215th St. terminal?
Peter T. Daniels
as well have been called "Golddiggers of 1934"). Dick Powell and Ruby
Keeler fall asleep in a subway car (looking an awful lot like an all-
white version of an IND car), they dream the "I only have eyes for
you" number (scarily featuring dozens of Ruby Keelers), and they wake
up at "215th St. End of the Line." They leave the train and are in a
sort of railroad yard with lots of parallel tracks.
The A train had already opened from Chambers to 207th early in 1932
(according to R. A. Hall's listing), but I wonder whether it was ever
planned to extend passenger service into the yard, the way the 148th
St. station was added to the 3 not so many years ago?
alias
station.
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:aeb81c09-97bd-4a96...@t33g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Peter T. Daniels
> "PeterT.Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in messagenews:aeb81c09-97bd-4a96...@t33g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> > In *Dames* (which someone in the accompanying documentaries said might
> > as well have been called "Golddiggers of 1934"). Dick Powell and Ruby
> > Keeler fall asleep in a subway car (looking an awful lot like an all-
> > white version of an IND car), they dream the "I only have eyes for
> > you" number (scarily featuring dozens of Ruby Keelers), and they wake
> > up at "215th St. End of the Line." They leave the train and are in a
> > sort of railroad yard with lots of parallel tracks.
>
> > The A train had already opened from Chambers to 207th early in 1932
> > (according to R. A. Hall's listing), but I wonder whether it was ever
> > planned to extend passenger service into the yard, the way the 148th
> > St. station was added to the 3 not so many years ago?-
On Jul 9, 11:36 pm, "alias" <al...@hiddennow.com> wrote:
> Impossible. The yard entrance leads start at the 200 St (Dykman St)
> station.
So the tracks beyond 207th St. go absolutely nowhere?
Joseph D. Korman
the station. I believe that I've seen a planning map showing on
additional station north of 207th.
The tracks at 205th are only used to relay the trains. There were plans
to extend that line to Gun Hill Road, perhaps via Burke Ave. There was
a track diagram published by the ERA in 2004.
--
-------------------------------------------------
| Joseph D. Korman |
| mailto:re...@thejoekorner.com |
| Visit The JoeKorNer at |
| http://www.thejoekorner.com |
|-------------------------------------------------|
| The light at the end of the tunnel ... |
| may be a train going the other way! |
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Peter T. Daniels
The wikipedia article on the station says
"There is a single island platform between the two tracks, which are
designated as Tracks A3, and A4, which end just north of the platform
at Chaining Station 1541+00."
So are the wall and the bumpers fairly recent additions?
There are hundreds of photos "of the station" at nyc.subways.org --
and exactly one of them shows the wall. They're just pictures of A
trains.
Why would a movie art director have invented "215th St. End of Line"
out of absolutely nothing, if it weren't planned to extend the A?
NB I received two emails which included indications that they were
supposed to be posted to the ng as well. If "Julius" and "Gerald Levy"
will send their messages here, I might respond.
Fiel...@verizon.net
> On Jul 10, 1:38�pm, "Joseph D. Korman" <joe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> > [top-posting corrected]
>>
>> >> "PeterT.Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
>> >> messagenews:aeb81c09
> -97bd-4a96-afd...@t33g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >>> In *Dames* (which someone in the accompanying documentaries said
>> >>> migh
> t
>> >>> as well have been called "Golddiggers of 1934"). Dick Powell and
>> >>> Ruby Keeler fall asleep in a subway car (looking an awful lot
>> >>> like an all- white version of an IND car), they dream the "I only
>> >>> have eyes for you" number (scarily featuring dozens of Ruby
>> >>> Keelers), and they wake up at "215th St. End of the Line." They
>> >>> leave the train and are in a sort of railroad yard with lots of
>> >>> parallel tracks.
>>
>> >>> The A train had already opened from Chambers to 207th early in
>> >>> 1932 (according to R. A. Hall's listing), but I wonder whether it
>> >>> was ever planned to extend passenger service into the yard, the
>> >>> way the 148th St. station was added to the 3 not so many years
>> >>> ago?-
>>
Pete.
Sometimes Hollywood will stretch the truth, and subscribe to what is not
real world. Especially to train buff's.
Regarding extending passenger service into the 207th Street yard, have you
ever been up there to see that location?
The 207th Street yard ends at about W215th Street between Tenth Avenue, and
the Harlem River, adjacent to a sanitation garage facility. The 215th
Street Inwood area is already served by IRT #1 Broadway line elevated
station located at 215th Street & Tenth Avenue, next to the IND yard.
