington]

Forgive me for being dense here, but why are you trying to slew and guide at the same time?  What would you expect should happen?  By ‘guiding’, I mean PHD2 is actively trying to guide the mount, issuing guide pulses, not simply being connected to it.  If you’ve abandoned EQMOD, you may have wandered into the woods – I really don’t know.  Is there a support forum for this driver you’re using?   What you’re seeing sounds like a behavior of the ASCOM driver, it’s almost certainly nothing to do with PHD2.   The only reason PHD2 is unique is because it’s using pulse-guide commands for guiding, and the various planetarium apps don’t use those.

 

Good luck,

Bruce

 

From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of acb

Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 12:39 PM
To: Open PHD Guiding <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>

--

[acb]

Bruce,

You hit the nail right in the head. That is precisely the problem. I do not want to guide while slewing!. But, PHD2 continues to try guiding. Why doesn't it stop.

As you may have read in my posts it has nothing to do with POTH. The problem happens even when I'm not using it. 

I stopped using EQMOD because it is unreliable. If you've ever been in the EQMOD forum you'll see the hundreds of problems people are having. This definitively shows that at least it is not user friendly.

Oh, by the way, I don't think there is a specific forum for POTH. My guess is because it never fails. It just runs and runs and does what it is supposed to do. It allows several applications to connect to the same mount. That is all I need.

Also, as you may have read in my posts the planetarium programs don't have anything to do with the problem.

So, in summary the question is why is PHD2 trying to guide while I'm trying to do a slew?

Thanks

[Bruce Waddington]

 

 

From: Bruce Waddington [mailto:bw_m...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:19 PM
To: 'acb' <acaba...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [open-phd-guiding] Guiding when slewing

 

Ok, I think you have a misunderstanding.  The real question is why are you slewing when PHD2 is guiding?  You need to stop guiding first.  In most cases, what will happen is that PHD2 2 will lose the star and start sounding its audible alarm but it will still be trying to guide.  Whether it stops or not depends on the ASCOM driver and how the slew was initiated.  There is an option in PHD2 to halt guiding when a slew is detected (guiding tab) but that will work only if the slew was initiated by another ASCOM client app.  It’s on the guiding tab: Stop guiding when mount slews.  But that’s available only if the ASCOM driver supports it. 

 

So really, I think you’re just making trouble for yourself – nothing good will come from this.   Just stop guiding before you initiate a slew.  Even the automation apps do that.

 

Also, POTH is not really a mount driver – it is just a software layer that sits on top of the real ASCOM mount driver.  Presumably, you have it configured to talk to the ASCOM driver for your mount (not EQMOD).  So all of this behavior will depend on what that underlying driver is doing.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

But in any case, I think you are just beating your head against the wall.  Guiding should be stopped before slewing begins.

[Andy Galasso]

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Bruce Waddington <bw_m...@earthlink.net> wrote:

 

Just stop guiding before you initiate a slew.  Even the automation apps do that.

SGP runs the show and it will stop PHD2 from guiding before slewing to a target.  Is the problem happening during an SGP sequence, or are you slewing manually while PHD2 is still guiding?

[Brian Valente]

Afaik sgp doesn't issue that command. I check the box stop hiding when skewing and it works fine for me. 

B

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Brian 

Brian Valente

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[Brian Valente]

>> So, in summary the question is why is PHD2 trying to guide while I'm trying to do a slew?

 

I think there might be some confusion as to what is deciding when to guide and when not to

 

PHD doesn’t make that decision

 

You either a) push the guide button or b) an external program tells PHD to start or stop guiding

 

 

So if it’s a) then you need to manually stop guiding or b) the program needs to tell PHD to stop guiding. If the external app doesn’t do that, then there is a problem somewhere in the chain, or it may not be telling it at all.

 

 

Bruce/Andy – on the “stop guiding when slewing” option, how does it determine when the mount is slewing? Is it star movement or does it read some property from the mount or driver?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Brian

 

 

Brian Valente

Brianvalentephotography.com

 

From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of acb

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 5:55 PM
To: Open PHD Guiding <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [open-phd-guiding] Guiding when slewing

 

Bruce,

[Bruce Waddington]

Hi Brian.  PHD2 is reading the ‘IsSlewing’ property from the ASCOM driver, but not all drivers support that property.  And some try to support it but get it wrong, which is why the UI control had to be added. <g>

 

Bruce

 

From: open-phd...@googlegroups.com [mailto:open-phd...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:52 PM
To: 'acb' <acaba...@sbcglobal.net>; 'Open PHD Guiding' <open-phd...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [open-phd-guiding] Guiding when slewing

 

>> So, in summary the question is why is PHD2 trying to guide while I'm trying to do a slew?

[Brian Valente]

Makes sense

 

My guess in this situation is acb expects (and reasonably so) that PHD will stop when the mount starts slewing, but something somewhere doesn’t support that, so it has to be manually stopped on the PHD interface…   maybe?

