Node Red Home Automation Hub

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Joe Morris

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Apr 9, 2018, 11:06:52 AM4/9/18
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Before anyone scolds me, I did do a search and did not find much other than an effort from 2 years ago. :)

There are a lot of Home Automation Hubs available in the marketplace but all of them seem to lack, IMHO, solid architectures and frameworks to be extremely valuable and viable.

Having worked with Node Red for a year now and having built a home audio interface device I know quite well the speed at which a product can be developed using Node Red.

If it hasn't already been done, would anyone be interested in joining an effort to create a home automation hub using Node-Red?

I am just trying to get a feel for level of interest.

I look forward to hearing responses.

Thanks

Joe

Colin Law

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Apr 9, 2018, 4:40:08 PM4/9/18
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On 9 April 2018 at 16:06, Joe Morris <jmorr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Before anyone scolds me, I did do a search and did not find much other than
> an effort from 2 years ago. :)
>
> There are a lot of Home Automation Hubs available in the marketplace but all
> of them seem to lack, IMHO, solid architectures and frameworks to be
> extremely valuable and viable.
>
> Having worked with Node Red for a year now and having built a home audio
> interface device I know quite well the speed at which a product can be
> developed using Node Red.
>
> If it hasn't already been done, would anyone be interested in joining an
> effort to create a home automation hub using Node-Red?

Can you give some idea of what the hub would consist of (h/w and s/w)?

Colin

Walter Kraembring

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Apr 10, 2018, 8:57:58 AM4/10/18
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I have built (or better, configured) a rather advanced Node-RED home automation system involving all kind of disciplines; intrusion, video, automation, messaging etc etc and other "nice to have" services for our home

For me, I think Node-RED in itself is the hub. The generic or common parts are provided by the many available Nodes and what you might configure in Node-RED settings. What you then configure in the flows is your specific needs and this is the part where you quickly get into a personalization. At least my opinion. Obviously, certain flows could be made "generic" to some extent. Most of the time, you would anyway have to make adjustments and changes to those if you find and import something that "almost fits"

At least for me, I can do if the generics are provided by the Nodes. For specific hardware devices and software services

So I don't know, maybe a basic Home Automation flow could be made but,,

Joe Morris

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Apr 10, 2018, 1:25:41 PM4/10/18
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Sure. Initial thoughts would be something small like a Raspberry Pi for hardware with a zwave dongle if necessary. I don't see any need for any software other than node-red.

The reason that I am thinking this way is that I just don't see a HA hub out in the marketplace that does everything correctly, IMHO. For example, SmartThings still has issues because the internet is required for it to work.

HomeSeer is quite old and although I use it as a vital part of my own HA, it seems as if the core company is just not interested in keeping it updated. IT is beneficial however, that there are quite a few individuals continuing to make plugins for it.

Some of the other software-based hubs still use text files for configurations and it takes quite a bit of learning process.

All of the other hubs that I have researched are tied to a specific hardware platform of their own (SmartThings is this way too.)

I believe that all of these issues could be eliminated by using node-red in this space.

Joe
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Joe Morris

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Apr 10, 2018, 1:28:52 PM4/10/18
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I too have developed a personal node-red based HA hub. And I will continue to enhance it as well for my personal needs.

 

But I was contemplating, that if I and others like yourself are spending time to develop a node-red based hub for ourselves, what could we accomplish working on a project together.

 

That is basically why I am trying to gauge interest.

 

Joe

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Neil Cherry

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Apr 10, 2018, 3:36:19 PM4/10/18
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Add me in as another HA (really need a better term) hub builder. I have a bunch of scripts (Perl, Python and BASH) feeding various MQTT topics. Then Node-Red has various flows dealing with the specific parts. Things like Air Quality indicators, weather, presence, geo-location, health-check (device for now) and normal HA are all done in various flows. Things that devour the CPU get tossed into their own script outside Node-Red and then dealt with in cron or the at command. I have a bunch of HA suites but I've moved away from them.

