MLO: visual month and year view
que...@gmail.com
This is something that I find lacking in MLO: visual aids. Ideally, I'd
like to see a full screen view with a full year calendar where each
month displays the deadline dates marked, and a texbox under it with a
(maybe color-coded) description of each task.
That'd help to plan things that take up longer periods (e.g., writing a
paper).
This is something that most applications do not provide. E.g., google
calendar shows a month view at most.
I'd like to have that in MLO too, but I can see that it is
functionality that may be difficult to implement and already available
elsewhere (e.g., outlook).
An example of what I mean (sorry, in spanish), is this national
hollyday calendar:
http://www.euroresidentes.com/calendario/calendario_laboral_2006.htm
What do you think?
Andrey Tkachuk (MLO)
Mark Levison
I will think it over. Any comments from others?
I've asked for something similiar before. However rather than be specific I will just say - I would like a calendar view with support for week/month/months (2-3)/year (that maybe a stretch). with some information about what tasks start/end of any given day.
Thanks
Mark
lifeaddict
like to see a graphical view (day, week, month, months (3), etc.
accompanied by text as described above with an interface like Outlook,
or Sunbird. I don't know why but I function so much better when I can
view things graphically as opposed to text.
Steve Wynn
rectified with the use of Colour Coding, Flags etc within the
Outline/ToDo list. Not a big fan of adding Calendars for visual
representation as I think it would stretch the functionality too far
from the main core components of the software. I would sooner see some
sort of MLO/Outlook Calendar Integration or something similar.
If some sort of visual representations where to be added, I would like
to see visual representations of how many tasks have been
completed/outstanding per place/context. How much effort has been
undertaken from one place/context to the next. That sort of thing,
things that are slightly different and enhance the functionality of the
core components of MLO. Rather than adding functionality that can be
utilised in existing software.
Regards
Steve
lifeaddict
actually an intrinsic aspect of To-Do functionality. Take a look at
Life Balance for example. And the last thing I want to see is
integration with Outlook. Even though I use both Outlook and MLO, I
ran into so many problems early on with integration between the two
that I no longer bother with trying
cliv...@telefonica.net
additional pane or tab behind the main windows. I also use Outlook less
and less except for email and contacts. Having read of some of the
problems with integrating MLO with Outlook I have not yet tried this
and find I am depending on MLO for almost everything.
que...@gmail.com
integration.
lifeaddict
helpful to see historical completed tasks as well as future scheduled
tasks. One idea might be to have a timeline, which displays tasks by
month such as in the following example from the BBC of the internet
timeline
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5243862.stm
but take it a step further and allow users to drill down to a week and
even to a day. This would be especially helpful if you could set your
preferences with regard to what tasks get displayed at what level. For
example, being able to display all tasks tied to monthly goals at the
month level, but being able to drill down to see all tasks scheduled or
completed on a given day.
Niels
think the program is fantastic). I work at an institution that
discourages employees from using Outlook (because it is so vulnerable
to virus attacks). The supported software, Thunderbird, does not
include calendar functionality. As a short term solution it would be
extremely helpful if there was a calendar flag or something of the sort
in MLO so that one could quickly see (i.e., using visual cues) what
meetings are coming up. A full fleged calendar, similar to the simple
one in Life Balance, would be ideal.
Niels
Shoshi
would be very useful and very much appreciated.
Simon Coles
For me, getting appointments to sync with Outlook is critical. I work
for large corporates, who nearly all use Outlook for group calendaring.
Generally my diary is very full and I find it harder to use MLO
effectively whilst my to-do list is missing all my appointment
commitments. I expect many MLO users are in a similar situation.
I would ideally like to see appointments as a special category of tasks
in MLO, displayed in the outline and to-do list and preferably visually
highlighted as appointments as Steve Wynn suggested. As they get
closer to their due date & time, they should increase in priority until
due appointments are at the top of the to-do list. The appointment
sync detailed by Bob Pankratz in his original paper (#F28) is what I
have been waiting for. Andrey - an indication of when this will be
progressed would be welcome, it seems to have been in 'next version'
for some time now!
I can see that a graphical calendar in MLO would be very useful to
others, particularly those who do not have other diary tools or who
wish to move off Outlook. For those of us who's companies use Outlook
heavily, however, a separate MLO calendar would not be a good solution.
If one is implemented, I would like an option for hiding or disabling
it.
Thanks,
Simon
Simon G Upton
tool to assist with goal setting. I am thinking of something like:
- Zooming into the Calendar from a task that is an annual goal
- From the calendar (right-click on the relevant day?) using rapid-task
entry to create a monthly goal that is due on that day
The advantage of having the calendar for me would be to help visualize
where the subtask would go ("when do I want to have this done by")
while being able to see other tasks, holidays?, oher marked periods??
