Fwd: NYC Open Data Bill

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Lou Klepner

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May 27, 2010, 10:31:43 AM5/27/10
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Hi folks,

A revised bill is under way to mandate that NYC Government data be made available to public. I hope list members will take a moment to review and comment on the revised bill, a draft of which can be found in the attached Word doc.

Best,
Lou

From Jeffrey Baker: 

The New York City Council Committee on Technology is considering holding a hearing on Int. No. 29 (attached) in June, which is an amended version of Int. No. 991-A from last session.  The Committee would like your feedback and suggestions for improving this bill.

The bill was drafted in order to address an issue with the prior version.  The previous version of the bill could be read to require the government to constantly monitor all computer usage and to determine whether or not any data entered would be required to be put online.  Obviously, such a requirement would be expensive and time consuming.  This version of the bill seeks to more narrowly define exactly which data sets should be made available online, and seeks to avoid any requirement by the City to periodically review the files on individual personal computers, laptops and handheld devices.  The bill accomplishes this largely by narrowly defining “data,” “data set,” and “public data set.”

Please review the bill and let us know if there is any way we could improve it.

If you know anyone else who may be interested in reviewing the bill, please feel free to forward it to them.

If you have any questions about the bill, or would like to make comments, please contact me at jtb...@council.nyc.gov or at 212-788-9193.

 

Thank you,

 

Jeffrey Baker

Council to the Committee on Technology

New York City Council

250 Broadway, 14th Floor

New York, NY 10007

212-788-9193

 

Int 29.doc

Jonathan Gray

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May 29, 2010, 5:35:10 AM5/29/10
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Thanks for this!

"e. All public data sets shall be made available without any
registration requirement, license requirement or restrictions on their
use."

Does this mean that there are intentions for the data to be placed in
the public domain? E.g. using CC0 or PDDL? If so it would be great to
explicitly state this!

All the best,

Jonathan

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May 29, 2010, 1:26:17 PM5/29/10
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Remember that this bill will be entering the City Charter and cannot be too specific for short time periods. The language should reflect >15 years. Just a thought, but we will look into the language to see if it's appropriate to say simply "public domain". Good idea!


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Andrew Hoppin

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May 29, 2010, 3:06:39 PM5/29/10
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Is there any research available on the fiscal impact of this Bill?  I think most legislatures won't pass sweeping Open Government laws with gov't budgets as they are without a solid understanding of fiscal impact... Personally I have a thesis that Open Government (esp. open data publishing) will REDUCE costs / increase government efficiency over time, but we need hard data as well as solid assessment methodology to prove or disprove that.... I think this kind of analysis is needed at the local, State, and Federal levels.  

Does anyone have any research or refined thinking to that end?  I've started an Etherpad here to collect that info if so, and will be populating it with some of my own research, and our data from our work in the NYSenate.  Please post your information and thinking there too!  :)    http://etherplans.org/Open-20Government-20Costs-20--20Savings

Best,
Andrew

samwo...@gmail.com

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May 29, 2010, 4:12:42 PM5/29/10
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The Council's Finance division would usually perform a fiscal analysis of any adopted bill. Since this bill is still in its legislative infancy, its probably hard to get any numbers; however, the Mayor's Office (if you recall from last year) said that it would cost the City $500 million on the sine die version of Int 029 (formerly 991). I have the faintest clue where they got the estimate from. You can view the Administration's POV on this bill at www.nycctechcomm.wordpress.com and look under Open Government. In any case I can check to see if we can get some numbers, possibly from IBO, OMB or even just a small analysis in our finance division.

Andrew, let me know if you need any help. I will be interning at OpenPlans (OpenMuni) this summer to research the best practices of each "open" city and possibly take a look at the cost-benefit analysis of being open (maybe even quantitative). It would be interesting to see how much of an impact BigApps I or Apps for Democracy produced.

Sam

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: Andrew Hoppin <andrew...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 15:06:39 -0400
Subject: Re: [open-government-nyc:345] Fwd: NYC Open Data Bill

Lou Klepner

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Jun 1, 2010, 11:33:20 AM6/1/10
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Hi Jonathan,

In response to your question, as a list administrator I've received a email from an individual which has requested anonymity. Their take on your question is as follows -

Best,
Lou

---

I do not specialize in copyright law, so my understanding of the subject may be flawed, however, I believe that “raw data” cannot be copyrighted under US law.
 
“What remains is a thin layer of copyright protection for qualifying databases. In order to qualify, they must exhibit some modicum of creativity in the selection, arrangement, or coordination of the data. The protection is thin in that only the creative elements (selection, arrangement, or coordination of data) are protected by copyright. Explanatory materials such as introductions or footnotes to databases may also be copyrightable. But in no case is the data itself (as distinguished from its selection, coordination or arrangement) copyrightable.”
-- Statement of David O. Carson, General CounselUnited States Copyright Office, September 23, 2003
 
I cannot say at this time how much creativity in the selection, arrangement, or coordination of the data NYC data sets will have.  My guess would be: very little.  A “white pages” style phone book, for example, is not copyrightable.  Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co., 499 U.S. 340 (1991)http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/499_US_340.htm.
 
