MBTA Lawrence MA

[Dave Saums]

MBTA double-deckers in Lawrence Yard awaiting pickup.  Quite a number of CO2 tanks as well, along with about two dozen covered hoppers, which I assume are plastic pellets.  Two PAR switchers, also.

Sent from my Windows Phone

[Chop Hardenbergh]

Okay, I know Lawrence as the yard Pan Am uses to serve the Boston area. What other areas do the switchers serve, and which customers receive CO2 and plastic pellets?

Chop

On 4 Jun 2016, at 10:13, Dave Saums <dsa...@msn.com> wrote:

MBTA double-deckers in Lawrence Yard awaiting pickup.  Quite a number of CO2 tanks as well, along with about two dozen covered hoppers, which I assume are plastic pellets.  Two PAR switchers, also.

Sent from my Windows Phone

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[Allan Zecchini]

Praxair, in Tewksbury, on the Lowell Branch (PAR Freight Main) is the CO2 consignee. There are two consignees on the Lowell Hill Industrial Track. Both receive covered hoppers. One receives plastic pellets while the other received vermiculite, I believe, not 100% sure. 

There used to be a Solo Cup plant in North Andover, which closed. I don't know whether the plant has been taken over by another outfit, or not. I haven't been down in that area lately.

There was also another plastics consignee on the M&L in Lawrence but I believe that folded also, or is getting their pellets via truck. The M&L has not been traveled, for some time north of CPF-AS.

Allan

[Jeremiah F. Cahill, Jr.]

Praxair would be accepting of the CO2 cars. Located west of Lowell Junction in Tewksbury on Pan Am track.

Not sure about the plastics pellets, there's the customers on the Lowell Hill Branch that get plastics.

JFC

Sent from my iJeep Phone

O|||||O

[Chop Hardenbergh]

Thanks, Alan. Does Pan Am then run a local out of Lawrence to serve these two customers?

Chop

[Dave Saums]

Allan is correct on all fronts, as far as I have seen from watching the Lowell Industrial track in Lawrence.  At one time, that was the Lawrence & Lowell, or a similar name, when built or soon after.  It is challenging for the crew to negotiate Rte. 28 crossing in the center of Lawrence with a lot of car and truck traffic, and then work their way over to the plants mentioned.

PAR has just recently posted the remaining segment of M&L for complete abandonment.  I had made the assumption that even the last several hundred feet are out of service and have been for some time, as Allan mentions, and stopped to look on Saturday.  That plastics plant was the last consignee of any type of traffic on the branch, to the best of my knowledge.

Damn shame that the State allowed the Manchester runway extension to be built over the M&L right-of-way with absolutely no provision for any future use of that route.  There could have been a significant change in commuter traffic -- and access to the Manchester airport by rail -- if there had been just a little bit of commitment by the State of New Hampshire.  Someday, we will rue this decision as a serious failure for what could have been, to have much better choice available for airports for northeastern MA and southeastern NH residents and how to get to either Logan or Manchester.  That may sound far-fetched now, but take a look at photographs of what the B&M Haverhill station looked like in 1970, or what Lawrence has for a commuter station and parking garage today, in comparison what went before.  Ditto for Dover, Wells, Portland, Brunswick on the "Downeaster" route.

Dave S
Amesbury MA 

[Chop Hardenbergh]

Dave, I followed the debate over the runway extension, and the consideration for building a tunnel under it. I dimly recall that some provision was made for future trains - so somebody did give some thought.  But that’s clearly dead now. 

Without a LOT of money. And the Rs won’t even permit a tax increase for current repairs, let alone reviving anything. 

Chop

[Dave Saums]

Chop,

There are probably a reasonable number of us who paid attention and remember the debate.   There was discussion of the M&L, but no hard steps were taken and it is now too late.  If the argument is made again that the line was too far from the main terminal, take a look at quite a few airports in this country.  If you go by Amtrak or MARC to the BWI station stop, for example, there is a parking garage immediately adjacent to the rail station as well as a free (to the user) shuttle bus to the airport terminals, a couple of miles away.  That is routinely how to connect between the airport and Amtrak/MARC, and plenty of people do it on a daily basis and depend on it.  It is what I do every time I go to Maryland for any reason, work or personal, as I can take the shuttle bus to the terminal and all the rental car counters are right there.  Very handy and avoids entirely having to drive into Beltway traffic.
 