The same approach could also obviously work breaking a monthly to
weekly.
Add to this (as I saw in another post) I would like to see a quarterly
goal - for me the gap between annual and monthly is too large
Thanks, Simon
que...@gmail.com
calendar. The advantages: you can share your calendars, inport/export
to other software/pda, make them public, etc.
To replicate all that functionality would be a lot of coding.
The disadvantages:
You need to be online to see your calendar.
You are limited to the functionality that google provides.
Your calendar may be spammed (?) if left open to public?
Tomasz
I've been using MLO for a while to "hold" my tasks but now that I have
many of them I've realized that I can schedule many tasks to start and
end at the same time, all with maximum effort required and MLO does not
complain. If I want to organize my life, I need to "SEE" where I'm
messing up by committing to do too many things at the same time.
Having a calendar or a time line display showing the task start dates,
end dates would help a lot.
Here is my idea of how this timeline could work:
1. The key is to have MLO allocate time for the tasks on the time line.
Ideal situation is when only one task is being scheduled for any given
time. When a task is overdue, it is moved forward in time(MLO already
does this, it keeps reminding me) and if there is a task already
scheduled for current time, the MLO should bring that up as a confict
for me to resolve (for example, move one of the tasks to the next
available spot).
2. The way to visualize this time line is as a line with dates below
it, tasks shown as rectangles on top of it.
For tasks with end or start times but without duration, the timeline
would show only a marker, pointing left for end times, pointing right
for start times.
Tasks with only duration set would be simply put on timeline whereever
there is enough time for them(they float/slide along the timeline).
Tasks with start time and duration set can slide to the right(to the
future).
Tasks with end time and duration set can slide to the right only to the
point when they become overdue at which point they become a conflict
which user has to resolve(by moving one or another to next available
spot or saying that I can do them both at the same time).
Tasks with start time, end time and duration set can slide within those
limits and the time required defines the size/length of it on the time
line.
3. A new field might be needed for the tasks, one that indicates that a
task allows other tasks to be done at the same time. Effort might be
reused for this too.
4. When task is done, it would be shown under the time line.
Just my 2 cents... :D
VgnFrnd
something more intelligent to say in response. I've thought of a
display similar to the one that you describe as a part of
MyLifeMotivator for the purpose of showing me on what I have worked in
the past, but I had never considered a graphical display like this for
future-planning. For me, your suggestion raises the question of to what
degree is MLO a scheduling program, and to what degree is it a to-do
list manager? I agree that we need to find a way to interface MLO
effectively with a calendar, but should MLO become a time-management
program?
I don't know.
-RichardM
***
For health:
http://www.goveg.com/veganism_health.asp
For the environment:
http://www.goveg.com/veganism_environment.asp
For human rights:
http://www.goveg.com/veganism_human.asp
For non-harming:
http://www.goveg.com/veganism_welfare.asp
wowi
automatic positioning of tasks. But I think it would be a great
planning aid if you could move the tasks along the time line and all
date information is adapted accordingly. I'm not sure what the
differences between to-do list manager and time-manager is - but I
think MLO is definitely a tool which should support the basic planning
of tasks. And for that, in my opinion visual aids are always helpful
and desirable. There are other things which also would support the
planning like a better differentiation between committed, active and
potential (maybe/someday) projects/tasks in the outline - but that is
another story.
Wolfgang
Simon Coles
doing this dynamically for just the items shown in the to-do list, based on
the active filter?
Tomasz
me, so I would suggest this timeline to be included at the To-Do tab
and therefore it would show only tasks that meet the filter
criteria(those applicable for selected place).
To comment on previous post regarding automatic positions of tasks, I
would say that this isn't a new functionality - today, if I don't set
specific start time and end time, the task is "out there" and MLO might
as well throw it at the first available spot or after last
scheduled(with specified times) task. If that task isn't completed at
that time, and that time where it was placed has already passed, the
MLO will simply let it slide/move forward... To cut the story short,
these "sliding"/"floating" tasks could be shown as suggestions (in
different color perhaps) when they might get done(because MLO sees free
time slot for it).
The overdue tasks that still need to be done will show up at current
time, above other tasks if there are any for the current time. This
would be yet another form of a reminder that a task still needs to be
done.
Also, I'm trying to stay away from suggesting MLO to adapt calendaring
functions - there are plenty of calendars already. This time line would
simply show what is already in MLO. And since we can't do anything for
things in the past, the time line might simply start at "now" because
all done tasks are done(so we don't need to see them) and current,
future and overdue task are all shown - which is what we care about,
right...
