Shipping containers have some merit
galleria
the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
project
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
and I have seen footage of houses being built from shipping containers
you too could have one
http://shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/
JohnO
> I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
>
> and I have seen footage of houses being built from shipping containers
> you too could have onehttp://shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/
>
> http://www.containerarchitecture.co.nz/portfolio/index.html
Typical knee-jerk overreaction from the leftie handwringers to this
proposal. As you say, plenty of folk live in cabins made from
containers, and plenty of folk live in trailers of similar or smaller
dimensions.
There's no reason why perfectly adequate cells can't be made from
containers and they may have other logistical benefits in addition to
being half the cost of the luxurious cells such as those at
Springfield.
victor
If they can't keep Zoe Bell in, they won't be much use.
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
> projecthttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
It is appalling idea: how will the poor widdle-wee-wisoners get the
underfloor heating installed into them as Labour did in the hotels
they built for them?
Wont the steel block out the Sky-TV signals rendering useless the
flatscreen plasma TV's Labour gave them?
What about the feng-shui and the millions of dollars Labour spent on
landscaping? The use of shipping containers will require a whole new
round of consulatatios about the ergonimc ramifications of containers
vs cells, hui, consultation on the spiritual concequences of using
martime assets ("someting of Tangaroa") on land ("in Tane's sphere of
influence").
I call for a longitudinal study into the impact of shipping containers
(and particularly any salt water residue) on the rare earth worm.
Matty F
> There's no reason why perfectly adequate cells can't be made from
> containers and they may have other logistical benefits in addition to
> being half the cost of the luxurious cells such as those at
> Springfield.
A building the size of a cell could be built out of reinforced
concrete blocks for under $10,000. Add $1000 for some plumbing and
wiring.
Why should the cost per cell be around $600,000?
Geopelia
"Misanthropic Curmudgeon" <misanthropi...@breastcancermail.com>
wrote in message
news:8b3f9284-6042-40bb...@o21g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 22, 1:51 pm, galleria <wmaitland...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
>> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
>> projecthttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>
> It is appalling idea: how will the poor widdle-wee-wisoners get the
> underfloor heating installed into them as Labour did in the hotels
> they built for them?
Use a hypocaust like the Romans did. If the floor is steel it only needs to
be raised on a few bricks to let the fire minder get underneath.
And if the prisoners get too stroppy the fire could be very well stoked up!
Warwick
> On Jun 22, 2:00 pm, JohnO <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [4 quoted lines suppressed]
>
> A building the size of a cell could be built out of reinforced
> concrete blocks for under $10,000. Add $1000 for some plumbing and
> wiring.
> Why should the cost per cell be around $600,000?
Put a tender in then Matty. Quote them 15k per bed to allow for profit, and
ask them to provide the real estate. See how you get on.
JohnO
Good question.
hellicopter
Because prisoners in concrete cells can't rot their way
out. Containers rust and will have a human being breathing
moisture for 23 out of every 24 hours within the cells.
So comparisons with such containers in luxury buildings,
or by students, or as temporary cells, is not the same.
The moment the prisoner breaks the air conditioning, is
the moment the paint is rubbed off surfaces, and so is
the beginning of the prison break. And all the prisoner
has to do is breath! So the reason why containers are
selected is the same reason why they cost so much, they
will need to be replaced, they are designed to wear out
quicker than your average prison. Look at Mt Eden, still
structurally sound, why! not made out of containers!
John Cawston
If you pop into the local resthome, say one under 10 years old in
the provinces, you'll pay around $200,000 for a two bedroom unit.
You may have all sorts of communal buildings, a swimming pool and
even a hospital type arrangement.
JC
JC
Brian Dooley
Are you suggesting an additional use for container ships?
--
Brian Dooley
Wellington New Zealand
Katipo
"galleria" <wmaitl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce3450d3-dd1f-42ff...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
> project
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>
If they want to cut prison costs wouldn't it be better to turn a shipping
container into a mobile gallows?
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4177 (20090622) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
liberty
> "galleria" <wmaitland...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The Chatham Islands would be a good place for a prison.
4 to a container. 2 $9.99 sleeping bags from a warehouse sale.
Keep the cost down the low lifes can hot bed.
Sub contract delivery to Telecom . They have experience delivering
containers.
