Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

[David Pye]

Hi all,

I've split this off the thread because there are a couple of technical issues to discuss.

Mopstly relate specifically to the motor choice.

A further issue I noticed when looking over the mill is that it is graduated in IMPERIAL measurements.  I am guessing it might have originated in the USA, based on the fact that it is badged MSC.  I wonder if simply changing the graduation wheels for metric ones might be enough to 'make it' metric?  Anyone know?   I haven't included this in the below quote.  If we were to eventually CNC it this might be less of an issue, but still.

Here is a link to Axminster's user guide for the ZX30M (their rebadged version of the Rongfu RF30)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95315055/ZX30M%20manual.pdf

This also includes some exploded parts diagrams.

It also confirms their original motor spec as  a 2HP 1.5kW single phase motor.

Several people have enquired about whether we could find a suitable 3-phase motor.

This is a possibility and I'm still seeing what I can find from suppliers.  I am slightly limited by not knowing spindle size of original motor.  If we did get a 3 phase motor, we would be able to run it off single phase via a VFD (Colin mentioned that he might be able to souce - if you could confirm costs etc, that would be great Colin  - thank you!)

The exploded parts diagram (page 24) suggests part number '159' - 'flat pin' might fit in a groove in the motor spindle (ie woodruff key type?) to stop pulley rotating.  If so, that might limit our choice of motors a bit.

The parts I have suggested we would need SO FAR are:

3-67 motor

3-71 v-belt

3-74 v-belt

3-145 x2 'hex taper head lock screw'

3-159'flat pin'

3-156 x4 motor mount bolts/washers 

3-132 x8 motor mount bolts/washers

3-153 x4 motor mount bolts/washers

and these were quoted as being £152.68 including shipping from Far East (?Taiwan/China)

If anyone else fancies a look at these and agreeing/disagreeing with my suggestions above, that would be good!

Where we are at now.

================

Waiting to hear back from Axminster re 3 phase motor

About to ask Rongfu directly.

Info from Colin re ?VFD availability

Next

====

I would like to order the stand (Axminster's is £250 + shipping), but reviews say it's a bit wobbly.  I'd still suggest getting it and adding some cross-bracing.  This will allow us to get the mill bolted together and fixed upright, and then we can examine further.  I'm pretty sure there will end up being more bits we need from Rongfu.

Stand URL:  http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-zx30m-floor-stand

Any specific objections to ordering the stand in the interim?

Regards,

David

[Dan Nixon]

Since part 159 describes itself as a "flat" pin I would assume it is just a standard parallel key (as opposed to the semi-circular Woodruff key), in which case finding an equivalent motor should be easy.

I had a quick look and you can get a 2HP 3ph motor for just shy of £100.

The most common mounting of (3ph) motors of this size seems to be 90 frame with the B3 foot mounting plate (see http://www.paranaamotors.com/pdf/mounting.pdf).

I'll have a look tomorrow and measure what the existing plate is.

Dan

[David Pye]

OK - this sounds promising.

I am tempted to put order in for everything but the motor.

And to get that stand (despite the reviews on the site).

We can then get on with things.  The stand is in the UK so should be considerably faster to arrive!

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[David Pye]

Coolant answer!

The stand I'm proposing to get on and order has a coolant tray.

I'm pretty hopeful a cheapish pump, DiY filter and a container of 'white water' should do it :-)

I would propose we fab up something suitable ourselves :-)

David

[Colin Jones]

1.5kW VFD will cost nothing. I'll have to check when I'm in next but I think there's one in my box. I'll also get some measurements off a 1.5kW motor at work for reference, but we don't have a spare motor.

[David Pye]

OK - Axminster have confirmed that they do not supply a 3 phase motor that would be suitable for this machine.

I am proposing that we proceed as follows:

I will order the ZX30M stand.  It may well need a little 'stiffening'.  This means machine can be assembled and placed upright, cleaned, oil-stoned etc.  We can also do other jobs in parallel once this is done.