The terminal at 148 Street went in during the 1967-68 time frame, and just
after a public housing project was completed on top of a platform that
spans the IRT 148 Street yard. By about that time, all IRT heavy
maintenance had been transferred to either the 207th or Coney Island yard
on the B Division, Thus also minimizing impact to road train service in and
out of 148 Street due to subway car maintenance moves, and yard switching.
Bill
Gerald Levy
During the 1960's, there were a number of proposals to build a deck over the
207th St. yard to serve as a platform for a moderate-income housing
development or marina. Interestingly, although there is a sanitation garage
at the north end of the yard, there used to be a huge salt-water swimming
pool at the south end that gave way to a Pathmark supermarket in the late
1960's. To my knowledge, 207th St. is the only B Division yard in the
system that also has a direct link to the A Division via a ramp from the
adjacent No. 1 line elevated structure.
Gerald
<Fiel...@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9C44BB3C98869F...@216.196.97.131...
Joseph D. Korman
Top posting corrected:
> <Fiel...@Verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C44BB3C98869F...@216.196.97.131...
>
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in
>> news:fa512858-d31b-4cc3...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>> Pete.
>>
>> Sometimes Hollywood will stretch the truth, and subscribe to what is not
>> real world. Especially to train buff's.
>>
>> Regarding extending passenger service into the 207th Street yard, have you
>> ever been up there to see that location?
>>
>> The 207th Street yard ends at about W215th Street between Tenth Avenue,
>> and
>> the Harlem River, adjacent to a sanitation garage facility. The 215th
>> Street Inwood area is already served by IRT #1 Broadway line elevated
>> station located at 215th Street & Tenth Avenue, next to the IND yard.
>>
>> The terminal at 148 Street went in during the 1967-68 time frame, and just
>> after a public housing project was completed on top of a platform that
>> spans the IRT 148 Street yard. By about that time, all IRT heavy
>> maintenance had been transferred to either the 207th or Coney Island yard
>> on the B Division, Thus also minimizing impact to road train service in
>> and
>> out of 148 Street due to subway car maintenance moves, and yard switching.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> During the 1960's, there were a number of proposals to build a deck over the
>> 207th St. yard to serve as a platform for a moderate-income housing
>> development or marina. Interestingly, although there is a sanitation garage
>> at the north end of the yard, there used to be a huge salt-water swimming
>> pool at the south end that gave way to a Pathmark supermarket in the late
>> 1960's. To my knowledge, 207th St. is the only B Division yard in the
>> system that also has a direct link to the A Division via a ramp from the
>> adjacent No. 1 line elevated structure.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>>
No, the connection to the #1 was the second between the IRT and the IND
through a yard. As mentioned a paragraph up, when the TA closed the
IRT 148th St shop, all major work on IRT cars were moved to either 207th
or Coney Island. In order to get the IRT cars to the IND, a ramp was
built between the #4 Jerome line and the Concourse Yard. It's separate
from the Mosholu Yard.
A point of trivia: prior to the 1967 Chrystie St connection, the #7
cars had to travel from Queensboro Plaza to Coney Island then via the
Culver (the D line at the time) to the Concourse line to get the IRT
mainline.
Many such transfers were done leading up to the 1964 World's Fair while
the R-33 and R-36 cars were delivered and the older cars transfered to
the mainline. After Chrystie Street opened, the trip could be cut short
at Pacific St and via the Manhattan Bridge to the 6th Ave line. The #7
cars are main shopped at CI.
Peter T. Daniels
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote innews:fa512858-d31b-4cc3...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 10, 1:38 pm, "Joseph D. Korman" <joe...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >> > [top-posting corrected]
>
> >> >> "PeterT.Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in
> >> >> messagenews:aeb81c09
>
> >> >>> In *Dames* (which someone in the accompanying documentaries said
> >> >>> migh
> > t
> >> >>> as well have been called "Golddiggers of 1934"). Dick Powell and
> >> >>> Ruby Keeler fall asleep in a subway car (looking an awful lot
> >> >>> like an all- white version of an IND car), they dream the "I only
> >> >>> have eyes for you" number (scarily featuring dozens of Ruby
> >> >>> Keelers), and they wake up at "215th St. End of the Line." They
> >> >>> leave the train and are in a sort of railroad yard with lots of
> >> >>> parallel tracks.