 

Thanks

 

Brian

 

 

Brian Valente

Brianvalentephotography.com

 

[acb]

Andy and all,

Thank for your interest.

Let me try to explain what I would like to do.

1. At present I'm using the ST4 "on camera". Whenever I do a manual slew in SGPro, PHD2 just looses the star, stops guiding and lets me know that the star has been lost. It also beeps. But most importantly for me is that the slew continues unimpeded to the target.

2. When I try to use the mount directly instead of the ST4. Whenever I do a manual slew in SGPro the mount moves a little and stops without any message or warning. That's really what bothers me. Because I'm not always looking at the mount and when I take a picture the target isn't there. Also if I try to slew using the hand controller the mount won't move.

3. Again, I've been using the ST4 succesfully. So, I'm not complaining. PHD2 does a great job. I'd just would like to get rid of the ST4 cable and get some of the other benefits.

So, How do I do that? Is it even possible with my brand of mount?

[acb]

Andy,

I tried starting a sequence in SGPro and it seems to work OK. However, it won't work when I try to do a manual slew from the target settings dialog, or if I try to use the move the mount in the control panel. The hand controller won't work either.

If I stop the guiding manually everything works. If that's the only way that PHD2 works so be it. But that means I have to remember to stop the guiding before the slews. If I forget. I won't know the mount didn't move until I take an image. I'm not sure I like that so if that's the case I'll just stick to using the ST4 connection.

So, whatever you recommend Andy is fine with me and any suggestions are always appreciated.

Regrards

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 7:48:28 PM UTC-7, Andy Galasso wrote:

[acb]

Bruce,

I was going to keep my mouth shut. But, I find your comments offensive and uncalled for. I'm may be new to astrophotography but I'm not stupid as you are suggesting. I have my reasons for asking what I asked. And whatever you may think doesn't make you right. In fact I'm convinced you are pretty ignorant and have no respect for others. So please keep your offensive comments to yourself

[Andy Galasso]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:02 PM, acb <acaba...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I tried starting a sequence in SGPro and it seems to work OK. However, it won't work when I try to do a manual slew from the target settings dialog, or if I try to use the move the mount in the control panel. The hand controller won't work either.

If I stop the guiding manually everything works. If that's the only way that PHD2 works so be it. But that means I have to remember to stop the guiding before the slews. If I forget. I won't know the mount didn't move until I take an image. I'm not sure I like that so if that's the case I'll just stick to using the ST4 connection.

That sounds to me like a limitation of the ASCOM driver.  You may need to bring the issue to the attention of the driver developer.

As I understand it so far, it is not a problem when SGP explicitly stops PHD2 when it is going to center a target, but when you start a slew manually it won't slew unless you explicitly stop PHD2 first.

Until the ASCOM driver is fixed, I believe you will need to manually manage it by ensuring that PHD2 is stopped before you slew.

I don't think there is anything we can do on the PHD2 side since PHD2 already stops guiding when it detects the slew.

If you want to go back to using ST4, that's probably a reasonable work-around for the problem, especially since you are able to use the Aux mount connection. With the Aux mount connection you are getting all the benefits of PHD2 knowing where the scope is pointing; the only real advantage of using the "pure" ASCOM-only connection would be that you get to eliminate the ST4 cable.

Andy

[bvalente]

Actually I think your comments are uncalled for. 

Bruce is a straight forward guy and I don't read any disrespect in his comments at all. 

He may take a step back and ask what is really going on here. I don't see him speaking down to you. 

As far as suggesting he's ignorant, you may want to rethink your comment. He is one of the main authors of phd2 and is take good advice over your comments any day. 

In fact you may want to rethink all your contest below. I'm sorry you're offended and you'll probably find we are all volunteering our time to help you. 

Brian 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

[mark matzner]

acb,

I have followed this thread from the beginning and it took me a while to understand what you were asking.  I suspect the amount of back-and-forth no doubt has proven frustrating to you.  Problem is it took time to figure out your issue.

As long as I've used PHD (old and new), I've not had a need to slew while guiding.  My view is that PHD has control over the mount while guiding and asking for a manual slew at that point would result in a conflict.  So my practice is to stop guiding, slew, and then recommence guiding.  I've used both the ST4 and ASCOM methods in the same manner, but appreciate that the ST4 may have worked for you.

As far as your comments about Bruce .... you should understand that he is one of the most (if not the most) knowledgeable, generous and patient individuals on this forum.  On one of my recent questions, I felt obliged to comment that I always got the best guidance with never a hint of condescension.

Don't give up on this group.  Great software and a great forum.

My two cents,

Mark

[randy....@gmail.com]

I have an EQ 6 R pro and use APT. I use the SkyWatcher ASCOM driver and APT for capture. When I connect APT to PHD2, APT stops guiding when I slew. One use for this is when performing a meridian flip, but APT stops guiding anytime I slew, though I agree it is simple enough to stop the guiding manually. I’d look at SGP, not PHD2 or the SkyWatcher ASCOM driver.