Order the pulley, flat pin and mounting bolts (they are cheap anyway!, motor was expensive bit!)

Collect the pledges - so I can reimburse myself for the above!

Once pulley and flat pin arrives we can measure shaft dia and keyway size, and attempt to source a 3 phase motor that will suit (+VFD). *IF* ultimately unsuccessful, backup plan is to order a single phase one from Rongfu.

Any thoughts/comments?

[Jon Davies]

From Steve Q:
"...
Would a 3ph motor restrict us in the future?

What if we have to move building again or just re-jig the current space?  Seams to me that a 3 pin plug would be a better option for this.

Has anyone thought about the implications of PAT testing?

If it's hard wired to 3ph then it's not a portable appliance and would therefore need a whole other set of H&S docs for maintenance etc.  Again, a 3 pin plug would solve this as everything else in the space has a 3 pin plug.
..."

My responses/questions:

>Would a 3ph motor restrict us in the future?
Only if we got the 3ph1.5kW thingy that requires 20A and we couldn't get 20A.

>Has anyone thought about the implications of PAT testing?
At what point is the line drawn on Portable? Does a 250kg pile of metal actually come under PAT?

>If it's hard wired to 3ph then it's not a portable appliance
Ok! Got it. Weird rules IMO but OK...
We're keen on VFD, so it'll likely not be wired to 3ph but instead single phase (I assume!), but if 20A then definitely not the usual plug.

[David Pye]

^^agreed with above :-)

What do people think of my suggestion about proceeding to order stand and pulley but not motor?

[Glen Beestone]

makes sense.

than we can get it mounted and work on it

 

Glen

 

 

 

Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 at 11:56 AM
From: "David Pye" <davi...@gmail.com>
To: "north-ea...@googlegroups.com" <north-ea...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

[Jon Davies]

>What do people think of my suggestion about proceeding to order stand and pulley but not motor?

Yes please! :)

[David Pye]

OK :)

Stand is purchased.

I am getting it delivered to mine a week today.  It's 80kg of steel, so later on in the week I will see if I can find a couple of kind volunteers for me to pick up, take over to mine to help me lift it into the back of my estate to get it over to the space.

Once it's there we can drop the base of the mill onto it, and see where the thing might best sit.  We could then think of putting the pillar onto it, and see what other things will need to be done to get it commissioned.  It'll be much easier to do this and start greasing/painting/polishing/oilstoning things once this is completed :-)

This would be a good time once we can actually see its' footprint, to decide where it should live.

I agree with Alistair's opinion that having it behind several easily movable things is OK as I doubt it will be in daily use (though prepared to be surprised....!)

David

[David Pye]

To answer Dan's question about the spindle, MSC (the original equipment 'rebadger') have replied with :

The mill/drills, we sell have the R8 Spindle (7/16”-20TPI Arbor Bolt), for the R8 collet tooling & a 3MT arbor.

Hopefully this is what you wanted to know, Dan!

David

[glenb]

Sorry if this has already been discussed and I missed it.
Are there workpiece holders / vices with the mill and if not have they been budgeted for. ?

Alistair mentioning we need a vice for the pillar drill ( I agree) brought it to mind

G

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

[Dan Nixon]

There are none with the mill currently, I assume this was what some of the extra cash would be spent on.

Dan

[David Pye]

Ditto :-)

[David Pye]

Hi Colin,

To reply to your message on here (and a bcc to make sure you we it) :

The motor shaft certainly is keyed but I cannot get any further details on either that or the mounting at the moment.  Mounting we can probably deduce from the plate, shaft length,key way,diameter will be harder without the pulley in hand.

The only way I can think of to do so is going to be to order the pulley (with its 16week lead time) then use that to deduce the motor details.

The  alternative solution is to buy the single phase motor at the same time and put a 3ph update into the future.