>
> >> >>> The A train had already opened from Chambers to 207th early in
> >> >>> 1932 (according to R. A. Hall's listing), but I wonder whether it
> >> >>> was ever planned to extend passenger service into the yard, the
> >> >>> way the 148th St. station was added to the 3 not so many years
> >> >>> ago?-
>
> Pete.
I don't know who Pete is
> Sometimes Hollywood will stretch the truth, and subscribe to what is not
> real world. Especially to train buff's.
>
> Regarding extending passenger service into the 207th Street yard, have you
> ever been up there to see that location?
Of course. I passed it on the Broadway Local almost every day for
about 20 years.
> The 207th Street yard ends at about W215th Street between Tenth Avenue, and
> the Harlem River, adjacent to a sanitation garage facility. The 215th
The subway yard was probably there long before the sanitation garage.
The neighborhood was virtually empty before the subway came in 1904-5.
In those days, they built the subways in order to stimulate
development in the outlying areas.
> Street Inwood area is already served by IRT #1 Broadway line elevated
> station located at 215th Street & Tenth Avenue, next to the IND yard.
So? Western Midtown was already served by the Seventh Avenue and
Broadway subways, and the Sixth and Ninth Avenue els. Why did it need
Sixth and Eighth Avenue subways?
Peter T. Daniels
> During the 1960's, there were a number of proposals to build a deck over the
> 207th St. yard to serve as a platform for a moderate-income housing
> development or marina. Interestingly, although there is a sanitation garage
> at the north end of the yard, there used to be a huge salt-water swimming
> pool at the south end that gave way to a Pathmark supermarket in the late
> 1960's. To my knowledge, 207th St. is the only B Division yard in the
> system that also has a direct link to the A Division via a ramp from the
> adjacent No. 1 line elevated structure.
That sort of housing was built -- by a _very_ major architect, Paul
Rudolph -- over the Jerome Ave. yards that serve both the Concourse
line and the Jerome Ave. line. It's called Tracey Towers.
I did not know of a pool on the Pathmark site (I suppose that might
account for the awkward auto access). When I was very little, we
occasionally went to the kiddie amusement park that I think was on the
site of the Loehman's quonset hut on the east side of Broadway along
the tracks.
Maybe twice, we went to the Highbridge Pool, which was one of Robert
Moses's famous pools, in the lower 170's off Amsterdam Ave.
Joseph D. Korman
Jerome line. the Concourse yard is still open air.
Here's the Google Earth:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Yankee+Stadium,+New+York,+NY&sll=40.556038,-74.165934&sspn=0.010369,0.016136&ie=UTF8&ll=40.875817,-73.889236&spn=0.010319,0.016136&t=h&z=16
The building is north of 205th and Concourse Yard is visible below it.
Joseph D. Korman
IRT was extended from 157th to 215th in 1906. It didn't reach 242nd
until 1908.
J.R.Guthrie
known to become certain stations in NYC <g>. And there are movies where
arrival by train in NYC is an outdoor station with palm trees nearby.
That said, the plans for the IND beyond 207th Street involved connecting to
the (no #1) and "recapturing" the line to Van Cortlandt. There are maps
which show this back in the 1920s. I think I have a Hagstrom or Geographia
that actually shows the IND continuing north and joining the IRT.
Over the years, I've sent some of these great map oddities to Joe Korman
including scans of Hagstrom or Geographia maps showing (1) the IND
continuing past 205th toward Burke Avenue, (2) the IND continuing east from
Euclid (including the elusive secret station <g> and (3) a Hagstrom showing
the A/C/G Fulton line connecting to the BMT at DeKalb Avenue.
I'm helping on two other research projects at the moment (one involving the
Lehigh and Hudson River Railway and the other regarding the Mutual
Broadcasting System) so at some point, I'll dig the IND beyond 207th Street
map out if anyone is interested.
Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
Fiel...@verizon.net
> On Jul 10, 6:24�pm, Field....@Verizon.net wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote
>> innews:fa512858-d31b-4cc
> 3-89d1-2f...@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
Peter Daniels: Pete, is you!!! Or are you addressed by some other name?
I can assure you that the sanitation garage does not predate any of the
subway dates you make mention of. The structute is definitely post WW II
construction, if not a 1960/70's build. I worked across the street from
the location in question, 5030 Broadway, until late 2006 and know it
quite well.
Comparing the IND trunk line additions to the existing IRT systems is a
poor comparison when contrasting the transportation needs of Mid-town and
the Inwood sections of Manhattan.