VgnFrnd
advantage to having this kind of timeline display would be. Now it just
seems merely like a more visually flashy version of the to-do list that
we already have without adding any additional functionality. Is that
right, or am I missing the point?
lifeaddict
calendars that are cleanly and seamlessly integrated with MLO. IMHO, a
To-Do list is of limited value if you cannot easily and graphically
view your obligations, commitments, and objectives for a given day,
week, or month and balance your schedule as required.
I understand those for whom the existing integration with Outlook is
sufficient but there are far more of us for whom Outlook is not
suitable but for whom a calendar view is essential functionality that
we desperately need.
que...@gmail.com
lifeaddict wrote:
> You are right, there are plenty of calendars, but there are no
> calendars that are cleanly and seamlessly integrated with MLO. IMHO, a
> To-Do list is of limited value if you cannot easily and graphically
> view your obligations, commitments, and objectives for a given day,
> week, or month and balance your schedule as required.
Exactly. Is like having a car with no wheels, and poiting at the fact
that there exist many wheels sitting around the car, with noone doing
anything to properly combining them into a far more usable result.
Maybe a car without wheels is not a good metaphor for MLO without
visual calendar/timeline, since MLO is plenty useful already. But I can
still see how adding visual tools would make it more efficient.
Steve Wynn
application, it is far more than that. I agree for most ToDo list
software, the limited options you have available such as simple
priority coding and date ordering, then you do need a Calendar to
organise the information into some sort of reasonable format. But with
MLO and the various priority options, goal settings, effort required
fields, I actually think the lack of a Calendar is to some extent an
advantage. Why? Because it almost forces you into working in a way
that is different to your normal type of ToDo list application.
I agree visually MLO needs improvement, you need to be able to see a
clearer structure. But this can/could be improved with Colour Coding,
Flags, new Outline/ToDo list views and other means not necessarily via
a Calendar. It has been mentioned that Calendars are intrinsic to ToDo
functionality, well personally I disagree with that and I think it
depends on the approach you take. For people who adopt a GTD type of
approach, Calendars are more used for reference, must-do items for the
day, appointments and reminders/ticklers they go onto the Calendar
nothing else. So from that type of perspective it doesn't really matter
what Calendar is being used. I also think to some that Contacts will be
intrinsic to Calendar functionality for scheduling purposes, so do
Contacts need to be added to MLO?
My fear is that MLO will start to turn into some sort of PIM type of
application which I think will detract from its core strengths. There
are plenty of Calendar programs around and perhaps integration into
various ones might be an idea. But personally if Visual Representations
are to be used, I would like to see something new/inventive within MLO
that adds to it uniqueness in the market. Not just the addition of a
Calendar.
Regards
Steve
Jason Bates
what the purpose of this application is, and where it's boundaries
should be. Including features that everyone requests has to be balanced
against a vision of what MLO will become in the future, otherwise
software entropy takes over, and MLO will become chaotic, bloated, and
mediocre, trying to be all things to all people... So,
What does MLO want to be when it grows up?
Would it sprawl across the PIM arena?
Would it focus on a core functionality, with great interfaces to other
best of breed components?
What would those interfaces be?
Is it a 'planning' system, or an 'execution' system, or both?
What is the core strength for MLO that draws so many people to it?
How will it look and feel when it hits version 5.0 ??
If MLO is to grow, like a young sapling it needs a stake to grow up, a
vision, something to measure feature requests against, and prioritize
next steps.... then, community driven ideas on how to achieve this can
align and help develop something that improves on the excellent
application that already exists, rather than pulling it in a million
directions.
(goodness me, I'm waxing lyrical this morning... must be too much
coffee! ;o)
Have you got the vision yet Andrey?
Jason.
VgnFrnd
regret seeing MLO turn into just another PIM with calendar, contacts,
e-mail, etcetera. From the development and marketing perspective, there
is a slippery slope: The more features that get added, the more users
want those additional features to be more robust, which in turn demands
the addition of additional features. Eventually, we'd end up with an
Outlook clone.
I, again for one, don't use calendars much except for fixed
appointments. For me, trying to schedule tasks would defeat the purpose
of having a flexible system that remains in sync with the ever-shifting
demands of my day. While I do agree that it would be nice to have more
flexibility in MLO's ability to visually handle the data that it already
holds, I would begin with more basic features like: 1) start dates
without due dates, 2) a snooze function for due tasks and 3) color
coding of tasks.
lifeaddict
a graphical calendar, timeline, or other visual aid is an intrinsic
necessity for goal and task planning and those for whom a list format
is sufficient.
The people satisfied with a list format are trying to persuade those of
us who are more visual that we really don't need a graphical
presentation. Since MLO already satisfies their needs they are content
and would like to see development efforts focused on adding
functionality that would make the list approach more effective.
However, it is obvious that there is an equally large or larger number
of people who are spatial/visual thinkers for whom a graphical format
would be a huge boon that has absolutely nothing to do with turning the
product into "into just another PIM with calendar, contacts, e-mail,
etcetera".