My plan at the mo is to get hold of the stand/cabinet (arriving Monday) then grease up and mount the base then pillar.  We can then inspect the functioning of lead screws etc and see if anything needs to be added to the existing order.   We can then make a decision about what to do about the motor at that point when we put the parts order in :-)

David

[glenb]

What is the spec for theV-belt. I might be able to source one from work

[David Pye]

Do you mean this one or the lathe one?

I have two milling machine belts and pulley on provisional order for the mill...

(And no specs)

[glenb]

I meant the mill but if thats sorted then good

[David Pye]

Here's another technical thought.

Our current mill is imperial.  And potentially (though I've no idea!) has some degree of wear in leadscrews etc.

I've been talking to ISC (the original importers) about a number of things, including metric parts.

These parts:

Part Assembly # SM6144S    $ 22.15ea.

Part assembly # SM62245    $156.90ea.

Part Assembly # SM66055   $82.68ea.

Part Assembly # SM62155   $47.08ea.

(1 of each) would be a full metric conversion, including replacement of the leadscrews and ballnuts etc for metric 'pitch' ones.   This would eliminate issues with ours having wear also. 

 Not an immediate priority I don't think, but something to think about?

See the PDF attached for info (shows parts in more detail etc):  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95315055/Metricconversion.pdf

Cheers

David

[Benjamin]

Found the motor. (With no small contribution of effort from a man who I now owe a beer, and our first free coinciding afternoon for ages) it was under a pile of stuff in long term storage.
This does save some work and risk but also means some researching time was wasted. Sorry about that!

[Glen Beestone]

Awesome work!

 

and i reckon we now owe you that beer in return :-)

 

G

 

 

 

Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 7:54 PM
From: Benjamin <sha...@gmail.com>
To: "North East Makers" <north-ea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

Found the motor. (With no small contribution of effort from a man who I now owe a beer, and our first free coinciding afternoon for ages) it was under a pile of stuff in long term storage.
This does save some work and risk but also means some researching time was wasted. Sorry about that!

[David Pye]

I THINK THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!

Well done !!!

Does it still have the pulley on it?

[Iain Yarnall]

Well done that man!

 - and the belt?

Cheers,

Iain.

[Benjamin]

Yup, a pulley with 4 grooves, but no belt.. Would have been useful to measure the length, but we wouldn't have wanted to use it anyway. Anyway, it's in the space so you can take a closer look at your leisure.

Yes, he is a bit of a legend...

No belt, but they should be able to advise the length given the diameters and separation

[Jon Davies]

Yay :)

--

[Jon Davies]

I do wonder why it was removed. Save weight?

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

David,

last night while we got to work on the mill I remember the drive belt having B23, or was it B25, printed on it.  Anyway, a quick google search has thrown this up

http://www.bearing-king.co.uk/products.php?cat=0&search=v%20belt&d=0&D=0&bt=0&pageno=7

A quick measure of the existing belt would verify the size (17mm top width 11mm thick what ever inside length).

I also think a loop of rope or wire or something could be used to select a length for the missing belt.  Tie up a loop at an available belt length, then try fitting it to every pulley combination to confirm the motor spring will load the belts up.  What do you think?

thanks

Steve

On Sunday, 8 November 2015 17:20:45 UTC, David Pye wrote:

Hi all,

I've split this off the thread because there are a couple of technical issues to discuss.

Mopstly relate specifically to the motor choice.

A further issue I noticed when looking over the mill is that it is graduated in IMPERIAL measurements.  I am guessing it might have originated in the USA, based on the fact that it is badged MSC.  I wonder if simply changing the graduation wheels for metric ones might be enough to 'make it' metric?  Anyone know?   I haven't included this in the below quote.  If we were to eventually CNC it this might be less of an issue, but still.

Here is a link to Axminster's user guide for the ZX30M (their rebadged version of the Rongfu RF30)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95315055/ZX30M%20manual.pdf

This also includes some exploded parts diagrams.

It also confirms their original motor spec as  a 2HP 1.5kW single phase motor.

Several people have enquired about whether we could find a suitable 3-phase motor.