Bill
Peter T. Daniels
> Hollywood takes liberties -- just as certain stations in Torinto have been
> known to become certain stations in NYC <g>. And there are movies where
> arrival by train in NYC is an outdoor station with palm trees nearby.
In *Wayne's World*, set in Auirora, illinois (suburban Chicago), the
boys drive down a boulevard lined with palm trees.
In *Spiderman 3*, el scenes ostensibly taking place in Manhattan were
filmed on _recognizable_ portions of the Chicago "L" on Wells St.
> That said, the plans for the IND beyond 207th Street involved connecting to
> the (no #1) and "recapturing" the line to Van Cortlandt. There are maps
> which show this back in the 1920s. I think I have a Hagstrom or Geographia
> that actually shows the IND continuing north and joining the IRT.
In other words, the art director actually knew what he was doing.
Fiel...@verizon.net
news:_8ydnQj0HM5fPsXX...@earthlink.com:
I recall that there was an attempt to build a platform to cover the
Concourse yard in the late 1960's, and early 1970's. Similar to IRT 148
Street, IND Pitkin, and the IRT Jerome Avenue yard near Moshulu Parkway.
A few concete support pillars did go in, but work was stopped, and
eventually abandoned. One reason I heard was that construction of the
platform, and eventually a housing project, was interfering with yard
operations at Concourse. I know of an individual that worked at the
Concourse about that time so to inquire about the particulars.
I recall the ground breaking ceremony at Tracey Towers in 1969. The event
is in my HS yearbook. Attendees included then Mayor JV Lindsay, with my HS
band providing music for the event. My High School is directly across the
street from the IRT Jerome yard bordering Paul Avenue.
Bill
danny burstein
>I recall that there was an attempt to build a platform to cover the
>Concourse yard in the late 1960's, and early 1970's. Similar to IRT 148
>Street, IND Pitkin, and the IRT Jerome Avenue yard near Moshulu Parkway.
>A few concete support pillars did go in, but work was stopped, and
>eventually abandoned. One reason I heard was that construction of the
>platform, and eventually a housing project, was interfering with yard
>operations at Concourse. I know of an individual that worked at the
>Concourse about that time so to inquire about the particulars.
IIRC that issue was used in a campaign advert by prospective NYC
Comptroller Harrison Goldin. He stood in the rail yard, talked
about the plan, and then said something like "with the beems
in place, the trains couldn't run". (The point was to show
how stupid many of hte other people and programs in politics
were, and that he wouldn't be so dumb).
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Michael Wares
> I did not know of a pool on the Pathmark site (I suppose that might
> account for the awkward auto access).
Miramar. I remember it well. See
http://myinwood.net/miramar-saltwater-pool/
Michael Wares
Peter T. Daniels
The "world's largest outdoor saltwater swimming pool" was at Palisades
Amusement Park.
We would go down to 168th St.on the A train to get the Jersey bus at
the 165th St. bus "station" (a bunch of slots on the street) (before
the Bridge bus terminal was built).
Peter T. Daniels
> "J.R.Guthrie" <jguth...@pipeline.com> wrote innews:_8ydnQj0HM5fPsXX...@earthlink.com:
Sounds like Bronx Science ... rather than DeWitt Clinton. Did they
beat you up regularly, or only on special occasions? (My mother went
to Walton, a few long blocks to the south.)
Gerald Levy
The salt water pool in Palisades Amusement Park was advertised as the
world's largest for years, but as a kid, I remember Miramar also laying
claim to that distinction. Miramar was probably the worl's largest when it
first opened in the 1920's, and was then eclipsed by Palisades a few years
later. In actuality, by the 1950's, , neither was probably the world's
largest outdoor salt water pool. The owner of the defunct Shorehaven Beach
Club in the Bronx often boasted that his private facility's salt water pool
was the world's largest, and it did, in fact, seem to be larger than either
Miramar or Palisades. But only Palisades had a wave machine. I also fondly
recall hopping the Public Service Coordinated Transport bus at the old
Rockland Bus Depot on 168th St for the short ride to Palisades. . Remember
their famous slogan? "Public Service sure is great. It takes you right up
to the gate".