For Manchester, I don't think it was so much as an "Rs" problem as it was the traditional state opposition to anything connected to railroads.  I'll stand by what I said.  Yes, there are plenty of arguments that could be made about the fact that the bulk of the M&L had already been out of service (and torn up for quite a large portion) at that time, and there are busy grade crossings, but that's what bridges and eminent domain are for.  A good argument could also be made for a commuter rail route via the Lowell Line, then to Manchester.  Either approach warranted serious discussion and, maybe someday, these discussions will result in action.  In MA, it seems ironic that we are now talking about a North-South Rail Link to get from North Station by rail to South Station.  If this all sounds nuts to some, it is what it takes to try to envision the best workable concept and then work out where to build it, how to pay for it, etc.  There is a proposal from an architectural firm two floors above me as I write this, for a North Station - South Station link that would run along a different route than has been discussed before and to make it part of the provisions for how Boston is not inundated by the rising Atlantic Ocean.  Some dismiss this type of proposal as lunacy or the result of some hidden special interest that will enrich someone.  As a taxpayer, I'd much rather see millions spent on consulting contracts to determine what the best proposed routes may be, rather than simply assume that one plan in particular is the only choice.  And I'm a lifelong "R" and I vote.  I don't know that the M&L was necessarily the only route available, or the best, but that is what commissioned studies are for.

An interesting document to see is the incredible detail that went into the planning for construction in MA of what is today I-93, 3, the proposed (and ultimately unbuilt)  I-695/I-95, and all of the connecting highways and roadways in the immediate Boston suburbs that we take for granted  today as having "always been there".  They weren't.  I have a copy of that plan and it is remarkable to see how much detailed analysis went into the entire regional highway plan that was to be.  It is a good example from 1961 of what was done under then-Governor Volpe, who later was the DOT Secretary when Amtrak was created.  (If anyone cares enough and has been reading this far, the US DOT center in Cambridge is named for him.  That's where a fair amount of today's DOT planning is done for the Northeast.)  I also remember the whole debacle over the decision to NOT build I-95, even after so much land-clearing and construction had already taken place.  (Remember the ramps on the I-93 superstructure that went off into nowhere in the air? The remnants of what was supposed to be the I-95 connection in Somerville.  Don't tell everyone who lives in Somerville what their condominiums and apartments were in the path of, as they wouldn't believe it.)  About 4,500 homes still stand in Somerville and Cambrbride and Boston because of Governor Sargent's final decision to kill I-695, the extension of Rte. 2 into Boston, and end the I-95 construction that was already underway in Saugus, Revere, and pointed at Somerville.  That proved to be the critical decision in urban highway planning that led to many other decisions nationally, even though it was a decision that was considered earlier to be impossible to contemplate.

I tried talking to a man in Newburyport once about his petitions to get the former B&M Eastern Route turned into a rail trail for his morning bike trip.  I suggested that a better use for the line on a regional basis was to railbank and prepare for restoration of service over the Merrimack and into coastal New Hampshire, for commuter service at a minimum.  He was screaming at me, he got so worked up over having his pretty bike path deep-sixed; wouldn't even consider maybe having his bike path for the rest of his life (white-haired, only needed the path another ten years at best himself) and then relaying track.  That's a good example of how people keep their special interest right in front of their nose and can never see beyond.  Instead, we are spending $350 million to build a much wider commuter bridge over the Merrimack, a mile away, for I-95.  So much for working on a regional planning basis to plan for the future.  In thirty more years, we will regret all of these decisions and there will be a torrent of people demanding something better.  We can't even agree on land for more park-and-ride lots with bus services.  There will also be many more employers that have pulled out of Boston and surrounding communities, because roads like 93, 95, 495, 2, and 3 will all be unworkable for daily commuting.  Once upon a time, 495 was a ghost town and people pissed about the waste of money.  Not anymore; going west through Haverhill/Lawrence/Andover in the morning commute is no fun, and that extends on some mornings right through Lowell and well past to the west.  I used to drive that every Monday morning for several years and that was fourteen years ago, and it was a bitch.