This is a possibility and I'm still seeing what I can find from suppliers.  I am slightly limited by not knowing spindle size of original motor.  If we did get a 3 phase motor, we would be able to run it off single phase via a VFD (Colin mentioned that he might be able to souce - if you could confirm costs etc, that would be great Colin  - thank you!)

[David Pye]

Hi Steven,

Great work last night!

Research and the rongfu manual say the belts should be B34 and B42.

Will check supply and costs.  I won't dawdle :-)

David

[David Pye]

Aaaand ordered 2 of each. 

Should have within a few days or so!  Will post shortly on here to discuss tooling etc to get things started :-)

Cheers

David 

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Great,

both sizes are available from that web site for under £10 ex vat for the pair.

I've ordered a 2.5 inch machine vice from ebay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291495885357?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

It should be a good size for the small drilling machine.  It "should" work with the mill once we get T nuts and bolts etc but it may be a bit on the small side.  Anyway it's a little Christmas prezzie to the Space :)

[Jon Davies]

Yay Steve! *high five*

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

David,

I mentioned Chronos Ltd to you last night for all things mill tool and model engineering related.  Here's the link to their site and ebay shop

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Chronos-Engineering-Supplies

enjoy

[David Pye]

Hi Steven/others

we should definitely look at their site for some things we'll need.

I think it would be useful to make up a shopping list of tooling we'd like.  I'll set up a page on the wiki for tooling etc we think would be useful and then we can collectively decide what to get.

Regarding safety, there are two things that we need to add:

Emergency stop mechanism

Access control system/lockout  (reasonably, required by the directors from a legal/safety assurance perspective).

Re emergency stop, something like http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-1-phase-nvr-switches-ax21289 might do it (Suggested by Dan Nixon) - it will support addition of a floor mount switch as well.

Re access control, I would propose that we use a similar mechanism to the RFID door lock mechanism, which switches a 13A relay in order to enable power to the mill when it's activated.  RFID touch->sign in, touch (or touch a different RFID) to sign out.  Simple but effective.

Door database to be extended to maintain a list of trained users.

Any thoughts re the above?   The access controller will have zero cost, as I have the bits already to implement it.

David

[David Pye]

Few more items for the shopping list.

The Axminster NVR as above is on its' way.

The drive belts are on their way

Working currently on access control system (RFID, provides an interlock/access control system the directors require us to fit to stop Joe Public mangling himself on it!)

Need some T-bolts for mounting items to the bed:  https://www.cromwell.co.uk/index.php?q=0&p=viewproduct&i=IND4252035K appear to be the correct size for our table.  I propose to get maybe a total of 8 of them - they aren't expensive.

The spindle is R8, not 3MT, so we could do with some R8 collets.  Any suggestions for some basic tooling?  Dan has access to some bits but we will need some R8 collets to get us started.  

Do we want an R8 Jacobs chuck for drilling, or is this best avoided for now?

Thoughts? :-)

Cheers,

David

[Colin Jones]

We have a larger one of those at work. 'reasonable quality' is stretching it. Nobody uses it if there is another machine vice around.
OK for light drilling only. It is not suitable for milling - the workpiece will fly out when the cutter bites.

Here is a milling vice  -  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351101952030
but I'm looking at some proper second-hand ones going cheap if I can collect them.

On Thursday, 19 November 2015 11:39:11 UTC, StevenQ-NE-UK wrote:

Great,

[Glen Beestone]

Hi Mill Refurbing team,

 

I have  Keyswitched E-stop button if it is of  any use 

 

Press to activate ( can be set to normally open or normally closed )

Needs a key to reset it once pressed.

 

Could be useful for the Mill

or could be put in place of the non keyed Estop on the lathe, in which case we could use both the Estop and the isolater from the lathe on the Mill

 

I'll bring it in tonight.

 

regards

 

Glen

 

 

 

Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 at 2:51 PM
From: "Colin Jones" <maker....@gmail.com>

To: "North East Makers" <north-ea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

--

[David Pye]

Vices :-)

I would like us to purchase a vice next.  Out of the £600 makerspace allocated to us for the project, we have £177 remaining.

