Forwarded anonymous posting
Steve Dyer
The net.gods were not with us on this one, because a problem at hp3
spilled the original post and possible answers on the floor. I did
get two responses, for which deepest thanks. On the hope that this
experience will help others, I'm asking Steve to post my gratitude
and a couple comments. [Note: many unmarked edits.]
The first response I got was
> h...@faron.UUCP (Howard Irwin Solomon):
> Date: 18 Sep 86 19:05:29 GMT
> Date-Received: 19 Sep 86 11:34:56 GMT
who says:
> It becomes a matter of deciding how much you care for [the] person.
> This person means a good deal to you. You have to decide your own
> personal thresholds. You need to decide when to abandon ship.
The crux of the matter is, as you point out, to decide how much is
enough, to know where one's limit is.
> I think that with the previous happiness and closeness between you,
> it seems worth taking the chance and pursuing the friendship.
It helps me to do reality checks. I'm glad that it came across that I
*do* care for this man (present tense intentional), in spite of the
many problems we have had. You help me here by confirming that. As
for pursuing the matter, taking the chances, I've always thought of
myself as an inexhaustible resource, able to persevere and overcome
all obstacles by stubborness, if not by skill. But in human terms,
one is human, and there *are* limits; as you say, one must eventually
decide where they are. I'll ponder that a bit, and (obviously) the
limit issue seems to be the main one right now.
> You seem to have a good head on your shoulders; you'll
> make the right decison, I trust.
Thanks. I hope you're right. I learned to live with myself long ago,
fortunately--it has given me the strength to live with others :-)
> If you need someone to talk to drop me a line. I would be glad
> to listen.
Thanks for this too, Howard. One thing about this newsgroup is the
evident concern we see here for the happiness (whatever it is) and
welfare of others. Even though we don't know each other, we care,
don't we?!
The other response was:
> w...@milano.UUCP (Alan Wexelblat)
> Date: 18 Sep 86 19:01:15 GMT
> Date-Received: 19 Sep 86 11:42:42 GMT
He says:
> Paul, you've left out two important things:
> - how you feel towards the SO
> - relationships with others
I love the man deeply. I resent his inattention, which puts a
significant chill on things, but inasmuch as we've had some very
beautiful times and I don't know what the present problems are
for him, I'm left without closure. This is a key element; if it
were clearly over, I'd accept that easily (I can be a *big* fool,
but I've never been able to be a *total* fool! :-) As for others,
there isn't anyone in quite this department right now. I'm open
to new prospects. In any case, my local support groups are all
functioning, and there's you guys ...
> I'll try to advise you anyway. Paul, this man is seriously
> messed up! He has some basic mental/emotional problems apart
> from his indecision on sexual orientation.
I've advised therapy with no success; seems he had a bad experience in
the past with therapy. I've had three periods of therapy that made
all the difference in my own life, and am a strong advocate of
getting help when you need it. For the consumption of others, my
advice on that score is, if one therapist doesn't work out, likely
another one will. The therapeutic relationship is usually one of the
most affecting things in your life, requiring a certain chemistry to
work in the optimal way. I've been remarkably lucky in that way.
> A man that cruel needs psychiatric counseling. I think here
> the women are being more sensitive (observant?) than you.
> I suspect that you've seen the same things they have, but put
> them down to preference-based problems. That may not be right.
This was a great eye-opener for me! It's so obvious that love is
the greatest blinder there ever was, making it next-to-impossible
to see the other person as others would. Thanks a lot, this helps!
> There are three things you can do, depending on how you feel
> about him (and how much of a committment you want to make):
> 1) Cut and run. He "voted with his feet." Accept it with grace.
> 2) Recommend that he seek counseling. Help him find a professional
> who understands the problems of gays and can separate them
> from his other problems. Be a good listener; see him occasionally.
> 3) Go into counseling with him. The goal here is to resolve his
> problems so that the two of you can have a good, normal, gay
> relationship.
> The third alternative [is] not something you can start and then
> pull out of. There's a lot of potential for hurt and trouble.
> This is especially true if you are not fully `out.' Of course, the
> potential rewards are also a lot greater: satisfaction, friendship
> (possibly for life), maybe a good relationship with an SO, etc.
Well, a combination of these things with all the other insights gained
seems to be what makes sense. Here's how I see it (today, anyway):
If it's to end, what I need (for me) is adequate closure. I'll need
to talk to him to get it, probably (it always takes two). I need to
work out with myself (in advance) where my limits are and communicate
that to him in a clear but nonhostile way. On therapy for him, while
*I* feel that's *strongly* advised, I know *he* has to choose for
himself. I see couples therapy as unlikely, mainly because the notion
of couple is weak here; I could feature forming a couple with him,
though with some trepidations that would have to be worked out gingerly
over time, but I really cannot feature his getting it enough together
to do his part in anything more intense than a friendship. *That*,
indeed, is my best hoped-for outcome. (My dears, ours is a history
of making do :-)
Incidentally, I am fully out, a veritable pillar of local gay society.
Out at work too, and a pillar in that society as well. I posted
anonymously to seek a more detached view of myself. It has worked extremely
well, I think.
> Feel free to e-mail me at the address below. Or call (512)834-3586
> if you want to talk but maintain your anonymity.
Again, people are so often quite prepared to go the extra distance for
others. Thanks, Alan. [BTW, my first lover in college was named Alan,
and my favorite (straight) man at work is named Alan. Also BTW, there
have been five [!] Steves. The present problem is Stu.]
When there's something to report, I'll email to those who've helped or
post if it seems likely to benefit the broader audience. Thanks all.
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@harvard.HARVARD.EDU
{linus,wanginst,bbnccv,harvard,ima,ihnp4}!spdcc!dyer