Dave S
Amesbury MA

[Allan Zecchini]

LA-1 is usually the Lawrence yard shifter. They will typically pick up a car or two and go up the Lowell Hill. The consignees are almost next door to each other so it is about a one to two mile trip up the Lowell Hill from CPF-AS. The move isn't as easy as it once was before they started the Double Track Project. A few switches were retired at CPF-AS. Now to get to Lowell Hill they must either exit the west end of the yard at CPF-JK or the west end of the yard at CPF-FR, both of which are longer and require more time. 

LA-1 would exit the yard at CPF-JK and head west which is about 6 miles to the Praxair switch. I believe they would continue to Lowell if they had some cars for Lowell. Usually they returned to Lawrence after the Praxair delivery, however. Too bad Market Basket no longer uses rail for their Tewksbury warehouse.

Allan

[Tadd Anderson]

Hi Allan,

         Do you know on what days LA-1 goes on the Lowell Hill Branch? I have been trying to catch a train on that route for years.

Tadd

[G. Bruce Hollett]

Dave; very good comments and info on traffic and commuter woes.  I travel through that area at least once a year driving to PA and back.  Also, I’ve ridden the DownEaster into North Station a number of times.

 

Last month we started out from West Springfield on a Monday morning around 0700 so that put us on I-495 at the tail end of the morning rush.  Quite interesting to someone who is not that familiar with the area.

 

 

Thanks;

Bruce in Halifax, NS

 

Chop,

There are probably a reasonable number of us who paid attention and remember the debate.   There was discussion of the M&L, but no hard steps were taken and it is now too late.  If the argument is made again that the line was too far from the main terminal, take a look at quite a few airports in this country.  If you go by Amtrak or MARC to the BWI station stop, for example, there is a parking garage immediately adjacent to the rail station as well as a free (to the user) shuttle bus to the airport terminals, a couple of miles away.  That is routinely how to connect between the airport and Amtrak/MARC, and plenty of people do it on a daily basis and depend on it.  It is what I do every time I go to Maryland for any reason, work or personal, as I can take the shuttle bus to the terminal and all the rental car counters are right there.  Very handy and avoids entirely having to drive into Beltway traffic.
 

--

[Chop Hardenbergh]

Wow, Dave, quite a discussion I’m one who understands the need for planning, but not the millions spent for plans. Yet consultants don’t make the kind of money bankers and hedge fund managers make.

The North South Rail Link makes sense - and (to bring this back to freight) could permit a different Green Line maintenance facility location (Mirror H) which would permit retention of the Willey Track and thus a better operation for Pan Am. I don’t understand why Pan Am went along with losing the Willey Track.

Frank Sargent deserves applause for halting the Inner Ring, no question. Now - can we get enough people out of their cars to pay for more urban transit? Boston traffic IS crazy. One can only drive in or around from about 09h30 to 14h30, and then - TRAFFIC! Even out on I-495.

But Boston won’t lose employers. Everywhere else also has terrible traffic, and Boston is far too attractive to the YUPPY. I once was one.

Chop

On 6 Jun 2016, at 14:23, Dave Saums <dsa...@msn.com> wrote:

Chop,

There are probably a reasonable number of us who paid attention and remember the debate.   There was discussion of the M&L, but no hard steps were taken and it is now too late.  If the argument is made again that the line was too far from the main terminal, take a look at quite a few airports in this country.  If you go by Amtrak or MARC to the BWI station stop, for example, there is a parking garage immediately adjacent to the rail station as well as a free (to the user) shuttle bus to the airport terminals, a couple of miles away.  That is routinely how to connect between the airport and Amtrak/MARC, and plenty of people do it on a daily basis and depend on it.  It is what I do every time I go to Maryland for any reason, work or personal, as I can take the shuttle bus to the terminal and all the rental car counters are right there.  Very handy and avoids entirely having to drive into Beltway traffic.
 