To the extent that NYC databases are copyrighted, this bill will NOT put them in the public domain.  I do not anticipate that this will be a problem.

Jonathan Gray

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Jun 1, 2010, 11:48:44 AM6/1/10
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Absolutely - I agree that the situation vis a vis rights in data is
different to, say, EU countries where there are things like Database
Directive. That said, I would add that it would nevertheless be
valuable to have a legal statement from the publishers of the data
making it absolutely clear that anyone can use the data for any
purpose - rather than depending on a certain legal interpretation of
whether or not (and to what extent) the relevant bodies have rights.

While using a tool like CC0 or PDDL is one good way to do this, a
legal statement to the effect that there are no restrictions on reuse
would be better than nothing. Whatever the mechanism, it would ideally
be compliant with things like:

http://www.opendefinition.org/okd/

My 2c is that it would be valuable to have something (very basic)
along these lines in the bill at the outset - to eliminate possible
ambiguity later on. E.g. public bodies wanting to restrict commercial
reuse.

All the best,

Jonathan

Ken Matthews

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Jun 1, 2010, 9:14:26 PM6/1/10
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Good insight!  Ken
Ken (chapkenmat) Matthews
Baltimore, Maryland
USAID Washington DC
chapk...@gmail.com
443 600-6816 (text & voice)


WEBSITE: In Progress
BLOG: http://concerningelectronicrecordmanagement.blogspot.com
TWITTER:  http://twitter.com/chapkenmat


Philip Ashlock

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Jun 3, 2010, 2:24:30 AM6/3/10
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In the U.S., works by the federal government can't be copyrighted, but this isn't always the case for local government. As mentioned before, U.S. copyright doesn't cover facts so most raw data is public domain and even if it has a unique database structure, it doesn't take much to extract the data out of that unique structure. Regardless, the precedents for this type of policy show that national level policies are very explicit about how permissive the licensing of the data is while many local governments are relatively restrictive:

See:
http://wiki.openmuni.org/Open_Data_Policy

I agree with Jonathan that it's better to be explicit than rely on legal interpretation.


Jonathan Gray wrote:
Hi Jonathan,
In response to your question, as a list administrator I've received a email
from an individual which has requested anonymity. Their take on your
question is as follows -
Best,
Lou
---
I do not specialize in copyright law, so my understanding of the subject may
be flawed, however, I believe that �raw data� cannot be copyrighted
under�US�law.

�What remains is a thin layer of copyright protection for qualifying
databases. In order to qualify, they must exhibit some modicum of creativity
in the selection, arrangement, or coordination of the data. The protection
is thin in that only the creative elements (selection, arrangement, or
coordination of data) are protected by copyright. Explanatory materials such
as introductions or footnotes to databases may also be copyrightable. But in
no case is the data itself (as distinguished from its selection,
coordination or arrangement) copyrightable.�
-- Statement of David O. Carson,�General�Counsel,�United States�Copyright
Office,�September 23, 2003
http://www.copyright.gov/docs/regstat092303.html

I cannot say at this time how much creativity in the selection, arrangement,
or coordination of the data NYC data sets will have.� My guess would be:
very little.� A �white pages� style phone book, for example, is not
copyrightable.��Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co.,
499�U.S.�340
(1991).�http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/499_US_340.htm.

To the extent that NYC databases are copyrighted, this bill will NOT put
them in the public domain.� I do not anticipate that this will be a problem.

On May 29, 2010, at 5:35 AM, Jonathan Gray wrote:

Thanks for this!

"e. All public data sets shall be made available without any
registration requirement, license requirement or restrictions on their
use."

Does this mean that there are intentions for the data to be placed in
the public domain? E.g. using CC0 or PDDL? If so it would be great to
explicitly state this!

All the best,

Jonathan



On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Lou Klepner <lkle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi folks,

A revised bill is under way to mandate that NYC Government data be made

available to public. I hope list members will take a moment to review and

comment on the revised bill, a draft of which can be found in the attached

Word doc.

Best,

Lou

From Jeffrey Baker:

The New York City Council Committee on Technology is considering holding a

hearing on Int. No. 29 (attached) in June, which is an amended version of

Int. No. 991-A from last session.� The Committee would like your feedback

and suggestions for improving this bill.

The bill was drafted in order to address an issue with the prior version.

The previous version of the bill could be read to require the government to

constantly monitor all computer usage and to determine whether or not any

data entered would be required to be put online.� Obviously, such a

requirement would be expensive and time consuming.� This version of the bill

seeks to more narrowly define exactly which data sets should be made

available online, and seeks to avoid any requirement by the City to

periodically review the files on individual personal computers, laptops and

handheld devices.� The bill accomplishes this largely by narrowly defining

�data,� �data set,� and �public data set.�

Please review the bill and let us know if there is any way we could improve

it.