Gerald
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:70de248d-56a4-4806...@j12g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Peter T. Daniels
> The salt water pool in Palisades Amusement Park was advertised as the
> world's largest for years, but as a kid, I remember Miramar also laying
> claim to that distinction. Miramar was probably the worl's largest when it
> first opened in the 1920's, and was then eclipsed by Palisades a few years
> later. In actuality, by the 1950's, , neither was probably the world's
> largest outdoor salt water pool. The owner of the defunct Shorehaven Beach
> Club in the Bronx often boasted that his private facility's salt water pool
> was the world's largest, and it did, in fact, seem to be larger than either
> Miramar or Palisades. But only Palisades had a wave machine. I also fondly
> recall hopping the Public Service Coordinated Transport bus at the old
> Rockland Bus Depot on 168th St for the short ride to Palisades. . Remember
> their famous slogan? "Public Service sure is great. It takes you right up
> to the gate".
Nope. I r4member the Palisades Amusement Park song, of course.
What's with this "outdoor," anyway? Is there some "indoor salt-water
pool" that was the unchallenged world's largest throughout the 20th
century?
What's with the "salt-water"? Are larger fresh-water pools a dime a
dozen?
The only indoor fresh-water pool I experienced that might have been in
that ballpark was Moses's Highbridge Pool, and the one or two visits
well over 50 years ago have left very little impression.
The exhibit on Moses's pools that was at the Queens Museum didn't make
claims about world's largestness, and the photos and films didn't
suggest they were bigger than Palisades.
Phil Kane
<gram...@verizon.net> wrote:
>What's with this "outdoor," anyway? Is there some "indoor salt-water
>pool" that was the unchallenged world's largest throughout the 20th
>century?
The Fleishhacker Pool in SF, fed by sea water, laid claim to the
largest swimming pool in the United States (per
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleishhacker_Pool )
It is long since gone, and the area is now the site of a parking lot
for the adjacent San Francisco Zoo.
--
"Stand Clear of the Closing Doors, Please"
Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District
Peter T. Daniels
> known to become certain stations in NYC <g>. And there are movies where
> arrival by train in NYC is an outdoor station with palm trees nearby.
>
> That said, the plans for the IND beyond 207th Street involved connecting to
> the (no #1) and "recapturing" the line to Van Cortlandt. There are maps
> which show this back in the 1920s. I think I have a Hagstrom or Geographia
> that actually shows the IND continuing north and joining the IRT.
Wait a minute ... is it physically possible to climb from two stories
underground to two stories aboveground in the short space between
207th & Bway and 215th & Tenth? Or would it continue up Broadway and
join just before the bridge? What would happen to the IRT trains that
couldn't use the station platforms after the junction?
Bolwerk
Is there some geological reason why the A Train couldn't extend
underneath the Harlem River Ship Canal and continue underground through
The Bronx?
Peter T. Daniels
(a) How would that be "connecting" to the Broadway local?
(b) Again, how would it make the grade in the short distance
available? It's cut 'n' cover, and the Harlem River Ship Canal is very
deep, and the terrain around it is very swampy (see Mannahatta, the
book and Museum of the City of New York exhibit).
J.R.Guthrie
>Wait a minute ... is it physically possible to climb from two stories
>underground to two stories aboveground in the short space between
>207th & Bway and 215th & Tenth? Or would it continue up Broadway and
Why not? Ever ride the N or W out of the 60th Street Tunnel to Queensboro
Plaza? Or the F (and now the G) from Smith 9th? or at Church Ave? Or the IRT
out on to the White Plains Road line? There are lots of places where the
subway goes from below ground to an elevated structure in a short distance,
>join just before the bridge? What would happen to the IRT trains that
>couldn't use the station platforms after the junction?
The line would have been "recaptured" - i.e. there would be no IRT service
anymore. Just like IRT trains would no longer run to Astoria (or, for that
matter, BMT trains to Coney Island via the recaptured Culver).
Cheers,
Jim Guthrie
Peter T. Daniels
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
> >Wait a minute ... is it physically possible to climb from two stories
> >underground to two stories aboveground in the short space between
> >207th & Bway and 215th & Tenth? Or would it continue up Broadway and
>
> Why not? Ever ride the N or W out of the 60th Street Tunnel to Queensboro
> Plaza? Or the F (and now the G) from Smith 9th? or at Church Ave? Or the IRT
> out on to the White Plains Road line? There are lots of places where the
> subway goes from below ground to an elevated structure in a short distance,
I'd like to see the trigonometry of it ...
> >join just before the bridge? What would happen to the IRT trains that
> >couldn't use the station platforms after the junction?
>
> The line would have been "recaptured" - i.e. there would be no IRT service
> anymore. Just like IRT trains would no longer run to Astoria (or, for that
> matter, BMT trains to Coney Island via the recaptured Culver).
So you're envisioning a Queensboro Plaza-style tangent-but-not-merging
set of tracks? and the Broadway Local just turns around at 215th?