Adding a calendar or other graphical method of viewing the To-Do
functionality is not going to dilute the product but expand it to
encompass users who think in a different manner than those of you who
are solely list oriented. Despite its other shortcomings, Life Balance
recognized this need and incorporated a calendar accordingly.
Steve Wynn
development wise. People are going to want synchronization with
existing Calendar Applications, PPC users of MLO are going to require
synchronization to the PPC. I can just see that a lot of development
time is going to be required in order to get something that is going to
be worth using.
What is required at the end of the day? A Day view, a Week View, Work
Week View, Month View, Quarterly View, Year View. Time slots, 5
minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes. Colour Coding, Flags,
Categories, Alarms, Appointments, Events, Anniversaries,Tasks, Goals,
Group Scheduling, Import/Export options. Some sort of Contact
integration.
To me it sounds like it is probably a really large job, development
wise, to get something equal to the Calendar programs that are
currently available. Unless of course there is some sort of Calendar
Component that can be easily bolted into MLO?
I totally agree that MLO needs to be more visual, I would even consider
myself to be a visual thinker. But there are a lot of existing products
that can be utilised in order to accomplish that. MLO I think is on the
right tracks with Mind Map integration, Outlook integration etc.
Personally I don't even like Outlook I only started using it because
of its integration with MLO. I don't think Outlook is a good email,
calendar, task or contact package but I have based everything around
MLO so in order to enhance my usage of MLO I have switched to using
Outlook.
Life Balance is a good package, but I didn't see it enhanced by the
addition of what seemed to me to be a very simple Calendar. Perhaps it
has improved since, it has been a year or so since I last used it?
Where Life Balance was good I think, visual wise, was by giving you a
graphical representation of where effort was being spent via a Pie
Chart approach. That to me was a graphical/visual representation that
really enhanced Life Balance. I would love to see something similar in
MLO. I am all for improving the visual look and feel of the package,
and seeing if there are ways of doing that. But again they need to be
things that are different and unique enhancements to MLO.
MLO is a task Outliner, the best on the market. Anything that can be
done to improve the visual representation of the Outline, and the
task/ToDo list I am all for, 100%. That's personally where I would
like to see development time focused, improving on the core
functionality of the Outliner Program. I don't think adding a Calendar
will necessarily dilute the product, but it will possibly dilute the
development time on key/core components. Again, unless there is a bolt
on Calendar component that can easily be added to MLO, I don't know?
As Jason already has mentioned it really depends on Andrey and his
vision of MLO's future. If Andrey is still unsure after all of our
ranting, then perhaps it is time for democracy to play a part and have
some sort of simple yes/no vote?
Andrey any comments?
Regards
Steve
Tomasz
we want and we already have posts suggesting that it should not be
added...
My impression of the original post that started the discussion was that
there is a need/request for visual aids. I have contributed what I
personaly would appreciate in MLO. To avoid further confusion, I would
like to now clarify what my proposal was about:
1. Its not a request for calendar - I agree with Steve that having a
calendar is trouble for both developer(s) and users. One can keep
fixing and enhancing it forever...
2. Its not a request for a new way of entering "data"
3. It does not require a change in the way we use MLO
Bottom line: The whole purpose was to allow us to see what is in MLO
already and specificaly how it looks like from time perspective.
A simple usage scenario would be:
1. A request for task comes into my Inbox (what ever that is, not MLO)
2. I enter it into MLO and set its properties (due date, time required
to complete,...)
3. I look at my time line(or MLO suggests to look at it) and I see that
I have bunch of small tasks already scheduled(with non-negotiable
dates) and there is not enough free time available to do this new task.
Now I can do some planning of what to do and when.
Without the time line, I think I would have to check every task I have
on the list to check if I will be able to do them all, including the
new one.
Do you agree with this statement, or am I missing some existing feature
in MLO that allows me to do this without too much clicking?
Also, please keep in mind that I have over fifty tasks(next actions in
terms of GTD) in the ToDo tab and all my tasks either have their own
due dates or belong to projects that have due dates. Because of that,
the planning of what to do, when and how much more I can handle is
important.
VgnFrnd
points:
"Steve Wynn" <stephe...@tiscali.co.uk> said:
> I totally agree that MLO needs to be more visual, I would even consider
> myself to be a visual thinker. But there are a lot of existing products
> that can be utilised in order to accomplish that. MLO I think is on the
> right tracks with Mind Map integration, Outlook integration etc.
> MLO is a task Outliner, the best on the market. Anything that can be
> done to improve the visual representation of the Outline, and the
> task/ToDo list I am all for, 100%. That's personally where I would
> like to see development time focused, improving on the core
> functionality of the Outliner Program.
-RichardM
VgnFrnd
Does the time available filter in the to-do list help?