Vice options I've found:

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=Precision-Angle-Lock-Milling-Machine-Vice-150mm---6--1629%2ehtml#SID=348 (seems largest opening jaws)

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=Vertex-VBV-5-Milling-Vice-1274888%2ehtml#SID=346

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=4--2-WAY-UNIVERSAL-VICE--MILLING-DRILLING-GRINDING--621%2ehtml#SID=357  (4 inch jaws, but tilts as well as rotates - 2 axis....!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERTEX-K4-4-100-mm-MILLING-VICE-FOR-MILLING-MACHINE-/300494715303  (4 inch jaws).

Thoughts/opinions welcome!

I have a 5% discount voucher code for rdg tools, so we can trim 5% off those prices.

Cheers

David

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Greetings Makers,

I am not sure how many of us are mechanical engineers and / or are familiar with mechanical engineering machines and practices, so I'll just put a quick brain dump here about my thoughts on a machine vice for the new / old mill.

First, and most important, is rigidity rigidity rigidity.

As we have already identified some slop in the existing lead screws then this is even more important than ever (no climb milling for us just yet)

In my opinion once the vice is clamped to the mill bed the only other moving part should be the vice jaw.

This way we can achieve maximum available rigidity and have the lowest number of bolts etc to check before moving on.

We all seam VERY concerned about the potential of accident when machining metal, so lets make it easy for ourselves to work safe.

Second is size.

This is never an easy thing to decide as people will eventually want to make parts of all shape and size.

So, here's some logical food for thought.

   1. Should the vice open wider than the max Y axis travel.  You don't want to rotate a job 180 deg in the vice to mill the whole top surface, well not unless its in some super duper machined job holder, but let's not go there just yet.

   2. How high are the jaws.  Big jaws are great for big jobs but putting small jobs in a big vice will only lead to pinched fingers and swearing or a poorly clamped job and yet more swearing.

   3. How wide are the jaws.  This is not easy to control due to the vice proportions, that's why it's last in the list.  But still something to think about.

Third is ease of use.

Yeah I know it's a vice, how hard can it be right?

Here's a break down of check's I'd do before I even think about the cutter

   1. Check T nut claps are the correct size, type and are tight

   2. Ensure vice does not move on the mill bed.

   3. Inspect vice jaws and ensure all particles are removed, no one want there part scratched or dented by old swarf

   4. Set part in vice and check the exposed material is enough and not over excessive

   5. (OPTIONAL use a parallel under the part to set the height and ensure flatness)

   6. (OPTIONAL use a sacrificial item, like a small aluminium welding rod, that will deform and fill any void between the vice jaws and the part.  Believe it or not, square bar is far from square)

   7. Lightly tighten the vice jaws

   8. Tap the part into the vice with a soft mallet.

   9. Fully tighten the vice.

   10. Remove vice handle, if it's that type of vice (most are but you never know)

   11. (OPTIONAL) Remove the parallel if it was used.  Let's face it, it's not clamped under the part, it's just there for spacing so remove it before it rattles out anyway.

   12. Again, ensure vice does not move on the mill bed.

Wow, 12 steps and that just for a standard machine vice, Who knows how many more steps there would be if it was an all singing twisty, flippy, swively vice.

Anyway, that's probably enough to think about for now.  Let me know your thoughts.

I know this is probably total over kill for a vice decision but lets think safe, work safe, be safe.

thanks

Steve

So, how many of you Googled "climb milling" then ha ha ha ha

[David Pye]

Hi Steve,

As you know, I have minimal mechanical engineering experience (did a bit of milling and lath'ing around 1999 when doing a GNVQ!)

Useful pointers above indeed.

Did you see the vices I provided links for?  Any thoughts /alternative suggestions for a suitable one? 

They are small to medium, but my logic was that for massive jobs (if anyone wants to do them) people are more likely to be making dies or clamping to the bed?