Andy

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Apr 10, 2018, 8:13:12 PM4/10/18
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I started using home-assistant and then openhab and when I discovered node-red I tossed them.  I am feeding tons of stuff into NR - CAN, MQTT, zwave, adc, gpio, i2c stuff, 1-wire, and internet stuff as well.  I find the integration bits easy in NR, but a webgui/mobile app frontend design that looks nice is much harder for me.  I eventually decided to stop using the dashboard and make my own frontend with uibuilder, which isn't a trivial undertaking for the creativity-challenged like myself.  A screen full of switches and buttons gets it done, but there isn't anything more advanced like logging power usage, solar output, viewing trends, or scheduling easily done in dashboard for example.

Neil Cherry

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Apr 10, 2018, 8:49:43 PM4/10/18
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One little gotcha I've (not) seen, I can't find an Open Source ZigBee interface for Linux. Right now I cheat with SmartThings and MQTT. I'm actually using that for my Z-Wave also(though I do have the Pi Z-Wave interface).

Stephen Mann

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Apr 11, 2018, 9:20:58 AM4/11/18
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Like Andy, I tried and discarded all of the other HA Platforms as either too limited or too complex (usually both).  Node-Red is "just right" (with the right dashboard).  I've recently been experimenting with the Nextion touch-screen display to use as a wall-mounted dashboard, and it will be Grandma-tested.  (If Grandma can figure how to use it, it passes the test).  The Nextion connected to a NodeMCU which will communicate with Node-Red using MQTT messages.

Steve

Walter Kraembring

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Apr 11, 2018, 11:03:08 AM4/11/18
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I can't find an Open Source ZigBee interface for Linux

I do not know if you have IKEA in your location. They have new wireless products named TRADFRI and they are using Zig-Bee. They state that they are compatible with other Zig-Bee products


For TRADFRI there is already a Node available :)

Joe Morris

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Apr 11, 2018, 11:36:55 AM4/11/18
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A couple of thoughts that I have had for a user interface.

 

A fire tablet. With the new ones (2017) you can have Alexa always on so they will work just like an echo dot. I am assuming that they would display the dashboard very nicely.

 

I have also been talking with the developer of Action Tiles. Currently action tiles only works with a Smart Things hub. He mentioned that if we can code a compliant smart things device handler then actions tiles would work well with it. Most of the coding that I have done to date is creating device handlers. So I am fairly familiar with it.

 

The biggest UI question that I have is secured remote access. Currently I can control my whole house from my iPhone. I would not want to give that up.

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Stephen Mann
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 8:21 AM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

Like Andy, I tried and discarded all of the other HA Platforms as either too limited or too complex (usually both).  Node-Red is "just right" (with the right dashboard).  I've recently been experimenting with the Nextion touch-screen display to use as a wall-mounted dashboard, and it will be Grandma-tested.  (If Grandma can figure how to use it, it passes the test).  The Nextion connected to a NodeMCU which will communicate with Node-Red using MQTT messages.

Steve

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Joe Morris

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Apr 11, 2018, 11:37:40 AM4/11/18
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I do have an IKEA near me. I will have to check it out.

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Walter Kraembring
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:03 AM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

I can't find an Open Source ZigBee interface for Linux

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Walter Kraembring

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Apr 11, 2018, 1:13:00 PM4/11/18
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The biggest UI question that I have is secured remote access

Yes for sure, very important. I use a vpn that safeguards this. But do you mean you would like to have some biometric device as well for logon purpose? If you use an Iphone (or Ipad I presume), that is built in then

A very important UI "thing" for me would be if I could use a more powerful design tool where I can position all my buttons, text labels, radio buttons, video viewers, log window etc etc via drag & drop from a tool bar. Then import that artwork into the Node-RED UI somehow, magic it would be. Currently I still fall-back to my "old" web gui made years ago, it's the fact, I could not get enough familiar with the UI. I guess it is, at least for me, because you cannot easily control the positions and sizes of the various graphic components

Joe Morris

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Apr 11, 2018, 1:53:47 PM4/11/18
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I agree on the easy to use design tool. That is what has kept me away from some of the open source solutions.

 

I have not used Action Tiles yet, but I believe it is more of a drag and drop interface. If we can create the device handlers like I mentioned in the other post I think it would be a good solution set.