If you know anyone else who may be interested in reviewing the bill, please

feel free to forward it to them.

If you have any questions about the bill, or would like to make comments,

please contact me at jtb...@council.nyc.gov or at 212-788-9193.



Thank you,



Jeffrey Baker

Council to the Committee on Technology

New York City Council

250 Broadway, 14th Floor

New York, NY 10007

212-788-9193



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Jonathan Gray

Community Coordinator
The Open Knowledge Foundation
http://blog.okfn.org

http://twitter.com/jwyg
http://identi.ca/jwyg

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.


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Philip Ashlock
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Philip Ashlock

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Jun 7, 2010, 5:46:06 PM6/7/10
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RE:� Int. No. 29 - A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to creating open data standards.

Please be advised that the Committee on Technology will hold a hearing on Monday, June 21, 2010 at 10:00 a.m. in the 16th Floor Hearing Room, 250 Broadway, New York, NY regarding the above-referred topic.

You can view the bill online at:
http://dropbox.ashlock.us/opengov/int-29.html

Phil


Lou Klepner wrote:
Hello,

My apologies if you receive this twice.�

A revised bill is under way to mandate that NYC Government data be made available to public.�I hope list members will take a moment to review and comment on this latest attempt at transparency at the city level, a draft of which can be found in the attached Word doc.

Best,
Lou

From Jeffrey Baker:�

The New York City Council Committee on Technology is considering holding a hearing on Int. No. 29 (attached) in June, which is an amended version of Int. No. 991-A from last session.� The Committee would like your feedback and suggestions for improving this bill.

The bill was drafted in order to address an issue with the prior version.� The previous version of the bill could be read to require the government to constantly monitor all computer usage and to determine whether or not any data entered would be required to be put online.� Obviously, such a requirement would be expensive and time consuming.� This version of the bill seeks to more narrowly define exactly which data sets should be made available online, and seeks to avoid any requirement by the City to periodically review the files on individual personal computers, laptops and handheld devices.� The bill accomplishes this largely by narrowly defining �data,� �data set,� and �public data set.�

Please review the bill and let us know if there is any way we could improve it.

If you know anyone else who may be interested in reviewing the bill, please feel free to forward it to them.

If you have any questions about the bill, or would like to make comments, please contact me at�jtb...@council.nyc.gov�or at 212-788-9193.

�

Thank you,

�

Jeffrey Baker

Council to the Committee on Technology

New York�City Council

250 Broadway, 14th�Floor

New York,�NY�10007

212-788-9193

�





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Samuel Wong

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Jun 7, 2010, 5:48:20 PM6/7/10
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Correction: June 21, 2010 Council Chambers 10 AM

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Philip Ashlock <ph...@openplans.org> wrote:
RE:  Int. No. 29 - A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to creating open data standards.


Please be advised that the Committee on Technology will hold a hearing on Monday, June 21, 2010 at 10:00 a.m. in the 16th Floor Hearing Room, 250 Broadway, New York, NY regarding the above-referred topic.

You can view the bill online at:
http://dropbox.ashlock.us/opengov/int-29.html

Phil


Lou Klepner wrote:
Hello,

My apologies if you receive this twice. 

A revised bill is under way to mandate that NYC Government data be made available to public. I hope list members will take a moment to review and comment on this latest attempt at transparency at the city level, a draft of which can be found in the attached Word doc.

Best,
Lou

From Jeffrey Baker: 

The New York City Council Committee on Technology is considering holding a hearing on Int. No. 29 (attached) in June, which is an amended version of Int. No. 991-A from last session.  The Committee would like your feedback and suggestions for improving this bill.

The bill was drafted in order to address an issue with the prior version.  The previous version of the bill could be read to require the government to constantly monitor all computer usage and to determine whether or not any data entered would be required to be put online.  Obviously, such a requirement would be expensive and time consuming.  This version of the bill seeks to more narrowly define exactly which data sets should be made available online, and seeks to avoid any requirement by the City to periodically review the files on individual personal computers, laptops and handheld devices.  The bill accomplishes this largely by narrowly defining “data,” “data set,” and “public data set.”

Please review the bill and let us know if there is any way we could improve it.

If you know anyone else who may be interested in reviewing the bill, please feel free to forward it to them.

If you have any questions about the bill, or would like to make comments, please contact me at jtb...@council.nyc.gov or at 212-788-9193.

 

Thank you,

 

Jeffrey Baker

Council to the Committee on Technology

New York City Council

250 Broadway, 14th Floor

New York, NY 10007

212-788-9193

 





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Samuel Wong

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Jun 7, 2010, 5:54:47 PM6/7/10
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You can follow the proceeding at the Tech Committee's open data movement here: http://nycctechcomm.wordpress.com/opengov/
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