Tomasz
the time available filter helps when I'm deciding which of the tasks to
do and it serves different purpose then what the suggested time line
would do. It was aimed at showing how the tasks are arranged(based on
their start and end times) in the day/week/xyz time period. I wouldn't
expect it to replace any of the existing functionality, like the
filter, since its more-less a view of the data already in the MLO.
GT
about the right thing to do at any given moment; however, it is fairly
bad for planning and scheduling, since it doesn't let you know how much
time you have commited in a given time period. When the number of task
grows, the risk is seriuos that some weeks will be completely
overcrowded with tasks. The current outliner doesn't help much: even if
you arrange tasks by due date, you miss a clear picture of how much
work you have to do next week.
A good example of task outliner can be found in the RPM software by
Tony Robbins, which I tried for some time (I quit using that because
its interface was too clumsy, and more important, because development
was too slow). A very nice feature of the RPM software is its
timeline-based task outliner for project design. It is an excel-like
table which shows, for each week, how much time is allocated for a
project and for the task that compose this project.
Perhaps MLO's developers (Andrey, are you there??) should consider
implementing something like that.
Joe
VgnFrnd
I was pretty sure that you were already using the time available filter,
but I thought I would mention it just in case. I understand your
proposal for a graphical display much more clearly now.
Thanks,
Tomasz
Not that I would suggest this kind of sofisticated timeline to be
implemented in MLO but this for sure is one very well done timeline
widget. I like the way the two bands scroll, the automatic resizing of
displayed range based on number of events, single events or ranges can
be added and so on... very nice.
See for yourself and check out the docs and howto's as well - the ease
of use on both user and developer side is amazing.
Again, I'm posting this here just for your information/inspiration...
Main page: http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/
Wiki : http://simile.mit.edu/wiki2/Timeline
que...@gmail.com
Also, MLO does have some visual aids.. if you go to places/hours, there
is a week preview of say busness hours, etc.
This could be extended to month and year.
A very nice application that plots time allocation (but in retrospect!)
is
http://www.neuber.com/timeanalyzer/index.html
Tthere is an option to 'add notes to day view' that could be used to
keep a kind of log of finished tasks.
The 'day view' in '14 days' is my favorite to look at when I wonder
where my time went recently. And the fact that it shows an average time
online is terribly useful. :)
This is not for planning ahead, but to track your time. The equivalent
thing for MLO would be to do the same kind of gant charts for planning
. What I like (and think could be good inspiration for MLO's developer)
is the flexibility and fifferent colors/views)... one can zoom, etc.
what do you think?
RichardM
As I've said before, i my opinion MLO should remain focused on its core
functionality, including task-level project outlining and to-do lists.
Additional functionaity can be obtained through robust interfaces
between MLO and and programs like Outlook and MindManager. But I agree
that there is a need in some cases to visually display MLO's task data
in order to promote improved scheduling.
I did a little hunting and discovered an Outlook plug-in called
Taskline. I am sufficiently impressed with it such that I have begun
my trail evaluation. I think it is a good example of how MLO can be
used to almost-seamlessly integrate with existing solutions and leave
full-function calendar integration to the other guys. You can learn
more about it here:
http://www.taskline.com/default.asp
In a nutshell, here is what I am doing with the program:
1) I sync my tasks unidirectionally from MLO to Outlook.
2) I click on the taskline icon in Outlook to request that it integrate
my tasks into Outlook's calendar according to: a) task priority and
b)time available. Task priorities were already set by MLO. Task times
were also already set in MLO (or assigned within Taskline); Taskline
considers pre-existing Outlook appointments as 'hard landscape' and
'flows' tasks as calendar items around them.
Thus far, I am throttling Taskline's workload by assigning durations to
only my highest priority tasks. Taskline does not schedule tasks
without durations specified.
3) Viola: My daily schedule is now populated with both hard landscape
and tasks. When I sync to my PPC, its calendar also contains the
updated schedule.
Taskline includes significantly more functionality than I have
described. For example, tasks may be 'split' over several available
timeslots if their expected duration exceeds the currently available
open timeslots. Taskline can also recalcuate its recommendations and
graphic displays with a single click whenever necessary to adjust for
real life divergences between what the calendar recommends and what
real life demands.
If anyone is interested, I'll keep you posted on my impressions as my
trial continues. But already it looks to me like a solid solution to
several of the requests for additional functionality that have been
expressed here.
-RichardM
lifeaddict
complex, much like Outlook. Again, it requires integration with
Outlook and utilizes the Outlooks interface which is quite different
from MLO.
I fail to see how providing a graphical, visual tool for organizing and
managing your To-Do list detracts from the core functionality of MLO.
Instead, I believe it only enhances it. Furthermore, all of us can use
this functionality if it is contained in MLO while only a fraction of
the MLO user base can and do integrate with Outlook.