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Walter Kraembring
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 12:13 PM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

The biggest UI question that I have is secured remote access

 

Yes for sure, very important. I use a vpn that safeguards this. But do you mean you would like to have some biometric device as well for logon purpose? If you use an Iphone (or Ipad I presume), that is built in then

 

A very important UI "thing" for me would be if I could use a more powerful design tool where I can position all my buttons, text labels, radio buttons, video viewers, log window etc etc via drag & drop from a tool bar. Then import that artwork into the Node-RED UI somehow, magic it would be. Currently I still fall-back to my "old" web gui made years ago, it's the fact, I could not get enough familiar with the UI. I guess it is, at least for me, because you cannot easily control the positions and sizes of the various graphic components

 

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Mike Blackstock

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Apr 11, 2018, 2:59:55 PM4/11/18
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I like the idea and would be interested in contributing when I can. Starting to feel like I have too many side projects though... ;-)

Maybe we could start by gathering requirements on a wiki somewhere?

A while back I was thinking about how Node-RED might fit into the Mozilla Project Things.  I think Node-RED might compliment this project, e.g. by providing an easy to use programming environment, but haven't dug into it.

Some links:

Mike

Neil Cherry

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Apr 11, 2018, 11:04:14 PM4/11/18
to Node-RED
I'll check that out. I hope it can talk to the other ZigBee devices I have. I'll check around and see what's available.

Ron Gerrans

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Apr 12, 2018, 8:53:21 AM4/12/18
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I use Home Assistant with MQTT to connect with my ZWave devices since OpenZwave was not giving me accurate dimmer values. From a UI perspective I use Imperihome that I setup with help from Scargill's blog ( need to pull together a follow-up to his with some additional lessons learned). That let's me both setup an in home control tablet and use my phone for out of home control ( I use nginx to setup secure access). Happy to share more details if anyone goes down this path.

rs.23...@gmail.com

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Apr 12, 2018, 10:42:29 AM4/12/18
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I would be interested.
At the moment I am using NR together with Crestron and Command Fusion iViewer for GUI.

Bart

Joe Morris

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Apr 12, 2018, 11:08:04 AM4/12/18
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I too seem to have quite a few side projects. But I thought if a handful of us got together and divide up the workload it not only would be fun but we could end up with a very nice product.

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mike Blackstock
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 2:00 PM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

I like the idea and would be interested in contributing when I can. Starting to feel like I have too many side projects though... ;-)

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Joe Morris

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Apr 12, 2018, 11:24:52 AM4/12/18
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Command Fusion, I had not heard that name in quite a while. But I remember playing with it a while ago.

 

So I looked up my account and I purchased a license back in 2012!!!

 

I will have to re-review it.

 

Joe

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of rs.23...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:42 AM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

I would be interested.

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Joe Morris

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Apr 13, 2018, 10:07:46 AM4/13/18
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Bart,

 

I was just looking at Command Fusion a bit more. It is a little pricier then when I bought a license in 2012. 😊

 

I noticed that the blog has not been updated for 1.5 years. Are they still active with new releases, etc?

 

Joe

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of rs.23...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:42 AM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [node-red] Re: Node Red Home Automation Hub

 

I would be interested.

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Ron Gerrans

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Apr 13, 2018, 10:21:09 AM4/13/18
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I'd be happy to help and submit some of my configurations if someone has a wiki or another location to collect information.  i realized I typoed my earlier email, i'm using HomeSeer, not HomeAssistant to communicate with my Zwave devices.

Joe Morris

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Apr 13, 2018, 11:07:28 AM4/13/18
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I will definitely set some sort of common communication up.

 

Is a wiki the best way?

 

I will do a little research and talk with one of my product managers.

 

Ron – I too am using Homeseer. I purchased one of their small hardware devices. It works pretty slick although I am not too happy with what seems to be their lack of getting out of the 80s with their technology.

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Ron Gerrans
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 9:21 AM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>

Alan Mera

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Apr 13, 2018, 1:57:19 PM4/13/18
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I would also be interested in helping out as well.  I have using Node Red as a hub as well as Homelier together.  I have also designed some hardware for interfacing with my current wired alarm system.  Also using scripts to read Nest thermostat and Ring Doorbell info for input to Node Red.



On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:06:52 AM UTC-5, Joe Morris wrote:

Andy

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Apr 13, 2018, 3:03:58 PM4/13/18
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On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 12:53:47 PM UTC-5, Joe Morris wrote:

I agree on the easy to use design tool. That is what has kept me away from some of the open source solutions.