A _L_ P
I hope not. It's totally unacceptable to dump containers at sea because
they can float for a long time and a long way and pose a serious risk to
innocent people at sea for legitimate porpoises.
A L P
Greg
wrote:
So you think that the solution is to stop them breathing?
Geopelia
"Katipo" <h.lau...@eggstra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:h1nm5c$frp$1...@aioe.org...
>
> "galleria" <wmaitl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ce3450d3-dd1f-42ff...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
>> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
>> project
>> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>>
>
> If they want to cut prison costs wouldn't it be better to turn a shipping
> container into a mobile gallows?
Lift it up by crane, herd the prisoners underneath ..................
thingy
>
> > There's no reason why perfectly adequate cells can't be made from
> > containers and they may have other logistical benefits in addition to
> > being half the cost of the luxurious cells such as those at
> > Springfield.
> A building the size of a cell could be built out of reinforced
> concrete blocks for under $10,000. Add $1000 for some plumbing and
> wiring.
> Why should the cost per cell be around $600,000?
Like duh....all the bits that go with it....like somewhere to eat,
wash, outer walls, guard areas....so total cost / number of cells...
Plumbing isnt just the cell bit....the cell plumbing then has to
connect to bigger pipes and eventually the mains....or some treatment
plant...
When you look at a container all you are really saving is the
immediate structure, though old ones mean you are re-cycling, (but
they can be well bashed and rusty so may have a limited life) You can
buy a second hand container for about $2k retail...so there's 8k
saving not even at wholesale prices...but......It still has to be
insulated, plumbed, lighted, proper doors......you also still need a
reinforced concrete slab to put them on, all the plumbing, staircases,
power, security systems, outer walls, food hall etc etc.
regards
thingy
No, an ignorant question....
regards
Thing
thingy
200k? ouch....and I assume there are monthly costs on top of that?
Im glad someone else can see the add ons.....I missed the infirmary
bit as well...library...some education space....also there is usually
a van to take groups to the shops....though I guess prisons dont have
that...
;]
regards
thing
thingy
Why not....a ready made structure to put the containers in! old ships
must be cheap.....sail it out say 5 ~20 miles...
If it sinks, well given the attitude of some in here I think it would
be good riddence thought on their part.....as the saying goes there is
no humanity in fundimentalists/extremists (paraphrasing a bit I
think).
regards
Thing
John Cawston
> On Jun 22, 8:04 pm, John Cawston <rewar...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>> JohnO wrote:
>>> On Jun 22, 3:30 pm, Matty F <mattyf9...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> On Jun 22, 2:00 pm, JohnO <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> There's no reason why perfectly adequate cells can't be made from
>>>>> containers and they may have other logistical benefits in addition to
>>>>> being half the cost of the luxurious cells such as those at
>>>>> Springfield.
>>>> A building the size of a cell could be built out of reinforced
>>>> concrete blocks for under $10,000. Add $1000 for some plumbing and
>>>> wiring.
>>>> Why should the cost per cell be around $600,000?
>>> Good question.
>> If you pop into the local resthome, say one under 10 years old in
>> the provinces, you'll pay around $200,000 for a two bedroom unit.
>> You may have all sorts of communal buildings, a swimming pool and
>> even a hospital type arrangement.
>>
>> JC
>>
>> JC
>
> 200k? ouch....and I assume there are monthly costs on top of that?
$200-280 per month. That looks after the grounds and surrounds,
rubbish etc. Also covers free nurse support for accidents at
night etc and nurse supervised medication for the forgetful.
>
> Im glad someone else can see the add ons.....I missed the infirmary
> bit as well...library...some education space....also there is usually
> a van to take groups to the shops....though I guess prisons dont have
> that...
None of which remotely comes to $600,000 per unit.. or even
$300,000 for containers.
The other thing, myself and thousands of other Kiwi have lived in
2x4 accommodation for years in the forestry and MoW camps ..
usually in the most bitter cold places like the Central Nth
Island and many parts of the Sth Island. No insulation, shared
ablutions and maybe a small common room if you were lucky. Groups
of 30 to 100 of these huts, the grounds and surrounds were
maintained usually by one retired man (camp sergeants).
In short, container prisons are not inhumane, well within the
cultural norms of this country's recent past and likely more
salubrious than a concrete and iron environment.
JC
>
> ;]
>
> regards
>
> thing
>
>
victor
Suckered by the moonwalking bear.