VgnFrnd
things on the planet. I don't mind it much one way or the other, except
insofar as it enjoys wide support. I happen to have it and use it
already for e-mail and hard-landscape calendaring, so MLO's sync
capabilities with Outook opens up a convenient opportunity to use
Taskline. But because I haven't used Taskline for long, I haven't yet
encountered its limitations. All software has limitations, so I presume
that I'll meet up with Taskline's sooner or later.
I'm not set against seeing MLO improve its graphic interface or display
functionality. I merely have this nagging suspicion that other
applications are already accomplishing much of what we are discussing
here and a concern that if MLO tries to reach too widely it will become
mediocre at a lot of things instead of remain the best at one.
Steve Wynn
> I fail to see how providing a graphical, visual tool for organizing and
> managing your To-Do list detracts from the core functionality of MLO.
> Instead, I believe it only enhances it. Furthermore, all of us can use
> this functionality if it is contained in MLO while only a fraction of
> the MLO user base can and do integrate with Outlook.
I don't see how Calendars, Timelines etc actually do organize or manage
a ToDo list. All the relevant options for organizing/managing a ToDo
list are already built into MLO, Start Date, Due Date, Lead Times etc.
On top of that you have Goals, Importance, Effort, Time available etc.
So where does having a Graphical Timeline or Calendar improve on the
existing ToDo list?
Can you explain how visual tools will help manage/improve the ToDo
list? Because perhaps I am missing something? All I can see is a
different way of displaying the existing/same data. A way that
personally I don't see it is going to make me any more productive, but
then like I say I might be missing something.
Regards
Steve
Tomasz
timeline(not a calendar, that we don't seem to need in MLO)
representation of tasks in MLO help.
Let's look at an example:
Situation:
You have number of projects and number of tasks. Let's say 30 tasks in
total.
A new task comes in and you need to do it and find out when it will be
done.
How do you find out?
Solution 1: You decide upfront when and schedule it in MLO (MLO does
not let you know that there are already X tasks due on that day and Y
on the day before and Z on day after...)
Solution 2: MLO has a timeline of existing tasks - you look at it and
see a spot - now you can make an "educated" decission on when it can be
done and schedule it.
Solution 3: MLO has a timeline and can even find a spot for new task.
If you have properly set dates for all you tasks upto this point, you
can probably trust the MLO.
Another example:
Situation: You have your normal load of tasks, its 5th in the month and
your team member/boss asks you if you can take care of duty XYZ between
10th and 15th.
Solution 1: You know all your tasks and don't need MLO's help you
simply say yes/no.
Solution 2: MLO has a timeline and you look at how it looks like
between 10th and 15th. Keep in mind that it would display tasks that
have started before 10th and ongoing projects. When seeing the entries
on the timeline, you can tell what shifting your focus for 5 days will
do to your commitments.
Solution 3: MLO has a timeline, you schedule a task for XYZ starting on
10th till 15th. Then you look at the timeline again to see what the
next working day after 15th looks like after a new task was put there.
Solution 4: MLO has a timeline and can even find a spot for new task.
You can then respond saying, yes/no and provide dates when you will be
able to fulfill it if not on the days asked for.
Note: The solution 3 in the first example and 4 in second one is
assuming MLO has the ability to find a spot for new task - which would
be a new feature.
Does any of this sound useful? If yes, please say so(write a response).
If no, but you can provide a better solution/suggestion, write a
response. If not and you don't want any of this in MLO, then I'm not
sure if your response would help us, but it is your decission to
contribute or not to this discussion.(I guess I'll get in trouble for
being honest here)
Anyway, let's keep this discussion going. I think we can improve the
great MLO.
My 2 cents about the Outlook.
Not everyone uses it(that has been said already) and even if we were,
we would be using two products to look/work with the same data. Unless
one is already using Outlook for other things, suggesting to use it for
looking at tasks visaualy is kind of strange, IMHO.
VgnFrnd
I can see how the timeline that you are proposing could be helpful.
que...@gmail.com
I think your examples make a clear point and I'm certainly assigning
things to busy areas of my month without knowing.
This would be an useful addition IMHO.
Steve Wynn
I will just lay out my last few comments and then withdraw from the
discussion.
I think the differences so far have been based more on working
methodology rather than differences with regards to visual orientation.
What you have described really depends on how you use MLO. I only
date/time reminders, deadlines. Everything else is undated, but
prioritised. A Timeline in my instance would act like nothing more than
a rather useless Calendar.
For people that utilise a Daily/Weekly ToDo list type of approach where
the majority of tasks are date/timed etc. Then yes I can see that a
Timeline would certainly be advantageous.