 

The biggest UI question that I have is secured remote access


For remote access (on a mobile phone) I decided to use MQTT to move the data and have been using a couple MQTT apps (Linear MQTT Dashboard primarily) for Android.  These apps work but they are not ideal because they are very basic.  MQTT can be secured and is lightweight so it works great with a phone.  The primary means of control is a touch screen LCD running Chromium in kiosk mode directly on the Pi running NR.  It would be nice to figure out some kind of mobile app that would work better with this stuff.  Android programming is way beyond me.


Joe Morris

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Apr 13, 2018, 4:36:29 PM4/13/18
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For those of you who are interested, I have set up a feng office server. It was recommended to me so I thought I would give it a try.

 

Shoot me an email and I can send you the ip address. I put it on a micro server on AWS.

 

I think this will be fun and very interesting.

 

Joe

 

From: node...@googlegroups.com <node...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Andy
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 2:04 PM
To: Node-RED <node...@googlegroups.com>

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Stephen Mann

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Apr 13, 2018, 11:57:14 PM4/13/18
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I bought a Fire Tablet to use as a wall-mount dashboard, but it failed the Grandma test.  I never could get any of the Kiosk browsers to work, and the tablet browser was, still a browser.  Complete with tabs and too many buttons you don't want Grandma to be able to press.  I also have a no-name Android tablet that's thinner than the Fire tablet, but it suffers from the same problems as the Fire tablet.  The Alexa node doesn't have to be part of the display, though that would be neat, but as long as you have a Dot nearby (or the cheaper Eula device), you can get the same functionality.

Security- you can program the Nextion display with just what you want that location to have access to.  You program the buttons, switches and feedback indicators.  I have a 3.2-inch Nextion that I am testing (proof of concept), and in it's simplest form, it is an on-off panel.  I press the "On" button and the attached NodeMCU will publish an MQTT message that Node-red handles.

I also have some Tradfi lights.  Of all the Home devices, the Tradfri lights are the most unreliable. They mostly work with Alexa (Seven out of ten times Alexa can turn on the light).  The remote pucks work 100% of the time, however.  I suspect that the problem is in the Gateway.  The description of the Tradfri says they are compatible with other Zigbee components, but I could not find any documentation at that level.

I think that "Home Automation" is an oxymoron- very little is automated.  Yet. 

Steve Mann

Andy

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Apr 14, 2018, 8:50:05 AM4/14/18
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Grandma would like a kiosk browser if you can get it going.  I messed with kweb (and kweb3) for quite a while on Jesse.  kweb ran my uibuilder site and dashboards without any problems, but they changed something along the way and now they do not work at all.  Chromium-browser worked the whole time and that's what I've settled on.  I am using matchbox window manager.  It works really great, I've had the display going uninterrupted for 2 months now.

If it helps, here's how it's launched:

matchbox-window-manager -use_titlebar no -use_cursor no -use_desktop_mode plain

chromium-browser --enable-zero-copy --enable-gpu-rasterization --ignore-gpu-blacklist --no-sandbox --user-data-dir  --enable-native-gpu-memory-buffers --disable-restore-session-state --noerrdialogs --window-size=1280,800 --kiosk http://localhost:1880/ui

Ron Gerrans

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Apr 14, 2018, 9:02:23 AM4/14/18
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@Joe - Agree on the interfaces but after going through Vera, OpenHab, a try at Home Assistant I found it to be the best Zwave interface.  Since I just use it to feed my MQTT server and take care of everything else in Node-Red it makes it usable and allows me to do more advance control loke lock codes and programming my scene controllers...

Look forward to contributing, thanks for kicking this off.

Ron

markos

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Apr 14, 2018, 9:05:21 AM4/14/18
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Simple "kiosk" mode for android:

Open chrome application and enter node red dashboard address.

Choose menu, then click to add to desktop(homepage). Enter name.

Click created icon on homepage

Joe Morris

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Apr 17, 2018, 1:21:20 PM4/17/18
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With the help of Ron Gerrans we set up a small server on AWS with Discourse installed.

This is a place where we can talk about and share ideas regarding a node red based hub.

For those of you who are interested please PM me for the URL.