David

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Hi David,

here's a quick question.  If you wanted to make a parts that's the size of a fist, is it a small, med of large part?  And, before anyone else says it, I know, we all have different sized hands.  I'm just trying to get us all thinking along the same lines for scale.

I'd say, from a Makerspace point of view, that a fist sized part is a med sized part.


I did check out those links.  I'll just re-post them below and put my thoughts under the link.  Please remember I'm coming from the ease of use and safety point of view.

Number 1

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=Precision-Angle-Lock-Milling-Machine-Vice-150mm---6--1629%2ehtml#SID=348

This one looks good.  150mm opening.

Looks like the rotating base can be removed and the vice can be clamped ridged to the mill bed in the X axis (confirmation needed)

Number 2

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=Vertex-VBV-5-Milling-Vice-1274888%2ehtml#SID=346

Again, looks good.  100mm opening is still a good size

And again, it looks like the rotating base can be removed but this time it looks like the vice can be clamped ridged to the mill bed in the X and Y axis (confirmation needed)

Number 3

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=vice&PN=4--2-WAY-UNIVERSAL-VICE--MILLING-DRILLING-GRINDING--621%2ehtml#SID=357

Rather a nice example of the all singing all dancing vice.  Looks a bit narrow but then again you don't want total manipulation of big parts.

Looks like this one is not removable from the base and therefore can not be clamped ridged to the mill bed.

This will do more positional work than the others but dose, in my opinion, put limits on the more basic functions.

Number 4

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERTEX-K4-4-100-mm-MILLING-VICE-FOR-MILLING-MACHINE-/300494715303

Smallest of the ones listed here but still a nice vice.  I'd say we would be maxing it out on the "fist" scale

Again, it looks like the rotating base can be removed and the vice can be clamped ridged to the mill bed in the X and Y axis (confirmation needed)

I'd select Number 2 or 4 purely on ridged clamping options (confirmation needed on this of course), and between them number 2 on size.

Number 3 is awesome but here's something to think about.

The X and Y lead screws of the mill will have a scale that shows 3 decimal places for metric or imperial measurements (depending what's fitted) and a DRO system (Digital ReadOut) would also show 3 decimal places for metric or imperial measurements (depending what's fitted) on X and Y.  But this vice only has a visual angle scale for setup.

It's a really nice vice because it moves in lots of ways, but it's biggest falling point is, it moves in lots of ways.

It's one of those things where, if you need it for a specific job then nothing else will work at all (well ok, not totally true but true enough for now) but it's not great for every job.

Wow, who knew vices were so interesting lol

thanks

Steve

[David Pye]

Hi all,

Latest update:  The BFV (Big 'friendly' vice) has now arrived, and is sitting on the mill bed - not yet bolted in!

That's pretty much it, in terms of initial commissioning.  We have some basic tools, a vice and an access control system (that is still under a bit of development).

It's currently ready for further testing (Mainly by myself, Dan and StevenQ at present).  If anyone wants to use it etc, let us know.

Thanks

David

[Laird of Bandrum]

Hi If you let me know size of bolts for mill vice, if needed, I can probably get some FOC.

[David Pye]

Hi Paul,

Do you mean to bolt it to the bed?  If so, thanks but we already have a clamping set along with the t nuts for the slots :-)

Thanks

David

On Thursday, 31 December 2015, Laird of Bandrum <traingua...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi If you let me know size of bolts for mill vice, if needed, I can probably get some FOC.

[glenb]

Surely the clamping set is for holding down material directly to the bed.

Yes we'll need t nuts for the vice but you also need bolts for those T-nuts to go through the vice.

I'm not a milling expert but in all the milling vids I have watched i've never seen a vice held down with material clamps. It's always bolted directly

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

From: David Pye
To: north-ea...@googlegroups.com
CC:

[Dan Nixon]

The shortest bolts on the clamping set are too long to bolt a vice down with (they are even too long to properly clamp down a small piece of Aluminium I was going to have a go with).

So some shorter (maybe 2-3"?) bolts would be useful.