For me personally what you have described almost sounds like being in
the realms of a different product. A Task Scheduler and not a Task
Outliner. Sounds almost like a focus shift from the majority of the
planning being done in the Outline to the planning being done in the
Timeline.
Now I don't mind if a Timeline is added. But if a Timeline is added it
would be useful to have the facility to make sure it was hidden for
those that didn't want to use it.
Again personally, I would sooner see development time being spent on
visually improving the existing Outline/ToDo list with Colour Coding,
Flags, filtered views, etc.
Regards
Steve
VgnFrnd
que...@gmail.com
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifehack/hard-and-soft-landscapes-calendar-vs-reminders.html
It's not that MLO should be interpreter as a reminder only, but
sometimes it works that way (certainly, some people view the outline as
suggestions of things to do).
Also, MLO now has the popup/mail reminder functionality too.
Randall
ordering functions in creating their do-lists, and I enjoy that feature
to a degree. But if GTD remains part of the core design philosophy,
then both David Allen and some of his coaches warn about going beyond
maintaining lists or letting software schedule tasks.
One of Allen's coaches discusses the way that he uses LifeBalance (some
similarities to MLO) on the Mac, and he specifically discusses many
features of the program that he feels are not worth the effort they
require.
http://www.davidco.com/coaches_corner/Robert_Peake/article54.html
Allen also warns against putting most to-do items on calendars. And one
of his coaches warns that "rational decision models have an uncanny
knack of producing results that human decision-makers find
unconvincing."
http://www.davidco.com/coaches_corner/James_Daniel/article49.html
Every program that I have tried that attempted to prioritize my actions
based on some rational weighting system (including MLO) has produced
useful to-do lists, but in no case did the list order match what I
would have chosen intuitively. I could, of course, change the weighting
system to get the list order that I want, but it is precisely that kind
of effort that James Daniel suggests that people go through to get
rational systems to produce the results that they intuitively want.
If MLO is going to add features that increasingly attempt to allow the
software to rationally decide how I should spend my day, then I would
stay with the program only if I could ignore those features. I looked
at one program that allowed you to schedule your shower, breakfast, and
toothbrushing into your day. (I like being organized, but I'm not
obsessive-compulsive.) As Robert Peake discusses in the article above,
I use MLO (as he uses LifeBalance) as a superb to-do list manager, and
will continue to use it only so long as I can ignore any added features
that might attempt to schedule my day.
Randall Shinn
VgnFrnd
increasingly sought to leverage fewer of its features but to greater
advantage. My nested outlines are becoming shallower. My places are
becoming fewer. The number of tasks that I assign time durations, due
dates, importance, urgency or any other qualifier are becoming less and
less. I still find MLO indispensable, but I am increasingly learning to
tame its complexity.
Late last Fall, I stopped using MLO. I did not pick it back up again
until late last Winter. Why? Precisely because I was experiencing what
Randall already described: I had tweaked and refined and specified
MLO's parameters for each of my tasks to the utmost. I had lists that
were elegant and refined. But in real life I was ignoring them.
Eventually I came to realize that there were two reasons for this.
First, I was spending so much time grooming my lists that I was wasting
energy that I could have been using to get things done. But second and
more importantly, by attempting to program MLO sufficiently to the point
where I thought it would be telling me what I should be doing next, in
reality I was quashing my intuition. Last Fall, I realized that I 'just
knew' what I needed to do next and that if I did only what I had told
MLO to tell me to do, I would not in fact be acting according to what I
knew, intuitively, had to be done. So I abandoned the program for a
season.
Now that I'm back, I find that I still benefit from almost all of MLO's
rich array of features, but only when I apply them highly selectively to
only those precise tasks that really need to receive special coding.
I realize that all of what I have said here is anecdote and falls under
the "user error" category rather than "program error," but I wanted to
second Randall's observation that in my experience, it is wrong-headed
to let a program tell me what to do.
I use MLO to track projects and generate next action lists, from which I
choose - intuitively moment by moment - where to expend my life energy.
wowi
define an exact schedule for the coming weeks or to let a tool create
that automatically. I tried to do that a couple of times but always
failed. Either things have changed, so the planning was obsolete, or I
had planned the durations of tasks not exact enough, or I simply did
something different from what my schedule told me. And it took me an
awful lot of time to tell the system how it should schedule my tasks
(which sometimes is welcome to avoid to do other things). Therefore I
try to determine the projects which will be addressed in the coming
week and to separate them from those projects that have to be deferred
to a later point in time.
To do this, a basic requirement is an easy switch of projects between
different states, e.g. from active to passive (or someday/maybe). And
in spite of all the nice features of MLO which we all love, this is not
so easy to do, unfortunately.
I would like to see the effect that passive projects and their tasks
disappear from the to do list AND from the outline (at least from a
specific view of the outline). In addition, it should be possible to
define a date when the project gets active again, both in the outline
view of active projects and in the todo list.