This will be fun!!

Thanks

Joe

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Joe Morris

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Apr 20, 2018, 6:42:17 PM4/20/18
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I am hoping that some more of the folks are willing to sign up and assist in the development of a node red home control hub. There are 3 of us involved so fay. Please Private Email me and I can send out an invite.

Also, if you know people that are not necessarily node red folks but would have an interest in helping with features, etc. please let them know.

Thanks

Joe

Walter Kraembring

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Apr 21, 2018, 1:19:37 AM4/21/18
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Joe, great ambition but makes me wonder

I just noticed one thing that makes me wanna raise a question.

Since you are the founder of an IoT service & consulting company, iotobox, I just want to know one thing:
- is the idea behind your initiative to create a hub that you later wish to commercialize in products or services in your company?

If the answer to this is YES, I'm out (and most likely I'm out anyway since I felt the risk)

I'm personally not willing to provide consultancy & inject all my life-time-collected-and-learned domain know-how for free to a company that will benefit commercially out of this. I am only willing helping other fellows with their PRIVATE needs. My profession is consultancy for large & complex security-, building automation solutions as well as in IoT 


Walter Kraembring

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Apr 22, 2018, 1:03:20 PM4/22/18
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I had a good discussion with Joe regarding my concern about "commercializing" and this has been sorted out. The purpose with this hub project is for personal usage only, that confirmation is fine for me and I would be happy to join in as well

Joe, thanks for the initiative

Jose Godinho

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Apr 23, 2018, 5:55:32 AM4/23/18
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Hello
i am willing to assist to the red home control hub, as per my catechetical skills

Kind Regards
José Godinho


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skavan

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Apr 23, 2018, 1:37:55 PM4/23/18
to Node-RED
Ditto.
I have built a definition JSON format that allows one to easily generate "control files" for any of the following classes of devices:
  1. tcp
  2. http
  3. harmony hub controlled
and the following payload formats:
  1. ascii/text
  2. json
  3. binary
it also handles custom headers, tokens and other things.

Basically, one enters a definition in a defined json format and commands and responses are capable of being handled in a generic flow (one flow per device).
So far, I have it working for the following devices:
  1. pioneer receivers
  2. sony receivers
  3. denon receivers
  4. samsung smart AC's
  5. Matrix Switcher
  6. Panasonic Projector
  7. TiVo
  8. Vizio Smart TV's
  9. FireTV (via Harmony Hub)
The state of all devices is handled/updated and refreshed via mqtt, as are commands.
The front end can be anything. including node-red itself, or my preferred s/w of "HomeRemote".
A couple of screenshots are attached.
Happy to potentially contribute as I see node-red/pi as the absolute best infrastructure for Home Control -- and I have used most of the commercial things out there.
It's still a bit raw - but working.
Do feel free to send me details of your project.

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Mike Bell

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Apr 23, 2018, 2:11:26 PM4/23/18
to Node-RED
Joe,

Please add me to this effort. 

I am less interested in user interface issues than in working toward maximum flexibility at the hardware and protocol level. There are lot of "hubs" out there that are just controllers for devices from a few manufacturers, using a limited range of communication and control protocols. I think Node-RED has all the capability we need for logic and timing. If we can expand the variety of sensors and actuators that can be interfaced to it (with minimum restrictions on the hardware platform), we can produce a really compelling solution for home automation.

Regards,
Mike

Timur Fatykhov

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Apr 23, 2018, 6:48:59 PM4/23/18
to Node-RED
Hello,
I also can help during my free time. I have a project of my own which has same ideas even though not fully implemented since I did not have enough time lately.
It connects to several iot hubs like wink and smartthings plus things like ip cameras, weather stations, ifttt. trying to add neato robots api as well.
Idea was to create set of reusable JavaScript api to build “smarter” control center on top of that. Data flows to influxdb/grafana for dashboards plus some custom UI to control things. Project is bit chaotic in structure but main flows are under bluemix section as it all started as cloud based node red app in bluemix :)

https://github.com/tfatykhov/WinkRedNode

Joe Morris

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Apr 23, 2018, 6:56:31 PM4/23/18
to node...@googlegroups.com
I have sent invites to everyone that has requested them.

Please let me know if I missed someone.

Thanks

Joe

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