There's no room for all the extra structure you'd need!
Bolwerk
> On Jul 13, 11:23 pm, Bolwerk <bolw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Jul 11, 10:36 am, "J.R.Guthrie" <jguth...@pipeline.com> wrote:
>>>> Hollywood takes liberties -- just as certain stations in Torinto have been
>>>> known to become certain stations in NYC <g>. And there are movies where
>>>> arrival by train in NYC is an outdoor station with palm trees nearby.
>>>> That said, the plans for the IND beyond 207th Street involved connecting to
>>>> the (no #1) and "recapturing" the line to Van Cortlandt. There are maps
>>>> which show this back in the 1920s. I think I have a Hagstrom or Geographia
>>>> that actually shows the IND continuing north and joining the IRT.
>>> Wait a minute ... is it physically possible to climb from two stories
>>> underground to two stories aboveground in the short space between
>>> 207th & Bway and 215th & Tenth? Or would it continue up Broadway and
>>> join just before the bridge? What would happen to the IRT trains that
>>> couldn't use the station platforms after the junction?
>> Is there some geological reason why the A Train couldn't extend
>> underneath the Harlem River Ship Canal and continue underground through
>> The Bronx?-
>
> (a) How would that be "connecting" to the Broadway local?
I wasn't suggesting that. It just looks like the original IND planners
never intended a Bronx extension of 8th Ave. to even be a possibility.
> (b) Again, how would it make the grade in the short distance
> available? It's cut 'n' cover, and the Harlem River Ship Canal is very
> deep, and the terrain around it is very swampy (see Mannahatta, the
> book and Museum of the City of New York exhibit).
I don't know how deep it is at 207th street, or how much distance it
would have/need to make the descent.
However, tunnel technology has matured a lot since the 1930s, and
immersed structures are pretty common, even tethered to the riverbed and
floating perhaps.
The MTA even has experience with immersed structures -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/63rd_Street_Tunnel
danny burstein
>The MTA even has experience with immersed structures -
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/63rd_Street_Tunnel
As does the Hudson and Manhattan Tubes Railroad. The southern
Manhattan tunnel was fully flooded after 11-Sept, and they
had to build barrier walls/plugs on the Jersey side.
Peter T. Daniels
There's a mezzanine between surface and platform level.
> However, tunnel technology has matured a lot since the 1930s, and
> immersed structures are pretty common, even tethered to the riverbed and
> floating perhaps.
>
> The MTA even has experience with immersed structures -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/63rd_Street_Tunnel-
It's a Ship Canal because ships have to use it -- you can't rest a
tunnel that would be 15-20 ft. high on the canalbed.
Jimmy
> As does the Hudson and Manhattan Tubes Railroad. The southern
> Manhattan tunnel was fully flooded after 11-Sept, and they
> had to build barrier walls/plugs on the Jersey side.
Really? I thought the plugs were just a precaution in case the WTC
bathtub failed, which fortunately didn't happen.
Jimmy
Peter T. Daniels
The PATH WTC station ws closed for several months at least, but that
was when I lived in the Bronx and so was unaware of PATH. They had to
build access to the station before it could be used again.
Bolwerk
I actually never went to that station. I may have turned around in it,
but I never left the system from it.
But, depending on the distance from the canal (which would depend on the
route), that could be deep enough.
>> However, tunnel technology has matured a lot since the 1930s, and
>> immersed structures are pretty common, even tethered to the riverbed and
>> floating perhaps.
>>
>> The MTA even has experience with immersed structures -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/63rd_Street_Tunnel-
>
> It's a Ship Canal because ships have to use it -- you can't rest a
> tunnel that would be 15-20 ft. high on the canalbed.
That depends how deep it is, and the draft of the crafts that presently
use it. I seriously doubt it's used the way it was in the early 20th
century.
Peter T. Daniels
The biggest boat I ever saw go through was the Circle Line.
In the 60s, the Broadway Bridge was raised quite frequently (which was
nice, because my station was 225th), but after I came back in 1997, I
never saw it go up once.
danny burstein
>In the 60s, the Broadway Bridge was raised quite frequently (which was
>nice, because my station was 225th), but after I came back in 1997, I
>never saw it go up once.
A friend of mine lived in site of the bridge and would
eagerly call me up whenever he saw it getting raised.
I even got up there in time a couple of years ago as
they lifted it to....
ob nyc.transit
... lifted it to let the barge with the Redbird cars on
it sail over to the Hudson.