Dan

On Thursday, 31 December 2015 11:50:11 UTC, Glen wrote:

Surely the clamping set is for holding down material directly to the bed.

Yes we'll need t nuts for the vice but you also need bolts for those T-nuts to go through the vice.

I'm not a milling expert but in all the milling vids I have watched i've never seen a vice held down with material clamps. It's always bolted directly

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: David Pye
To: north-ea...@googlegroups.com
CC:

Hi Paul,

Do you mean to bolt it to the bed?  If so, thanks but we already have a clamping set along with the t nuts for the slots :-)

Thanks

David

On Thursday, 31 December 2015, Laird of Bandrum <traingua...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi If you let me know size of bolts for mill vice, if needed, I can probably get some FOC.

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[David Pye]

I was expecting that studding, nuts and theT-Nuts would allow us to bolt the vice directly to the bed.

This vice is thicker than the smaller drilling vice we had, so I had expected that the shortest studs should have enough thread on to allow this to happen.

David

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Dan Nixon <danns...@gmail.com> wrote:

The shortest bolts on the clamping set are too long to bolt a vice down with (they are even too long to properly clamp down a small piece of Aluminium I was going to have a go with).

So some shorter (maybe 2-3"?) bolts would be useful.

Dan

On Thursday, 31 December 2015 11:50:11 UTC, Glen wrote:

Surely the clamping set is for holding down material directly to the bed.

Yes we'll need t nuts for the vice but you also need bolts for those T-nuts to go through the vice.

I'm not a milling expert but in all the milling vids I have watched i've never seen a vice held down with material clamps. It's always bolted directly

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: David Pye
To: north-ea...@googlegroups.com
CC:

Hi Paul,

Do you mean to bolt it to the bed?  If so, thanks but we already have a clamping set along with the t nuts for the slots :-)

Thanks

David

On Thursday, 31 December 2015, Laird of Bandrum <traingua...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi If you let me know size of bolts for mill vice, if needed, I can probably get some FOC.

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[glenb]

What dia are they and are they and are they metric or imperial ?

G

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[David Pye]

The studding  (and thus the T-nut thread is 14mm).

I had thought the shortest studs might be adequate - I did not in any way mean to use the CLAMPS from the clamping set to hold the vice in place - I meant studding, nuts and t-nuts (but if, as Dan says, that despite this new vice's thicker base, the shortest studs may be too long...

David

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[Dan Nixon]

The clamps I think are around 3/4" thick (?) plus around 10mm for the material, and the studs were only just too long.

Unless it is a particularly thick base then I would assume the studs are too long.

Dan

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[glenb]

M14

right, I'll see if we've got any at work unless Paul comes across some.

G

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[Laird of Bandrum]

Hi All I could not get right size bolts but after discussion with steve there is a piece of 20mm bar in bottom of mill stand. Inside Cash convertors bag. Steve said would be able to make necessary fixings from it if all else fails.

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Nice one Paul

I'll mill a couple of flats for a spanner and turn the rest of the bar to the correct size then thread a section at the end.

On a side note. I was messing with the mill on Tuesday and discovered the drill chuck won't fit until we adjust the height of the drive section. Anyone know what size those 2 nuts are that secures the drive section on the pillar. I think they look like 22mm but I couldn't find a socket and or drive to fit.

Thanks

Steve

[glenb]

I'll check tomorrow if we have any suitable studding or bolts at work

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: Laird of Bandrum
To: North East Makers
CC:

Hi All I could not get right size bolts but after discussion with steve there is a piece of 20mm bar in bottom of mill stand. Inside Cash convertors bag. Steve said would be able to make necessary fixings from it if all else fails.

[David Pye]

Hi,

I can just pop along to my nut and bolt shop and pay a couple of quid for a pair!

I've managed to get the drill chuck into place - do you mean that it won't go into place when the vice is seated?  If so, yes, I agree!