The capability for doing this are spread over many features of MLO:
- You can mark tasks as invisible in the to list - but this does not
make them invisible in the outline
- you can give projects specific status information - but this does not
have effects on the to do list and is only used to sort them in the
project outline view - and here you loose the context of the project
which often is very helpful - I like to work from the outline much more
than from the todo list
- you can give tasks a start date (unfortunately only in combination
with a due date) - but this does not have any effect on the outline
visibility of the task / project
- other people suggest to have a specific part of the outline reserved
for active projects and another one for passive projects - but then you
loose your basic organisation of projects and tasks or have to
duplicate the whole tree.
If we could get an improvement here, MLO would become even more useful
for me: It would allow to easily keep the lists shorter and support
weekly reviews and the overall planning of the coming near future.
And if there are further visual aids to help me to see easily what I
have deferred or put to specific times in the future this is welcomed
and helpful. As a support for the basic purpose of the system: help me
to focus on what I feel is important.
Wolfgang
VgnFrnd
:)
James Murphy
>
> All I can see is a
> different way of displaying the existing/same data.
Which can be very helpful - a different perspective sometimes allows
one to see things that weren't obvious before.
> A way that
> personally I don't see it is going to make me any more productive,
That's subjective (and perfectly reasonable) but objectively might it
help others to be more productive (not always an easy question to
answer) and if so is it worth the development effort.
> then like I say I might be missing something.
That we all have differing needs and that what works for you may not
work (so well) for others...?
--
Murph
Tomasz
myself.
>From the above posts, I can tell that our jobs/workloads are so
different that our requests for features in MLO will always be
different.
I will now try to explain my personal reasons for the features I'm
suggesting:
I get over 80% of my projects(and tasks) with a deadline. The tasks
always belong to some bigger project which can't be delayed(they are
but I don't want to be the one delaying).I get new requests without any
notice and all of the tasks need to get done or delegated. Because of
that, I'm looking for a way to quickly review my current commitments
and be able to drop in a new task quickly and have it scheduled(start
time and end time). Hence the timeline and a feature to find a spot for
new task.
Tomas
David Rees
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wowi
>
...
> To do this, a basic requirement is an easy switch of projects between
> different states, e.g. from active to passive (or someday/maybe). And
> in spite of all the nice features of MLO which we all love, this is not
> so easy to do, unfortunately.
>
> I would like to see the effect that passive projects and their tasks
> disappear from the to do list AND from the outline (at least from a
> specific view of the outline). In addition, it should be possible to
> define a date when the project gets active again, both in the outline
> view of active projects and in the todo list.
>
Filtering, depending on its implementation, should allow this. Projects can
be marked using dates, places, or goals all of which can be changed quickly.
Then filtering allows you to prune your outline and todo based both on the
task and its project/parents.
d
wowi
David Rees wrote:
> Filtering, depending on its implementation, should allow this. Projects can
> be marked using dates, places, or goals all of which can be changed quickly.
> Then filtering allows you to prune your outline and todo based both on the
> task and its project/parents.
>
> d
I absolutely agree with you. Filtering would solve a lot of problems
which are currently under discussion (also in some other threads). I'm
looking basically for some support in my review activities (weekly,
monthly, maybe daily review) and for that purpose more filtering
mechanisms for the ouline would be a great help. Lucianio has described
somewhere else his vision about seeing the outline and the todo as two
different views of the underlying task database which can be basically
customised by yourself - I think that is a great idea.
Wolfgang
urlwolf
deadlines:
http://www.sciral.com/consistency/
It looks extremely simple, and feasible. I'll give it a try.
This is similar to the timeline proposed above...
Roger J
Thanks for this, I'm also going to try it out. Please feed back your
impressions, use etc.
I'm still in the trial phase of MLO Pro, about 24 days to go.
After a couple of false starts I found the GTD Zoom (?) template.
While it has some good features and everyday reminder data already in,
and some of it is useful, I have found it makes the the MLO contain too
much data.
I have adopted a modus operandi after reading the forum and thinking
about MLO/GTD etc: (1) I think I will use MLO for the work and personal
project and important things to be done, even if I dump stuff in there
to transfer to 2 or 3; (2) Use Outlook for the hard stuff,
appointments, work sessions to get chunks of pojects done, ONLY put in
Tasks in Outlook that I MUST/Want to get done that day; (3) use Sciral
for routine stuff, maintenance, track exercise and weight reduction
etc.
Yes, I would like eveyrthing in one application and ported to the PPC,
but I will try the above until maybe visual scheduling comes into MLO.
BTW, I also agree with a few others that the needs of MLO individuals
are diverse and not everyone can be accommodated, ever!
Regards,
Roger J