> http://publicaddress.net/default,6004.sm#post6004
galleria
According to the doco, how the other half lives - Mark Ellis
the chathams are very expensive to buy food on
so they'd have to grow their own food and go pig hunting
which would probably be a good thing
Geopelia
"thingy" <news2...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:95b1ac7a-a7b1-4c38...@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
regards
Thing
------------------------------
Britain used to put prisoners in old sailing ships moored in various places.
Google prison hulks.
peterwn
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
>
> and I have seen footage of houses being built from shipping containers
> you too could have onehttp://shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/
>
> http://www.containerarchitecture.co.nz/portfolio/index.html
Actually, there is another idea. There is an excessive tonnage of
shipping at the moment. Why not charter a few ships, tie them up at
spare wharves and use them for extra prison accommodation. In the old
days they were called prison hulks.
Also in the old days there was very little need for jails in places
like Genoa, Italy - the prisoners were used to row the galleys that
plied the Mediterranean Sea.
victor
I love the way reality flies out the window when hang em and flog em
enthusiasts start frothing at the mouth.
A _L_ P
Get the refrigeration ones. Already insulated and the rust is confined
to the bands around the corners. Ventilated, 2 round holes in one end
with covers that can be adjusted to adjust ventilation. NEVER attempt
to cut them yourself unless you know with 110% certainty what the
insulation is. Some is highly inflammable and heat can ignite it,
resulting in a gigantic kapowee-boom oh dear the container's fucked
wherever it is now. Getting them cut properly for doors & windows isn't
expensive. Very comfortable being both insulated and ventilated.
Outer walls and food hall already probably on site, or would have to be
provided no matter what kind of "bedrooms" were being built.
A L P
A _L_ P
I think it's called being an educated person with some knowledge of
history. Ship accommodation doesn't have to be unpleasant - people pay
a fortune to travel on them. Prison accommodation in the old days was
vile by today's standards, but so was the normal housing of the poor
compared with what is regarded as bottom-grade living conditions today.
Get a grip. Study a weeny teeny bit of history and get a sense of
perspective why dontcha.
By the way the remark about galley slaves wasn't really a recommendation
for *today* was it - make a yes or no guess on that one if you didn't
spot it straight away. Again, it's h-i-s-t-o-r-y, an interesting (for
those of us who can appreciate such asides added to the the main
discussion) little detail about how they did things in the past.
A L P
Pooh
"Greg" <Gre...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vlsu35h3p860lj4q7...@4ax.com...
He doesn't realise that it takes a bit more than rubbing paint off and
breathing heavily to rust out a container.
Pooh
hellicopter
No, the solution is to buy share in the firm producing
containers prisons because they are going to make a bundle
of cash. Or better still just build breeze-block cells,
I mean how hard is that! But better still, why not just
make it less hard for poor people to get ahead and not
be forced by circumstances into criminality.
Katipo
"Geopelia" <phil...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:h1nt92$l86$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Inspirational!
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________
Katipo
>>
>> The Chatham Islands would be a good place for a prison.
>> 4 to a container. 2 $9.99 sleeping bags from a warehouse sale.
>> Keep the cost down the low lifes can hot bed.
>> Sub contract delivery to Telecom . They have experience delivering
>> containers.
>
> According to the doco, how the other half lives - Mark Ellis
> the chathams are very expensive to buy food on
> so they'd have to grow their own food and go pig hunting
> which would probably be a good thing
>
How much does bread and water cost out there?
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________
Misanthropic Curmudgeon
> Matty F wrote:
> > On Jun 22, 2:00 pm, JohnO <johno1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> There's no reason why perfectly adequate cells can't be made from
> >> containers and they may have other logistical benefits in addition to
> >> being half the cost of the luxurious cells such as those at
> >> Springfield.
>
> > A building the size of a cell could be built out of reinforced
> > concrete blocks for under $10,000. Add $1000 for some plumbing and
> > wiring.
> > Why should the cost per cell be around $600,000?
>
> Because prisoners in concrete cells can't rot
> their way out. Containers rust and will have
> a human being breathing moisture for 23 out
> of every 24 hours within the cells.
A sane person with a functioning brain (which rules hellicopter out)
would note that a martime environment is far more hostile to a steel
shipping container than one persons breath - yes, even your breath,
hellicopter.
If a container can handle n-years at sea, then it could probably
handle 50n years housing a prisoner.