For Manchester, I don't think it was so much as an "Rs" problem as it was the traditional state opposition to anything connected to railroads.  I'll stand by what I said.  Yes, there are plenty of arguments that could be made about the fact that the bulk of the M&L had already been out of service (and torn up for quite a large portion) at that time, and there are busy grade crossings, but that's what bridges and eminent domain are for.  A good argument could also be made for a commuter rail route via the Lowell Line, then to Manchester.  Either approach warranted serious discussion and, maybe someday, these discussions will result in action.  In MA, it seems ironic that we are now talking about a North-South Rail Link to get from North Station by rail to South Station.  If this all sounds nuts to some, it is what it takes to try to envision the best workable concept and then work out where to build it, how to pay for it, etc.  There is a proposal from an architectural firm two floors above me as I write this, for a North Station - South Station link that would run along a different route than has been discussed before and to make it part of the provisions for how Boston is not inundated by the rising Atlantic Ocean.  Some dismiss this type of proposal as lunacy or the result of some hidden special interest that will enrich someone.  As a taxpayer, I'd much rather see millions spent on consulting contracts to determine what the best proposed routes may be, rather than simply assume that one plan in particular is the only choice.  And I'm a lifelong "R" and I vote.  I don't know that the M&L was necessarily the only route available, or the best, but that is what commissioned studies are for.

An interesting document to see is the incredible detail that went into the planning for construction in MA of what is today I-93, 3, the proposed (and ultimately unbuilt)  I-695/I-95, and all of the connecting highways and roadways in the immediate Boston suburbs that we take for granted  today as having "always been there".  They weren't.  I have a copy of that plan and it is remarkable to see how much detailed analysis went into the entire regional highway plan that was to be.  It is a good example from 1961 of what was done under then-Governor Volpe, who later was the DOT Secretary when Amtrak was created.  (If anyone cares enough and has been reading this far, the US DOT center in Cambridge is named for him.  That's where a fair amount of today's DOT planning is done for the Northeast.)  I also remember the whole debacle over the decision to NOT build I-95, even after so much land-clearing and construction had already taken place.  (Remember the ramps on the I-93 superstructure that went off into nowhere in the air? The remnants of what was supposed to be the I-95 connection in Somerville.  Don't tell everyone who lives in Somerville what their condominiums and apartments were in the path of, as they wouldn't believe it.)  About 4,500 homes still stand in Somerville and Cambridge and Boston because of Governor Sargent's final decision to kill I-695, the extension of Rte. 2 into Boston, and end the I-95 construction that was already underway in Saugus, Revere, and pointed at Somerville.  That proved to be the critical decision in urban highway planning that led to many other decisions nationally, even though it was a decision that was considered earlier to be impossible to contemplate.

I tried talking to a man in Newburyport once about his petitions to get the former B&M Eastern Route turned into a rail trail for his morning bike trip.  I suggested that a better use for the line on a regional basis was to railbank and prepare for restoration of service over the Merrimack and into coastal New Hampshire, for commuter service at a minimum.  He was screaming at me, he got so worked up over having his pretty bike path deep-sixed; wouldn't even consider maybe having his bike path for the rest of his life (white-haired, only needed the path another ten years at best himself) and then relaying track.  That's a good example of how people keep their special interest right in front of their nose and can never see beyond.  Instead, we are spending $350 million to build a much wider commuter bridge over the Merrimack, a mile away, for I-95.  So much for working on a regional planning basis to plan for the future.  In thirty more years, we will regret all of these decisions and there will be a torrent of people demanding something better.  We can't even agree on land for more park-and-ride lots with bus services.  There will also be many more employers that have pulled out of Boston and surrounding communities, because roads like 93, 95, 495, 2, and 3 will all be unworkable for daily commuting.  Once upon a time, 495 was a ghost town and people pissed about the waste of money.  Not anymore; going west through Haverhill/Lawrence/Andover in the morning commute is no fun, and that extends on some mornings right through Lowell and well past to the west.  I used to drive that every Monday morning for several years and that was fourteen years ago, and it was a bitch.

Dave S
Amesbury MA