David

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Yeah the chuck fits great it just hangs down about an inch or so below the vice jaws. A quick turn of the handle to lift the drive unit up the pillar will sort it but we need to loosen and tighten those large nuts. As they sit in a recess it makes fitting a spanner on them impossible. Looks like a socket is the only way

Thanks

Steve

[David Pye]

Hi,

Will measure em up to double check tomorrow, then will pop to nut n'bolt shop on Friday (which also sells sockets!) and get one along with bolts for vice.

Do we have a socket set in the space?  (Will cross post to main list..  if so, would get one with same 'drive' size..)

David

[David Pye]

I have the bolts and a 1/2 dr socket that should do the pillar bolts.

Will drop in tomorrow am :-)

David

[glenb]

Hi Steve,

Here's the milling cog repair video is was telling you about tonight. Also check out part 2

https://youtu.be/PI96CzxFUPI

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: StevenQ-NE-UK
To: North East Makers
CC:

[StevenQ-NE-UK]

Hi Glen,

that's an awesome repair in that video.  It reminds me of the Iron Bridge design, like wood working with metal lol.

An old friend of mine who was well into model engineering told me to be prepared to spend 75% of manual machine time making tools, holders, jigs and clamps so you can spend the other 25% of the time actually cutting project parts.  Very true words indeed.

David,

Glen has asked if he can have access to the milling machine.  Can you make that happen or is there some request procedure that we need to run through?

[David Pye]

Hi,

Update; bolts are now installed but not tightened for the vice.  I did wonder if a couple of penny washers and a slight filing of the slots on the vice base might make it fit more neatly but haven't done anything with that.

Have also sourced an appropriate 1/2" drive 23mm socket for the column clamp nuts.  Was on a flying visit so didn't go looking for a driver for them.  Hopefully there is a suitable breaker bar somewhere!

I can certainly get you added, Glen - I will discuss with alistair to see where the database is at as currently as I cannot use it I have to keep reflashing the access controller.  It might end up being a job for Wednesday as I have new hardware also :-)

David

[glenb]

Milling porn :-)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: StevenQ-NE-UK
To: North East Makers
CC:

[glenb]

Thank you sir,

When are u next in and I'll register my RFID

Are you around tomorrow ?

A few us are around to do Cay's 3D design survey and talk 3D printing until we have to go to the pub to recover

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion

From: David Pye
To: north-ea...@googlegroups.com
CC:

Hi,

Update; bolts are now installed but not tightened for the vice.  I did wonder if a couple of penny washers and a slight filing of the slots on the vice base might make it fit more neatly but haven't done anything with that.

Have also sourced an appropriate 1/2" drive 23mm socket for the column clamp nuts.  Was on a flying visit so didn't go looking for a driver for them.  Hopefully there is a suitable breaker bar somewhere!

I can certainly get you added, Glen - I will discuss with alistair to see where the database is at as currently as I cannot use it I have to keep reflashing the access controller.  It might end up being a job for Wednesday as I have new hardware also :-)

David

On Friday, 8 January 2016, StevenQ-NE-UK <steven...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Dan Nixon]

If you are in a rush then I have a spare authenticated card.
There is no recording or anything like that now so there shouldn't be a problem lending a card.

Dan

[glenb]

Cheers Dan. If i see you i may grab it
but no hurry.

G

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Makers] Re: Milling machine recommissioning - technical discussion
From: Dan Nixon
To: North East Makers
CC:

If you are in a rush then I have a spare authenticated card.
There is no recording or anything like that now so there shouldn't be a problem lending a card.

Dan

[glenb]

Had a look last night.
The new vice certainly looks the business

G

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[David Pye]

Sexy, isn't it?

(and if anyone drills/mills a hole in it, as Brian noticed they have with the mini vice on the pillar drill kindly provided by Steve Quinn, there will be issues....)

David

[David Pye]

Hi,

I've swapped out the hardware last night for a custom board, and also the software now checks online for updates, so although further work needs to be done, it should still work acceptably well, and also be possible to add people without reflashing it.

Any issues do let me know!

Thanks

David