JohnO
Good grief. Containers last years sitting on ships going around the
world being doused with salt water. And you think a prisoner could
cause them to rust away?
Don't be ridiculous!
Brian Dooley
>On Jun 22, 1:51�pm, galleria <wmaitland...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
>> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
>> projecthttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>>
>> and I have seen footage of houses being built from shipping containers
>> you too could have onehttp://shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/
>>
>> http://www.containerarchitecture.co.nz/portfolio/index.html
>
>Actually, there is another idea. There is an excessive tonnage of
>shipping at the moment. Why not charter a few ships, tie them up at
>spare wharves and use them for extra prison accommodation. In the old
>days they were called prison hulks.
>
I was thinking more of giving them a Grand Tour.
>Also in the old days there was very little need for jails in places
>like Genoa, Italy - the prisoners were used to row the galleys that
>plied the Mediterranean Sea.
And France, and Spain, and Turkey. And going back a bit further,
Rome and Byzantium.
Almost anywhere except Athens, which used them but set them free.
Brian Dooley
I wasn't thinking of dumping them at sea.
Warwick
> On Jun 22, 7:23 pm, hellicopter <stonesn...@kol.co.nz> wrote:
>> [17 quoted lines suppressed]
>
> A sane person with a functioning brain (which rules hellicopter out)
> would note that a martime environment is far more hostile to a steel
> shipping container than one persons breath - yes, even your breath,
> hellicopter.
>
> If a container can handle n-years at sea, then it could probably
> handle 50n years housing a prisoner.
Might be n/50. Its not the external environment you have to worry about.
Its the inmates corroding it from the inside that presents a problem. Did
you see the Shawshank Redemption?
--
cheers
Pooh
"peterwn" <pet...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:d541e7d8-34da-4a1d...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
______________________________
Now theres an idea. We solve two problems in with one solution. No more
overcrowded prisons and save fuel for the shipping companies:)
Pooh
hellicopter
Its like Nationals shredding public services from the top.
Flexibility is key to saving money but when the top heads
know it all, they can't ask for experts to come alone and
work out a detail program. Especially when they would argue
for incentive driven solutions which require the removal
of top down bossy types (and their grandstanding ministers).
Whether prisons or public service, hell even private
businesses, you want results then provide incentives.
e.g to get train drivers to monitor their own fuel
usage and reward them, that means providing information
and measuring results (something that MPs don't have time
for! they have an election in three years damn it).
National are not in the business of government, they are
in the business of stuffing government.
Containers have come up before, someone must have a lot
of them to sell off, given the shipping down turn and
all, so of course once they sign
up there will be a huge costly get out clause and the
price of containers will rocked back as shrinking supply
hits global growth (sometime when Key is no longer PM).
Warwick
It was a very stupid idea. You wouldn't demolish the old prisons
and then contemplate using containers. Chicks are frequently
naive when it comes to construction. But every political party
should have a token woman or two in the ranks. Just don't put
them in charge is the lesson recent history has taught us all.
--
cheers
Katipo
"peterwn" <pet...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:d541e7d8-34da-4a1d...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> I think the prison shipping container idea does have some merit
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
> projecthttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>
> and I have seen footage of houses being built from shipping containers
> you too could have onehttp://shippingcontainerhousedesign.com/
>
> http://www.containerarchitecture.co.nz/portfolio/index.html
>Actually, there is another idea. There is an excessive tonnage of
>shipping at the moment. Why not charter a few ships, tie them up at
>spare wharves and use them for extra prison accommodation. In the old
>days they were called prison hulks.
The poms used to have a penal colony about 1400 miles west of New Zealand.
If they could be persuaded to reopen it our problems would be solved.
Geopelia
"Brian Dooley" <bri...@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:t7k045dovs5gcgp4b...@4ax.com...
The "Wooden Walls" of Athens!
Matty F
> The poms used to have a penal colony about 1400 miles west of New Zealand.
> If they could be persuaded to reopen it our problems would be solved.
It's never been closed, but the guards are somewhat lax.
Katipo
"galleria" <wmaitl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce3450d3-dd1f-42ff...@v23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> the prisoners could certainly learn some skills while working on the
> project
> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10579996
>
Those container cells on the news tonight looked quite cosy. If I was stupid
enough to get myself thrown in jail I'd be happy to do my time in one, if I
had it to myself.